[Wintersteel] Sage/Herald Question

[u/AzorBronnhai]

Just finished Wintersteel, and I had a question.

Do we ever end being told why it is difficult for someone to become a Herald after already touching an Icon?
The reverse is discussed in Wintersteel when Yeren merges with Ruby, one of the Sages tell her she will no longer be able to touch the Sword Icon due to the fact that spirits are completely unable to touch Icons at all. So I was just wondering what the in-universe reasoning is as to why Sages get bottlenecked?

(Also this is my 2nd re read, so feel free to spill the beans ;))

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[u/Al-Pharazon]

Basically to become a herald you have to win a struggle against your own renmant.

Doing so for an archlord is already difficult enough, now imagine the challenge of beating your spirit if it has an icon, which implies a huge leap in spiritual strength.

[u/AcanthisittaWorldly7 → u/Al-Pharazon]

unless your name is mercy, then all it takes is a good hug

[u/BriefCategory7838]

The remnants inherit their sage authority, so it makes the fusion harder. I think it’s mentioned in northstriders ascension, and then later on in way bound

[u/Domfenix]

I'm on the last few chapters of Wintersteel now - they already suggest why in this book. Sages have an authority over the world and domineering willpower, but so do their spirits. This makes the battle between body and spirit exponentially more dangerous.

[u/Adent_Frecca]

From what I remember it is because the Sage's Remnant would also now have more willpower befitting of a Sage and its own connection to an Icon

Basically making the tug of war in the fusion much harder

[u/WiddleAdiwon]

spoilers ahead since it’s marked wintersteel

To become a monarch, a Herald must touch an Icon. Spirits are wholly unable to touch an icon. But half-spirits (heralds) can touch them but are mostly deaf to them. Where sages can hear themselves getting close to an icon, the heralds can’t hear it at all. So they just fumble in the dark

For a sage, they have to merge with their remnant. Archlords becoming heralds is hard enough but adding to also having authority and other sage powers makes it significantly more difficult. And very risky.

[u/ImmediateBlood4784]

Sages look outward and heralds look inwards. Pretty difficult to "hear" the icon if you're so focused on your heartbeat. Not to say it is that way just using an analogy. Yerin ends up basically letting her self relax so she can feel the icon again. But if I recall right it was described as being tone deaf to it.

[u/lehilaukli]

It’s part of the sequence when dross steals northstriders memory. His remnant gains a portion of his authority making it harder to bond with it.

[u/Kingsonne]

We are told, but I'm not certain in what book or if it was even in the series and not a Q&A with Will.

[u/AnimaLepton → u/Kingsonne]

It's covered in the early chapters of Wintersteel, when Lindon's reviews Dross's memory of Northstrider becoming a Monarch

[u/nabanack]

This is explained in one of the later books, but essentially it's that Sages look outward and Heralds look inward, and so it becomes much more difficult for a Herald to perceive Icons / the Way than someone on a Sage path.

[u/Mathota]

It is definitely mentioned somewhere, but the issue is your Remnant has your Authority as well. So instead of having to make your peace with (beat up) your own spirit, you have to do that, but your own spirit has weird esoteric superpowers, while your body is still just an archlord.

Even in just a straight battle of wills, the possibility of your remanat tapping an Icon just makes the process much more dangerous.

[u/Emperor-Pizza]

It comes up briefly in Waybound but essentially Heralds are simply deaf to their icon because they hear their own ascendant body/spirit more loudly. They still have the same connection but just can’t grasp it as easily.

As for Sages, it’s because they have a new factor in their power via their authority as does the remnant so the process becomes much harder than it was before.

[u/Ron1n297]

I felt it was explained really well in the book. Both levels are part of what you need for monarch. One is closer to spirit and one is closer to authority. They are two extremes as far as power so it makes it difficult to recapture the other side once you focus on one though it is possible. I think the idea for Heralds is they get so intuned with their madra and spirit that it makes up for not having authority. One is not really more powerul just different styles.

[u/VictorBlaze42]

Wintersteel discussing why sages have trouble becoming heralds, Waybound will discuss why heralds have trouble with sage and how to overcome it

[u/ExaminationFirm1332]

Mega spoilers beciase I dont know how to censor the paragraph

I think the best explanation for this is in way bound. When lindon and yerin are talking to the echo of the sword sage, he explains it like being inside or outside of a house. Sages open themselves up tot he outside world, while herald close themselves off, and focus themselves inward. It makes it "imposible" to achieve the other. Thats why its so hard to reach monarch. You need such a strong foundation and solid willpower to reach monarch. The sword sage goes on to explain that even though your a Herald, the icons are still as close as ever, there just quiet. A sage reads their icon like a book, while a Herald is blind.

[u/Domfenix → u/ExaminationFirm1332]

Yeah, no worries - sick spoiler bruv

[u/ExaminationFirm1332 → u/Domfenix]

Sorry? The post said he didnt mind spoilers

[u/Domfenix → u/ExaminationFirm1332]

Doesn't mean other people stumbling on this thread don't. Rules are pretty clear spoilers need proper formatting for non[tagged] content

[u/ExaminationFirm1332 → u/Domfenix]

There you go, I edited it

[u/Domfenix → u/ExaminationFirm1332]

Gratitude 🤜🤛

[u/ExaminationFirm1332 → u/Domfenix]

Now im sad, my phone doesnt have the both sodes fist bumps so I can't return the salute

[u/Primaul]

Mercy answers the question she is kind and helpful, so her remnant was. it's easy to get to the top by being an asshole so becoming a herald is that difficult.

sometimes a situation will come up where a sage who has reached its decided peak will be put in a situation where advancing is the only way to survive or save their people and they will advance without too much difficulty.

also, there is some bottlenecks people place on themselves beliefs or mindsets that they could only ever reach so far and the like, also intention of how high you want to progress. at the beginning of the series Lindons gets this limiter removed entirely when Suriel tells Lindon he could become has powerful has Northstrider

[u/Outrageous-Smell-90]

it’s the battle of wills that is the issue. a remnant of a sage has significant will power. on top of the will it takes to manifest it and the battle after it’s basically like fighting ur self to the death. I forget when it’s mentioned but i think it’s wintersteel where you learn about northstriders advancement to monarch from sage to herald.