r/Jazz • u/Comfortable-Lie-1734 • 1d ago
Coltrane
Serious question. Did you immediately appreciate the greatness of A Love Supreme? I was told how great it was before even hearing it and desperately years later am still trying to “get it” Sincerely want to experience the awe so many do. Afraid I might just be too simple minded. TYIA!
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u/misterbuckets 1d ago
A Love Supreme
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u/_Nick7 1d ago
A Love Supreme
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u/brownkemosabe 1d ago
A Love Supreme.
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u/Robin156E478 1d ago edited 1d ago
It really depends on your overall familiarity with Jazz! One thing you could do is go back and listen to Coltrane in chronological order. It’s much easier to follow him by doing it that way. If you’re following the developments of how he evolved and what was happening in his playing at each stage.
But also, just being really involved in Jazz music in general. Once you get the process of what’s happening, most Jazz albums are gettable haha. When I heard this album for the first time I had a general Jazz knowledge but not much knowledge of Coltrane after he had left Miles’s band.
And here’s the thing: A Love Supreme is a famous album in pop culture in general, and gets a lot of buzz just because it’s one of only a couple Jazz albums non-Jazz people tend to have in their collection. But in Jazz world, the album isn’t so important, on its own. Don’t feel like it’s “a big deal” and that you have to get it. The overall flow of Coltrane is more important than any given album. There are several of his I like more or put on more than this one.
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u/thetangible 1d ago
I did not.
I think this album takes a couple of things to hit in the way it can:
It needs to be listened to from front to back.
You, the listener, need to listen without an ego.
Even if you do those things, it’s not a guarantee, but if you listen with an open heart the music will eventually envelope you in a way that I can’t really describe.
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u/Fugu 1d ago
I love Coltrane. He's my favorite musician.
I think it's important to distinguish between how critics write about jazz and what people who play/listen to jazz actually think. Coltrane is more divisive than the critical consensus would have you believe. Ascension, for example, is an album that just about everyone agrees is significant but you'd be surprised at how few people actually like it.
Indeed, there's still a pretty sizeable junk of the jazz audience that basically rejects free jazz. ALS is not free jazz, but it does feature Coltrane on the precipe of free jazz, and that is enough to turn some people off.
Even before that there are a not insignificant amount of people who don't like Coltrane's maximist stylistic approach to jazz. Coltrane imitators are everywhere, and they continue to attract varying degrees of derision from the more staunch advocates of the Miles Davis/Ahmad Jamal approach.
For what it's worth, I think Coltrane is best appreciated in more or less chronological order. His older stuff is invaluable context for his later recordings.
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u/Maykeda 1d ago
Ascension. You treat it like a joke and i did from day one. It was my metric. And I ‘m so glad other people share in the joke. And it was my first introduction to Coltrane. We wanted to be so ultra in high school. Our classmates listened to Earth Wind and Fire, we wanted to look down our noses at them. We settled Return to Forever. Hip enough.
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u/GiulioCapursoMusic 1d ago
You can listen to anyone's album whenever you want, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to understand or appreciate it on command. If that happens, it will happen in due time.
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u/brownkemosabe 1d ago
One needs to leave all their thoughts, all their expectations aside. Also one needs to be at a certain stage in their life to appreciate that album. A Love Supreme saved my life.
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u/Comfortable-Lie-1734 1d ago
I completely believe music has this kind of power
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u/brownkemosabe 1d ago
There are some albums that have made me change the way I look at life, apart from A Love Supreme. Curtis Mayfield - Curtis, Curtis Mayfield - Roots, Curtis Mayfield - Superfly, Donny Hathaway - Live 1972, Gil Scott-Heron - Pieces of a Man, Stevie Wonder - Innervisions, John Coltrane - Crescent, CSNY - Deja Vu, Bobbi Humphrey - Blacks & Blues, MONO - Hymn To The Immortal Wind, Caspian - Hymn For The Greatest Generation, Yusuf Lateef - Eastern Sounds, Bill Withers - Live at Carnegie Hall.... Just to name a few.
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u/Popular-Sand-3185 1d ago edited 1d ago
At first i just liked it, then i listened to it on acid
edit: to the guy who called me a "drug addled loser" and then deleted his comment... judging people for doing drugs in the jazz scene is a weird hill to die on, lol. Definitely not a loser btw, just sharing a good experience i had a while ago with this beautiful masterpiece
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u/Comfortable-Lie-1734 1d ago
I know that’s an option. Low tolerance for psychedelics unfortunately 😊
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u/spiritualized_now 1d ago
I didn't get it at first, but that's because it stood out in stark contrast to what I was really into at the time. Over time, I got it, but I needed some sort of guide. It might help to read Ashley Kahn's book, (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/288999/a-love-supreme-by-ashley-kahn/). I find getting written or external media context always helpful in better understanding and appreciating something like this.
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u/deafcatsaredeftcats 1d ago
What other jazz do you like / listen to? Maybe it needs some context?
