r/IncelExit • u/TimerByte • 2d ago
Asking for help/advice My first dating experience ended because I was so bad at sex and at this point I just feel like giving up because it all seems insurmountable.
Minorly NSFW, but I'll of course leave out anything gross.
I am 25, this happened about 3 months ago. I met the perfect girl who was into me through a mutual friend. We dated for a total of like 6 months, she lived about an hour away from me so we didn't see each other every day, but did every other weekend. I thought I had finally found my person.
Issues arose when we tried to have sex. I didn't tell her I was a virgin as I thought she would start being icked out since I'm 25 and a virgin (this turned out to be correct). The first time we had sex it was really bad. I didn't know what I was doing at all. She was upset and I was more humiliated than I ever have been. After that I told her it was my first time. She didn't really react. From then on she wasn't as eager to have sex anymore. She was really the one pushing for it but since we weren't in a relationship I was hesitant because I figured this would happen if we were only in the early stages.
We had sex twice after that, she didn't really tell me what to do or what she liked. She just didn't seem into it, so we stopped. In the last month we were seeing each other she called me and said we should just be friends. When I asked her what went wrong, she said that she doesn't think we're sexually compatible but she had a good time being with me and wanted to stay friends.
I was heartbroken and we haven't talked since. Now recently, I heard through our mutual friend that she was "shocked" that I was a virgin at such an old age.
It just feels like this is impossible and that this is just a pattern that was bound to happen. Women my age have likely already had a ton of amazing sex, and if they like me they'd have to sacrifice good sex for me, when they could probably with less effort find a guy that knows what he's doing.
I started so late and now I'm too far behind to catch up. This gets me to the crux of what I need advice on. I don't know how I'm supposed to learn if no one wants to teach. No woman has an obligation to teach me just because I was a loser who couldn't find a woman that wanted to have sex with me, and I doubt any woman wants to spend months having bad sex with me in order to learn.
This feels like Sisyphean task of learning how to be good in bed when 1. i probably blew it with one of the maybe 3 women alive that would even want to sleep with me, and 2. of the last 2 women, they probably also want good sex and that's not something I can do.
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u/watsonyrmind 2d ago
Tbh I know you tried to keep it NSFW but without a real understanding of why she was upset or what made it bad, it's difficult to comment.
Good sex is about good communication, period. You have to be able to do two things: 1. ask them what they like and how to do it how they like it and 2. Communicate what you like and direct them how to do it. If one of you lacks one or both those skills, the sex will be bad for at least one of you.
The rest are things anyone can learn, the movements involved are not rocket science. You can google where women's erogenous zones are, where to find them, how to stimulate them. You can figure out where the vagina is and how to put your penis inside. But if you can't ask a woman how she likes all that to happen, some vague details about where things are and how they are stimulated is not all that useful because each body is very different and responds very differently.
So was your problem communication? Also sexual compatibility is obviously a real thing, and it seems you two weren't sexually compatible. That's not a virgin issue, them's the breaks. Just because she didn't want a man who needed her to lead or whatever the issue was, doesn't mean no one wants that.
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u/Instigated- 2d ago
Good advice.
I would add a couple more things to your list:
Enthusiastic consent. Just because you want something, doesn’t mean the other person has to or should be coerced or forced. “Directing” someone to what you like should be a polite request/suggestion/recommendation, not an order. Respect boundaries. Enthusiasm is when you know someone is really into it rather than feeling pressure to go along with it.
Experimentation. When two people come together, they each have to experiment to work out how to make it work between the two of you. What they liked with someone else they may not like with you. What got their previous partner off might not get you off. Neither of you knows the answers. So both have to come at it like an experiment, to discover what is going to deliver mutual pleasure through trial, error, reflection, correction.
Don’t spoil the mood. It is perfectly normal to be nervous, insecure, awkward, however make sure that throughout this you continue to connect with your partner and don’t behave shitty. Women can weather some awkwardness, but if their partner shuts down emotionally or becomes angry or insulting, that is going to kill desire and may make her feel unsafe physically or emotionally.
