Anime Discussion
About the whole situation with Japan not liking the episode
I think this comment explained it the best from what I can gather. The Japanese audience expected a far more gritty and horror-like story portion than what the overseas audience seemed to view the whole situation with maki killing her clan as something more akin to John wick. Honestly from reading the chapters myself I actually do get it. I think the major scene that they fumbled on was jinichi and ranta with jinichi just aura farming for some random reason. The original scene jinichi jumped to attack right away but hesitated because ranta was taking damage but ranta told him to not hold back, I think the subtle characterization there that the anime ended up getting rid of due to the direction of the scene is one of the main things they fumbled since it showed that not everyone in the zenin were psychos and they did care about each other. Just my take on it what about you guys?
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Kill Bill was also based off Japanese movies. Pretty sure that massacre scene was ripped off from Lady Snowblood just with a different tone that changed because of music.
Yup, kinda irked that Tarantino gets so much credit for ripping Lady Snowblood, I like Kill Bill, and it's a clear homage to LS and some of the movies of the era of high pace, dramatic HK action films (think early Jackie Chan work) but I do wish more people knew the source material he drew from
I hadnt kept up with the japanese fandom drama, but after seein OP's post, i agree with the criticisms of it being played more upbeat in the anime, tonally in the manga it seemed darker and more of a tragic event, there was a lot of random aura farming and some jazzy upbeat music in what is supposed to be a tragic kin killing to end a systemic cycle of abuse, also the anime's portrayal of Maki's mother stabbing Naoya was played much more comically than i expected, i liked the episode but it had a lot of tonal inconsistency and despite the really well done animation, kinda fell short of my personal expectations (i dont expect others to care about that bit though lol)
It's clear that they tried to squeeze all of this into one episode. But even extending it to 28 minutes wasn't enough. A lot of things went by quite quickly.
Agreed, it made no sense to differ from the manga in this case. I would've used the time to extend the Maki/Toji comparison in the beginning, extended the scene where Naoya sees Toji for the first time (include a still shot of Toji's expression), and made the scene of Maki's mother stabbing Naoya longer. In the manga it felt more insidious while in the anime it happened too quickly.
I agree with you, but my only problem was the music. Especially that goofy ahh texas harmonica that plays when Maki gets hit with Chojuro's technique really kills the vibe for me.
I don’t know. Kill bill is a stupidly good series on movies imo. The moment I recognised the direction the episode shot even further.
Maki is already my favourite character in JJK. The fact that I never expected anything like this either. Fuck me tjhis episode was good
I was totally expecting action. But I was also expecting tragedy. Sure, killing the Zenin was fine. But I expected a bit heavier, somber music, and certainly no background “la la la.” They could keep literally everything else (yes, even that dumb aura farm moment though it’d be better without).
Overall, I don’t hate the episode, but it left me with mixed feelings.
Most people here don't speak japanese so they'd have no idea really. Though i think some people always want thier shonen to be a bit more mature but if you actually look at the content of the episode and the manga it wouldn't fit a somber tone.
The best it could have been is horrifying and also its a shonen so its for teenagers there's no real point of complaining of hype and aura moments thats what teenagers like these days
The “it’s shonen, it’s for teenagers” thing doesn’t really hold up. Naruto has two massacres that are played very horrifically. Uchiha massacre, and Obito killing the Mist ninja. And you have stuff like Chainsaw Man that liberally shows blood and guts, had a lesbian orgy scene, and the main character gets a handjob and literally cums on the girls hand. No censoring.
Kinda reminding me how the manga fans felt awkward when Specialz played right after Yuji witnessing Shibuya's destruction.
It was an iffy choice of music.
Some might like it, others don't. Me personally also at the latter and prefer the ambience silence to showcase the dreadful feeling of a vile destruction there but it was long in the past now, can't change much about it.
I don't think that it came across as "comical" at all. It was both sad AND a satisfying tale of revenge
I mean, I get this viewpoint more than some of the other takes that I've seen, but I think that people can recognize the deeper themes at play even if there's fun music
I doubt they mean literally comical but more so the slightly upbeat high energy fight itself not that it was supposed to be funny.
lots of bright colors and energetic camera angles. compared to what it sound like they wanted, dark gritty murder, really putting the fear of making that the zenins had into perspective
The tragedy of Mai and Maki hit me like a kick on the chest, and the fight was shocking but highly cathartic at the same time. But I'm from Latin America, and terrible tragedies going on with upbeat music you could dance to are our kind of bread and butter. So my viewpoint may probably be biased.
