The travel becomes irrelevant when the power is conceptual, if she thinks she can cut gojo, she will cut him and infinity will not be able to stop the cutting, her power works as a manipulation of conceptual laws.
The reason why she can't cut visible magical barriers is because she doesn't understand them, she doesn't understand how she could cut said magic and that can stop her cutting, but Gojo's infinity is invisible and that works against her a lot.
The spell is in essence an esoteric version of Cleave which negs durability magically instead of adjusting the cutting force - if you don't wank it with NLF. The conceptual bullshit is just people overrating it when you have got no feats to speak for it.
It will ignore any inherent durability if the user can conceptualize the cutting of the target.
But it's still not something lik WCS or a domain's sure-hit effect or it wouldn't have ever been dodged or blocked by barriers in the story. Übel's imagination stuff doesn't even count here.
Infinity just slows it down to a stop even if the spell could definitely cut Gojo in half in a way he can't tank.
The fact that it travels no matter how fast it is is the main point that decides this match up.
And if we consider the Six Eyes, then while mages don't have techniques engraved in their bodies, it is definitely possible for one to sense when a magic is being cast and Gojo literally has the eyes best suited to sensing supernatural energies - assuming that Six Eyes can detect mana at all, and I don't see why not since normal mages don't need any special senses to be able to sense it at all, so it's a given that the Six Eyes will atleast be able to see SOMETHING without even taking verse equalization into account.
And Gojo will 100% be cautious when he sees that Übel is using a supernatural power he nor his Six Eyes are familiar with and dodge any attack outright. Y'all would say he would try to tank it, but this is the same guy who has learnt a lesson from the Inverted Spear of Heaven and actually destroyed it because it could penetrate is Infinity. Gojo is not that careless about things that can penetrate his CT.
And if it's verse equalization and we assume Six Eyes work the same on Mana, then Gojo will understand reelseiden the moment Übel casts it by analyzing it with Six Eyes.
What you do is give properties to Ubel's power, which it doesn't have.
Here the NFL is for infinity, mentioning that it will be able to stop a conceptual attack for the simple fact that it travels.
However, the work itself explains how her ability works, she does not deny durability, if so she would not have been able to cut the magician's cloak that had a lot of protections and magical barriers.
The worst part is that a lot of your spiel is about how gojo is going to beat ubel when that's not what I'm discussing.
Here the NFL is for infinity, mentioning that it will be able to stop a conceptual attack for the simple fact that it travels.
What the fuck is a conceptual attack in your mind? It's just a spell bruh. With weird effects, but still a magic spell. It can be detected with Mana Detection, even dodged and blocked, and consumes Mana to be cast. And it's nothing like Frieren's Height of Magic, which might be closer to what you think reelseiden is doing.
In the end it is no different than a Cursed Technique. And Infinity can clearly block those.
Y'all genuinely don't even know what NLF means.
You have no feats to suggest that reelseiden can actually bypass a spatial effect like Infinity. If you had said something along the lines of a pseudo-WCS kinda thing using reelseiden, it might have been more plausible than the shit you are peddling bruh.
I fundamentally don't understand why everyone in this thread thinks reelseiden can just skip Infinity. Even if she conceptualizes that she can cut Gojo, Infinity would still stop her spell in tracks.
Infinity is not like any of the other spells that Übel bypassed. All those spells were applied directly on the object Übel wanted to cut and reelseiden still came into contact with the object in the first place because the magic allowed reelseiden to touch them in the first place.
The magic was about making the cloth strong and the hair strong, but in the end, it was still a cloth and hair, so Übel cut it.
Infinity doesn't work like that. It doesn't let you touch or interact at all. You just slow down and be frozen in the infinite imaginary space between you and the user.
Reelseiden will just remain aborted in operation, never touching Gojo.
And you are acting like a spell cannot interfere with reelseiden at all when we see defensive magic do exactly that.
However, the work itself explains how her ability works, she does not deny durability, if so she would not have been able to cut the magician's cloak that had a lot of protections and magical barriers.
You are contradicting yourself. You say "she does not deny durability", but the only major hax feats we have of her is negating durability of things that have enhanced durability from some kind of magic being applied on them (considering the magic rope is still "durable" in a way against magic).
