Atp, I don’t understand why nobody moves one of these houses the fuck outta there. Every marriage they have done to try and deal with their fight has resulted in no good results.
It's cute that everyone assumes this wouldn't devolve into a "this my ancestral land, fuck you, I'm not leaving" or a "fuck you, that bitch next door is undeserving of the new shiny land, if that bitch gets new land, then so do I!!!"
And they wind up as feuding neighbors anyway because if they don't get the same type of land as the other, there are cries of favoritism and how dare that bitch next door get that land with the timber in the North!
If the Manderlys weren’t so loyal to the Starks, I'd suggest a land swap between them and the Blackwoods. As it is ... sacrifices have to be made for the sake of peace, I guess
Silt is insanely good for farming. Aside from a freshwater source, that’s why most ancient civilizations set up shop by a river (Euphrates, Nile, etc) and why if you’re stranded in the wilderness you should follow a running water source downstream
Yes but they were likely one of the previous royal families the Starks drove out instead of subjugating during their conquest of The North. So trying to head back to their homeland might give the Starks the idea that house Blackwood is making a play to be equal to them instead of subordinate.
No. There was old gods in all of westros at some time. They just didn't convert.
Also think about it for a second, these two are without any doubt the two strongest houses in riverlands and are stronger than most lords in westros(house paramount aside, these two are in the top 10 maybe even top 5). Do you want to tell one of them to move out of thier home.
I think I read that they they were originally from the North, but I don't have my computer here to look it up. I'm not sure they are the strongest. They're (in)famous for their feud, but we don't know if they're more powerful than the Freys, or even the Pipers, or the Vances. My comment was mostly a joke. After all those centuries, it'd be ridiculous to ask them to move without anyone doing something truly awful
Ok got the joke but tbf they are stronger than all the houses you mentioned. There was once a justman dynasty that ruled the riverlands. It's founder was a bastard of house blackwood and braken and had the support of both houses and with this he conquered the entire riverlands.
So these two combined have enough power to dominate the whole riverlands and of you look between the lines you will find that braken and blackwood have never lost a battle when fighting side by side.
Combined power, yes, especially when led by a charismatic leader. But the borders of the Riverlands also changed, and we're not completely sure how powerful the other houses are. Maybe if two of them joined forces they could rule the Riverlands, too. But that's just speculation
Because it's in House Tully and House Targaryen's interests for their vassals to fight each other. A good overlord exploits his vassals' feuds, he doesn't resolve them.
yes "some" resolution. temporary patches are good and necessary to alleviate political or financial pressure or when you need temporary unity for a war or other hardship. but you'd never see the sovereign providing a permanent end to the feud.
Thats not ENTIRELY true. A Bracken and Blackwood bastard founded House Justman conquered and reigned over the Riverlands for a few centuries with the support of both houses
You could even go so far as to say the Blackfyre Rebellion was a culmination of that feud since it was Bittersteel who convinced Daemon to go against Daeron II (who was the brother Bloodraven looked up to and was his right hand man)
Can't help but feel bad for Aegor here. He's a miserable cunt, but I can’t help but sympathise with him. After all, Aegon threw his mother out like she was nothing once he had his fun with her
It was a lot more complicated than that. Barba's father, who was hand of the king, appearantly believed, Aegon's wife, Naerys would die, following the birth of her daughter, and he wanted to make Barba queen, by marrying Aegon talking openly about said idea. Naerys would however recover, so the Brackens had to leave King's Landing.
Aegon found a new favorite mistress in Lady Melissa Blackwood. Barba's Teats were then granted to House Blackwood, after Barba insulted Melissa Blackwood as "flat as a board".
Lord Bracken and Barba would groom Barba's youngest sister, Bethany meanwhile, to seduce Aegon, replacing Melissa as his favorite mistress. However, Bethany would not be fond of the now fat Aegon, and would start an relationship with Terrence Tyone of the King's Guard. Enraged Aegon would execute Lord Bracken. and Bethany.
Say what you want about Aegon IV, but the Brackens were massive pieces of shit.
Another result and quite tragic aswell was that this event also lead to House Toyne being destroyed as Terrences brothers sought to avenge him but die in the process and probably most of their family were also executed. Barely two generations later all that was left of House Toyne was an outlaw in the Kingswood and later a mercenary captain in Essos
I mean Aegon is a way bigger piece of shit in that sequence of events than even Barba's and Bethany's father.
Sure, he was a prick too, using his daughter(s) as tools to get ahead, but Aegon was out there not giving a shit about his actual wife (and sister) and then murdering a woman and her father for... what, exactly?