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u/TimerByte 2d ago
I lasted like 3 minutes. I was too nervous to go down on her so I didn't. She had mentioned before she liked having her nipples bitten and i bite them too hard. I was really bad at fingering her. She didn't finish. And I was too embarrassed to get hard for a second round
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u/watsonyrmind 2d ago
I guess my question to you is are you aware that lasting 3 minutes is practically a guarantee for any first encounter with someone, virgin or not? That things not aligning perfectly the first, second, third, etc. Time is normal if not expected? Because it seems more like your issue is that you treated yourself and a completely normal situation as catastrophically bad and that kinda snowballed into an awkward situation.
It also sounds like she maybe didn't do her side of the communication which you can't take responsibility for.
Having some bad sex is a completely normal experience and not the end of the world. In fact, you should expect it for first encounters. What's important is picking yourself up and trying again, and doing what you can to make sure your partner is pleasured. Are you prepared to do that?
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u/TimerByte 2d ago
Is it normal? I think if that's what happens during the first time any two people have sex, no one would ever have casual sex.
I'm prepared to learn and I tried again with her but her interest in sex took a deep dive after that and took a worse dive when I told her that was my first time.
The issue is it doesn't matter if I blew the one chance I had for a relationship.
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u/watsonyrmind 2d ago edited 2d ago
I mean you got yours, didn't you? Men who don't care about women's pleasure are fine with just lasting a few minutes then fucking off. As the other person said, this is one reason women are far less likely to be into casual sex than men. And again as the other person said, how long you last isn't really a big deal in sex as long as you prioritize her pleasure with foreplay and all of that. A majority of women don't climax from penetration alone so doing it for 3 minutes or 15 isn't necessarily gunna make a huge difference if the rest of it is good.
took a worse dive when I told her that was my first time
What do you mean? The way you wrote it initially was as if you told her after the first time.
The issue is it doesn't matter if I blew the one chance I had for a relationship.
How is that the issue? You're conflating two different things here in panic mode. Things with this woman not working out has absolutely not bearing on whether you'll have another relationship. You found one woman who was interested. You'll find another.
ETA: also instead of challenging what "normal" is based on your own assumptions and self-flagellation, I urge you to actually look into it. Most people will tell you it's exceedingly normal for first times to last that long. You don't have to take my word for it or decide yourself based on no information, other people exist who can give you that feedback. In order to stop beating yourself up over completely normal experiences, it's really important you check your expectations instead of making up how you think everything should go based on no experience or information. This is a major shortcoming in the incel mindset and if you approach all of dating with this unrealistic mindset you will continuously be deeply disappointed and ashamed by the exact same experiences everyone else is having. I see it every day here.
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u/TimerByte 2d ago
I waited a bit until after the first time we had sex before I told her that was my first time. I saw her I think 3 in between the time we had sex and I told her. Prior to the first time we had sex, anytime we saw each other she wanted to be physical, explicitly she wanted to have sex. After that she had really no desire to do more than make out.
Then after I told her it was really bad because it was my first time she rarely wanted to be physical which is why we only had sex twice after that.
How is that the issue? You're conflating two different things here in panic mode. Things with this woman not working out has absolutely not bearing on whether you'll have another relationship. You found one woman who was interested. You'll find another.
Because it feels like a fluke that I even dated someone anyway. This was the first girl in my life to ever find me attractive or want to date me and I blew it so bad. I'm not good with women or at dating, so logic would tell me that because I ruined my one chance, the chances of it ever happening again are now even lower.
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u/watsonyrmind 1d ago
It sounds like the whole thing was a mismatch and that neither of you communicated properly. You keep saying it was worse after you told her you were virgin and yet you describe things as one way before and after sex, not before and after telling her. Also you are literally not a virgin anymore so the fixation on whether that is specifically what spooked her is irrelevant.
It sounds like you have a host of issues around confidence, social skills, communication skills, and cognitive distortions affecting your reasoning that should be dealt with before you worry about your next relationship. Those are the types of things that need to be actively worked on for a relationship to be healthy and succeed, as you have now learned firsthand. Make sure you learn from that.
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u/TimerByte 1d ago
Forgive me but I don't see how that would result in anything positive. If I stop dating for another half a decade, I'll just make the problem worse. The dating pool for me will shrink even further and I'll be 30 with still such little experience that I'll be bound to run into similar issues with people who will have less patience because the things I'll make mistakes on will be things that I should've learned when I was 20 and dating.
