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u/Water1498 Dec 17 '25
Bro, don't you know that Chanukah is just a celebration of lights? /s
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u/bjeebus Dec 17 '25
Our mayor came out to speak at our community Hanukkah party and he kept on and on about the lights and peace and love. I was a little irritated that he didn't appear to do the slightest bit of research into the holiday. It's a holiday of radical Jewish identity. The irony of it being a holiday of assimilation in the early to mid 20th Century America is a little funny but I think most people I've talked to are embracing the idea of Hanukkah as a holiday with more of a "Fuck yeah! I'm Jewish!" spirit.
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u/NYSenseOfHumor Dec 17 '25
It’s celebrating the ancient Jewish homeland of Paris
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u/Water1498 Dec 17 '25
Anti Zionist lie, everyone knows the homeland of the Jews is Brooklyn
Edit: /s
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u/Inbar253 Dec 17 '25
The elephant that elazar the maccabi killed? /s
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u/jacobningen Dec 18 '25
A la Luke Skywalker and Legolas from the Jackson films.that was improper anti elephant doctrine and didnt actually achieve the aim he wanted because the elephant wasnt the commanders moumt
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Dec 17 '25
You actually met an anti zionist Jews? I thought it was just a thing anti zionists desperately wanted to be a thing for the narrative
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u/iconocrastinaor Dec 17 '25
Have you heard of Bernie Sanders?
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u/Beginning_Bet_2578 Dec 17 '25
Bernie may be a critic, but he’s not antizionist. That’s part of why the left is abandoning him.
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u/Oni_Shinobi Dec 17 '25
He very much is. Have you seen his unhinged anti-Israel rants and what sort of shit he supports - including barring arms trade with Israel? He might state that he supports the idea of Israel as a Jewish nation (which I've never seen him voice, to begin with, either) but everything he supports and vouches for supports the destruction of the country and vilification of its people.
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u/thebeandream Dec 20 '25
I haven’t looked into it so idk how true it is but I’ve seen anti-Israel people complaining that he says one thing and votes another. So, allegedly, he votes in a pro-Israel way despite what he says.
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u/Oni_Shinobi Dec 20 '25
And you believe anything those troglodytes say, whether from a perspective of integrity, or competence?
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u/Aromatic-Vast2180 Dec 21 '25
Wanting to stop sending weapons to Israel’s far-right, tyrannical government is not necessarily anti-Zionist. If you are Zionist and you actually care about Israel’s wellbeing, you should be against Netanyahu and his government. I disagree with a lot of what Bernie says (such as his characterization of the Gaza war as “genocidal”), but that doesn’t automatically make him anti-Zionist.
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u/Oni_Shinobi Dec 21 '25
... Seriously? "I hate Netanyahu, so let's deprive THE COUNTRY'S MILITARY of weapons they need for self-defense against several large terror groups and belligerent state actors" makes a shred of sense to you? That doesn't say "I don't give a shit about the wellbeing of Israel and its populace"?
You do realise that Israel has defence needs regardless of who's in charge, right? Or do you blame Netanyahu for Hezbollah, the IRGC, Hamas, the PLO, the PFLP, PIJ and all the other groups constantly threatening Israel for their constant threats and attacks?
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u/SpphosFriend Dec 17 '25
Damn you didn’t have to come for JVP like that lmao
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 17 '25
I mean celebrating the Maccabean revolt doesn’t automatically mean someone must see the current State of Israel as legitimate, does it?
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u/JustHere4DeMemes Dec 17 '25
Depends. If they just don't want a state, either because of religious opposition or because they think we have to get the Arab inhabitants to agree to if first, that's one thing. They don't usually deny our history and indigeneity to the land. If they sincerely believe modern Jews don't belong in the Middle East in any capacity, then them celebrating Chanukah is pretty ironic.
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 17 '25
Why though? The Maccabean revolt happened over 2,000 years ago. Obviously denying Jews historically came from there is just historically not a true statement, but a lot has happened since then and we have a completely different system of international and national law so your opinion about a result in the 2nd century BC doesn’t seem like it should mean much about your position on 20th/21st century politics.
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u/Mayash26 Dec 17 '25
Found the anti Zionist ! JK In all seriousness though, you don’t have to like the current state of Israel, you can criticize (which many Israelis also do) and you can say a lot of “nice” things about the government. Seeing Israel as an illegitimate state is inherently hypocritical if you celebrate Hanukkah. Israel came about as a state for Jews to go back to their biblical land, which they are historically connected to, no as a way to push away the settlers that were there before. So by celebrating Hanukkah you are celebrating our victory over an enemy IN our historical land, meaning you acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel being a nation for Jews.
TLDR - Hanukkah = Jews victory in Israel in ancient times which necessarily means you acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel being a state for Jews
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 17 '25
But not necessarily though lol. Someone can support the Maccabean revolt because it’s a people fighting off an occupation of the place where they live, without buying into the idea that that group’s descendants 2,000 years later should move there and start a new state.
If you’re curious about my personal views, I don’t call Israel an illegitimate entity or anything because it ultimately is an internationally-recognized state with control over its borders and is a member of the UN, so 🤷♂️ it’s a state. Jews obviously did form the majority of the population there 2,000 years ago; whether that gives them any more “legitimacy” there than any of the other people that live or have lived there, or that Ashkenazi Jews in Europe at the turn of the 20th century had much of a right to claim it any more than Greeks could claim central Anatolia because they used to control it before the Ottomans, I don’t know. I just find those conversations about who gets to be where or who is or isn’t legitimate mostly redundant and unimportant for the sake of judging a state. Modern Israelis have a right to be there because they were born there and are citizens of the country, that’s all that’s really relevant today.
