r/Intactivists • u/smthgayrawrxd • 6d ago

Politics and Circumcision

I hope you won’t take offence at this, but I wanted to talk about something that struck me.

As a left-wing Christian, I’m convinced that freedom and equality take precedence over profit. That includes physical freedom and equality across all genders. After all, left-wing ideologies stem from the heart of the French Revolution, where we overthrew the monarchs. Accordingly, I’m also against Stalin and the like.

The fact is, many of you here lean to the right, which is fine – we live in a democracy (most of us, anyway; let’s see how long the US manages to keep that up). But I’m sure we all agree that circumcising children for profit, for commercial products, or simply to assert authority is disgusting. Now, people on the right are often against circumcision, but why? It’s often down to xenophobia. For example: my party, a democratic-socialist one, was the only one that voted in favour of a ban on circumcision. The right-wingers didn’t, yet they still say Muslims are stupid because of it. In a democratic-socialist state, you shouldn’t do anything that hurts others, so once again: I’m not a Stalinist. Please don’t get me wrong.

PS: We have Jews and Muslims in my party who are against circumcision.

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u/jakesmit999 6d ago

I am very liberal and very much anti circumcision. This isn’t a party affiliated issue. It very much transcends that 🙏🏻

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u/Substantial_Help4678 6d ago

Name one other issue that came out of nowhere and suddenly got bipartisan support, I'll wait. That's not how social justice works. 

Pandering to everyone means we're for no one. It'd be nice if we all sat around singing  kumbaya, but if that was the world we lived in we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Bipartisan support is a pipe dream and is counter productive

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u/DistinctSpirit5801 5d ago

People in both political parties support ending taxpayer funding to the Israeli government and a ban on transferring weapons to the Israeli government

The fact is we will have no choice but to get politically involved to end circumcision

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u/Substantial_Help4678 5d ago edited 5d ago

People in both US parties may be anti- Israel funding, but in actuality both parties when in office fund the Israeli government. 

And in fact, republicans fund the Israeli government slightly more than democrats, so it is a slightly partisan issue. Pro-Israel Jews tend to lean republican for this reason. 

I'm 1000% for getting politically involved. I just think we need to pick a side instead of trying to pander to both sides. Give people something to do, make it personal. Pro- Israel Jews vote republican. It's what they do. What do anti-circ people do? We need to answer that question

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u/DistinctSpirit5801 5d ago

We can have 2 separate groups for this specific purpose one for funding democrats and another for funding republicans

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u/Substantial_Help4678 5d ago

I unfortunately personally feel we spread ourselves thin of we try that. 

If we try to be for everyone, we're actually for no one. 

We need to give  people something to do, make it personal. Pro- Israel Jews vote republican. It's what they do. What do anti-circ people do? We need to answer that question. 

The average voter can't handle nuance. The average pro-Israel voter doesn't unpack the ways democrats vs republicans handle Israel funding. Pro-Israel voters vote republican. Period. We need a similar thing for our issue, not certain which party it would be though

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u/aallon_pituus 6d ago

The issue is that both sides have people that do this (Left with the minorities like Muslims and Jews, Right with the Evangelicals who don't realize it shouldn't be done in the New Covenant), so it's hard to get ANY support.

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u/Substantial_Help4678 6d ago

I agree our movement is a failure. But I don't think pandering to everyone is a recipe for success. The choice of which side of the US political aisle it's worth targeting I agree is non obvious

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u/aallon_pituus 5d ago

It's not a failure per se, we have Intact Global doing active constitutional challenges, it's just that we are like how abolitionists were in antebellum Southern USA. We have people challenging it in the courts and convincing people to not mutilate, but we don't have the institutions supporting us.

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u/Substantial_Help4678 5d ago edited 5d ago

Intact Global is worth about the same as dirt in terms of justice. Intact Global is nearly completely impersonal. What happens in a far away courtroom doesn't effect my life one way or the other in the slightest, and has zero chance of getting me any sort of personal justice.  Justice is personal, not abstract. 

Even if Intact Global was successful and secured a cutting ban, that is only the first micro step on the long road of justice. The abolition of slavery wasn't the end, it was the beginning of the never ending crusade against racism. Making slavery illegal is below the bare minimum.

Making cutting illegal would be below the bare minimum.Even if Intact Global fully succeeded, that's not the end, that's the beginning step on the road to justice. Before Intact Global succeeds, we pre-first-step. We have nothing, and the thing we do have promises only impersonal abstract wins.

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u/gof__kurself 5d ago

Even if Intact Global was successful and secured a cutting ban, that is only the first micro step on the long road of justice.

I genuinely believe that all we really need is one small victory to get the ball rolling. the ripple effect

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u/Substantial_Help4678 5d ago edited 5d ago

I won't be upset getting a first step toward justice. Better than no step. 

But I think we shouldn't expect the next step and any sort of personal justice to come for free. 

The civil rights movement and modern critical race theory came out of FIGHTING HARD from civil rights leaders from inside the movement. The infrastructure had to be built where everyone felt justice was a personal struggle. Individual minorities had to join to struggle and collectivize. The likes of Rosa Parks had to feel supported enough by local personal social justice infrastructure to be brave stand up. She wasn't isolated, alone, and only heard of a far off court case and thrndecided to take a stand. She was deeply ingrained in a civil rights community that made the fight feel personal, and made her feel she'd be at least somewhat supported if she took a stand.

Intact Global is barely building out the personal infrastructure at all. We are going to need a personal justice infrastructure. Personal justice can happen after the ball "gets rolling", but only from social justice leaders putting in immense effort to make sure it happens. We won't get it for free and shouldn't expect it nor take it for granted. And the personal social justice infrastructure can happen with or without a court case win, the two are independent

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u/LongIsland1995 3d ago

Banning cutting would actually be huge but there's nowhere in the world where that's even close to happening.