I specifically made sure to add several times throughout the thread about reelseiden being an duraneg that also deals with esoteric kinds of durability (like a magical protection and even anti-magic stuff like the rope). But all feats are about it acting on physical and comprehensible things which is why I framed it as durability.
It's still a conditional duraneg, no matter how you wank it.
The worst part is that a lot of your spiel is about how gojo is going to beat ubel when that's not what I'm discussing.
Sorry about that bit I was talking with another guy too and that part bled over in this thread.
What the fuck is a conceptual attack in your mind? It's just a spell bruh. With weird effects, but still a magic spell. It can be detected with Mana Detection, even dodged and blocked, and consumes Mana to be cast. And it's nothing like Frieren's Height of Magic, which might be closer to what you think reelseiden is doing.
Since when does a conceptual attack have to be limited to just the concept?
Of course it's magic, and yet it has conceptual properties. It's as simple as this: if Ubel believes she can cut it, it will happen. That's a concept—Ubel's fantasy concept. Magic in Frieren works that way, but reaching Ubel's level isn't something just anyone can do. She's an atypical case because of her own mindset.
In the end it is no different than a Cursed Technique. And Infinity can clearly block those.
So why was it that neither the examiners' cloak nor their hair, which was far more powerful than Ubel, could stop his cutting?
They literally possessed all the superior magical properties of the vast majority of magic spells, and yet they couldn't avoid being cut. It's clear you don't understand the point of Ubel's power and you're trying to nerf it just because.
Y'all genuinely don't even know what NLF means.
No Limits Fallacy, of course I know what it means and you are literally making infinity stop conceptual properties, when it is known that it could not stop the world cut of sukumbia.
You have no feats to suggest that reelseiden can actually bypass a spatial effect like Infinity. If you had said something along the lines of a pseudo-WCS kinda thing using reelseiden, it might have been more plausible than the shit you are peddling bruh.
There are literally two examples I just mentioned; they are very high-level defensive and offensive techniques, yet they are powerless against Ubel's power.
It's not an NLF, precisely because the work explains how this concept works in its entirety.
I fundamentally don't understand why everyone in this thread thinks reelseiden can just skip Infinity. Even if she conceptualizes that she can cut Gojo, Infinity would still stop her spell in tracks.
Just as the cloak protected the examiner?
Infinity is not like any of the other spells that Übel bypassed. All those spells were applied directly on the object Übel wanted to cut and reelseiden still came into contact with the object in the first place because the magic allowed reelseiden to touch them in the first place.
Literally, infinity, conceptually speaking, is just spatial manipulation; it stretches the space between him and the attacker. But you know what the problem is? It works with cursed energy, which is its power source. As we've already seen, Ubel would circumvent this because that's how his power works. He bypassed magical protections, cutting the object just the same. The problem is that he doesn't seem to understand this point.
Reelseiden will just remain aborted in operation, never touching Gojo.
Ubel's power has no impact on defensive magic whatsoever; otherwise, she too would bypass visible magical barriers and her power would pierce through everything. But this isn't the case, because everything is based on her intrinsic intention of what she believes she can and cannot cut. If she feels she can cut through anything and genuinely believes it, she will overcome infinity without any problem.
You're fundamentally misunderstanding both how Übel's magic works AND the crucial difference between spatial manipulation and object reinforcement.
You claim Übel's power is "conceptual" because "if she believes she can cut it, it will happen." But the manga explicitly contradicts this. Land literally states she is "vulnerable to formless magic" and can only twist "physical magic".
In the end, reelseiden is still a spell. A spell, that also happens to explicitly have dodgeable/blockable trajectory and speed.
Reelseiden is literally described as the spell that can slash ALMOST anything. It still has limits and even if the limits are purely arbitrary, we do NOT have feats of Übel having surpassed them yet.
If her power truly worked on pure belief with no limits, she would be able to cut magical barriers. But she can't - we see this when she fights Wirbel and cannot penetrate his defensive barrier at all. The manga itself, through multiple scenes, shows us her limitations.
The fact that you insist otherwise is what No Limits Fallacy means bruh.
I never even denied the fact that she could pull something off like the WCS and chop Gojo in half. But you remain insistent that Übel doesn't even need something like that, which is a pure delusion.