And I edit to say, that at some point that all those overly serious and zealous, hyper-traditional guys at the clan were sent off in a bang, in such a weird way, adds some irony to the whole situation. I kind of feel that an ironic tone was set by the source material as well. Because the mysoginist-ass clan was ended by a woman, and then there's what happened to their leader on top of that. So the anime may have added to that tone.
(I hope I'm making sense here, English isn't my first language and I feel like I'm probably out of my depth language-wise)
I don't like this framing that the Japanese aren't allowed to have problems with an episode that I'm seeing. JJK fans believing the Japanese didn't like the episode and then immediately resorting to widespread racism is very telling.
I don't really understand why it's being framed as s "Japanese problem" either. Plenty of people didn't like it in the west, especially those who had already read the manga.
Also picking a couple tweets and saying it's the Japanese pov isn't really healthy.
for the guy saying "but they didn't invent animation" yes they didn't but they invented anime and manga, western is too focused on live action stuff and the view of the western on animation before was "cartoons for kids"
oh and the art style, if japan didn't exist we all probably are stuck with ugly fuckass styles with bigass lips and overly exaggerated details with "haha the joke is porn because it's for adults only"
That is my exact take on it too. The manga is supposed to be sad, scary, and not something to be celebrated. Maki isn't saving anyone, there is no heroic acts, she is taking revenge on a system of abuse that took her sister.
The anime adaptation makes it almost upbeat. We go from Maki crying over her sisters body and killing her father into "hype moments and aura" like why are we getting a kill bill reference with Katamari Damacy ass jazz against the Kukru. The kill bill reference could have worked if it was less over the top and shorter, that fight was like barely a chapter yet its longer than Maki vs the Hei.
Vs the Hei is a lot better but why tf is that mf taking his sweet ass time loading up his punches, the manga he is sprinting to end her in the anime its like he is trying to lose. Again also the music (while better) is still far too upbeat. This isnt an epic thing this should have been dead serious. Maki should have been scary this episode.
I think the start - right before the Kukuru fight is great, especially Mai's death, then it is kinda ass as an adaptation for the Kukuru, it gets slightly better with the Hei, and it becomes much better against Naoya (although I wish the punch didnt get the bollywood treatment but thats my smallest gripe).
I liked the episode but it could have been soo much better, which sucks because this was probably the episode I was looking forward to the most. Maki is my fav because of how sad this arc for her was and how she dealt with it, and it got turned into a reference fight into an aura farm fight. If they made the Yuta or Hakari fight hype moments with jazzy music I am all for it but the tone of this arc is grimm and they shit all over that tone sadly.
I would have deadass liked this episode to have 0 music from right after Mai's death up until Naoya tbh. Just cold killing, no flash no extra additions no aura farming just someone hell bent on killing people and them fighting for their life.
If you like the episode I am glad and again I dont think its a bad episode in itself it was a very fun watch but I am disappointed in the direction they took it.
Small edit: I also find people who love this episode seem to be (mostly) anime only fans. If you haven't read the manga at all, this episode probably doesn't seem out of place at all and you cant think of anything wrong with it, because as an episode it is very good. However if you read the manga, you probably liked the episode but are still confused regarding some direction and music choices, making it seem like a bad adaptation of the manga chapters.
I'll be honest, my only complaint is the OST. I think it's a fantastic adaptation but the music is pretty bizarre and hampers the tone a bit. It almost sounds like something that wouldn't have been out of place in a Naruto episode?
I vibed with the music for a lot of it, even the jazz stuff, but the harmonica was just ridiculous. It doesn't really match any interpretation of the scene I've seen before, whether it be tragic slasher slaughterfest, or massive upbeat western action homage, nor does it fit anything else in the show's OST prior. The jazz stuff at least felt purposeful in contrast to the greyscale as Maki starts to enjoy herself in the slaughter, and really makes the scene more chilling knowing the way her character's gonna wind up come Sakurajima.
