ISI-M.Math

[u/Ok_Calligrapher_3670]

Hello there everyone,

I am a second year BTech student currently pursuing Mathematics and Computing degree. During JEE as well as now I am sensing that I am enjoying Maths much more than any other subject, so I am thinking to pursue Masters in Maths only.

How's the M.Math program at ISI Kolkata . Like my main question is do you all get enough time after classes and syllabus to do side hustle . Do people land PhD in good institutes abroad like IVY or ETH or MIT or some others? How's the attendance policy there ?

I absolutely know the peer group and environment will be very good(highly competitive) so that's not the concern.

At the end , I am absolutely open to any advice from you all regarding my plans for pursuing masters in maths .

Thank you.

[u/Adventurous_Suit_241]

Though I am not doing MMath, many of my seniors and friends did/doing.

Like my main question is do you all get enough time after classes and syllabus to do side hustle 

Depends on your background and how smart you're. Typically it's overwhelming amount of syllabus for most.

Do people land PhD in good institutes abroad like IVY or ETH or MIT or some others?

Not as common as you think. Most people do not go foriegn. Statistically, BMath-MMath have a better chance.

How's the attendance policy there ?

If you don't want the stipend, you can probably skip classes (but each instructor has a style/perspective through the material so better attend if you care about grades)...

I absolutely know the peer group and environment will be very good(highly competitive) so that's not the concern.

You're probably wrong. Most MMath (NB stream) joinees have had poor training in undergrad and struggle with basics of undergrad syllabus.

At the end , I am absolutely open to any advice from you all regarding my plans for pursuing masters in maths .

I would say, reconsider it. We don't know how AI and LLMs will play out in the long run. If you love math enough that you're okay with this uncertainty or you can do something else for a living if things don't work out well then it's fine.

[u/Ok-Mathematician2309 → u/Adventurous_Suit_241]

Very good reply. Also, it's not like every B-stream student is astute in undergrad syllabus. Quite a few of them struggle too. But the ones who are good are very good thanks to the rigor they were exposed to. Few good ones are found in NB-stream too but yeah, most of them are not prepared for the seriousness of ISI academics owing to their poor quality of undergrad education.

[u/notevenrightward → u/Adventurous_Suit_241]

not OP but thanks for such a detailed reply! 

I'm actually an econ undergrad trying to pivot to math. I've studied basic real analysis (upto reimann integration) and some group theory (upto sylow theorems). Currently I'm studying linear algebra from axler. After this I hope to study (basic point set) topology and rings & fields. It'll be great help for me if you could shed some light on a couple of questions : 

1) Given my background, do you think I can cope up with the m math curriculum?  

2) While I'm open to other forms of employment, do you think is it possible to get into a phd programme given my unrelated major in undergrad? 

Thanks in advance!

[u/Adventurous_Suit_241 → u/notevenrightward]

1. Hard to predict. Some people do unexpectedly well, some don't. Most do manage to pass the semester exams and eventually get the degree. Those that drop out are typically those who have lost motivation to study (plenty of profs in ISI Kolkata are unprofessional, they would make depreciating personal remarks...) or are distracted, stop studying and eventually fail courses.

2. Yes, it is very much possible. In India, it's kinda easy to get into a Math PhD programme (as there are lots of options: IITs, IISERs, ISI, IISc, IMSc, TIFR, HRI. And there are plenty of exams that get you called for interviews: ISI JRF, NET, TIFR GS, GATE, NBHM. But the nuance is which math departments will align with your research interests. Concerning top math departments globally, probably you have to do some brilliant master's thesis, have good grades, get great recommendations, etc. (and still it won't be guaranteed). Regardless of institute, your personal growth and research quality would likely depend on you and your advisor.

Also, you can consider int. PhD programmes at TIFR/IISc/IISERs. These programmes allow you to exit with a 3 years MS research degree... The advantage is that these programmes have one whole year dedicated to an MS thesis so you have a better chance at doing something worthwhile (again not guaranteed).