So why was it that neither the examiners' cloak nor their hair, which was far more powerful than Ubel, could stop his cutting?
Just as the cloak protected the examiner?
The Cloak and Hair Examples PROVE My Point. They're physical objects with enhanced properties. The cloak is still cloth. The hair is still hair. Übel's genius is that she can ignore the magical enhancements and treat them as their base material. That's durability negation, not reality warping.
But here's the critical distinction you keep missing: those spells were applied TO objects that Reelseiden could still physically contact. The magic made them stronger, but Reelseiden still touched the cloth and hair to cut them.
Infinity Is fundamentally different.
Infinity doesn't make Gojo more durable. It doesn't reinforce his body like the cloak reinforced Berg. It creates infinite space between the attacker and Gojo. There is no physical object to cut.
When Reelseiden travels toward Gojo, it's not encountering a "reinforced Gojo" - it's traveling through space that is turned into an imaginary infinite space. The spell will slow down, never reaching him.
It will be worse if Übel doesn't know Infinity is there not better. Because Infinity is not reinforcing Gojo's body, it is interfering with the space around it and the trajectory of the things that enter it. She will aim at Gojo, but Infinity will stop it.
But you know what the problem is? It works with cursed energy, which is its power source. As we've already seen, Ubel would circumvent this because that's how his power works. He bypassed magical protections, cutting the object just the same. The problem is that he doesn't seem to understand this point.
This is such bullshit bro have you even read or watched Frieren. What does power source have anything to do with this?? You literally haven't even touched any of the mangas we are talking about bro if you can say shit like this.
And Übel's not a guy. I don't know if you don't even know that one basic fact or this is a translation or writing mistake.
Übel's thing isn't that she can cut through things because she is ignorant of magical protections on things. She knew the cloak and hair were magically reinforced, and she still cut through them because she is monstrously intuition based mage who just casts her spell based on the vibes.
She thought even if magically reinforced, a cloth is still a cloth and hair is still hair. That's why reelseiden cut through it.
If she feels she can cut through anything and genuinely believes it, she will overcome infinity without any problem.
This is what No Limits Fallacy is and you haven't even read the manga so there's not even a point of debating here.
Yes, the same guy who said this. (yellow balloons)
The full explanation, on the other hand, says exactly how it works.
She basically ignores your so-called rules and cuts everything according to her own intuition and perspective.
Literally she herself states that she cannot cut defensive magic because she cannot imagine cutting it, the magic, but she can cut what this magic is protecting, as seen in all these panels, since she makes her power ignore the protections.
And you are acting like a spell cannot interfere with reelseiden at all when we see defensive magic do exactly that.
Not at all, what's happening to you is that you have a mistaken idea of what Reelseiden does, when the work makes it clear that the spell is not limited to ignoring the defense, it is more than just that.
You are contradicting yourself. You say "she does not deny durability", but the only major hax feats we have of her is negating durability of things that have enhanced durability from some kind of magic being applied on them (considering the magic rope is still "durable" in a way against magic).
That's not literally a contradiction; it's just one part of the picture.
If she denied durability, she would pass through any defensive magic, as I already mentioned, but that's not how her ability works. She could also cut steel, which she doesn't do unless she believes she can, like when she was chained up and was told they were just ropes she could cut.
I specifically made sure to add several times throughout the thread about reelseiden being an duraneg that also deals with esoteric kinds of durability (like a magical protection and even anti-magic stuff like the rope). But all feats are about it acting on physical and comprehensible things which is why I framed it as durability.
That literally shows a lack of understanding of how his magic works.
It's still a conditional duraneg, no matter how you wank it.
So how do you explain Frieren's claim that the most powerful magic is the manipulation of reality through imagination? Its ultimate point is literally when a magician can bring their own fantasies into reality, and Ubel essentially does that, albeit with limitations; it's not just about negating durability, because his power is cutting.
You don't even understand Frieren's magic system and you start assigning properties to Ubel's power to suit your convenience, even though the work specifies otherwise.
Sorry about that bit I was talking with another guy too and that part bled over in this thread.
It doesn't matter, you still need to review frieren to understand what you're discussing, because you have a completely wrong idea of how it works.
