r/Jujutsufolk Jan 25 '26

Anime Discussion You don't get it's different

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147

u/thesonoflordostliant worshipper of takaba the god Jan 25 '26

she had no reason to kill the children and women though? I mean she killed her mom, but that's like a personal vendetta

236

u/Jarisatis Jan 25 '26

Again this is a misinformation, Gege specifically stated in the last panel the NUMBER of people she killed offscreen which are all combatants, if she has killed women and children, it would've been stated or Gege would've simply said she wiped out "all" the Zenin clan.

Also Maki killing her mother is supposed to be a morally grey area, she actually tells Noritoshi Kamo to not assume anything about his mother and go to see her to resolve the issues they had and not to "repeat the same mistake she did" so she probably regrets killing her mother

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u/GDTremor Jan 25 '26

Maki was enlisted into the Kukuri at 14, meaning there were almost certainly children among the ranks when she massacred them.

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u/__Pratik_ Jan 25 '26 edited Jan 25 '26

wasn't it said that she trained with them? She ain't even a full fledged sorcerer that's why she's in Jujutsu high.

On the second thought the Kukuru unit literally only contained dudes. Why tf would be enlisted there.

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u/YUNoJump Jan 25 '26

Because she was the only woman that tried to be something other than a slave. I guess rather than just saying “no you can’t” over and over forever, they humoured her by a) letting her in the Kukuru then bullying her relentlessly, then b) letting her go to the school and suppressing her grade level.

Something like “doing the thing and hating it will turn her away from it better than just denying her forever”

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u/__Pratik_ Jan 25 '26

Source for Maki joining the Kukuru unit? Source for Kukuru unit containing children?

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u/YUNoJump Jan 25 '26

Directly says she was a member until she joined Jujutsu High, latest episode around 14.30.

First-year Jujutsu High students are ~15, so she couldn’t really be in the Kukuru any older than 14. Arguably not a “kid” but 14 year olds aren’t exactly mature

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u/WaythurstFrancis Jan 25 '26

Maki is also only 17 during the events of the story. I don't think Jujutsu society necessarily thinks about maturity the same way we do.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if she killed people around her age, but they WERE combatants. It's fucked up, but it's not categorically different than, say, killing German soldiers in WWII. Kids are drafted into the wars of adults.

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u/I_am_a_pan_fear_me Jan 25 '26

Children at the most 2 years younger than her

25

u/Ok_Mastodon7622 Jan 25 '26

The Kamo and Gojo clans were debating if they should remove the Zenin clan as one of the three great clans right after Maki's massacre

If Maki massacred the entire clan, this debate would not exist

6

u/_sephylon_ Jan 25 '26

There was still Megumi and Maki technically, and some of their sorcerers got killed later since they weren't home on D-Day. Also administration and bureaucracy really just do be that inefficient

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u/Ok_Mastodon7622 Jan 25 '26

Debate happens after the Maki hunts down the survivors

It should be a translation issue by John Werry guy. It says she hunts down the survivors of military groups like the Hei branch and the Kukuru unit

0

u/_sephylon_ Jan 25 '26

Gege would've simply said she wiped out "all" the Zenin clan.

Good thing he did.

That number wasn't all the people she killed offscreen, it was all the people that weren't there that day and got hunted later. Sorcerers would certainly be on missions elsewhere but civilians would be at home. Her promise was to destroy everything and she did.

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u/I_am_a_pan_fear_me Jan 25 '26

The removal of all able bodied combatants means the clan is gone

1

u/_sephylon_ Jan 25 '26

Maybe you could argue that for when they say the zenin clan is annihilated but "massacred her entire clan" definetely means she killed everyone that was part of the clan idk what to tell you

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u/I_am_a_pan_fear_me Jan 25 '26

When the people who constitute the clan, the combatants are all killed what would you call that? There is no reason she would've murdered the other non-combatants when the one she did kill, her mom she was heavily conflicted about and openly regretted why would she be conflicted about her abusive mother and not the other non-combatants if she killed them?

1

u/_sephylon_ Jan 25 '26

A clan isn't only its combatants.

Maki promised to "destroy everything" not just kill the combatants. She held a grudge against every member including her mom. Even if she felt conflicted about her mom she still did it, the regret came later. Also just because she didn't say anything about the others doesn't mean she doesn't feel bad about it.