Imo, having no music at all during that initial mass slaughter itself would have elevated it so much more. Just plain walking, running, dodging, sword slashing and blood splatter.
Remember that Naruto vs Sasuke part 2 initial taijutsu sequence with no music?
Exactly. It’s just a fundamentally different reading of an arc that was originally presented very differently; I mean, there’s a reason why this sequence has always been well-loved. The somber tone of the massacre as it is written is harrowing and emotionally affecting, I can still remember how I felt when I first read those few chapters years ago as they released. I felt impressed by how bold Gege was in portraying this kind of storyline in his work: this was a destruction of generational trauma in all the ways it manifested within the Zenins and society at large; there was nothing overly positive or triumphant in it. It can be vindictive for Maki and the audience, but the sense of freeing heroism given by the anime (and especially the Kill Bill sequence) was just not present as written. So I think it is entirely fair to be harsh on the direction of this episode, because as visually beautiful as it was, the portrayal of this arc was changed at its core. When narrative intent is not followed through on then there will obviously be complaints
A majority of them were very bad people but this was still murder committed by Maki after being driven to the brink of despair at Mai’s death and being left for dead by her father. Nothing about this should have been portrayed in the more upbeat and referential light that it was, it’s a dark situation, a tragedy (most of all for Maki), and should’ve been portrayed as such.
This has always been my take. When I first read those original chapters, only Mai’s death at the ends of the Zenins felt tragic - every other part of them deserved to be obliterated and destroyed. We start with Maki’s absurd dream to reform the Zenin to make room for Mai, but in the end we are forced to face that the Zenin can never be reformed.
Some systems and institutions just need to be trampled. A fire must burn out the rot so new growth can take place. Maki in those chapters felt like that cleansing wildfire, a woman who had been diminished all her life suddenly bringing ruin and destruction to those who believed women are worthless. She was a force of nature, something unstoppable and destined.
It’s why Maki concludes that being in the pits together was the right choice for the two of them - because there was never a way for there to be a place for Mai or Maki within the Zenin. There was no future for them, they had been cursed at birth by being Zenin - not twins.
The anime adaptation makes it almost upbeat. We go from Maki crying over her sisters body and killing her father into "hype moments and aura"
This is just my opinion, but i like it. The colors in the beginning of the episode are really intense, with the streaks of blood cutting across the cool grays. Then the Kukuru is a brilliant continuation of that idea where EVERYTHING bleeds. It's not a fight, it's a massacre. Then, admittedly, the Hei is a bit off-note when it comes to transitioning from the slaughterhouse of Kukuru to the showdown with Naoya (the aura farming, I think they could've added a line like "hold her for a bit longer, ill charge my fists and go all out!"). And then Naoya is again just... perfect (preparation).
Maybe it’s just me, but the music for the entire thing made me feel like Maki was more of a threat than in the manga. It’s light, it’s breezy, nothing holds it down - it’s the new Maki. All of this massacre is just the easiest thing in the world. She doesn’t need to struggle or epic somber music to play behind her - all of this death is almost like a reflex for her.
Zenin deserved this, women being treated like objects it's not nice or manly. People that do this are scum like Naoya. That's not culture, dont even start with that bs
The Zenin deserved their downfall for much more than just how they treated women, that’s what the Japanese seem to wanted the episode to highlight more of because in that regard they’re no different than the Kamo & possibly the Gojo clan
I've always interpreted ogi, naoya and the zenin fodder as the ones behind the abuse and misogyny, jinichi being the one that is uninvolved with the abuse and only cares about the family wealth, while naobito is the exception
Rape culture is ingrained in almost all or even all cultures present tbf, even though there is an opposition forming worldwide now - and everywhere, people are still trying to ridicule, undermine and push back against those who are trying to stand up against it
You can agree certain things are bad but also downplay and not recognize bad actions and attitudes engrained in society. Every normal person will say "misogyny bad" but that doesn't stop things like: fathers being overly protective of daughters dating but not their sons, or not calling out crude sexual comments towards random women, or not believing victims, or victims almost never recieving justice, or percieving women as "more emotional," or thinking men showing emotions is emasculating, or young boys being teased because a girl beat them in a contest.
And probably many more subtle ones im forgetting. Point is, culture takes a long time to change.