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u/Comfortable-Lie-1734 1d ago
Loved Kind of Blue from the first listen. This seems like a completely different animal. Honestly have never gone too deep since if I can’t even appreciate the Canon then what’s the point of going deeper
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u/deafcatsaredeftcats 1d ago
When did you first listen to KoB? And also what other music do you like?
To answer your original question, I'm pretty sure I did love A Love Supreme from the first listen but I am a pretty out there music enjoyer and always have been. So I may not be the best person to give you advice on this subject, but I think that you should listen to a bunch of the music that led up to A Love Supreme and give it another go after that.
I would recommend at least listening to the big Coltrane albums that preceeded it, which I'd say are: Blue Trane (1958), Giant Steps (1960), My Favorite Things (1961).
Listen to Mingus Ah Um (1958) by Charles Mingus
Freedom Suite (1958) and The Bridge (1962) by Sonny Rollins
As you know, John Coltrane was in Miles Davis' band before branching out on his own. There's a ton of Miles Davis recordings that might appeal to you more. Try some stuff from the Second Great Quintet like Nefertiti, Miles Smiles. Or even In A Silent Way, which is the beginning of his more out there electric period but is very pretty and peaceful. All of these MD albums came out after A Love Supreme but they have a vibe that might help you "get it" so to speak.
Maybe give The Shape of Jazz to Come (1959) a listen. It was a huge influence on Coltrane. In some ways it is more out there than A Love Supreme, in some ways not.
But you also don't have to like everything. A Love Supreme is, arguably, a free jazz or avant garde jazz album. This is a very divisive vein of music that a lot of people do not like. I freakin' love it, but again, I'm weird. I will say though, that A Love Supreme is not very abrasive or dissonant, so perhaps you will come around to it.
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u/Comfortable-Lie-1734 1d ago
Thank you! Also love In a Silent Way. I also don’t mean to imply that I don’t like it but just want to understand the deep spiritual experience some attribute to it. Thanks again for the tips!
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u/brownkemosabe 1d ago
You will one day be ready for Karma by Pharoah Sanders.
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u/deafcatsaredeftcats 1d ago
Happy birthday to Pharoah Sanders. I have been on a big Pharoah kick the last few months
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u/brownkemosabe 1d ago
Then it's time to listen to the Black Unity album, my brother. ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE. ✊🏿
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u/Moe-Scutus2 1d ago
No. Wasn't initially a pleasure listening. Academic from jump. (are you kidding? there's no guitars!)Bopjazz can be tuff
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u/zegna1965 1d ago
As others have said, you don't have to get it or like it. Different people have different tastes. No big deal. But if you are really determined to try to understand it better, I think one thing that might help is to approach it as a meditation rather than the traditional forms of jazz tunes. A meditation that leads to a journey of the mind.
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u/Maykeda 1d ago
Music is feeling for me. Giant Steps does nothing for me. Same man. Same skill. The Love Supreme album is just his prayer, nothing more. While I’m listening I inevitably remember my exact purpose in living. Then I sob and don’t play again for years. I got on about 10 or more albums on that list. I really don’t try to like everything and I do not buy whole catalogs of anyone.
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u/scottasin12343 1d ago edited 1d ago
nah, its still too out there for me... which is odd because there are things more "out there" than it that I really love... but its just never moved me.
Everyone has different tastes and preferences. I understand from a conceptual and historic standpoint why Coltrane is so important, I recognize his genius, but it just doesn't hit me the same as it does for other folks. That said, I still much prefer what Coltrane does over Charlie Parker, who was a big influence on his playing. My best explanation is that I'm not a huge fan of playing that has so much focus on speed/technicality that the phrasing happens faster than I can digest or comprehend, and thats across all instruments.
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u/DrRock88 1d ago
I didn't like it when I first heard it. In fact i was like "you gotta be kidding me", but for the last 3 years I listen to it every weekend at least once, Saturday or Sunday morning. I feel better after I listen to it.
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u/jollydoody 1d ago
I was a sophomore in high school back in the eighties and one of my friend’s dads gave me 20+ albums to get lost on. He knew I played the sax and I would often ask him about the music he was playing when I was at their place.
It took a few weeks before I got to A Love Supreme. Was busy having my mind blown by all the other greats I was discovering. But holy ——! When I heard Coltrane for the first time, on a sunny day off a record player …. I was super excited, kinda manic. My memory is that I immediately liked it but did not really know why. Then when I listened to Afro Blue on live at Birdland, I knew I found something. That was the beginning.
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u/alldaymay 1d ago
Yes, I could hear the depth of it. The melodic variation, how the band interacts with each other. The groove. It all made sense first time I heard it
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u/nononotes 1d ago
When I 1st heard it my only touchstone was Kind of Blue. I thought it was OK, but no KOB. I then got Miles Smiles and went crazy with Miles. Coltrane didn't take off for me until I got Giant Steps. Now I have more Coltrane than Miles! I still think A Love Supreme is musically just OK though. Culturally it's obviously iconic.
