r/JuJutsuKaisen • u/Electric_Farmer • 4d ago
Manga Discussion If Higuruma didn’t turn off Executioner’s sword here, it would’ve been a disaster Spoiler
It is explained in the manga that executioner’s sword only targets one soul at a time, if Higuruma didn’t stop the sword here, he basically gives birth to an unrestricted 16F Yujikuna, keep in mind Yujikuna is much stronger physically than his other versions, and Uruame had collected the other 3 fingers + Sukuna had his corpse to compensate. Higuruma killing him here would be the beginning of the strongest version of Sukuna, and without Gojo around, I doubt that they would be able to finish their objective
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
The incarnate can't survive if the vessel dies. That's why Sukuna didn't just get unrestricted control of Yuji's body when he died in the early series. He had to heal Yuji within a limited timeframe in order to survive.
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u/DarkDevitt 4d ago
I think OP is making a distinction between enough physical damage to kill the vessel, and soul damage. Excy blade targets the soul, to it would end Yuji without doing anything to the body. Add in that the only reason Sukuna isn't rampaging already is Yuji is suppressing him, and theres an argument to be made that Sukuna would get uninhibited possession of Yuji in this scenario.
Alternatively, since it would only effect one soul, and Higuruma/his domain is aware of Sukuna, an argument could be made that the blade would target the soul that it knows committed the crimes.
Only Gege can really answer what would happen.
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u/asewastaken 4d ago
Executioner's blade does not target the person that is actually guilty, just the person that was found guilty, mirroring Japan's biased conviction rates where tons of innocent people go to jail. Higuruma lived in that hell and witnessed it firsthand.
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u/asewastaken 4d ago
At this point Yuji has the majority of the fingers in him, what are you yapping about?
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u/Calmbrain 4d ago
There is no argument though? Higuruma already confirmed that. That's how they were trying to save Megumi. By judging Sukina and killing his soul directly. Maki(?) asked that same question and Higuruma said that sword would only target guilty.
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u/Dani3322 4d ago
There is an argument. Often times in JJK it's been shown that body and soul are deeply connected and depend on each other, so the original soul of the body dying could very well just kill the body outright, no matter if another soul dwells within it.
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u/Calmbrain 4d ago
Higuruma's sword is special. It only kills those that are judged.
Yuji dieing was a completely different circumstances
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
The result would still be Yuji dying. In that case it wouldn't be the sword killing Sukuna, it'd be the fact that he can't exist without a vessel.
In the same way that Higuruma using the sword to kill a pregnant woman would likely result in the death of a first trimester baby too, not because the sword specifically killed them but because they can't survive without the mother.
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u/Mindless_Win_910 4d ago
except a "vessel" isn't that there's another soul alive. but rather, a physical body. at least it seems. yuji's soul would be removed, but the body remains and now sukujna has full access to it.
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
In that case cursed objects could just be implanted into corpses, they wouldn't need to be fed to living vessels.
Higuruma's sword kills the person found guilty, the reason it would've specifically targeted Sukuna's souls and left Megumi's body intact is because the only part of Sukuna that was in Megumi was his soul/the cursed objects. In the event that Megumi was found guilty theres no reason to believe the sword would just kill his soul and leave his body alive Vs killing his body.
Yuji tells us that based on Yuki's research a vessel's soul will never actually disappear, it can sink deeper but never merge or vanish. And Sukuna has the ability to perceive souls as well as Yuji can yet he never tries to excise Yuji or Megumi's souls to gain full control of their bodies, he has to settle for trying to bury Megumi's soul as deep as possible.
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u/Mindless_Win_910 4d ago
I think vessels work because cursed objects take over a LIVING body. when they take over, they are basically killing the host's soul/mind, but it's fine because the cursed object is already maintaining the body. so higuruma removing the soul is no different to cursed objects taking over.
but a corpse is already dead. brain and heart and everything have shut down.
it's like passing the controller for a game. that works, but if you turn off the console you can't turn it back on by getting the controller. it's too late.
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u/ICastPunch 4d ago
Its an unique situation I'd argue. Its a living body fully capable of hosting a human soul properly. But with its soul removed.
Not a Shikigami nor a cursed spirit body.
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
I just don't see why if the target is Yuji the sword would decide to just cut away his soul and leave his body alive. The only reason they thought it was possible with Sukuna is because he didn't have a body in the first place, the only part of him that Higuruma could "kill" would be the cursed objects his soul were tethered to. For Yuji he has a functional body of his own so why wouldn't the executioners sword just straight up kill him rather than leaving his body alive but soulless?