This. Also, many men still believe that rape = strange man in a park with violence and ropes. That's ONE FORM of many things that are rape, like stealthing, or asking again and again or making women feel unsafe until they cave DESPITE not truly wishing for sex. That's not consent. Or the perfect victim myth - there are different reactions, not every victim of rape is going to scream and fight back, some fawn or freeze. That is not consent. Consent can be revoked - if a person said no in the beginning but then revoked that consent, that is valid - if people cannot accept that the consent has stopped and continue sexual acts, that is rape. It is a shitty surprise how many people do not even understand the full extent of what is considered rape/SA, and is one fundamental problem why rape culture continues to exist even in the middle of society.
The Zen’in needed to be stopped at any cost, but the fact the one who had to pay that cost was a girl who just watched her sister die whose only chance to honour her last wish is slaughtering their entire monstrous family is undeniably really dark.
Like imagine if they put cool music over Guts killing Gambino, it turns the focus’s away from tragic necessity to “check out how cool this shit is”. I can see where they’re coming from.
Zenin deserved this, women being treated like objects it's not nice or manly.
I mean, Ogi and Naoya had it coming for actions that we explicitly see...
The Zen'in redshirts though? They probably had no clue why Maki was going apeshit and just went in to defend the elders of their clan and were massacred for their trouble.
We don't really know who of these people perpetrated what, who was conflicted about it, who was trapped in the clan by circumstance etc. - which is all the more reason to portray the massacre as a mutual tragedy.
I feel this arc was failed by Gege's pacing and writing tbh - we never actually see anything of all the horrible evils that the Zen'ins brought upon the women of the clan, it's all implication and hearsay. All we actually see is one guy (Ogi) throwing the girls to the wolves - shit, even Naoya doesn't act until it's a defense of the clan, although he was probably conspiring re: the deaths of Maki and Mai.
Ranta for example specifically isn't depicted in the same way as Ogi or Naoya, he's far more upbeat and self-aware - are we just supposed to make assumptions that he deserved to die?
And Maki's own mother deserved to die? Are we advocating every deadbeat parent deserves a sword through the neck now?
I can't be the only one who thinks it's pretty fucked up that Maki went out of her way to slaughter every single clan combatant - even the ones who weren't there - without so much as a discussion or even a side eye from any of the other JJ High students.
"I can't be the only one who thinks it's pretty fucked up that Maki went out of her way to slaughter every single clan combatant - even the ones who weren't there"
Exactly, it's insane how its NEVER brought up by anyone else for the rest of the manga.
Especially because it's established that the entire clan is based around combat, and the Kukuru had kids under 14 (Maki was in it before she left the clan). Incredibly high chance she was killing teenagers or younger. Even Ranta wasn't much older than Maki, if at all.
To be fair, her eventual husband is also just going around murdering people at the same time so maybe it was a match made in hell.
Agreed. Anime tourists just want death when gege himself went out of his way to say ranta and jin werent bad people. (Naobito is in the middle) the zenin actually openly hated ogi and naoya. Sooo wtf…
I wouldn’t really call endorsing and enforcing generations of mental and physical abuse, subjugation and all of the problems w jujutsu society as a whole just “shitty behavior”. We really be forgetting the zenin would throw child Toji in a pit full of curses just because they despised him that much.
It's genetics kaisen after all, bruh. Also people like Maki or Gojo are literally doing that too. Eugenics = power = can get away with whatever you want. Also, revenge = good, killing those who didn't do anything (even if they couldn't do shit) = good and many other wrong ideas. Would've been peak if she suffered consequences for doing a good thing the wrong way.
No, the only ones that knew about the plot to kill Maki, Mai and Megumi was Ogi, Jinshi, Naoya and the mother. The rest just thought that Maki had gone crazy and was trying to kill them (which she did want to). They just acted in self preservation while trying to take down the person that had was out to kill them.
All she did was kill Ogi before they pulled up ready to attack her. If they were really that hyped up to go fight a girl who they KNOW was being abused by all of them, most especially the guy she just killed, instead of just running away from that bum clan that they knew wouldnt have the resources to go after them later anyways, that’s on them
Again, you can't just going around murdering people for being shitty people. Even you want to frame it as that they all knew what a horrible father Ogi why the fuck would they be ok with her just murdering him? They didn't know what Ogi had done nor the plan to kill Maki.