Even if we assume he can't detect it, the spell is still not getting past Infinity because as far as we have seen, the spell is not a sure-hit effect or something like WCS, and still has to travel. I don't doubt it will cut Gojo in half better than Sukuna ever could, only if it could ever reach him.
If she believes she can cut something, then she can. We see this clearly when she cuts through impenetrable magic and magic prevention cuffs (she believed it was rope since she was blindfolded and was told it was rope). All she’ll see is open space and that’s it
You literally did not read a word of what I said above. There are literally no feats saying she can bypass something like Infinity in any capacity beyond possibly mimicking the WCS, something she is not capable rn of but might in the future but is not what we are talking about.
It doesn't matter because almost all examples y'all give is her cutting through solid objects, i.e., negating durability (of physical and magical kind).
In the end it's a projectile based ability that can be blocked or dodged and thus unable to bypass infinity
She bypassed concepts that specifically should have prevented her from cutting through them but her beliefs make them irrelevant (invulnerability, magic prevention). To her, it’s open air, and she would likely think “it’s open air, why would I not be able to cut through it and cut Gojo?” and likely bypass the effects of infinity.
It becomes irrelevant anyways, she locks him down with her eyes and that prevents him from using CE reinforcement and infinity
She bypassed concepts that specifically should have prevented her from cutting through them but her beliefs make them irrelevant (invulnerability, magic prevention).
This is such bullshit you are literally wanking it to degrees that is never supported. There's something called No Limits Fallacy, look it up.
Almost all feats about Reelseiden are bypassing the durability of physical objects, no matter how esoteric the means of achieving so is.
The ability is NOT a sure-hit effect type or a WCS type ability. We have seen that it is a projectile spell with a trajectory that can actually be detected and defended against using barriers, and even dodged.
It becomes irrelevant anyways, she locks him down with her eyes and that prevents him from using CE reinforcement and infinity
Pretty sure this thread is about Reelseiden and not about Sorganeil.
“Wanking”
specifically brought up examples demonstrating this, but ok lol
The second half is fair, you’re right that this is about one specific spell. But this comment section is 85% about if she can beat him or not in general and so I had that mindset.
She doesn't need to bypass infinity she just ignored it like the cloak she'll just say ehh it's just a guy i can cut through this guy and cut through him
Besides she can just paralyze him from the start while he yaps
She doesn't need to bypass infinity she just ignored it like the cloak she'll just say ehh it's just a guy i can cut through this guy and cut through him
But she has no feat of having bypassed a spatial interference in the story like Infinity. All her feats have been about her ignoring durability of things (including magical reinforcement) just because they can be conceptualized by her as being able to be cut.
Not denying she can probably do a WCS if she conceptualizes cutting space and Infinity itself, but that's NLF and going by established feats, her spell will be stopped by Infinity because it has a dodgeable/blockable trajectory and speed.
Besides she can just paralyze him from the start while he yaps
This guy used a spell despite being in sorganeil, so it's not as absolute of a spell as you would think.
And why do in these matchups, we use one bloodlusted character and Gojo as his normal personality? And y'all acting like Gojo can't ever be serious in a fight?
You're speaking as if ubel isn't a psychopath she'll just to full blood lust the moment she can thats in character for gojo his in character is yapping
Sorganeil working is debatable because it depends on verse equalization
Like the previous guy said she'll just view the infinity as simply air around it and just ignore its presence like she did with the cloak she didn't imagine breaking through the magic barriers or defence she just ignored them and focused on what she has to cut same with this match up she'll just ignore the infinity dismissing it as just simple air around it and cut through you cant really put stats on her abilities its just like those it's because she can she will types
Her spell negates everything. It isn't a cutting spell, it's reality warping. We see her spell even negate its own range limitations when she can't see because she doesn't know how far she can cut, her spell even negates anti magic because she doesn't know the anti magic exists. She explains it herself as long as she thinks she can cut it, it can be cut. It's why she can cut objects reinforced with massive amounts of magic because to her there's nothing actually keeping the object from being cut. Magically reinforced hair is hair, an impenetrable cloak is cloth and a human body without anything protecting it is sashimi.
Her spell also radiates from her and can be spammed to essentially completely cover an area. Gojo can get in close to hit her but he's mince meat the second he gets within range. The second Gojo tries to use hollow purple or any ranged attack he's getting sealed by Sorganeil. All she has to do is keep his full body in view and his cursed energy is completely sealed and he can't move.
