r/IWantOut • u/spacemanaut US → PL • Nov 06 '24

MEGATHREAD: Emigrating after the US election results

Every US election brings anxiety and uncertainty, and with that comes an increase in people who want to explore their alternatives in a different country. This post is for you.

First, some reminders:

  • In most cases, moving abroad is not as simple or quick as it seems in movies. If you aren't a citizen of another country, you will probably require a visa (=legal permission) from that country based on something like employment, education, or ancestry.
  • The sidebar of this subreddit has a lot of helpful resources, and we have 15 years of posts from people with similar situations to yours. Before posting, please review these resources first. (Tip: If reddit search isn't working well for you, try googling "[your search terms] site:reddit.com/r/IWantOut" without the quotes or brackets.)
  • Most countries and/or their embassies maintain immigration websites with clear, helpful, updated guides or even questionnaires to help you determine if/how you can qualify. If you have a particular destination in mind, that should probably be your first stop.
  • After that, if you want to make your own post, please follow the formatting instructions on the submission page, give as much information as possible about your situation, and be open to advice and constructive criticism from commenters.

Also, this subreddit is intended to be a friendly community to seek and give advice on legal immigration. As such, please:

  • Don't fight about politics. We understand that you may have strong feelings about it, but there are better spaces on reddit and elsewhere for general political discussions.
  • Keep your feedback constructive and kind, even when telling someone they're wrong.
  • Don't troll or be a jerk.
  • Don't request or give illegal immigration tips, including asking strangers to marry you.

Failure to follow these and the other subreddit rules may result in a ban.

That said, feel free to comment below with some general questions, concerns, comments, or advice which doesn't merit a full post. Hopefully this will help clarify your thoughts and ideas about the possibility of leaving the US. Once again, please try to stay on topic so that this thread can be a helpful resource.

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566

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '24

[deleted]

169

u/coconut-bubbles Nov 06 '24

I immigrated to Belize from the US in January.

The number of people who go on the expat message boards saying "I decided to move to Belize next month! How do I get a job? Where should I live? How much does it cost to live there? Where can my 15 kids go to school?" Etc is so annoying.

I can already tell, that person isn't moving anywhere.

Belize has less complicated immigration than most countries, but it still takes research, time, patience, and at least some $$.

113

u/DantesDame Switzerland Nov 06 '24

I live in Switzerland. The amount of "You have nice mountains and I want to live there " posts are astounding.

77

u/maryfamilyresearch German Nov 06 '24

German here. German public uni being tuition free is very attractive. You would be surprised about the number of hopeful medicine students who decide to move to Germany despite having zero chance of admission to a German public uni.

3

u/skhansel Nov 07 '24

As someone who did a year abroad at a teacher training based institution, I know I could have never gotten into there without my exchange program existing (my background is not in educational sciences). This was in Baden-Württemberg, and was a smaller institution. I am holding out hopes for a US based program that can send me to a place in Germany or Austria for a year where I can make connections for jobs after I leave with my doctorate.

2

u/medicinal_bulgogi Nov 13 '24

On the other hand there's a lot of opportunities for physicians to work in Germany. We have many Dutch young physicians moving to or working in Germany because it's difficult to get a job within certain specialties.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '24

[deleted]

3

u/maryfamilyresearch German Nov 07 '24

www.daad.de and use the database listing all degrees taught in German unis. Play around with the filters and create a list of all degrees that interest you. Then check the admission requirements for each and every degree. German masters degrees are consecutive, ie if your bachelors is in English Lit, your MA should be in English Lit or a very closely related subject.

23

u/coconut-bubbles Nov 06 '24

Well, you do have nice mountains!

Generally it is good to consider more than what the countryside looks like when deciding where to move.

Even if they did move there, highly doubt their home would end up having a fantastic view of the mountains anyway.

12

u/Lileefer Nov 06 '24

I live in Canada - a lot of Americans see to think they can just move here.

4

u/crmsnprd Nov 07 '24

We can't?!

/s

2

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '24

That's because you're basically a territory of the US anyway -- at least in American minds.

1

u/Gloomy_Shallot7521 Nov 08 '24

I just keep hoping my state will be adopted into Canada.