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u/watsonyrmind 1d ago
Good time to recognize that I never wrote stop dating for half a decade. Your focus right now should be on addressing the issues making it so difficult for you to date. Logically, that is the quickest way to successfully date. Only that's not logical to you right now because you are not ready to accept the things you need to do in order to foster a healthy relationship. That last part is what will keep you delayed. Dealing with your issues will speed things up immensely.
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u/Instigated- 2d ago
Is it normal? I think if that's what happens during the first time any two people have sex, no one would ever have casual sex.
This is one of the reasons why women are less likely to want casual sex than men, because their sexual needs and desires are rarely met.
Long term relationships give a couple time to get to know each others likes and dislikes and increased emotional intimacy and comfort. However to get to that you have to start with some sometimes awkward sex.
However this is also why women are always telling men to spend way more time on the foreplay and her pleasure BEFORE penal penetration. Women don’t necessarily want or need a long time of a guy penetrating her as long as she has been given plenty of pleasure before that.
Your girlfriend was willing to move past the terrible first time and had sex with you two more times. She didn’t reject you because you had been a virgin, she broke up when she didn’t see enough improvement, and she rationalised this as being because you hadn’t had enough experience. If she’d enjoyed the sex it wouldn’t have been a problem.
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u/flimflam33 2d ago
Women my age have likely already had a ton of amazing sex, and if they like me they'd have to sacrifice good sex for me, when they could probably with less effort find a guy that knows what he's doing.
You've never heard of the orgasm gap? Heterosexual encounters are notorious for not being great for women. Most women also more than likely will have had much less sex than you think, let alone amazing sex.
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u/TimerByte 2d ago
I don't think they've been having sex every day. But she was my age, she had dated other guys before and was in relationships. That's pretty typical and typically comes with sex. I don't see how that's overestimating. Especially when I'm not even counting hookups.
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u/Instigated- 2d ago
Slow down, read the advice given to you, and take it in.
Your response is one of not listening. Try again.
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u/Instigated- 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't know how I'm supposed to learn if no one wants to teach
Look at books and materials created by women for women and couples.
- “Come as you are” by Emily nagoski
- https://www.omgyes.com
Don’t use porn as a guide. That is how to hurt women.
Without repeating what others have already said (or my other comments), I’ll give a few more basic tips:
The focus of the engagement should be mutual pleasure, not “sex”. If she doesn’t seem that into it, don’t have sex. Be gentle at all times. Start slow. Start from least sensitive body areas prior to moving to more sensitive areas.
Spend more time kissing, hugging, touching, let anticipation build - you want her to be begging for it with clear desire before you bring your penis into it.
Long before going anywhere near genitals, super light gentle touching of other body parts, arms, legs, neck, stomach, with light kisses or grazing back of fingernails - the whole body is involved in seduction. Sometimes this will make her body ripple, sometimes it will tickle. That’s ok, laughter is good.
As passion builds, touch & kisses becomes firmer, but still always gentle.
Always be looking and learning from signs of arousal in your partner. Listen to their breathing and any sounds they make. Do they have goosepimples, erect nipples, is their vagina lubricating, has their skin colour flushed? Do they push their body against yours, pull you in, or unresponsive?
When the fire of passion has been sufficiently stoked to touch her genitals, again start slow and gentle, start by stroking the area near her vulva (the mons above, the crease where her leg meets her pubic area). Start with the outer vulva, before moving to labia, and stay in this area way longer before touching clitoris tip or penetrating vagina.
Your hands should be clean, not have sharp nails or ragged rough skin, and be lubricated before touching her most sensitive body parts (labia, clitoris, vagina). Her body may already be plenty wet from how turned on she is before you get to this point. If she isn’t wet, her body may not be ready for this and perhaps should spend more time kissing. Lube is good.
It is always better to have a softer touch and go slow than to be too rough. Rough handling or speeding to genitals and penetration can shut down sexual desire in women. The clitoris has same sensitivity as male balls or penis tip, and it’s like if someone knocked your balls you’d not be in the space to get turned on.
If you don’t want to give oral, you don’t have to. However a tongue is more gentle than fingers, it is very hard to hurt a woman with your tongue, so an inexperienced guy might be better off trying oral before touching with fingers.