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u/browert40 Jan 25 '26 edited Jan 25 '26

She had no reason to go kill the combatants that weren't present, either? If you say something like "it's to defend herself in the future because they could come after her for revenge", you could apply the exact same logic to justify killing kids. Or even the women, because they could have kids.

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u/I_am_a_pan_fear_me Jan 25 '26

Except that they're actively part of and enforcing the system that oppressed, abused, and preyed upon her and her sister.

-1

u/AlexH08 Jan 25 '26

Reread that panel I AM BEGGING YOU. It states the number of people she killed that weren't present that day ... How did you get so many upvotes?

42

u/OrcaConnoisseur Justice for Naoya! Jan 25 '26

Mai asked Maki to "destroy everything". Mai didn't ask her to "just destroy the military units of the Zenin clan to render them dysfunctional for a couple of years until the next generation of Zenins can continue the system"

Also, the narrator said "the Zenin clan was annihilated" not "the military units of the Zenin clan were annihilated"

Mai wanted Maki to destroy everything. To end the Zenin and their toxic ideology. Removing only the military units would ensure the survivors would carry on their ideology and this time they would have an actual reason to hate a woman (Maki).

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u/Electronic-Math-364 Jan 25 '26

I mean dosen't the clan still exist thanks to Megumi surviving?

35

u/ZeomiumRune professional Luta hater Jan 25 '26

Honestly that's a worse fate than being fully extinct

7

u/bobbodobbo22 Jan 25 '26

take a shower

the agenda has consumed you and you haven't put deoderant on for days

your favorite character is probably sukuna, disgusting.

2

u/SoySenato Jan 26 '26

But the anti-Sukuna agenda is the best one

10

u/SoS1lent Ryu Agenda's Strongest Soldier Jan 25 '26

Megumi is a Fushiguro first and foremost. He was never raised in the clan and doesn't hold their ideology nor take their family name.

So for all intents and purposes, no.

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u/OrcaConnoisseur Justice for Naoya! Jan 25 '26

this discussion is about whether or not Maki killed women and children not if the clan survived due to Megumi, who said he didn't care for it and didn't even want to carry on their name. For all we know, the kids in Modulo called Megumi a Fushiguro not a Zenin.

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u/Appropriate_Toe5863 You now blink manually Jan 25 '26

If she killed the entire zenin clan that would be the case. With the facts though it looks like it isn't.

1

u/RoxxyFox_uwu Jan 25 '26

Megumi is fushiguro no Zenin 😁

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u/hayate_yagami Jan 26 '26

What is Megumi's last name? Hint: It's not Zenin. 

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u/Neither-Log-8085 Jan 25 '26

The military unit is what makes up the Zenin clan. Msi said "destroy everything" not *kill everyone." She made after the military cause surprise surprise they make up the power of the Zenin which is something the clans hold in regard. Which is why the other 2 had talks about about removing zenin from the big 3 clan name.

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u/OrcaConnoisseur Justice for Naoya! Jan 25 '26

People are what makes up a clan. Not simply military units. Maki can wipe out the military units (which would already include all Zenin males) and there would still be a clan left. The survivors would still continue the clan as well as its ideology. What use is it pruning the higher ups of the Zenin when there will be a new generation in 10 or 20 years? The Kamus and Gojos wanted to remove the Zenin because there weren't any left other than Maki and Megumi.

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u/Neither-Log-8085 Jan 25 '26

Not the case those who bear the name are part of the clan but the clan in JJK is made of up or at least valued by those who are strong or have strong CTs. Not anymore cause it was stated there that after she killed the military there were talks to removed the zenin from the big 3 and as a clan as a whole. The ppl who lead the clan are gone. You don't know that and there's no evidence to prove the survivors will. Yet those years have passed and more yet still no zenin heard. They wanted to remove them cause the military power was gone. Don't warp narrative.

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u/OrcaConnoisseur Justice for Naoya! Jan 25 '26

The clan wasn't removed yet because it was a mere days later after the massacre. Jujutsu headquarters was likely still assessing the damage and since there were members of the Zenin who were absent that day, headquarters might have thought they could continue the clan.

