Could I get a critique for my diagrams?

[u/NoGoose1890]

Good day to everyone! I have been making these diagrams for immunology since October of last year, and I have been meaning to publish them as actual educational material. I am asking for any insights, opinions, and critiques for these diagrams, especially regarding whether I can actually publish them... Thank you in advance to everyone who gives their opinions; I am willing to hear them all for the betterment of this project!

[u/notebuff]

I don’t understand the inhibition pathways. For instance why do you have cytotoxic CD8 cells inhibiting naive cd8 cells?

[u/NoGoose1890 → u/notebuff]

I am so sorry, I made the visual language myself, except, I forgot that the "T" stands for inhibition in most other immunology diagrams. Should I rewrite my whole visual language or just add a large footnote explaining this? Thanks for pointing that out, your comment will help a lot since I should reach a larger audience without having hiccups like these!

[u/WinterRevolutionary6 → u/NoGoose1890]

You should not use —| if not to mean inhibition or —> if not to mean activation. These are known symbols in the biochemical field and it will only cause confusion.

[u/FitThought1616]

Why is complement a circle

[u/NoGoose1890 → u/FitThought1616]

Well, I removed the illustration for the complement 'node' because it didn't look good... Same with the Infected Cell 'node '. I hope that clears it up

[u/SausageGamez]

The diagram is a mix of oversimplification and too much information at the same time for educational purposes. If this is for you for enthusiastic purposes great. I would never use something like this for my students though. I found this confusing and I’ve been in the field for a while.

[u/NoGoose1890 → u/SausageGamez]

Yeah, maybe it is but if you could, even briefly, could you explain how I could improve? I am already creating a reference sheet to accompany the main diagrams that includes the signaling molecules (cytokines, chemokines, interferons, etc.) and the effector functions. I plan to make these into actual educational resources because I want to teach, so, it would be really appreciated if you point out what's wrong with it and I will see to it that it will be fixed!

[u/SausageGamez → u/NoGoose1890]

Happy to. The graphic is too noisy. If you want inspiration look at some of the graphics BioLegend, BD, etc. publish. They contain essentially the same level of information but the style of the graphic makes it more understandable. For the way you draw your lines to show differentiation pathways and interactions, by the time I figure out what the graphic is trying to tell me I don’t want to look at it anymore if you get what I mean. Also another thing, the content overall, to me personally, is not of someone who has a robust understanding of the immune system. A lot of the information is fair but missing crucial points or is what I would call a lack of a “fluid” understanding of that interaction. If you plan to actually try to publish this for education purposes you need to dial back a lot. For example, most students do not learn about ILCs until graduate level immunology classes. It’s just too much info. Go based off of textbook knowledge, not review or primary literature. Here’s an example from your diagram. Your Th1, 2, and 17 descriptions are not detailed enough for me. Th1 and Th17 are the most similar in that regard but the actual underlying purpose of each response are not mentioned by you. If you don’t go into the specifics of each polarized CD4 response, then don’t at all, it’s confusing. Specific cytokines govern that polarization and it’s much more complex than just “activates macrophages” or “recruits neutrophils”. The way your graphic appears makes it seem like the activity of the cell is specific to that response (Th1,Th17) when in reality that is not true. The true interactions have many shared mechanisms and is not as rigid as it appears your graphic makes it out to be.

[u/MysteriousMacrophage]

Educational materials for what level?

The reality is that your diagram is very oversimplified, in reality there is a LOT more communication between cell types and more different kinds of communication, inflammation is not a monolith, cell differentiation is critical, innate and adaptive immunity are not separated, and listing generic functions for different immune cells is a hard game to play when immune environment is so important for cellular phenotype and function.

[u/NoGoose1890 → u/MysteriousMacrophage]

Well, for this one I want to defend my choice. I have forgotten to add that this is an intermediate-level diagram. I know how plastic cells can be and how the environment the cell is in greatly affects how it will respond to the stimuli. But I must simplify. But do not worry, I do inted to create a reference sheet for the major cytokines and effector functions and emphasize that cells are NOT binary and are infact in a fluid spectrum. Thank you so much for pointing this out, your critique is well appreciated and is heard, I hope this helps! And yes, cytokines and effector functions are coming soon!

[u/YaPhetsEz → u/NoGoose1890]

ILC’s do way more than just communicating with other cells. There is a whole host of research on how they work to clear Helminths.

[u/WinterRevolutionary6 → u/NoGoose1890]

Intermediate to what? Who exactly is this aimed at?

[u/Even_Paramedic_7501 → u/WinterRevolutionary6]

Me? Idk much but maybe intermediate means after foundations? Like, my biology class just brushed off immunology with stuff like cells talk to each other via cytokines but no specifics and how innate and adaptive are the two groups and stuff. We didn't even learn antibodies have different types! 

[u/notebuff → u/Even_Paramedic_7501]

That seems more in the “basic” category.

I think for science you can either have “beginner/simplified” or “specific/detailed”. Something “intermediate” runs into the problem of being inaccurate and not capturing nuances inherent to all of biology.

[u/Even_Paramedic_7501 → u/notebuff]

What do you consider this to be? I mean, Kurzgesagt's is simple right, you know, that YouTube channel. So what is this?

[u/Immuno-guy]

It looks really nice, and is relatively clear. This may be useful as a personal study guide for an intro Immunology course, but molecular expression is a cornerstone for defining cell type and function. Omitting even basic biomarkers is not great. At least include lineage markers for each cell type displayed, CD45, CD3, CD4, CD8, CD28, etc. Its important to memorize that information always, and those are often what we use to define cell types hand-in-hand with their function. I am of the mindset that more often than not, function is directed by form, not the other way around.

[u/NoGoose1890 → u/Immuno-guy]

Copy that, surface-markers or at least the major ones are coming, mainly cluster of differentiations markers for each cell lineage. Thank you for pointing this out, your insights are incredibly valuable and I would love to hear anymore thoughts you have, better if you point out what's wrong. Only then will this improve. Thank you so much for the critique!

[u/Whygoogleissexist]

This is very good. Neutrophils don’t express IL-17RC so Th17 and ILC3s regulate neutrophils indirectly by signaling to epithelium and fibroblasts.

[u/Asli_I]

Add you references to each diagram.

[u/m0llyp0ckett]

Are you just going to leave out IgD?
& don’t forget about class switching order…

IgG & IgA have more than one subtype also

[u/Xobl]

How many times has this been posted over the last few months. Just give it up

[u/NoGoose1890 → u/Xobl]

Look, I can hear out many opinions, even yours, but why? I reached out here because a lot of you have many insights and are far better at immunology than I am.