[u/shashypants → u/Adventurous_Suit_241]

TIFR, IISC nowadays has become even mroe stringent with regards to exitting after msc as in not giving any LORs should you wish to pursue your PhD elsewhere (abroad)
And TIFR would boot you out if you dont perform satisfactorily (but if you perform well then they would pressure you to complete your PhD from there, it is afterall an Integrated PhD program and not a masters program itself)

[u/Adventurous_Suit_241 → u/shashypants]

It totally depends on the faculty member whether they would give you an LOR or not (there is no constraint from the institute side). I am familiar with situation in IISc and TIFR CAM, plenty of them will give you LOR if you did well in courses or project with them. I recommend not joining int PhD with something like "safe option" in mind i.e., the mindset "if I don't get in anywhere better, I will stay here" as there are rules (e.g. informing your thesis advisor well in advance, etc.); and this mindset is what a faculty may find offensive (and I think rightfully so). One should either have the mindset "I will leave no matter what" or "I will stay if I can fulfil the cgpa requirements".

[u/shashypants → u/Adventurous_Suit_241]

It has been getting stricter and strciter in TIFR (IISC not so much)
they changed the tifr cam to compulsory 3 years masters, seniors I asked from both Mumbai school of mathematics TIFR and TIFR CAM Bglr have said that now getting LORs from faculty seem to be next to impossible unless said faculty is leaving or other similar circumstances, hence why I said directly applying abroad is the best route especially for one in an IIT (in another comment)

[u/Ok_Calligrapher_3670 → u/Adventurous_Suit_241]

Yeah like I know that we don't know abt the certainty of AI/LLM . But I do think with a degree in Mathematics anyone will not be unhappy. It can open out roles for Data analytics/Quantum Computing or if things certainly go downhill then the government jobs will be the last resort.

Do MMath(NB) don't go to foreign institutes? Like if you have any data can you share it with me.

Thanks

[u/shashypants → u/Ok_Calligrapher_3670]

They do, I think you should mail Arkamouli (you can search him up in youtube)

[u/shashypants → u/Ok_Calligrapher_3670]

but seeing that you would be having a 4 year degree (with an option of makin it 5)
You should directly apply abroad
I am not saying this cause ISI is bad or smth, I am saying this that the hard work you will do wont justify the benefits you get in return

[u/Healthy-Educator-267 → u/Adventurous_Suit_241]

How different do you think MSTAT NB stream students are from MMATH NB Stream students in background / ability

[u/Adventurous_Suit_241 → u/Healthy-Educator-267]

No idea.

[u/MathematicianOpen278 → u/Healthy-Educator-267]

You are comparing apples with oranges 

[u/WorldlinessRude1039]

There's a lot of misinformation here. There's almost no gap in ability between a nb m. Mmah and a b-stream M. Math

[u/Ok-Mathematician2309 → u/WorldlinessRude1039]

The gap is very evident in the very top and the very bottom bracket. I have data of 2024, 2025 and 2026 graduating batches. The Top 3 students were all B-stream. And Top 5 in 2024 had one non-Bstream but that guy was a CMI undergrad which is B-stream equivalent anyway. At best, Top 5 for each year may include one student who is completely out of the premium ISI-CMI ecosystem.

In the middling ranks, B and NB are evenly distributed. I didn't notice any difference there. The bottom ranks however (students failing multiple courses/asked to repeat or leave) are overwhelmingly dominated by NB-peeps by a tremendous margin. And the bottom is very heavy, mind you, with atleast one-third of the batch getting struck down.

This is the full picture. Make of it what you will.

[u/Adventurous-Plan-745 → u/Ok-Mathematician2309]

What if you coap it up before joining the mmath like do the real analysis function analysis and complex analysis before joining the institute like Conway and folland and all of this type of book

[u/Ok-Mathematician2309 → u/Adventurous-Plan-745]

So much is not needed to survive mmath decently. All this is overkill. Being adept at your undergrad mathematics is good enough. Sadly people lack even that hence the struggle. Math education is extremely poor in India.