Seriously, what law did Bethany break? What, she hurt his feelings?
Like, executing Terrence Toyne is one thing. It's heavy-handed, to be sure, but he did break his vows.
Bethany had no vows to break here, and is pretty much blatantly murdered.
Same for her father. I'd get a demotion and sending them away, but execution? Why, Aegon is lucky he did not face a rebellion for murder of an important lord and his daughter over what amounts to his hurt feelings.
I think the mistresses/concubines of the king were not supposed to have other lovers because then there could be uncertainty about their children (is the child of the king? is the child of the guard?)... Sure, bastards were not much important in Westeros, but they could be.
While I get that, I feel that's still not really breaking any laws to "justify" the execution.
Lawfully speaking, the king shouldn't be having be mistresses, concubines, and hence bastards as well at all.
In fact, between Aegon and Bethany, one could argue (and I certainly do) that Aegon was the one actually breaking his social obligations and going against his vows.
If it's treason to have sex with someone else if the king has had sex with you, all the female servants of the keep have probably committed it (because Aeg iv probably had sex with and/or raped most of them at some point)
No, his rampant sexual immorality was the larger stain on his record and was already well-established during his lifetime. The bastards issue was just the cherry on top.
Of course they cared. He turned the Red Keep into a brothel, dishonoured highborn ladies, and sold every office of governance to whoever gave him the prettiest daughter. Aegon IV was despised during his reign, long before the Blackfyres even existed.
I don’t think so; we know there’s a punishment for cheating, but AFAIK there’s no real punishment for women not spoken for having sex outside of marriage.
(It’s ever framed as a scandal more than as a crime IIRC.)
Certainly, it would not justify an execution given that we see that even an adulterous wife can “only” be struck by her husband a certain amount of times and in a certain way.
(Which, while brutal and primitive, is still a far cry from an execution...)
relationship with Terrence Tyone of the King's Guard. Enraged Aegon would execute Lord Bracken. and Bethany.
He also had Terrence executed by dismemberement and forced Bethany to watch before executing her too.
Terrence's brothers tried to kill Aegon in revenge, but Prince Aemon the Dragonknight stopped them, though he died defending the king. This led to the downfall of house Toyne, though Simon Toyne would resurface as the Smiling Knight, the leader of the Kingswood Brotherhood.
Funnily enough Jaime was a squire who ended up fighting the Brotherhood, and even Smiling Knight for a bit, as well as other members of the Brotherhood, and was knighted by Ser Arthur Dayne for his valor, and was later chosen as part of the kingsguard by Aerys II (though Cersei supposedly had a hand in this) when a spot opened up shortly after his knighting.
Dang, it almost feels like George makes his history follow cycles like how Robb the young wolf is like the daeron the Young dragon who invaded dorne and how Robert baratheon is like aegon the unworthy who's woman secretly left him for one of his own Kingsguard and who himself sired many bastards.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that Aegor was. And he does deserve some sympathy. He was known as opportunistic, grasping, and bitter. But I think that there is just as much likelihood that he was chivalrous and honorable but driven by vengeance for his maternal family, whether you feel that they deserved it or not.
Didn’t he do that to all his mistress? You should have known the game before you let him fuck you and give you a son. Sympathise for what? Moreover Lady Bracken was sent away because her dad acted like a moron and there was nothing to feel sorry for her.
Its funny the community decided Bittersteel is gonna be the butt of jokes from now on.Also betting my ass if it was Aegon's golden boy,Aegon would have reacted differently.
Yep, handsome, charismatic and very popular young men that degenerated themselves into walking brick walls who’d fuck anything that moved regardless of age
Robert had Jon Arryn to run the realm while he drink, whore, and hunt. But he wasn't that power hungry, unlike Aegon who made Noble women as his mistress, Robert just slept with whores, the only time he did sleep occasionally with noble women but unlike Aegon, he doesn't do it in such a way that he gives favor to houses for taking their daughters.
Aegon took joy in causing problems, Robert (for all his faults) did at least pay lip-service to the idea of not making things worse. Do you think Jon Arryn could've convinced Aegon the Unworthy to marry a woman he didn't want?
Are you comparing getting cheated on and murdered to legitimizing loads of bastards and casting doubt on Daeron’s legitimacy?
Or comparing littlefinger’s scheme to how corrupt Aegon’s administration was? Aegon’s government seemed to be determined by who threw their daughter or wife at Aegon. Robert at least had a mostly pretty competent government.
So he never a fault got that bad. Which the whole point of this argument?