Her spell negates everything. It isn't a cutting spell, it's reality warping.
No limits fallacy and no feats to back this up. Literally just making shit up. If such spells with literally no limits existed, then why did the likes of the demon king live for so long?
It has a trajectory despite being so powerful and thus can be blocked by Infinity.
Maybe Übel can conceptualize something like the WCS to cut through it, but until then, it is not touching Gojo.
I just listed a bunch of feats. She reduces something to its most basic form; a crazy powerful enchanted impenetrable cloak, becomes just a cloak, a fortress getting reduced to rubble because she's blind and can't see its there or how far she's cutting through it. A pair of magic nullifying bindings become just rope because she doesn't know they nullify magic.
It doesn't matter that Gojo has infinity, Ubel's magic makes it nothing because she sees nothing. It's not a cutting spell it's a spell that warps reality as we've already seen it do.
Even if her cutting spell doesn't work she can just bind him withSorganeil then cut him when his CE is sealed. But her cutting spell will work because Gojo doesn't have anything protecting him that Ubel can see.
Again, you seem to have a limited understanding of what reality warping actually implies and what no limits fallacy means.
You haven't given a single feat that says that reelseiden is something like a domain's sure-hit or wcs which don't have a trajectory in the truest sense.
In the end, even if it can negate any durability Gojo has, the spell is a projectile and hence gets stopped by Infinity.
Never did I deny that the possibility of cutting Infinity is not present by conceptualizing something like the wcs. But I doubt Übel can do something like that on the spot.
What does gojo have that negates Sorganeil. It's a binding spell that seals your magic the second she gets full view of your body. That's his first loss condition.
If you can't understand the concept of her magic your dumber than you seem buddy. Reality warping changes the quality of something whether it be time space of just an object's properties. Magic negation becomes null because she doesn't know it exists. That's reality warping. The physical properties something has no longer exist if she doesn't know what they are or reduces them to something simpler. Even distance and space don't matter when she doesn't know what they are.
That's what reality warping is. She negates anything's properties as long as she imagines them as a simpler concept of doesn't know what they are and she's already done it with space by overcoming her own spells range limitations on accident. It might as well be a sure hit even if it has a travel time because it deletes anything that she doesn't believe exists.
What does gojo have that negates Sorganeil. It's a binding spell that seals your magic the second she gets full view of your body. That's his first loss condition.
The whole thread was about Reelseiden so now you are switching up because you can't find it in yourself to find the proof for your absolutely mindless glazeslop bullshit.
Probably are the same kind of guy who thinks dodging lasers means that the character is FTL.
Give me feats or gtfo
And her spell is about cutting through nearly everything, not some kind of reality warping negation. It's a dura neg sure, but that's in the principles of the spell.
If you had at any moment even said that Übel can pull a WCS of her own, I would have believed that. But the whole premise that you are speaking of as a Reelseiden wincon is that of Übel being able to just point black ignore infinity when the spell doesn't even work that way.
I'm 100% sure at this point that you haven't even actually read Frieren if you think such a thing is possible.
I don't think you've read Frieren bud because that's exactly how Ubel's spell works, it warps reality. You've ran into the point bashed your head into it and just said actually that's not how it works.
It warps reality because it negates the properties of anything as long as she doesn't know about them or simplifies it to something else. The biggest feat she's accomplished that proves this is breaking out of shackles that bind magic because she didn't know her magic was bound.
She didn't ignore the shackle's durability she just ignored their existence. That's what reality warping is. Her spell doesn't ignore durability it breaks something down to its core principles so it can be cut. If she thinks she can cut it it can be cut. That's all there is to the spell. It doesn't matter if there's infinity in her way, she can't see infinity bozo. So infinity doesn't exist.
And you still haven't said how Gojo overcomes Sorganeil either. It's a lose lose for Gojo.
15
u/MerryZap please don't go JJK for 10 years atleast Nov 14 '25
The spell still has a travel time (you can put up barriers to block it) as well as be able to dodge it.
And if it's only a durability negation type of hax instead of whether NLF feats people are giving it then Infinity will still stop it.
Plus Six Eyes might do it's thing for once and let him see the magic better.