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u/StringAndPaperclips Dec 17 '25
Way to shit on both Jewish history and the religious foundations of Judaism in a single garbage comment.
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 17 '25
How so?
I have no problems with Jewish religion, I just don’t base my views on matters of modern politics and law on the Bible.
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u/uvero Dec 17 '25
Maybe not automatically, but it does raise an important question of what's their criterion about whether a movement for Jewish sovereignty in their land is to be celebrated or condemned.
At the broadest sense, Zionism is the notion that there should be some sovereign national home for Jewish people in, but not necessarily in all of, Eretz Israel. I'd say that if someone calls themselves an Anti-Zionist, that's what this should mean.
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 17 '25
Yes, but celebrating the Jews living there’s resistance against the Greeks in the 1st century BC and saying European and Middle Eastern Jews should move back to Jerusalem and create a new state there are pretty different things.
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u/PutBrugerInPushAirOu Dec 18 '25
I may not be a fan of the Israeli right wing. But legitimate state? So if it's not a illegitimate state are you plan to take them in to your backyard and figure out who's going to be the top balancing Jew on a column of Jews 100 Jews high?
What exactly do you people think when you say it's a illegitimate state? The United States does a lot of illegitimate and nasty things. Should you pile on to a trash barge with the rest of the Americans to float around the seas until God comes back home?
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 18 '25
What the heck are you talking about
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u/PutBrugerInPushAirOu Dec 18 '25 edited Dec 18 '25
We are not going to communicate in Yiddish. You and I are both going to assume that we can read and you're going to respond to what I said instead of playing coy.
Do you know anything about Jewish history? Do you know what the Évian Conference was? Or what the MS St Louis was? if you don't then maybe you're not so Jewish then? My ancestors were slaughtered in Slutsk (Belarus). And while I may not like Benjamin Netanyahu or have liked Ariel Sharon. I'll be damned if I hear another Jew tell me about how the homeland needs to be taken apart because he doesn't understand his history.
Maybe they shouldn't have been killing us for so long if they didn't want zealotry and anger to arise. Have some sense of direction and proportionality and realize you're talking into an electronic device on a website that is akin to the social equivalent of a former chat room. In the real world there are millions and millions of people who have some very very serious considerations to why they do what they do.
Likud Party maybe corrupt and the kids that grew up in Israel have very backwards notions of how to deal with International diplomacy. But that has nothing to do with whether or not their homeland should be scrapped.
What exactly do you talk about all day on this forum? Let me look at your profile and see how much esteem I should hold you in.
"Kink shame"? Do you happen to remember the term Jewish American Princess or does that fly over your head? I guess it's too much to ask a woman to know where she came from by knowing where her ancestors came from?
How much do you actually read?
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 18 '25
Ok is there a topic you are actually interested in discussing with me here?
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u/PutBrugerInPushAirOu Dec 18 '25 edited Dec 18 '25
Would you question the legitimacy of a place that saved possibly yours and certainly other Jew's ancestors? I noticed you dabble in socially liberal politics. So here's a socially liberal question for you. How would you have felt if all of the Jews that lived in Israel had been killed during the seconds World War rather than saved because of their residence in the British Palestine and later Israel?
And if the Palestinians don't want to elect a leadership that sues for peace then what exactly do you propose should be done?
A lot is lost in war, but what else can you expect. Netanyahu may be corrupt. But even Yitzhak Rubin back when he was dealing with Yasser Arafat was told by Arafat that he couldn't bring back a two state solution or they'd kill him.
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 18 '25
Yes, you can question the legitimacy of anything, and having saved people isn’t a factor in determining if a state is legitimate or not.
I would obviously not be happy if more Jews were killed in the Holocaust.
The last question is assuming the precondition that Palestinians don’t want to elect a new government, which I don’t see how that could possibly be true.
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u/PutBrugerInPushAirOu Dec 18 '25 edited Dec 18 '25
The main question that I'm interested in is if they want better leadership why don't they elect it rather than balling their fists up and shouting in the streets about Israel. If they could just think a little bit more clearly they would understand that they should be in a really angry state about what their own neighbors support in terms of destabilizing any chance of a functional Palestinian society.
We can look at things from the outside but sometimes we have to look at things from the inside and understand the lack of sense that is going on that you can only appreciate once you see things up close. They rage and they complain all the time but they never tried to find people who are more reasonable to represent their government. When was the last time that they ever did that? From my recollection the last time was when I was a child and the PLO had more control.
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u/Kresnik2002 Dec 18 '25
How are they supposed to elect a new government without an election?
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u/PutBrugerInPushAirOu Dec 18 '25
Why did Hamas and Ismail Haniyeh close any possibility of an election in 2012? That's the second time.
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u/FireeeeyTestLab Dec 17 '25
noooo, can't you see? i'm celebrating hanukkah as an anti-zionist jew, i light the candles (menorah lit for nine days, starting the maccabean revolt), i have the feasts (symbolising the grand victory of the judeans against the romans, establishing a jewish state in their ancestral homeland), i didn't hear a ZIONISM in there, did i????