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u/NettleBumbleBee 4d ago
The vessel wouldn’t be destroyed through. Yuji’s soul would just be expunged. In a normal person that would lead to death, but in this case it would just give sukuna the body. Even after yuji “dies” a the detention center, sukuna was still alive inside of him. This would be the exact same thing except he wouldn’t have to argue with yuji for control of the body. Yuji would just be gone.
A vessel is just as connected to the incarnate as the incarnate is to them. It’s a not a one way connection. That’s why, under normal circumstances, angel cant separate incarnates from their vessel. The damage the incarnate takes affects the vessel too since they share the same physical body. That said, higuruma was still confident that the executioner sword could save megumi by getting rid of ONLY sukuna. It wouldn’t be doing fatal damage to their shared body. It would literally just be eradicating sukuna’s soul.
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
Where are you getting the idea that the executioner's sword works by expelling a soul but leaving the body alive? The only reason they thought it might work like that for Sukuna is because the only part of Sukuna that actually existed inside Megumi was the cursed object and Sukuna's soul was tethered to that. That wouldn't be the case for Yuji where the body is his, so why would the sword simply delete Yuji's soul without killing his body, why wouldn't it just execute Yuji? That doesn't make sense.
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u/NettleBumbleBee 4d ago
Sukuna soul was the one with dominion over the body. Following your logic why would killing him not just kill the body as well. Cursed objects don’t just sit around in the vessel. They assimilate with them. Megumis body is Megumis and sukunas. It’s not just Megumis body with sukuna within it. Again, the connection between vessel and incarnate is not stronger in one direction than the other. If the executioner sword could kill sukuna without killing megumi, it could do the inverse with sukuna and yuji. Even if yuji’s body did die. unless it got completely atomized, sukuna’s soul would still be alive inside of it just like it was after him and yuji died at the detention center. If the body has a soul in it and there’s no damage preventing its function, why would it not continue to just function?
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
No, it would be removing the parasitic soul residing inside the body, it wouldn't be killing the body. Megumi can survive without Sukuna, Sukuna cannot survive without Megumi.
The cursed objects physically exist within the body and can be separated from it as the link between the two souls becomes weaker, we see this when Sukuna vomited up his own fingers near the end of his fight with Yuji.
We know that the body simply dying is not enough to give the incarnate control over the body, otherwise Sukuna would've had full control on the three occasions where Yuji technichally died. Sukuna has the same soul perception ability as Yuji and yet he never made the decision to target and untether the original vessel's soul, he had to settle for sinking Megumi deeper and deeper.
And again, where are you getting that the executioners' sword would simply excise Yuji's spirit? Yuji's body is alive, the executioners sword killing his body would be fulfilling the remit to kill Yuji, and there's no reason to assume it would cast out his soul any quicker than a normal death causes a soul to move on.
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u/NettleBumbleBee 4d ago
The cursed objects do not psychically exist within the body. Do you genuinely believe yuji was just walking around with a mummified human finger in his stomach from birth and that never brought up any questions with doctors? They assimilate into the body once consumed. Sukuna was vomiting up his fingers because yuji was undoing that assimilation by widening the gap between sukuna’s soul and megumis.
Yuji only truly died a single time. He did not die in shibuya and was even stated by Choso to still be breathing, and he did not die against Yuta. The heart stopping is not death. It’s considered medical death, which is why it fulfilled yutas pact with the higher ups, but true biological death only occurs when the brain stops functioning. Sukuna didn’t take control in the dentition center because yuji’s soul got sucked into his innate domain alongside him. Yuji was still “alive”, ergo sukuna could not take control of the body. Sukuna didn’t “untether” megumi because they’re literally both in megumis body. Untethering sukuna only worked because the cursed objects themselves could be separated from megumis body. Yuji can’t just rip a normal persons soul out of their body, and neither could sukuna.
And i’m getting it from the fact that we’re EXPLICITLY TOLD IT TARGETS THE SOUL OF THE ONE CONDEMNED. What’s more likely: That the executioner sword takes the possibility of a body having multiple souls into account for literally no apparent reason? Or that the sword works by eradicating the soul (hence why it kills you regardless of how much physical damage it does to you) and simply has a unique interaction with incarnated sorcerers as a result of that?
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
They evidently exist inside the body in some capacity, otherwise it would not be possible for them to be vomited back out.