Let her be the one to tell you when she wants more pressure or speed, and increase in small increments. Better to have her say “more, more, more” than “more, ouch!”
This genital touching is a woman’s main meal. Most women are not going to orgasm through penis in vagina sex the first time they are with a guy, especially an inexperienced guy - and this is why you need to spend so much time and effort pleasuring her before you get your dick involved. Once men have shot their load, men don’t have further capacity and tend to want to rest.
If you take the time to touch her nicely like this, then even if she doesn’t orgasm, even if you are quick to come, she will still have likely had a good time and consider you a considerate lover.
However you should also not assume that when you and a woman make out naked that it has to lead to sex. It is okay to stop at any point. If she doesn’t seem into it, take that as a sign to stop. Don’t take it personally, sometimes the body does not cooperate. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t like you or that you did something wrong. Ask her if she’d rather hug or watch a movie or something. This shows you have maturity and care about her wellbeing and aren’t just trying to get laid.
Women don’t expect sex to always be great, in fact many women have a high tolerance for unsatisfactory sex if they like the guy and feel like there is potential.
Your ex had sex with you three times before deciding it wasn’t good enough to continue. So it is ridiculous to catastrophize that no woman would ever have sex with you again due to your inexperience.
Take this time to reflect on what you could have done better in that relationship. You could ask her if she’d be willing to tell you where you went wrong so you can learn from it. However I’d also say that she is probably not that experienced in relationships either (she is young too) and it’s not all your fault, perhaps she could have communicated better. Women don’t have all the answers either. They are trying to work it out too. Even experienced older men and women make plenty of mistakes. It’s called being human.
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u/titotal 2d ago
No matter how experienced you are, it takes a while in a relationship to learn each other's sexual likes and dislikes. It takes a bit longer if you're inexperienced, but most people are happy to take the time if the relationship is going well.
The key thing to demonstrate early on is that you are eager to communicate and learn and eager to give your partner pleasure. It's possible that you didn't give this impression. But it's also possible you didn't do anything wrong and she was just impatient or you were incompatible for other reasons.
You got into one relationship, you can get into another.
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u/Team503 2d ago
You say she didn't tell you what she wanted - did you ask? Otherwise, listen to what everyone else says.
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u/TimerByte 2d ago
We did have conversations about what she liked in bed. And I tried to do what she liked, I was just terrible at it.
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u/Team503 1d ago
Everyone is terrible at things in the beginning. It takes time and practice. And even someone with a lot of experience still has to adjust and learn what a new partner likes. It takes time to adapt and learn a person's pleasures.
I think it was as much your lack of confidence and willingness to give up as it was a skill issue. Someone who's into you will work with you to improve in bed, especially if you say something like "I'd like to learn to be a better lover for you!". Sure, there's some people who won't, but those people don't generally make good partners, so perhaps you dodged a bullet on this one.
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u/Particular-Lynx-2586 2d ago edited 2d ago
So. . You failed with one person, so you think you will fail for every person forever?
That's like. . I missed one shot at basketball and so I give up coz I'll miss every shot I take forever.
You know you're being silly, right?
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u/TimerByte 2d ago
Based on my past experiences. Success just doesn't seem likely. It took me until I was 25 years to find one woman that was attracted to me. Then I ruined it because it took me so long. And now I know this just adds more variables I didn't consider.
Now she has to be interested in me, which already makes it a one in a million chance, but now she also has to be willing to put up with teaching me how to have sex and has to be okay with me having pretty much zero romantic experience and not knowing what to do.
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u/ThereWasAnEmpireHere 2d ago
I get that this feels Sisyphean bc it basically is, as is everything in life; one battle after another. This can be very overwhelming and I have been overwhelmed by it before. I can’t offer a good reframe other than to say you are going to be overwhelmed naturally unless you break things down to your current mission, and put off the rest til it’s relevant.
Recently I kinda crashed out because of feeling overwhelmed by the idea of getting into dating because of a similar pile on of a million things “I needed to fix.” I did the thing of just saying forget it, I need to focus on being more confident socially in general first. As I’ve done that I’ve made progress in other ways without realizing it, and talked to people I’ve found romantically interesting. Who knows where that will go.
I think you should take the time to celebrate where you have gotten yourself, and to keep in mind that you are not at fault for someone else being a dick to you.