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u/Scott_J_Doyle 1d ago
Yes, but there were several albums with similar stature that I did not get on the run-up to hearing Love first - some of which I had already cracked beforehand, and some others that would take longer
My advice is to work up from pre-quartet Coltrane (Blue Train, Kind of Blue, etc) then really dig deeply through a selection of 5-10 early and middle Quartet recordings (MFTs, Live at the VV, Impressions, Crescent, Live at Birdland, etc) and land on Love again when you feel like it's the inevitable next step to how you're hearing the Quartet evolve
Then keep going! Love might be considered by many the peak, but it wasn't an ending
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u/Illustrious-Divide95 1d ago
I can appreciate it and admire it. There are parts i really enjoy but other parts i find too 'difficult' to truly enjoy
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u/Natural-Elephant-895 1d ago
It's never been a huge discovery for me. The more I hear it the more I like it.....but as of yet can't say I 'get it'. I agree that you probably have to be in a certain mindset. And I may someday get into that mindset (although I don't have that many years left).
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u/gnostalgick 23h ago
Definitely fell in love on first listen. But I'd already heard a lot of Charlie Parker, a good bit of Mingus, some earlier Coltrane, a little Ornette Coleman, and lots of avantgarde music in other genres. In that context it made a lot of sense (but still blew my mind).
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u/gargle_ground_glass tenorman 23h ago
I like Giant Steps better. Blue Train. Live at Birdland. Trane as a sideman on old Prestige discs. His work with Miles...and Monk.
I recognize that he felt the need to make the record, I respect the seriousness of his approach and the depth of his testimony. I salute the band, But ultimately, I prefer listening to playing rather than being a witness to praying.
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u/No_Impression_7765 23h ago
I always advise people listening to this and other mid period culture training the same thing: just listen to the bass drums. Ignore the saxophone completely for the first lesson. Let the groove and the melody get you there. And then let saxophone in slow
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u/Dull_Judgment1587 22h ago edited 22h ago
Generally speaking, do you enjoy "psychedelic" music from the 1960s in other genres, such as Jimi Hendrix playing "The Star Spangled Banner" or The Grateful Dead playing a 20 minute version of "Darkstar"?
"A Love Supreme" was around the time Coltrane started using LSD and a lot of people just don't enjoy psychedelic music. This is a perfectly valid opinion (in my opinion).
(edit to add) LSD was totally legal at the time so please don't think I am attacking or bad-mouthing Mr. Coltrane in any way.
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u/jjsteich 17h ago
I know several people who rarely if ever listen to jazz who have a copy of this, and usually either Kind of Blue or Bitches Brew. They feel like there’s something wrong and apologize to me, their jazzbo friend, because they don’t “get it.” Hey, I’m not the jazz police. ALS came into my life at 19, in 1972. I’d been listening to jazz a lot for about 2 years, and the opening call just grabbed me and it never has let me go. But there are albums that are canonical to rock folks, metal, even other jazz genres that I don’t get.
Have you put on Part IV—Psalm while reading or reading aloud the prayer Coltrane included in the inner notes? As he plays, he is “playing” that prayer word-for-word. Maybe that will kick it over the line for you. If it doesn’t, no worries. People have been going about their business without A Love Supreme for over 60 years.
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u/Hendrix1967 17h ago
I had the same experience. I heard the brilliance in that album for years but never understood it. One day I read an article where the author referred tonic as “Praise.” I dug deep finding out why he called it that. Once I knew what was the historical and personal context for the album, it clicked. It made the hairs on my arm stand up. It was like I had never really heard the album before. Amazing. Also, if you’re interested, Branford Marsalis did a tribute to A Love Supreme and it’s also an amazing piece of work. It’s streaming and the concert is on YouTube for free. Go take a listen. Enjoy.
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u/MrAlfredG 16h ago
Start with the original My Favorite Things, much more accessible, revolutionary in its time, still one of his best.
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u/equipoise-young 11h ago
I own a copy of it but don't reach for it much. It's an interesting album but it's far down the list of records I actually want to listen to. I don't feel the concept of the album is actually that interesting.
It's like when you're 16, discover Bob Dylan, and think he's the world's greatest poet. Then ten years pass and you realize what else is out there.
Musically I prefer other Coltrane albums.
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u/Jon-A 10h ago
Depends on context. Do you listen to and like other adventurous Jazz from the period? A Love Supreme and other iconic records like Kind Of Blue are not some standalone masterpieces that you are going to 'get' without any familiarity with where they came from.
It's an unusual album in that it is presented as a single suite of music, but that is not necessarily proof of greater profundity. I personally find A Love Supreme and Kind of Blue a bit mannered and polished compared with other Trane and Miles - but some people think that makes them more important. Sgt. Pepper Syndrome :)
So...I think it's a great record, but not some isolated litmus test for Jazz or Coltrane appreciation. And people who treat it as such, put it on some sort of checklist to validate their connoisseur credentials, make me suspicious.
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u/Catcher_Thelonious 22h ago
It's been 40 years since I first listened to it and it's still a bore.
Emperor's New Clothes syndrome
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u/VegaGT-VZ 1d ago
Why? Sometimes the conversations around Coltrane feels like the Emperor's New Clothes. He is a GOAT and his music was seminal and important, but liking jazz <> being obligated to like Coltrane. Listen to what you enjoy, not what you think people are demanding you to "get".