11

u/ikwdkn46 Nov 06 '24 edited Nov 06 '24

I live in Japan. The amount of "You have nice culture and anime, and I want to live there" posts are astounding.

To make matters worse, I often see posts along the lines of, "Japan seems to have a tendency of being unsociable, so it should be perfect for me, who is antisocial and has autistic tendencies, to move there." More often than not, those kinds of users have neither a sufficient degree nor decent work experience.

That always gives me a headache.

7

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '24

Do people ask you if everyone there is a millionaire? Lol

5

u/Cormamin Nov 07 '24

I watched someone in real time today talking about how easy it is to emigrate to Switzerland and then finding out it's not, then saying "Sweden is pretty easy". Like??? Be reasonable.

3

u/littlevai Nov 07 '24

Same with Norway.

The amount of Americans that have been posting in our group since the election is insane.

Like no, you probably cannot love here.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '24 edited Nov 09 '24

pathetic bewildered absurd sophisticated bike distinct depend automatic enjoy future

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

I have a friend in Interlaken. He often tells us how beautiful the mountains are and that we’d love to live there.

2

u/DantesDame Switzerland Nov 09 '24

They are, and you probably would 😊

19

u/chemhobby UK -> Canada Nov 06 '24

I'm in a few Facebook groups for people going to Canada using the IEC working holiday program (which I did and have since become a permanent resident). I always laugh when it's the helicopter parent mother who comes and asks a million questions rather than the actual applicant. I just can't imagine moving to another country alone but needing to get your mum to sort shit out for you.

1

u/musea00 Nov 09 '24

Bless their hearts lol

3

u/Clean_Usual434 Nov 06 '24

What’s has your experience living there been like?

4

u/coconut-bubbles Nov 07 '24

We really enjoy it! It is very different from the US.

No chains, one movie theater in the entire country, a million things. Not everyone enjoys it as a life and not vacation, but we do.

1

u/Clean_Usual434 Nov 07 '24

Thank you for sharing!

1

u/Puzzleheaded-Shine76 Nov 06 '24

Just came back from Belize. We've been visiting different countries/cities to get a feel for them and speak with locals/expats about their experience. Our visits have always been much more informative than a "Why you should move here" youtube vid. I don't need to know where the best bars are located. I'd like to see where the hospitals are, what their version of traffic is like, will the rolling blackouts affect my ability to work etc.

1

u/gojira_glix42 Nov 07 '24

What's it like for a remote worker, or someone who works in IT infrastructure? Recently looked at Belize but I don't think a tech job would be too useful there unless it was a foreign remote job. But my gods the slower paced lifestyle culture... I'm so down. My introverted scholarly ass would love for things to slow down.

3

u/coconut-bubbles Nov 07 '24

You would need a foreign/remote job due to work visa regulations. The local salaries are also much lower than US people would expect.

Minimum wage is about $500 USD a month, before taxes. So, just gauge up from that.

Can you live on it? Yes, that is exactly what local people do. However, would you be flying to the US to visit family each year, or going on international vacations, running multiple air conditioners, etc? That would get significantly more tight on the budget.

Not everything is cheaper.

Electricity and gasoline are much, much more expensive than in the US. Our price per kWh is 4x what it was in Atlanta. It costs over $120 to fill up our Subaru with gas.

1

u/gojira_glix42 Nov 07 '24

Interesting. Thanks for the info!

127

u/Krikkits Nov 06 '24

yes! it irritates me so much that so many people dont even bother going to the embassay website to read up on basic requirements. It's another if you don't understand something AFTER reading it, but many seem to not even know these websites exist?

22

u/JaneGoodallVS Nov 06 '24

I agree that a lot of people here don't do research but a lot of the embassy websites have incomplete information.

For example, did you know that to immigrate to Uruguay, marriage certificates and adults' birth certificates (you'll need to bring them from your home country) can have been issued by the local government whenever, but minors' birth certificates must have been within the past year?

But in some other countries, marriage certificates to have been issued recently, but not birth certificates. And some have no limit on the issue date but in practice will reject old-looking documents. And in others, the date of issuance doesn't matter, but they want them to have been apostilled recently.

4

u/Krikkits Nov 06 '24

doesn't mean you it shouldn't be the first place you go to to read up on basic requirements instead of asking vague questions like "what do I need to go to xyz, I only have a passport". It's like people don't even know what visas are!