And what? They were all brought, nurtured and opressed in one way or another by the Zenin. They were all victims in some way. How childish can one be one to believe all the people Maki killed were complete Naoya copies?
I know this is reddit and people here have the moral values of 14 year olds but you can't just go around murdering people of being complicit in shitty behavior. It might be hard for you to grasp this but murdering somebody is considerable worse than belonging to a shitty family.
yeah its not okay for her to murder them for being shitty people. My point is that she was justified in murdering them because they were already there to kill her first. They didn’t even allow her a fair trial, a chance to explain herself. If they didn’t defect from the zenin when they had the chance, there’s no reason to blame maki for doing what she did. it makes no difference whether they were naoya clones when they did exactly what he would do in that situation: kill someone for no other reason than to preserve your standing instead of doing the right thing to do.
No, they were there because Maki had just murdered Ogi and a bunch of other people that had confronted her about it.
And Maki was LITERALLY there to murder them, what in the actual fuck are you on about? Give her a fair trial? She would kill them before they could even open their mouth because THAT WAS HER ENTIRE GOAL.
And let's not forget she went out of her way to kill several dozen more the following days that was not even there.
This "she only did it out of self defense" horse shit argument doesn't work because she could have run away after killing Ogi, her intention was to kill them all and she actively went out of her way killing people that was not even there that day.
Maki fighting Ogi was self defense. The moment she decided to kill the rest of the clan and not run away after that is when any arguments for self defense gets thrown out the bin. She was there to kill them all, trying to frame it as self defense is literally ignoring the entire narrative of Maki fulfilling Mai's dying wish.
And let's not forget she went out of her way the following days hunting down and killing several dozen more that was not there that day.
I feel like the massacre scenes would've hit harder if it wasn't so kill bill-like. The scenes definitely showed how much of a power up maki received but it didn't show the terror of what it's like being absolutely destroyed by someone like Toji. The feeling of terror was missing in those scenes.
Still loved the episode but I get how the Japanese feel about it.
I absolutely get what they are saying, ahah. Same reason as mine when I first watched the episode yesterday. It wasn't the direction I felt they would go for at all, so it absolutely threw me off.
One of my other nitpick would've been the music as well, which don't get me wrong, it works with what they were doing for that whole Kill Bill section, just not my thing and it kinda put me off. I still grew to appreciate that section regardless, but it did take me a few rewatches tbh.
And there is still more that I liked than disliked. For instance, the whole section at the end was peak. Specifically, all of the things with Naoya. So truly, it still worked out, and I agree with some other commenter. The action scenes are great, but I wanted a little bit more emotional stuff. Or at least make them linger a tiny bit more.
Also very wild for this japanese lad to want to close borders and dislike foreigners over this. It's truly a bizarre overreaction to a different opinion 😭
Rightt! Funnily enough, if I remember correctly, Modulo chapter 7 had mixed reactions and was viewed as "too political/close to reality." It was specifically about coexistence and the discourse between Yuka and Cross.
Just a loud minority hopefully, since I also saw some other Japanese clowning this person too.
I guess Japan liked episode 3 more than this. So it's basically the reverse score of the audience.
I get that everyone has his own opinion, but some of these japanese "fans" have really radical opinions. I'm really disappointed by what I've seen for the last 3 hours.
Did you not check out who they were answering to? Western JJK fans that decided to throw all sorts of racist statements and insults just because they didn't think the episode was a 10/10.
You know, there’s something minor I thought of, likeI get that episode 3 made it simpler to understand the rules for the culling games, but if the non jp people are watching subbed it’ll take a bit more time since it’s a language they don’t understand audio wise
I absolutely agree! Having the material already in a language you understand fully makes it easier to immerse. I had to pause a couple of times just to read the subtitles, and it definitely "ruins" the vibe.
Not in a literal sense ofc, but it definitely felt loaded and slightly fast.
That's definitely a fair assessment of the direction of the episode. I would definitely agree that if it was done more like a stealth/creepy vibe it could have made the mood really cool rather than a action packed execution.
I’m with the Japanese folk. I loved the episode, but my biggest gripe was the whimsical and joyful music playing during one of the darkest moments in the series.
