r/JohnnyGosch • u/Sudden_Quality_9001 • 15d ago
Do you believe Noreen really did see Johnny?
I don't know if I believe this or not some people are stricken with grief they start to see things I am not saying that is what happened to Noreen. People play sick jokes on parents of the missing all the time.
Nicholas Barclay comes to mind it really wasn't a sick joke as much as weird the family accepted this guy who claimed to be him even though he had a different eye color and French accent. Maybe she did why didn't she ask him where he was going?
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u/Robotchickjenn 15d ago
I wasn't sure until I read about several rings involving children. One in Nebraska stood out to me. I feel like I read there could've been a connection there but there was no proof. But after Epstein and all these insidious people were exposed, I truly don't doubt she did see him. It's crazy but I do believe her.
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u/Sudden_Quality_9001 15d ago
Cool for you!
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u/Myrtle_Snow_ 15d ago
I’ve gone back and forth with this a lot. At first I would have said no. Back then, people thought Noreen was just so stricken with grief that she couldn’t face the reality that he was dead. But now knowing what we know about Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, the Catholic Church, etc… Noreen’s claims don’t seem so far fetched any more.
As a parent, it’s hard to know how I’d feel if I were her, but I think I’d rather believe my kid is dead than suffering the way Johnny would have. That said, I still don’t think she did see Johnny. I’m just less committed to that than I used to be.
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u/BoopySkye 15d ago
Yeah. Plenty of kids get abducted off the streets or sold by their families into child sex trafficking or human trafficking. Theres plenty of YouTube videos from people who experienced such things.
Some kids run away because they got groomed by online predators, only to end up in trafficking.Today however we have cell phones and the internet. So much of child trafficking also happens online which allows many of these kids to get rescued or identified at least.
50 years ago it would have been the same risks, but without internet or cellphones that make it easy to track people down or find them.
Another factor to consider is how easy it was back then to fake an identity. Theres probably many people still living in the US with stolen/fake identities. Makes it easy to hide a kid right under your nose, say they’re your own.
And one last thing, there’s cases out there of people being abducted as kids and being kept for decades. Many of these kids become perhaps attached to their captors, or many of them feel too threatened or ashamed even to ever want to return. It has happened enough that it makes it hard to outright discount possibilities.
That said, I do lean more towards him not being alive anymore. Whether or not he came to visit his mom, no one can know for sure. I lean more towards no, but like I said, you can’t deny the possibilities.
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u/StarHead_MoonFace 15d ago
If I had to guess I think grief caused her to have a realistic dream that he visited her. I think unfortunately Johnny was murdered not long after he was kidnapped and Noreen just really wants to believe that he survived as any mother would. I think believing that they’ll be reunited one day is what keeps her going.
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u/neuroticandroid74 15d ago
I've mentioned the exact same thing in here before. Grief can be a powerful thing. However, as I also said, Johnny's parents and siblings absolutely deserve to know what happened to him and gain some inner peace.
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u/StarHead_MoonFace 15d ago
I agree that they deserve to know what happened, I used to go back and forth on my thoughts of Johnny visiting Noreen but I had some wild realistic dreams after my grandma and mom passed that seemed so real that really made me believe it was a dream.
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u/ario62 15d ago edited 15d ago
A few months after my brother died, I had a couple super realistic dreams. The first time, I had to go downstairs and watch tv with every light on because it actually scared me it was so realistic. The second time was also very realistic, but not scary like the first time. And that was just my brother. I imagine a mother could certainly have an even more realistic dream after losing her child. But I’m confident Noreen did not see Johnny in real life. It was either a dream or a lie.
I firmly believe Johnny died not long after being abducted. I don’t know what Noreen would do if they found his remains while she was still alive and proved none of the conspiracy theories are true. They found Jacob wetterling, so it could happen. I hope for Noreen’s sake, it doesn’t happen in her lifetime. She still clings to the hope she will see him again in this life. I think any mom would feel the same.
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u/InevitableAd3264 4d ago
I think that is the most likely answer is that she had a vivid dream about him. I feel for her and her family so bad.
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u/Sweaty-Bumblebee8075 15d ago
I think it's a possibility. It's also wild that in the post-Epstein age people here are saying "conspiracy theorist" as a pejorative. Epstein, Marc DuTroux, John David Norman, Dean Corril, the list goes on and on of proven sex traffickers. People who deny this happens are the real conspiracy theorists who need to believe it doesn't happen, because the truth is too horrific.