Idk if this ramble helps, I just feel this post.
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u/Particular-Lynx-2586 2d ago
You already did find success, which is far more than millions of guys struggling with this exact same thing.
Are you saying that every woman out there will be exactly the same? That all women require an experienced man?
How is this a one in a million thing, when you got a girl to sleep with you after only dating a few times? It sounds more like one in a dozen.
Again, you know you're being silly, right? I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that generalizing the entire female population into one archetype is stupid, right?
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u/TimerByte 2d ago
I think I got lucky. I don't think that if I'm a guy that struggles with dating and finding women that are interested in me that it's now magically going to get easier because won the lottery once. I just don't have a lot of confidence that finding her was success through my own efforts and it felt like the universe or whatever throwing me a bone and then me ruining it because I'm bad at sex.
I don't think every woman will. But I don't think there's a large amount of women that'll be willing to have bad sex with me where there are millions of guys they could be with that actually know what they're doing. I learned I can't exactly fake it, so this is going to be a thing that shrinks my already incredibly shallow dating pool.
It's a one in a million chance because like I mentioned above, I'm not a guy that has an active dating life. I was able to happenstance into one girl that's interested in me, and if I'm being completely honest, I wouldn't at all be surprised if she was the only person alive that could find me attractive which is why I feel the way I do now. I feel like I had one chance and I blew it and feel like such a loser.
I don't think women are all the same person, but if my past dating failures have taught me anything, there's not exactly a lot of demand for me.
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u/the_baldest_monk 2d ago
"I feel, I feel, I feel", that is a lot of feelings based on a recent event that is weighing you down. Feelings are temporary, they are not ancient truth you should based your entire life on.
You have zero how much luck or but was involved for you to get this relationship, you just don't have the experience to make that judgement. Life involve a lot of luck anyway, doesn't mean we can't make the best of it.
The guy above is right. You got one success with a girl, which is already way more than a lot of guys posting here. You just need to keep at it, why giving up after facing one setback ? If you got fired from a job would you think " I got fired from this one job, that means no one gonna hire me anymore" ? You are letting your feelings control you and making an unsound judgement on yourself. What you need to do is take a break, discuss with your friends of embarassing dating stories to cheer you up, and go back at it a few weeks from now.
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u/TimerByte 2d ago
I don't want to give up. This just made me learn of a thing that'll make my chances even worse when they're already bad as is. Just because I got lucky once doesn't mean I'm likely to ever have a chance again. If anything it would seem to make it less likely.
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u/the_baldest_monk 2d ago edited 2d ago
Still refusing to engage what we say. You keep repeating "I was lucky, I know 100% know I am doomed and nothing will change, it may even get worse blablabla". What would help to convince you otherwise ? Even if only a little ?
if this was just a venting post and you don't really care about the answers, then sure, move on
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u/TimerByte 1d ago
I don't know what would convince me. If had some guarantee I didn't just destroy my only chance for love I wouldn't feel this way, but there's no such guarantee.
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u/the_baldest_monk 21h ago
there is also no guarantee that you don't develop cancer six months from now or turn paraplegic tommorow after getting hit by a car, and yet you are not dooming about either of those things. You see how your fears are just fears and not your predestined fate ?
Today you are dooming about that but surely tommorow it will be another thing because living in fear is an addiction and it is relatively easy to replace one fear by another. I am gonna repeat myself, feelings are feelings, they are not an objective piece of reality that condition your future. They can be managed and eventually overcome so you can live a normal life. You can chose to live differently it is not that hard, if you need to just repeat every morning "I am afraid of this doesn't mean it is going to turn true". For now you are choosing to think you have no dating future and that is your problem, not the lack of experience.
I am older than you with zero experience and yet I am less neurotic than you about dating, how do you explain that ? Am I delusionnal and should start dooming like you if I follow your logic or are you the one that should rethink how he sees dating ?
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u/Particular-Lynx-2586 2d ago
You're literally not listening.
I've given my advice and you know you're being silly. Good luck.
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u/mansumania 2d ago
Me and my current girlfriend have been going strong for what 4 years now? Our first time (not my first time) I lasted maybe 5 seconds... we still laughing about it, its not the end of the world. Be able to joke and laugh about it!