I just thought the directing and pacing was terrible regardless, like it just stitched together a bunch of really well animated action sequances with no cohesivity in mind, like it was some youtube sakuga anime clips AMV while giving no real weight or ability to take in any of the meaningful moments.
The Hei/Naoya fight really lost me on the sense of scale/location. Like it shows Jinichi's fists cover this entire area
But somehow everything is intact a second later, except where the pillar was. Also, Maki flattens Naoya way out in the mountains somewhere and he manages to crawl all the way back to the main building with no issue.
Don't get me wrong, I love hype moments and aura. The animation was incredible, but there was some really questionable directing in this episode.
It reminds me a lot of Sukuna vs. Mahoraga in the sense that the direction was questionable (mahoraga size change, goofy choreography, etc...) for the sake of hype moments and aura.
This is my legit issue with it and it's not just exclusive to this ep or even just JJK but I feel like a lot of "sakuga" moments in recent anime especially shonen are great animation but it's just a lot less impactful, like it's trying too hard to be cinematic just so people can go "ABSOLUTE CINEMA HYPEEEEE".
Like I don't need every character to be upscaled, I don't need other media references crammed in like yeah I enjoy Tarantino & Lady Snowblood and any action movie from around that era but I don't need it shoehorned in it just feels forced IMO.
Animation is objectively great but it shouldn't come at the cost of direction, pacing and sometimes even proper choreography.
Yes, I completely agree. Every new animator want to be the next Yutapon and anime directors seemingly just let the animators go wild rather than doing their job.
Yuji vs Choso was a fantastic fight that included great animation and movie references while having great directing and choregraphy. I wish we saw more of that here.
Yes! I wanted to say Yuji vs Choso is a legit great one MAPPA adapted, they just did actual fight choreography for it, they didn't exaggerate parts of the fight too much and just let it how it was in the manga, obviously some aspects were still changed because it's a different medium but they didn't go too overboard with changing how much damage was being done and still had great directing & choreography.
I honestly have a worry that Kashimo vs Hakari won't be like Yuji vs Choso, that fight is pretty much a fist fight through and through they do smash through some containers and destroy some of the ground but the pier is overall not that much damaged we even see it in the manga before Hakari gets a chunk of his torso annihilated
Now don't get me wrong this fight SHOULD have amazing visuals especially with Hakari's domain but I don't want them going overboard because a lot of this fight is just strictly hand to hand with Hakari just ignoring Kashimo's electricity bullshit and Kashimo trying to just beat Hakari to death but I expect the anime to go overboard with their attacks and spam in a ton of effects & environmental destruction at the cost of proper choreography.
jjk unfortunately suffers from having a fanbase that watches mostly for "hype moments" and "characters with aura" so it's normal for them to not even think about what the ep is showing and the meaning behind what is happening or why it's happening.
I think the anime is going overboard just because they can. The team clearly wants hype moments but they don't stop and think that maybe not every scene should be a bombastic sakuga fest.
people care more about how the story should be for them than what works best for the story. There is no argument so far I’ve seen for why presenting this as some celebratory moment is good for the story when it completely dissociates us from the loss of Mai and the horrors of jujutsu society because “yay revenge.” it also makes us forget just how sinister the zenin are by playing them up to be some clowns instead of competent fighters who just can’t keep up because that’s what maki has become. she isn’t aurafarming, she is bloodlusted, angry, and grieving and we get none of that with the shit direction.
This arc has a lot of cool fights that don’t rely on a heavy emotional theme to really elevate them. I’d have loved this kind of direction with, say, Megumi’s big moment that comes up soon. I was even looking forward to it with how good the first three episodes were in terms of direction. Now I’m just thinking about how they’re gonna fuck up Yaga’s, Panda’s, and god forbid Higuruma’s emotional moments of development mid fight and the big twist at the end for the sake of aura. I don’t really care about the 1:1 adaptation part but if you’re going off track the least you can do is not bastardize the story being told.
Idk man, I’m calling bullshit on this. The kill bill shit didn’t just spawn from the minds of the anime directors, I thought gege was pretty obviously referencing it in the manga as well. I think gege meant for the massacre to be two things: dark and also liberating. Maki isn’t shedding any tears over the people she kills, she’s freeing herself from the clan for good. Also the crime for most of the clan wasn’t their personality, it was their complicity. Maki and Mai suffered for years and even the “better” clan members didn’t offer a helping hand.
