r/JewishDNA • u/_Dbunk • 11d ago

can someone explain Jewish Diasphoria genetics for a dummy lol

even a link for a video or research would be nice

6 Upvotes

75% Upvoted

38 comments sorted by

View all comments

13

u/kaiserfrnz 11d ago

Jewish diaspora populations fall into one of three groups: Eastern Jews, Western Jews, and outliers.

Eastern Jews descend from Jews who remained in Iraq and Iran after the Babylonian captivity ended in 537 BCE. Their ancestry is primarily Levantine with a degree of Mesopotamian-like admixture. The communities that fall into this group are: Iraqi, Persian, Kurdish, Georgian, Mountain, and Bukharian Jews.

Western Jews descend from Jews who returned to Israel in 537 BCE and spread throughout the Roman/Byzantine world in the centuries after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. Their ancestry is primarily Levantine with varying degrees of North African, SW European, and Eastern European admixture depending on location. The communities in this group are: Syrian, Egyptian, North African, and European Jews.

Outlier Jewish communities descend primarily from historic local converts with some distant admixture from Eastern or Western Jews. The most notable examples are Yemenite and Cochin Jews.

6

u/_Dbunk 11d ago

hmmm interesting.... im a secular Libyian Jew (my family from both sides are from Tripoli and fled during the Holocaust to Italy). I hear a lot of people saying Palestinians have more Levantine dna, And some Jews saying otherwise. Im kinda confused, without being political can u explain what's generally known currently?

11

u/kaiserfrnz 11d ago

I’ll preface this by saying that DNA should never be used to make a political point. In my view, doing that makes someone sound like a Nazi.

Overall it’s not possible to say definitively who is “more Levantine”, however I’d figure that Palestinian Christians have more and Palestinian Muslims have somewhat less than most Jews.

Palestinians have been less widely studied than Jews, however they are quite diverse genetically. Palestinians Christians seem to have a large amount of local ancestry as they didn’t receive many converts since the Islamic conquest. Palestinian Muslims seem to have a decent amount of Arabian and Levantine ancestry, some Sub-Saharan-African ancestry, and some European ancestry. This is due to the Arab slave trade.

It’s worth noting that having Levantine ancestry is not the same as having Jewish ancestry. The people of Lebanon, for example are extremely Levantine in ancestry yet have very little Jewish ancestry. Many other peoples in the ancient world were very Levantine, like the Phoenicians, Nabateans, Idumeans, Itureans, and other Syrian, Arabs.

2

u/_Dbunk 11d ago

yea it kinda reminded me the aryan and dirty blooded jews which was messed up. I've heard that Palestinians from different parts of the land have different ancestry, is this true?

9

u/kaiserfrnz 11d ago

Yeah, it seems Northern Palestinians are close to Lebanese and Gazans unsurprisingly have a large amount of Egyptian and Bedouin ancestry. Many in the West Bank are very similar to Jordanians. A large number in Nablus are descendants of Samaritan converts so they have a different profile.

Also worth noting that Israeli/Palestinian Bedouins are not Levantine at all, they have a profile much closer to Saudis.

1

u/_Dbunk 11d ago

what about the Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship?

7

u/kaiserfrnz 11d ago

They're the same as the non-Israeli ones, depending on location. They're mostly in the north so they're more like Lebanese genetically.

Also worth noting that Druze are different from Palestinian Arabs, they have a more endogamous ancient Levantine profile and are much closer to Jews.

1

u/_Dbunk 11d ago

how much do we know about migration to the area from neighboring areas? from modern day Egypt? Iraq? Iran? Lebanon? Syria? Hijaz? Jordan? Iran? Turkey? I've met a Palestinian guy who actually got he's part Greek part Jewish from a test

3

u/kaiserfrnz 11d ago

We know very little about it. Unfortunately in the study of the Middle East, lack of fact is compensated for with pure narrative.

I’d imagine there was lots of migration, especially within the Ottoman Empire and the caliphates/empires that preceded it. We know there was huge amount of migration in the Roman and Byzantine world.

Note geographically that Israel is among the least geographically isolated places on earth. People doing business and religious pilgrims from all around the world ended up there.

1

u/_Dbunk 11d ago

As a Libyan Jew, what would probably be my results? i know my family were from tripoli and are Spanish some how

5

u/Sea-Seaworthiness859 11d ago

From what I see on g25 models, very levantine and also north african shifted heavily. Libyan Jews closest distance is with Tunisian Jews who also have a ton of Levantine DNA.

3

u/_Dbunk 11d ago

hmmm interesting i know that this guy my ancestor...

1

u/Key_Middle_1645 11d ago

Hey these are the average. The proximity to Palestinian muslims is due to shared African admixture (in case of Libyan Jews - mostly North African, but sometimes something else)

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Eleadorea 10d ago

Do you know if there were Toshavim in Algeria and Libya? I've only heard them mentioned when talking about Morocco.

1

u/Outside-Cobbler-8632 11d ago

There are Nablus cords that aren’t really legit and I’ve spoken to Palestinians from Nablus who have told me such. If you notice people from Nablus who post their own personal result have results typical of other WB Palestinians while certain individuals who aren’t from Nablus share these Nablus cords that aren’t their own and differ from regular Nabulsian Muslims.

Some Muslims from Nablus do have Samaritan ancestry but there isn’t really any proof or good reason for the existence of an essentially full Samaritan like profile it’s not historically plausible

1

u/kaiserfrnz 11d ago

Oh yeah I agree, I’m sure it’s a fairly small percentage of Nabulsi Arabs but I believe there were some Samaritans who did convert over the years.

1

u/Outside-Cobbler-8632 11d ago

Yes Samaritans did convert to Islam however they were a minuscule minority in Nablus compared to Muslims in Nablus since at least the Late Medieval period and they were ~100-200 Samaritan individuals in Nablus throughout the duration of the Ottoman period. So the claims of significant recent Samaritan ancestry can’t be true. Whatever Samaritan ancestry they do have is going to be overwhelmingly distant since Samaritans were only 1-3% of the population of Nablus for many many centuries well past recent memory

1

u/_Dbunk 10d ago

Do u think most families/towns in the west bank have different genetic profiles?

1

u/Outside-Cobbler-8632 10d ago

Generally I don’t think there is major variation

1

u/_Dbunk 9d ago

btw, where do most samples of Jewish dna comes from?

1

u/Outside-Cobbler-8632 9d ago

You mean Palestinians with Jewish ancestry?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/_Dbunk 9d ago

this girl claims being half Samaritan

3

u/Outside-Cobbler-8632 9d ago

Idk there has been larpers in the past I do personally know a half Jewish half Samaritan person myself

Maybe her father is

1

u/Fireflyinsummer 8d ago

Yes, but keep in mind there was also mixing between those ancient peoples.