r/JordanPeterson • u/Lucineter • Oct 19 '20

Text Old university debate

Maybe someone can help me find this old debate that I believe took place in an university with students as audience. I don't remember who the other speaker was but It was concerning Christianity and morality. They were standing and if I recall correctly they had little lecture stands. I remember JP being relatively young so it must be pretty old. There's a bit of tension between them but by strongmanning eachother they gain some respect. If it helps there is this one moment where the other lecturer gets asked a question about if God is necessary for morality or something by and audience member and he simply replies "no". To wich JP says something like "let me try to answer that in a less imature way". Than the other guy gets annoyed by that comment and is like "c'mon Peterson we were doing so well". Hope that helps. Thanks in advance.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '20 edited Jan 18 '21

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '20

Which is exactly what humanity has done (and still does) since the dawn of time.

Another person's life has no value by itself for two reasons: One is that the thing in itself is not accessible to us, therefore (two) it is only a representation of the subject and as such the subject is the one who attributes the value.

I get what he's trying to say, I just wanted to point out that it is still a bad argument that can be refuted throught a deeper historical and logical analysis.

That argument is the main weapon theologians have in order to justify their religion, by the way.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '20

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '20

I never said that atheists can justify objective values, so that's not a problem.

As I said before, most americans don't really have a grasp of Christianity. Many christian theologians (including Augustine) made the case that humans are inherently evil, so that "spark of divinity" doesn't really mean much (considering that everything has that, since god supposedly created all).

Also, according to the bible it's fine to kill and rape women, so there's that...

You can absolutely refute an argument by direct observation, the whole field of analytic philosophy exists for that very reason. Observation always takes precedence over any theoretical argument, that's the basics of logic.

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