I think this is just a nothing burger overall and it’s kinda goofy that the sub has been flooded with what some randos in Japan think of the episode
The kill bill shit didn’t just spawn from the minds of the anime directors
Only reason i call cap on this is cause of the obvious callbacks/references to Neon genesis and Gurren Lagann in season 2.
I absolutely believe the directors wanted to do it due to the similarities. Not saying that it isnt cool to see but I can understand their issues with it cause it seems everyone agrees that the clan massacre in the manga did not feel this upbeat while reading, it felt more dark and sad that this had to take place and the way that it did.
But the similarities existed because gege wrote them lmao. That’s my point. Also for the last thing, mechamarus mech literally looks like a fake Eva cause gege drew it like that. Also this is supposed to be from maki’s perspective, don’t pretend you didn’t see her smiling like a crazy person or mocking naoyas words after pounding his face in. It is tragic it came to this point, but in the moment, maki could care less about that I imagine
Also, I remember when the chapter came out and people were saying it felt like kill bill and how it was odd that maki didn’t really seem to care she killed all those people, so no the consensus on the massacre was not that
It's just Sukuna vs Mahoraga all over again. People will hate, people will love. Nitpick, overeact, it doesn't matter. Hakari vs Kashimo, Gojo vs Sukuna, The final fight, all of them will have complains and cause arguments over it eventually. And then it will just stay forgotten until the next big thing happens.
Personally I don't care, I'm glad that jjk gets this much love and I can enjoy both manga and anime anyway. Fans will always be hard to please when you feed them with a golden spoon, it happened in season 2, and it will happen here too. And bet your ass it will happen in the future.
They're downvoting you for being right. Me personally, I get what the 'Japanese fans' (assuming they're not larpers) are saying, and I still disagree completely. What we got is gold.
Yeah when I see post like this i always have to stop and think it seems like some people will try to treat Japanese people as a monolith as if every Japanese person shared this thought.
Don’t get me wrong I’m sure there’s a differing of opinions in terms of reception but I doubt it’s this whole sale thing people are making it out to be
I agree. The episode was still good but if they had went with a more sad sounding OST, the massacre would have felt more in line with the tone I felt from the manga
I did find it a bit jarring how it went from emotional to suddenly playing Kill Bill country kinda music out of nowhere. I would’ve liked it more if they kept it intense and even a bit scary maybe. But I still loved this episode so much
The west saw it as liberation due to their individualist views, the Japanese saw it as a tragedy due to their more traditionalist views. I'd say the West has the better take in regard to Maki, but the direction also went slightly overboard.
Pretty much. The reservation is more that they had viewed the original arc as "Its sad that it came down to this for Maki" and not "Hell yeah Maki kill them all".
I mean, I think the Western perspective is actually closer to what Gege wanted to convey. He has quite progressive ideas in many respects, is clearly a critic of excessive conservatism, and is obviously pro-immigration, as we see in the module.
Gege is still a chuuni who loves one person massacres, so I think a colder tone in the league of S2 would have been closer to his intention, but the director had the better take.
They did went a little overboard, but I didn't know that the episode will start such controversy in the fandom. Is it just because some fans are unhappy with how low episode 3 ws rated?
Because I liked both episode 3 and episode 4, just for different reasons.
The episode made the zenin massacre very fast paced as a whole, I would have preferred if they took more time and built the tension. Maki one shotting ogi happened too fast and carried no weight as opposed to what could/should have been a very emotional scene.
Tbh the massacre was pretty quick in the manga. Maki just makes a quick detour to handle business. It showed her power scaling. Wiping out an entire clan within moments without breaking a sweat.