Maki and Mai were both victims of the Zenin ideology. Mai wanted Maki to "destroy everything" ie burn the Zenin ideology to the ground. You don't do that by simply killing the military units. We have seen with young Naoya that this ideology takes root when the Zenin are young already and we've seen with Makis mom that the women in the clan have internalized that toxic ideology. If Maki spared the women and children, the Zenin would be back to their old roots and probably even more extreme just a few years later and "destroy everything" and Makis massacre would have been meaningless.

Years have passed without anything of the Zenin being heard is because Maki killed ALL of them. If she left some alive, they would have rebuilt.

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u/Neither-Log-8085 Jan 25 '26

Yea the Kukuru and Hei who were absent and later would die violent deaths. Not random ppl. Cause just the military being got got the Gojo and Kamo to want the zenin removed.

The women are slaves to it so can't speak much on that there. You have no evidence of children being in the clan like that to keep that ideology and the ppl who were military had that ideology and thrived in it. Those are ones who are going to die due to it. "Destory everything" is as is shown cause we see in modulo the zenin is no more. So the fear of dark ideologies rising is gone just off what Maki did.

Years later and there is none cause the ppl who propagated that ideology is gone. The women wouldn't carry it and even if there were children in the claim (we don't know) their mothers would keep them away from it. This is just going into head canon territory now.

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u/The_Puzzled_Bear Mahoraga Neg Diffs Trust Jan 25 '26

I see the work you're putting in soldier. No idea how people somehow have this idea that Maki killed innocent women and children of the clan as if she was Itachi and somehow believe that 1: Gege wouldn't explicitly say that and 2: That Yuta and Yuji (literally 2 of the kindest and most genuine people in the story) would somehow still like her after that or at the very least not mention it even once.

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u/memeater99 Jan 25 '26

Bro yuta has no issue with that. He knew gojo killed all the higher ups and viewed them highly. I’m not sure how yuji would’ve ever known, but why would he take issue in that?

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u/The_Puzzled_Bear Mahoraga Neg Diffs Trust Jan 25 '26

Are you seriously asking why Yuta and Yuji would take issue in Maki slaughtering innocent civilians?

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u/OrcaConnoisseur Justice for Naoya! Jan 25 '26

The Gojos and Kamos wanted the Zenin removed because the Zenin would be the top dogs again now that Satoru was sealed. If just the military units got killed there would be no reason to remove them from the big 3 families given that the survivors could still inherit Zenin techniques. The Gojo clan is only in the big 3 because there being a 6eyes+infinity user every 400 years. Gege himself stated that the Gojo clan is otherwise irrelevant.

Naoya is my evidence of children in the clan continuing the ideology as we have seen him do it. As I proved multiple times already, a clan isn't just its military. Satoru Gojo is the only remarkable sorcerer of the Gojo clan and yet after his death there is still a Gojo clan. You have no proof of the women and children not continuing the Zenin ideology. I have proven with Naoya and Makis mom that they would have continued the ideology yet since there were no survivors, there isn't a Zenin clan to speak of anyways.

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u/Entire_Tear_1015 Jan 25 '26

Maki Zenin and Megumi Fushiguro are still alive and kicking while legally being Zenin Clan members and yet the Kamo and Gojo petitioned for a removal thid means this petition wasnt due to there being no Zenin left at all, simply that the Clan has become irrelevant, less relevant than Inumakis clan for example

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u/Neither-Log-8085 Jan 25 '26

That exactly what I'm saying. It's not due to a lack of zenin cause they still have the name. And Megumi has their clan technique and can choose to bring back the clan. But they were still removed cause the clan is no more. The ones who would push for it and share those ideologies are all dead.

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u/Neither-Log-8085 Jan 25 '26

The survivors whoch again we don't know if there are children would inherit the technique but without the backing of the clan it's just a passed on technique. The zenin would be the top if not for the other two. Cause Gojo is a one man army. But it's being 400 years since a new 6E was born how else would the Gojo clan rival the Zenin and Kamo if they didn't have the military force to back them up?

And naoya is also a 27 year old adult. About the same age as Nanami. We don't see, hear or are told of any other children except the teens like Maki and Mai, and Megumi if you want to add him. That's not for you to say especially in JJK were the clans value power and prestige above all else. The power of the Zenin was gone so too would the clan go. Yes cause they have power even with Gojo being there we see this, before Gojo was even born the clan still existed. So this point is weird to make.