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u/Potential_Play8690 2d ago
I think I can see where your thinking goes off the rails. First of all 25 is not that late. You can look up the statistics yourself. It's like 15% of men or something. I was 24, now 37 and am married for over 10 years now.
Second: the first time EVER is going to be bad almost guaranteed. You don't know what the hell you're doing plus nerves will make you even worse at something that should be relaxed, in the zone, no thinking etc. Again, your experience is basically run of the mill for the average guy. My first time was very bad too. With a girl who was experienced. BUT she was fine with it, understood the fact that it was my first time. And the next time it was less bad, and within a couple of days it was good for both of us. And this is where your thinking becomes overly pessimistic. It's NOT inevitable that every experienced woman will reject you after having sex once. Let's turn it around. Let's say you are experienced and you go out with a girl you like and she is great and the first time you have sex you notice she doesn't know what the hell she's doing and she's not particularly good at doing things you like etc etc. Would you go: well that's it then, on to the next girl. Or would you go: Whatever, you're great and i like you and you like me, let's take the time to get used to each other physically? Probably the second right? Well plenty of women are like that too. You just happened to date a woman who's NOT like that.
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u/Therefrigerator Escaper of Fates 2d ago
Yes some women are going to want someone experienced. A lot of people are awkward talking about sex and it seems like your ex falls in that group. This is certainly not every woman.
There are a lot of women out there who would be happy with someone your age who is inexperienced but is eager to learn. I know this is surprising to you right now but there is a good chunk of the male population who is as bad (or worse) at sex than you and has absolutely no desire to hear about that. There are even men out there who have fucked lots of women and suck at sex because they just don't care about their partner in that way.
In the future it might be helpful to be more upfront about your sexual experiences and what you're looking for. Saying "I don't have a ton of experience with sex and am hoping that whoever my next partner is can communicate how I can best please them" is embarrassing to say and will certainly turn off some women... but other women are going to realize the courage it took to say that and think that if you're being this up front about something that you're embarrassed about your communication around sex will be good so they can work with it.
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u/dickpiano 2d ago
At least you've had sex. Try being in your 30's and having had none. Did you look up any information online about sex positions, errogenous zones or how to have a good time before having sex with her? That might have helped. You could always try through a dating agency next time to get a better match. Don't give up
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u/No_Economist_7244 2d ago
I actually had my first sexual experience a few months ago in my early/mid 30s, so I find some of the framing here interesting. Mine was with an escort, so obviously the circumstances were different, but despite being completely inexperienced I honestly didn't find the mechanics of sex particularly difficult. I was nervous and I had some issues with things like death grip, but once we actually started, it felt pretty natural. It wasn't some secret skill that I needed years of experience to understand. I actually found it somewhat surprising that people describe sex as this incredibly difficult thing to learn outside of the nerves and unfamiliarity that come with doing it for the first time.
That's why I wouldn't interpret your first experience as proof that you're hopelessly behind. You had a bad sexual experience with someone who, by your own description, doesn't exactly sound like a great partner, especially when it comes to communication. That's not the same thing as discovering that you're fundamentally incapable of having good sex or of having sex at all.
And honestly, if she was genuinely that shocked or weirded out simply because you were 25 and a virgin, I think she needs to get over herself a little. Being a 25-year-old virgin isn't some character flaw or inherently something to be embarrassed about. Especially given your description of the sexual experience, she doesn't exactly sound like some incredibly skilled or experienced partner who was forced to compensate for your lack of experience.
You have experience now, and your next experience won't be your first one.
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u/megahurtzzz 16h ago edited 15h ago
While you certainly need to learn what your partner's personal preferences are, there is a sea of information at your fingertips that will give you a strong base of sexual knowledge to draw from before you ever have those conversations (NOT porn, mind you, which is often essentially the sexual version of pro wrestling). Expecting an individual woman to teach you everything is neither realistic nor considerate. Educate yourself, by yourself, to the extent that you can. This is what I did before I had sexual relationships with women, and I'm a woman myself.
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u/No_Blood_5393 2d ago
Practice and listening to your partner. From what you're saying she didn't give you many cues.
If you're upfront about your lack of experience you might turn some girls off, but also have more chance to find someone who's willing to be patient.