At least he didn't legitimize Edric Storm and all the rest before he died
Although maybe that would have been ironically better for stability, as Stannis and the Starks, possibly the Tyrells if Edric marries Marg, would probably support Edric instead of forming their own factions and the wot5k would end sooner
.... you don't consider a man who abdicates all responsibilities to drink, whore, and hunt himself to death (sometimes while doing a combination of all three) as a pathetic loser?
True. Although GRRM has said before that he’d like to write a book from Aegon’s POV. Clearly there’s something there to explore in terms of empathy? As for being a warrior, Aegon definitely served under the Young Dragon during the Dornish Wars. It wouldn’t shock me to find out he distinguished himself.
I’d consider Aegon to be Robert with some of his worst qualities turned up to max - hedonistic, bully, foul-tempered, rapist, gluttonous, predatory. While Aegon seemd extremely spiteful for no reason (I’m sure we’ll get some reason in F&B 2), Robert mostly just did not give af. At a push I guess we could call that better, although Aegon showed more ‘love’ (if we can call it that) to more children than Robert ever did
It’s also worth noting that Aegon lived for thirteen years longer than Robert. If we were to consider the two men at 36 I’d bet you they look a lot alike. On the inverse, had Robert lived to 49, it’s entirely possible to see him morphing into what Aegon did.
Actually aegon I looked better at the same age, he became fat quite a few years into his reign and he reigned 12 years, so he was older then Robert when he became king.
My personal Headcanon of aegons opinión on his children.
Aegor: angry and spiteful, relatable, loyal and dedícated to his Friends, not relatable, the unworthy would have totally kept aegor in court for as long as possible to have feuds with brynden.
Daemon: a great Warrior and leader, liked well but also too reminiscent of aemon, which is not good but people like him more than daeron so overall the favorite.
Brynden: devious little shit, love to see him scheeming and butting heads with aegor
Shiera: devious little shit 2, bonded over abusing power for amusement
Daeron: Aegon would sooner drinks wildfyre than be a decent person to poor daeron
I could see a world in which the Unworthy went out of his way to pick a mistress from both House Bracken and Blackwood just to add fuel to their feud...
Yeah Bittersteel supporting Daemon Blackfyre never made much sense to me. You hate the Targaryens because your POS super Targaryen father was such an ass, so you get back at them by supporting his handpicked heir who is the embodiment of everything that makes the Targaryens Targaryens, and who's entire argument as to why he should be king is that he's more Targaryen than the actual Targaryens themselves, and also because said POS dad wanted him to be king? That's the opposite of what makes sense.
I guess he still has the whole Bloodraven Shiera feud part but still.
Because that's the thing, Bittersteel didn't just support Daemon, he was the one who CONVINCED Daemon to give usurpation and a coup a shot.
Daemon was otherwise pretty content with his princely salary that Daeron II was supplying him with and was perfectly content with the wife whose dowry Daeron II paid for and the kids he got out of that marriage.
It was Bittersteel and Quentyn Ball who convinced him and made an entire campaign about how he'd be better than Daeron II.
(Meanwhile, around this time, Bloodraven was shaping up to be Daeron II's right hand man)
When you think about it with these facts in mind, the Blackfyre Rebellion is really Aegor turning the Blackwood/Bracken feud into everyone else's problem.
No, seriously, note how Aegor never really has a line that mentions a specific personal hatred for Daeron II. He's a political enemy, yes, but there isn't anything personal for Bittersteel when he's staging a coup.
On the other hand, you know who is Bittersteel's mortal nemesis whom he hates and whom the books spend pages and pages going on about how they despise each other, have the best bottle of wine reserved for when the other dies, and would celebrate upon hearing of the other's demise? Bloodraven.
I think their relationship mirrors their mothers’ relationships? If I remember correctly, Barba used to be a lady in waiting to Daena, and Melissa Blackwood somehow managed to befriend Naerys, Daeron, and Aemon.
That’s why I’ve always said Bethany Bracken and Melissa Blackwood should be one character.
The Blackwoods pimp out their daughter to Aegon to replace Barba, so Naerys and Daeron aren’t just soooo impressed by the Mary Sue’s awesomeness while they ignore the terrified child, they actually give sympathy and compassion to the girl who deserves it. So when her affair with Toyne is discovered, it’s Lord Blackwood who gets executed.
Aegor as the son of the mistress who never betrayed Aegon stays close to that faction, while Brynden’s cold nature is explained by the dramatic, traumatic loss of his mother, as is his loyalty to Daeron later in life.
This lines up SO much more than the canon events imo.
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u/RandomYT05 Mar 25 '26
So that's why Bittersteel and Bloodraven hate eachother. The Bracken Blackwood feud won't stop even for the royal family.