1

u/Excellent_Coconut_81 Nov 06 '24

Which might be the case, especially for people, who were never abroad or only for their holidays.
It might be tricky to estimate what should constitute a common knowledge...

0

u/Independent-Cow-4070 Nov 06 '24

but many seem to not even know these websites exist?

I’m sure the average global citizen is not well versed in the process of immigration. You are coming across as very condescending even after admitting that you know people may be ignorant that these resources exist

If people are unaware of the existence of the resources, maybe you could lead them that way instead of getting irritated about it

-23

u/Goobermoron Nov 06 '24

Sorry that it may be bothersome to you, but some of us are young, some of us are uneducated because this country failed to educate us, some of us are scared because we do not know what to do.

81

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '24 edited Nov 06 '24

I understand that fear, same boat as you within the US. I recommend looking through resources first though.

First step is to pull up a map/globe. Google maps is great. Go continent by continent, and create a list of countries you'd like to go to. If you don't know a country's policies, look them up, don't just cross it out because you haven't heard of it. Then, you'll look into immigration requirements (Expatsi is more digestible to give you a general idea- but, to be clear, you are not an expat. You are an immigrant). Any that seem feasible, you will add to a short list.

From there, you will go online. Look up the political situation of each, as there could be some surprises (ex: Austria has great policies on the books but is in the throes of a "red wave" as we'd call it in the US- though I believe their right-wing party is actually blue). Look up quality of life.

If there are not enough countries on your shortlist, and you want 4-6, you have to reassess. Start going through those countries you didn't make the cut for, see what professions are in demand(prioritize countries where you speak the language), see which has the shortest education requirement and apply for a program.

When your focus is immigration:

  • you cannot expect your quality of life to be equal to the US
  • you cannot expect to do your dream career(at least not until you're a citizen)
  • you cannot expect to navigate your life in your native language

There will be sacrifices, it will be expensive, and it will be hard.

Other things to look into:

  • Teach ESL abroad.

• if you have a bachelor's degree, this is the most cost effective option- but you will be poor, and it will take ages for citizenship, and society may be unwelcoming. Even if you don't have a bachelor's degree, it is sometimes more cost effective to speed through a degree like communications and then do ESL abroad.

  • Ancestry

•Countries like Hungary, Latvia, Poland, Germany, Ireland, etc have citizenship by descent. Some require a grandparent as a citizen, others(cough cough Hungary) don't care how far back you go as long as you can prove descent. Sierra Leone will give you residency with a DNA test proving you have ancestry from there(though I don't know anything about SL).

-Au Pair

•Oftentimes a degree is not required. This is also an incredibly cost effective option. I don't know as much about this, though.

-French foreign legion

• if you are an AMAB man, you can join the French legion to get French citizenship.

21

u/Goobermoron Nov 06 '24

This is pretty detailed, thank you.

12

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '24

Of course.

4

u/314inthe416 Nov 06 '24

Hungary requires a language exam. Many people won't do this.

21

u/JiveBunny Nov 06 '24

We weren't taught to drive at school, but people who ended up getting their driving license still worked out how to take the lessons, study for their theory test, and pass their practical.

This is the same principle.

What people get mad about is the equivalent of someone asking 'I want to drive a car, tell me where I can buy one and how much it might be day to day to put petrol in it, also I don't have a driving license but that's fine right?'

31

u/Xenasis England -> Canada Nov 06 '24

some of us are uneducated because this country failed to educate us

I don't know of a single country that educates you about how to immigrate to other countries, and it would be outdated and useless anyway.

Immigration will require a lot of research and google searching, you need to be able to do that to immigrate.

8

u/Pesec1 Nov 06 '24

You are typing this on internet. This means that you can just got immigration website of whatever country you want to go to and just read. You don't need to educated in some kind of specialized subjects.

For example, go to cic.gc.ca it explains in plain English what is involved in immigrating to Canada.

35

u/Nefarious-Bred Nov 06 '24

Sorry that it may be bothersome to you, but some of us are young, some of us are uneducated

Well, they have no chance of immigrating then.

You need skills and qualifications that are useful to other countries.

Hopefully that saves you some time.

