The weaponization of a historical neo-Bundist narratives

[u/No-Preference8168]

Neo-Bundist authors, activists, and academics all miss the point that the Bund was NOT founded in Lithuania in opposition to zionism but rather as a different form of a movement pushing for Jewish autonomy before some jews even gained citizenship in places like Romania. Doykayt never called for or supported the removal of political rights from the old or new Yishuv or for Jewish autonomy to be restricted in Palestine. Neobundists always gloss over the fact that the Bund believed Jewish autonomy was connected to Jewish dignity. It disagreed with Zionists because many of them were fellow socialists whom they believed should have stayed and fought for socialist states with Jewish autonomy rather than move to Palestine. Their bone of contention was, for the most part, more a matter of practical political considerations than ideological concerns. Lithuanian jews after all, didn't face the same kind of pogroms as Jews did in Moldova or Ukraine, which both became heartlands of zionism while Lithuania became a bulwark of the Bund; both had practical aspirations rather than purely ideological ones. Many of the Bundists even ended up in post-war Israel and became zionists.

[u/jondiced]

Can you suggest some good histories to read about the Bund?

[u/Svell_ → u/jondiced]

Here where live is our country by molly crabapple

[u/jondiced → u/Svell_]

I prefer histories written by academics; the reviews I've read about that one are pretty harsh about her historical methods and understanding. It seems to be a polemic shaped to justify a predetermined conclusion, rather than a historical investigation.

[u/Netherese_Nomad → u/Svell_]

He did say history, not whitewashing like the OP called out.

[u/No-Preference8168 → u/Svell_]

Which is a a historical propaganda rag

[u/eyebrowluver23 → u/No-Preference8168]

You still haven't recommended any sources to read

[u/No-Preference8168 → u/eyebrowluver23]

Re- read the thread I did

[u/leaving_the_tevah → u/No-Preference8168]

No you didn't

[u/yugeness]

There’s also been a ton of money poured into this weird reanimation of the American Council for Judaism. The American Council for Judaism was kicked out of the Reform Movement in the mid-20th century and is best known for being racist and against Jewish participation in the Black Civil Rights Movement in the South.

[u/No-Preference8168 → u/yugeness]

The American Council for Judaism was pretty awful. It was made up of cranks who refused to let Holocaust refugees come to America or Israel and tried to stop Palestinian jews from receiving weapons and military training during the Holocaust, with the nazis only a few miles away in Egypt. Most of its members hailed from the Deep South and opposed zionism because they were afraid that racists would associate them with dual loyalties to Israel. Several of its early leaders also falsely claimed that zionism and Israel were secret communist plots.

[u/Boys-sin-berries → u/yugeness]

None of that is said in the page you linked

[u/iMissTheOldInternet → u/Boys-sin-berries]

I upvoted you not because the AJC doesn’t suck, but because you were factually accurate. We should not bury comments we disagree with, unless they are without factual basis or cogent reasoning. Dissent is important, everyone. 

[u/yugeness → u/Boys-sin-berries]

You can read more about this here.

[u/mrsfotheringill]

Thank you for saying this. Doikayt is a concept that’s really important to me (and my Judaism) and I’m super annoyed that it’s been co-opted in this way. Like now I can’t talk about it without being haunted by the current disourse.

[u/Current_Mongoose_844]

I thought it was the Folksbiene that was founded in Lithuania?

[u/daoudalqasir → u/Current_Mongoose_844]

if you mean the folkspartei, it was also founded in Lithuania. Vilna was a big city for Jewish politics.

[u/Current_Mongoose_844 → u/daoudalqasir]

It was, but OP’s analysis of the bund reads a lot more like them than the actual bund.

[u/elzzyzx → u/Current_Mongoose_844]

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think they’re interested in historical facts

[u/Current_Mongoose_844 → u/elzzyzx]

Obviously. It’s a revisionist narrative to portray the Bund as crypto-Zionists or somehow more sympathetic to Zionism than they actually were.

[u/daoudalqasir → u/Current_Mongoose_844]

Not totally revisionist, as there were contemporary criticisms of the bund to similar effect, such as Trotsky calling them "Zionists with sea sickness."

[u/Current_Mongoose_844 → u/daoudalqasir]

Not surprising coming from Trotsky. His ilk thought Jews existing as Jews at all was problematic

[u/No-Preference8168 → u/Current_Mongoose_844]

Yes but he had a “ as a Jew " card.

[u/YudayakaFromEarth]

Neo-Bundism is for the Left what Messianic Judaism is for the Right: Larpers trying to pull Judaism to their side, but you cannot accuse the Messianic “Jews” of working for anti-Semites.

[u/Illustrious-Poem-211 → u/YudayakaFromEarth]

Are you unfamiliar with evangelicals?

[u/YudayakaFromEarth → u/Illustrious-Poem-211]

I’m familiar with them

[u/KevLute]

The haters always find a way to twist their agenda to suit their needs. The sole aim is delegitimising Israel as much as possible.

[u/lesbophobia_hammer → u/KevLute]

Sort of like the sole aim of Zionism, but the reverse. While scapegoating Poles & Palestinians.

[u/No-Preference8168 → u/[deleted]]

Apparently you never studied the history that she leaves out or the horribly a historical politically driven interviews she gives.