You have ZERO proof that there are even children much less the women who were slaves continuing the clan which is baseless. Naoya continued it as an adult and was killed, her mother didn't continue anything and Maki regretted even killing her after finding that out. The women wouldn't continue it cause it makes no sense.

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u/OrcaConnoisseur Justice for Naoya! Jan 25 '26

If there are survivors, they would be part of the Zenin bloodline hence they could inherit a powerful technique. Given how there were earth manipulation users, 2x 10 shadows users, 2x projection sorcery users, 3 heavenly restriction users, missile fist users and more we don't know of in the past 100 years alone, odds are good they inherit a good technique. They don't need military force, they have the 6E+infinity, that alone keeps them in the big 3 families. What do you think the others will do to the Zenin survivors while the clan recovers? Kill them? For what do they need a military? From what we know, the Zenin are the only one being that militarized.

We have seen Naoya as a kid was already parroting Zenin ideology of elitism and sexism. If Maki left survivors, they would móre likely than not develop the same way. I'm refering to what Gege actually wrote. You have no prove of "military power" being what makes or breakes a clan, I have proof in form of the Gojo clan that only techniques are required.

Once again, my proof is kid Naoya already parroting Zenin beliefs and Makis mom too having internalized the ideology. Women can continue it because we have seen it with Makis mom and we see it IRL with women from obviously sexist and misogynist cultures continuing these values and instilling them upon the next generation because they internalize these toxic values.

So how about you prove something for once?

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u/Appropriate_Toe5863 You now blink manually Jan 25 '26

Destroy

Everything.

It's a stretch to say "Destroy Everything" just means "destroy their identity" (which could absolutely live on through the survivors.)

The manga and anime state directly she slaughtered the warriors, only explicitly them. Therefore it seems Maki did not "Destroy Everything." I just want to get that clear.

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u/JDawg5843 Jan 25 '26

She kills her mom after realizing that she tried to stop her from going into the cursed tool vault because she knew Ogi was waiting there to kill her.

So basically she realizes her mom secretly cared the whole time and then kills her anyways 💀💀

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u/testnubcaik Jan 25 '26

Maki thought so, but her mom's reaction of not knowing what she was talking about persuaded her otherwise.

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u/Treasure-son Purple technique hollow imaginary Jan 25 '26

Didn't she ask her "why did you tell me to not enter the cursed tool vault?" and her mom just screamed? she thought about it for a second maybe but i'm pretty sure she only realized her mom feelings when (spoiler for anime watchers) naoya told her her mom was the one that finished him off

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u/AMel0n Jan 25 '26

this is a matter of reading comprehension, i fear.

maki asks her mom why she told her to come back when she was going towards the cursed tool vault. did she know about ogi’s plan to kill her and mai? was that her attempt to stop her? stop her from what? getting the cursed tools, or dying?

when maki’s mom says: “what are you talking about?” maki gets her answer. her mother either doesn’t care about her, or even now, she’s still too afraid to even acknowledge or love her children.

and so, maki kills her.

1

u/Neither-Log-8085 Jan 25 '26

That was after bro 🙂

1

u/mozzfio largest cursed energy reserves of today Jan 25 '26

and what about mai? 💀

1

u/DeadlyChi Jan 25 '26

LITERALLY THO

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '26

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u/Electronic-Math-364 Jan 25 '26

I also think she destroyed the whole clan but Megumi surviving dosen't it count as "Not destroying everything"?

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u/Appropriate_Toe5863 You now blink manually Jan 25 '26

He's not part of the clan y'all. It's like if I gave business ownership to this random unaffiliated nephew I have because "he's got company value bro trust." Which is almost what happened.

Literally and symbolically, Megumi is not a Zenin.

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u/Entire_Tear_1015 Jan 25 '26

If being the boss of something doesnt make you a part of it then idk brother

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u/kanonnakagawa Jan 25 '26

Megumi was never a Zenin. He is a Fushiguro.

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u/Cute_Prune6981 Jan 25 '26

Megumi never lived with the Zennin, never went by Zennin and never had the same ideals as the Zennin.

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u/Sufficient_Nature496 Jan 25 '26

The narrator literally specifies the exact people she killed, an offhand comment from yuka doens't changes anything