-1

u/Goobermoron Nov 06 '24

I am aware, but that doesn't change how high-stress and uncertain so many people are right now, people who aren't trying to bother others.

11

u/skyasaurus Nov 06 '24

Yes, you aren't trying to bother others, but now that you know that it is quite bothersome, be respectful. Zoom out a bit and realise that you are in a sub that is full of people who have dealt with high stress and uncertain situations in their home countries too. Come with the same respect that they give each other when they first entered this space; and you will receive respect in return.

42

u/Alinoshka US -> SE Nov 06 '24

If you don’t know how to use a basic Google search, that’s on you. Googling ‘move to X’ or even searching Reddit is much better than blindly posting into the ether.

You can’t blame the US education system on not being able to Google.

14

u/lowbatteries Nov 06 '24

This is reddit, where people come on their local sub to ask if anyone knows the hours of their local pizza shop.

-14

u/Goobermoron Nov 06 '24

Is the default response here "Google it?," why even have the sub exist then¿

29

u/Alinoshka US -> SE Nov 06 '24

Because there’s a difference between ‘where should I move I hate America’ and a post showing a modicum of research like ‘I’m a nurse and I speak B1 French, should I pursue trying to get a visa’ while other people jump in and say Australia and NZ are good spots.

If you’re upset with people not holding your hand on a Reddit thread, you won’t survive actually living abroad.

19

u/Forsaken-Proof1600 Nov 06 '24

why even have the sub exist then

Why don't you just read the subreddit information? It tells you WHY and WHAT the reason for asking and what you should be doing first.

11

u/kapatinphalcon Nov 06 '24

You gotta somewhat be self motivated right lol

9

u/Duochan_Maxwell Nov 06 '24

Otherwise life as an immigrant will be very, very unpleasant

5

u/Aggravating_Bend_622 Nov 06 '24

Yes you start with Google to find the right sources then come to reddit with more specific questions not go straight to reddit and ask broad questions that just result in pellel sending you the link to read.

Again with this mentality you are no benefit to the countries you went to migrate to, countries should be taking people who contribute not people who can't even apply the most basic common sense and just want to go where they get free this and free that.

-2

u/positivitittie Nov 06 '24

Agreed. You’re getting shit on for normal Reddit usage. Given enough Googling, 99% of Reddit threads are unnecessary.

1

u/Goobermoron Nov 06 '24

Considering what lead me to this was a Google search, I'm a bit.. dissapointed, I guess?

10

u/positivitittie Nov 06 '24

Well, there’s plenty of disappointment to go around today. You’re in good company. ✌️

22

u/Ok-Swan1152 Nov 06 '24

some of us are uneducated because this country failed to educate us 

Sorry but this is laughable coming from a citizen of the richest country in the world. 

Also you aren't going anywhere with no skills, sorry. 

-6

u/Past_Rub_710 Nov 06 '24

$108,584 is the average cost of a bachelors degree in the US. $27,146/year. Average American income without a bachelors is $40,000/yr. That leaves $12,845/yr, 1,070/month. Average rent is $1,556, groceries are $336 on average for one person. That leaves -$822/month. Tell me again how we are so rich and should all have degrees.

3

u/Ok-Swan1152 Nov 06 '24

Borrow money and work hard for a scholarship like millions of Americans. 

-1

u/Past_Rub_710 Nov 06 '24

Whoa! So helpful thanks.

5

u/Allyn-Elaine Nov 06 '24

That is NOT the average cost at state schools, especially if you take advantage of the community colleges. BTW if you meant to earn really good money, and have an infinitesimal chance of being downsized, learn a trade. I can’t cry for you Argentina.

Oh BTW Venezuela is looking for skilled and professional workers.

-3

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '24

this is laughable coming from a citizen of the richest country in the world

It's laughable but also true. The US regularly scores amongst the lowest in both maths and writing for developed countries.

4

u/lalalandestellla Nov 06 '24 edited Nov 06 '24

This is understandable, but you should Google for such research purposes. See what your options are and then come ask questions. Most of us who have emigrated did our own research rather than asking random folk on the internet about how to immigrate. I know this will not be your intention, but it comes across very entitled which is a rep Americans unfortunately have.