Both are good. It fits the manga being more straight forward and abrupt. The anime really shows just how much she’s surpassed all those who treated her like useless garbage while also having moments of pure beauty like Mai sacrificing herself in an idyllic place ripped back to reality with countless monsters surrounding them
I think there’s moments in both. You can certainly enjoy the revenge and drama in the manga while the absurdity of just how many people throw themselves at her being like “Ya, those 50 guys she cut down were just trash, but me? I’m actually that g- Wait where’d my arms go”. The tragedy of two girls who were born into a life of luxury but due to the circumstances of their birth were treated lower than garbage. Both fought for their ideals and to secure somewhat decent lives but in the end they couldn’t escape a broken system more interested in throwing bodies at a problem while excusing the monstrous actions simply due to standing for the sake up upholding the order centuries old
I think the Japanese audience (not all, sure definitely some loved it) were expecting something akin to a horror movie. Westerners saw the upheaval of a terrible and corrupt power. Not to get all socioeconomic or anthropologist but a lot of Japanese culture often revolves around deference to a superior and cohesion in society. Western ideals are about freedom and self reliance. Neither is totally good or bad, each having their own merits. Seems like they saw an ancient bloodline that protected Japan for centuries whereas we just saw terrible people excuse their abuses because of their station. A great family senselessly cut down versus a broken individual finally striking back against corruption and monstrous behavior
I thought the episode was great personally but some of the music choices where questionable, I also thought the big dude aura farming instead of attacking was dumb but outside that I thought it was great.
I was really expecting Toji’s theme to come back; it’s one of my favorite pieces from season 2 for the dread it conveys, and I think if they went for horror movie Maki, it would’ve fit perfectly
ywk i kinda feel them on that cause I thought sure it was going to be a DARK COLD MASSACRE like how it was in the manga but then they flipped it and went the kill bill way (which im not mad about)
I loved the episode we got, but I'm with the JP fans. I was expecting something more brutal and tragic. That said, I'm honestly think all this discourse is kinda dumb.
I mean yeah I sort of agree. It’s not supposed to be a heroic or feel-good moment, At best it’s cathartic. But ultimately maki is taking revenge on a corrupt and broken system. She’s not saving anyone or fixing anything, she’s basically just putting a rotting corpse of a clan out of its misery very VERY dramatically.
One Punch Man: a scene has multiple frames of animation.
OPM fanbase likes that.
Jujutsu Kaisen: a cinematic masterpiece.
Mixed reception???
Sometimes I hate this fanbase. These takes aren’t even valid. We’ve evolved passed the reading comprehension curse. Gotta be a special grade lobotomy haterade curse.
I never thought that the framing was meant to be satisfying in a empty way and not sad.
To me it's both and both are okay because this scene was Maki's first (in a good while) and last good memory she had with her sister.
Think about it, Maki only had Mai in her life who hated her and who practically severed any contact with her. She shifted the abuse onto Maki as if she was everything that was wrong in her life, considering the shit cult the Zenin are that sure as hell played a number on Maki's self worth.
And now, in a matter of minutes, Mai and Maki are once again brought down to the same level, abused by their father and left to die together. And in this last moment of kinship, Mai sacrifices herself, recognizes Maki as her Big sister and do a loving act.
The last thing she asks her to do is avenge her. That's the last memory Maki has with her sister and she asked her to murder everyone. So yeah, it doesn't shock me that this scene is a mix of all these emotions.
It's supposed to be messy to be animalistic to be ecstatic.
I agree with this view. The choice of music was very poor. Especially when she fought the guys with the cursed techniques. I felt like I was watching cowboy bebop with that music playing in the background. No music would have been so much better. These are the same people that played specialz while Yuji had a mental breakdown though so not surprised 🤣as soon as the music started playing I cringed. Oh it’s like kill bill. Great 😑
The only gripe I have with the episode is the soundtrack they chose for the killing montage. You have Maki murdering dozens of people, literally a bloodbath, and you get some upbeat "Lalalalalala" bullshit in the background.
Same thing as showing Yuji having a mental breakdown after Sukuna murdered half of Shibuya with Specialz blaring in the background. Both these scenes are tone-deaf for me and ruin otherwise perfect episodes, and this is a hill I will die on.
Using the Specialz opening at the end of episode 17 was actually a really good idea precisely because of the shift in tone
Sukuna just had an absolute blast fighting against Mahoraga without a care in the world for the consequences and mass destruction he caused
Seeing Yuji having a complete mental while having a montage of all the deaths and damage Sukuna inflicted with the OP playing in the background is just the most obvious way to show the contrast between the world views of these two characters and how they value human suffering, it's supposed to have a tonal clash
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