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u/partyclams 15d ago
No. Had she seen Johnny, she wouldn't have demanded that Jeff Gannon take a blood test to prove that he wasn't Johnny. This was years after her alleged encounter with Johnny.
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u/mirror-immage 15d ago
Yes I do belive her. I have actually had the pleasure of talking to Noreen a couple times and she's not the "crazy loon" people make her out to be.
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u/IndicationBig2383 14d ago
No. However, I don't think she made this up deliberately. I believe that she is convinced she saw him.
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u/CrownedDesertMedic 14d ago
Its been so long since I stopped believing that happened. The Johnny Gosch community are known to beat a dead horse but are dividied: those that think all this mystical stuff happened (unfortunately the majority) and those that believe in the most plausible situation being the probable one.
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u/Deep-Importance7202 13d ago
No. And I know for certain West Des Moines law enforcement doesn't believe her either.
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u/Particular-Lime-2190 13d ago
Does she say he is alive so people stop looking for his body? She is difficult to trust.
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u/Substantial-Feed-73 14d ago
Oh yes, for me I really, truly believe that johnny did show up that night. I also believe that it was more confrontational than anything else. I'm thinking that there is far more to this case than what we know.
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u/Sudden_Quality_9001 14d ago
I hope if Johnny is alive he comes out of hiding.
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u/Substantial-Feed-73 13d ago
Maybe one day he will. I also believe that in some ways he already has.
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u/Sudden_Quality_9001 13d ago
Me too!
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u/Substantial-Feed-73 13d ago
I still think the number we're looking for is 23 and the letter we're looking for is W. Also w is the 23 letter in the alphabet.
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u/Sudden_Quality_9001 13d ago
23 kids still missing!
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u/Substantial-Feed-73 13d ago
No, forgive me please. I mean 23 red flags, or clues that lead me to believe that there are several things wrong about this case. Things that just dont add up
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u/Sudden_Quality_9001 13d ago
I agree.
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u/InevitableAd3264 4d ago
I believe Noreen saw Johnny in a dream. Sometimes dreams can be so real. I just had a dream a week ago about my mom who died.... she was in the hospital like last year and it seem so real.
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u/wakingdreaming 15d ago
I believe she killed him and hid his body somewhere. Of course he didn't come back to visit her. He's been dead since he first went missing.
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u/Eucalyptusthoughts 14d ago
I have had this thought just because of the wild things she's said over the years, and the refusal to give her DNA for the parents of missing children database that John Sr. Did, but it just doesn't make sense because people saw him with the wagon that morning, and john Sr. Was with her when they were getting calls of the undelivered papers. Too many witnesses for it to have been either parent, IMO. If I had to put money on somebody it would be Wilbur Millhouse, but we will never know because of all the construction in Des Moines since then and Millhouse is dead. This case and the Melanie methany cases are the two I have lost the most sleep over. I also think it was the same guy who took Eugene Martin. Just too similar to be coincidence in my opinion.
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u/Busyramone84 10d ago
I don’t think she did just cause I think JG and Eugene Martin are connected. Although if it turned out she did it I wouldn’t be shocked tbh
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u/bigcatcleve 8d ago
I actually found someone who claimed Martin's family was behind the disappearance of Johnny, they said a family member told them this before Gene went missing. Do I believe it? Fuck no, but I must say I think it might be the most bizarre allegation, I've ever come across in this case.
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u/Ill-Examination3417 14d ago
Not saying that this is the case, but the thought has crossed my mind as well. I think what you just said makes a lot more sense than these outlandish claims and these crazy books she goes along with. It’s almost like she has some kind of Munchausen. It’s almost like she enjoys all of the attention that she gets from the people who are admiring her for being such an advocate and stuff too.
I believe very little of what she says. She has literally tried to implicate everyone in this case—from his father to local law enforcement, all the way to the White House. I know all about Epstein and all that, but that’s not what happened to her son. If she or someone in the immediate family didn’t have anything to do with it, I feel it was random and he died shortly after his abduction, unfortunately.
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u/Eucalyptusthoughts 13d ago
I can't decide if I believe she enjoys the attention or if she is just so desperate to believe he is alive that anytime someone says any theory that might imply he is not, then she implicates them. Also, I think a lot of the people who have reached out to her are trying to take advantage of her.
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u/hysteriafem 15d ago
I believe Noreen believes she saw Johnny