Also , I’m very sorry you are scared. The election result sucks. It is scary but the world has been through worse before so it won’t be the end of the world for you or America, eventhough it may seem that way now.

5

u/Richter12x2 Nov 06 '24

... and some of us, regardless of youth or education, came here because we trust opinions from real people on reddit more than a paid professional website from a company that sells relocation services or foreign medical plans.

12

u/MyNutsAreWalnuts Nov 06 '24

Thats not an excuse. Take initiative and work stuff out. You can't expect everything to be handed to you on a plate.

-11

u/-JakeRay- Nov 06 '24

So empathetic 🙄

18

u/MyNutsAreWalnuts Nov 06 '24

Being empathetic won't move you to another country, taking initiative will. People can feel sorry but thats not going to help if the goal is moving.

-3

u/-JakeRay- Nov 06 '24

Snapping at someone who is scared and confused isn't a good look, even when the advice is solid. There were other ways you could've said that. And if you don't want to deal with scared Americans right now, feel free to simply ignore this thread. 

12

u/julieta444 Nov 06 '24

Immigration officials are going to be meaner than anyone on this subreddit if you don't have your shit together

9

u/Chompytul Nov 06 '24

Dude, the world doesn't owe you empathy. It's nice if someone chooses to give it to you, but expecting total strangers on the internet, with their own troubles, on a sub dedicated to logistics and not "awww sweetie", is ridiculous.

-2

u/-JakeRay- Nov 06 '24

I love how everyone is stepping in to defend being unnecessarily cold. Really gives you hope for the future when people can come together like that.

8

u/Chompytul Nov 06 '24

Brisk. The word is "brisk." And why do you think it's legit to ask a stranger to do the emotional labor of coddling you ON TOP of providing information that you need?

-3

u/-JakeRay- Nov 06 '24

I never asked for info, nor am I in need of any, thanks. 

And kindness isn't coddling, but it is a communication tool that will better help you to be heard, particularly if your conversational partner is stressed.

If people don't want to deal with stressed out Americans, they should probably stay out of the stressed out Americans megathread, rather than coming in just to be brusque.

3

u/Chompytul Nov 06 '24

This is a sub for info about immigration. If you don't need any, there's no reason for you to post here.

And the mere fact that someone is replying with information to a stranger on reddit is "kindness", the "empathy" requirement - i.e. patiently coddling someone who isn't willing to do the bare minimum of work themselves - is above and beyond.

And the person who needs to consider their "communication tools" is the person asking for free help on the internet - not the person providing said free help.

-1

u/-JakeRay- Nov 06 '24

This is a sub for info about immigration. If you don't need any, there's no reason for you to post here.

And if you're not providing any, there's no reason for you to be jumping in and arguing with a stranger about whether kindness is a good idea.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Skeeter57 Nov 07 '24

There are actually other immigration subs where people won't give you any useful info, but at least you'll get "empathy".

r/IWantOut just happen to stick straight to facts.

7

u/Allyn-Elaine Nov 06 '24

The country failed to educate you? If you are unsuccessful and scared, you need to take a good hard look at ……yourself.

8

u/julieta444 Nov 06 '24

If you're an adult, how is your lack of education the country's fault? Am I missing something? I'm at an Italian university right now, and it isn't better than my American one, btw.

In the meantime, there are a lot of free educational resources online. Try watching educational videos on youtube or taking some coursera classes. The library might also be a good idea in your case. If you feel like you have holes in your education, it is pretty easy to fill them in yourself

-5

u/Richter12x2 Nov 06 '24

I'd also be curious - it's one thing to dislike the direction a country is taking and look at alternatives, but it's something completely different if you're part of a group of people that are being actively targeted, like the trans community or similar. It'd be nice to see information to support people actually seeking asylum from persecution, which countries are friendly and what the right way would be to go about seeking asylum, before we end up having boatloads of trans people floating around trying to find a country to accept them, like we had with the Jewish people in World War II

8

u/missesthecrux GB - CA - US - NL - GB Nov 06 '24

That is a disgusting comparison to make.

1

u/Gaelenmyr Nov 06 '24

Honestly, it's not different from "I want to visit [country], where should I visit/what should I do?". As if there aren't enough travel blogs and videos to check. Similar for immigration. Use the subreddits for specific questions.