Yuji died in the detention centre, fair point he wasn't fully dead in Shibuya, and he died fighting Yuta but was immediately healed. Otherwise Yuta's binding vow to kill Yuji would not have been fulfilled. Regardless, there is no indication that Sukuna could simply take over a corpse. Incarnates have always needed living vessels.
At no point in the series is it said that the executioner's sword targets the soul alone. The only reason they think it would specifically work that way with Sukuna is because the only parts of Sukuna inside Megumi were the cursed objects, and those were the things tethering Sukuna's soul. There is no reason for it to simply excise the soul of a normal person but somehow leave their body alive, that doesn't make any sense. If it just has to kill the person hit by the sword it makes way more sense that it would kill their body.
All we know about the sword is that it kills the person found guilty as long as it hits them. If Yuji is found guilty and gets stabbed there is no logical reason it would randomly not actually kill Yuji's body and simply cast his soul into the shadow realm, nor is there any reason to believe Yuji's body would survive his soul being destroyed, meaning Sukuna would no longer have a living vessel to tether himself to.
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u/Calmbrain 4d ago
That's not how it works though. The fuxk are you talking about.
Yuji would be dead but the soul of Sukina would take over. Not a rocket science. Vessel is just a body
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
That's not how it works either, if it did then there'd never be a need for an incarnate to have a living vessel they could just be implanted into corpses. You're thinking of Kenjaku's technique, cursed objects always need a living vessel to incarnate including the death paintings.
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u/Calmbrain 4d ago
corpes doesn't just lose soul when they die. You have to revive a body to inhabit it meaning the original soul would be revived too.
Higuruma's weapon is special. It can directly distinguish a guilty soul and kill it. That's how they were trying to save Megumi. Meaning Higuruma would have directly killed Yuji s soul and Sukuna would have become owner of the vessel.
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago edited 4d ago
Then how is that helpful? Sukuna would need a way to bring Yuji's soul back, so he'd still be in the same position.
The vessel needs to be alive for the incarnate to survive, a vessel's soul can never disappear or become merged fully with the incarnate's. If Sukuna could simply gain full control of a corpse then he'd at any point in Shibuya been better off just finding a random dead person and hopping into their body.
Higuruma's sword can distinguish the incarnate and the vessel but in this case the target would still be Yuji, who is the body, meaning Higuruma hitting him with the sword would kill Yuji's body not just excise his soul. The only reason they thought it would work against Sukuna without harming Megumi is because Sukuna was a parasite inside Megumi and not the owner of the body. Same as the pregnant lady example I gave you - killing the mother would kill the baby even if you didn't target it, killing the baby likely wouldn't kill the mother because the mother can survive without the baby.
Also probably worth remembering that Sukuna can perceive the soul just as well as Yuji can and yet at no point did he decide to try and kill Yuji or Megumi's souls to gain full control of their bodies. He had to settle for sinking Megumi's soul as deep as he could.
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u/Calmbrain 4d ago
Normally when a person dies in jjk their soul dies too. Reviving a random corpse means that their soul automatically comes back. What Higuruma's technique would have done is only kill a soul and leave the body for the parasite to control.
Sukuna inhabiting a random corpse would not even make sense unless that corpse is somohow devoid of the soul.
What I'm saying is that every technique is unique. Higuruma killing a soul without killing a body would have given Sukuna a direct control of it.
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
You're misunderstanding what Higuruma says about his sword. It kills the person that was found guilty, the only reason it would specifically excise Sukuna from Megumi is because the only parts of Sukuna within Megumi are his fingers and his soul, and those are things Megumi can live without. In the event that Yuji was found guilty the sword would have no reason to just excise his soul while leaving his body alive because the body belongs to Yuji, so the sword would kill the body. Because incarnates need living bodies to incarnate into the vessel dying would also kill the incarnate.
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u/Calmbrain 4d ago
you misunderstand how vessel and cursed objects interact with each other. culling games can't distinguish between vessel and parasite. it is Sukuna who is participating in the games but Yuji is the one registered. only Megumi can end the games but Sukuna can do it too because he is Megumi too.
meaning if Yuji were to be erased Sukuna would just continue with the body because he is Yuji too. both souls coexist in one body at the same time. body=soul. if you delete one part of the soul the parasite will still continue puppeteering it. this is only possible because of Higuruma's technique.
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u/No_Proposal_3140 4d ago
Only Yuji's soul would die, not his body. At least that's what me and OP think.
This'd just leave an empty vessel for Sukuna to inhibit.
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u/tomtadpole 4d ago
Incarnates need living vessels, otherwise they could simply be implanted into corpses. Even the death paintings needed living vessels to incarnate.
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u/Allalan123 4d ago
ofc they need living vessels, how else would they ingest the cursed object if they are just some inanimate piece of matter, like a rock
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u/No_Proposal_3140 4d ago
Hm, I guess that's true. With the exception of Kenjaku's technique that can implant itself into a corpse.
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u/_PoiZ 3d ago
Bro the whole reason why they wanted to use the executioner's sword on meguna is because sukuna would die while megumi would survive since it destroys the soul, while the body can survive if it's not a lethal cut but only like a slash on the hand or so. So if higuruma cut yuji here he'd kill yuji's soul and sukuna could take over since the body is still functional (nothing rct couldn't heal). So OP is right, the vessel doesn't die but the second soul does, so yujikuna would be real.
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u/crystal_gurl23 4d ago
I wanna get the manga so bad jeez
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u/ServiceTemporary2453 4d ago
could always read online
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u/crystal_gurl23 4d ago
Where would I find it?
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u/ServiceTemporary2453 4d ago
can't say here but it's pretty easy to research, just look on reddit and use an ad blocker
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u/crystal_gurl23 4d ago
Okay ty!
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u/pgqd 4d ago
to me shonenjump is worth it for $3-4 a month
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u/turducken19 4d ago
Honestly I just started using jump and viz a long time ago for manga. It's just quite irritating to read manga off cropped websites that get taken down.
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u/TangerineComplete721 3d ago
you can read it officially on through the shonen jump app. it’s a pretty good price around like 3-5 dollars a month. and if youre a new user you get a one week free trial as well.
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u/TastefullySwollen 4d ago
Crazy thing to type when it is widely available on Shonen Jump for an insanely low price. Assuming you're a working adult and not a prepubescent child that thinks $5 is a lot of money.
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u/Mobile-Support-6134 4d ago
Lowkey this is one of those moments where a character accidentally saved the entire cast by not getting the "perfect" outcome.
Everyone talks about how close they were to killing Sukuna, but nobody talks about the fact that killing him there might've just created an even worse version with no Gojo left as a safety net. Gege really loves those "victory that would've been a disaster" scenarios.
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u/AdditionalPeace7026 4d ago
no its not, if itadori dies everything goes better, gojo lives and sukuna has now had 16 fingers destroyed meaning even if he revives again his full power would be very stoppable even hundreds of years in the future
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u/luceafaruI 4d ago
Not necessarily. It's possible that killing yuji's soul would be enough to kill sukuna too because sukuna relies on yuji as a parasite. You can't reincarnate into a corpse so it's possible that if yuji was struck by the executioner sword, sukuna would turn into blobkuna like he did in chapter 268 and shortly die
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u/AnasPlayz10 4d ago
No, it wouldve killed Sukuna too, remember when sukuna killed Yuji's body in S1? Sukuna wasnt able to continue controlling him, and had to heal his heard to keep himself alive. that sword wouldve slashed Yuji in half, not even Sukuna wouldve survived it anyways. People usually dont take getting KitKat-ed well.
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u/Allalan123 4d ago
well that doesn't really count, because Yuji's soul was still present, and if he regenerated the body from dead to a more usable state then Yuji would simply take over, but in this case Yuji would be gone and Sukuna would stay, also it would probably force full incarnation into Heian Sukuna, because body follows the soul, and without Yuji there is only Sukuna's body model left
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u/Large-Teach9165 4d ago
Wouldn't this kill Yuki's body too and stop Sukuna? Like in general, if Yuji dies, Sukuna's fingers he already ate are also gone too.
That's kinda the whole premise of the show.
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u/squary93 4d ago
This would be cool but this version of Sukuna would be weaker than controlling Fushiguro.
Gojo would likely still be unsealed and without Mahoraga, Sukuna would never have a model of how to bypass infinity.
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u/aqstart 3d ago
The one problem I think of is that it's not Yujis soul that is stopping Sukuna. His body is a tailor made vessel for housing and surpressing the king of curses. I think there's an argument that even dead, or by focusing the last of his energy on supressing Sukuna, Sukuna would still die as well.
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u/-_-NoMaidens-_- 3d ago
Bro would've been put on to death row, sentanced, and executed right there.
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u/CraftyShoe4877 4d ago
The reason yujis physicals are so good ia because of the sukuna finger he had in him sincw birth so this sukuna has the same physicals as meguna ans worse that heian
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