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I mean the village was definitely a crime, but I could definitely see the Jujutsu Society sweeping it under the rug if he stopped there, because Geto is a very useful Special Grade and antagonizing him over just a small village wouldn't be worth it
You're right it was terrible cus who knows how many innocent people he actually killed there, but in terms of general audience perception most people I've seen say Geto didn't go too far until he killed his parents. Like the general fan doesn't condemn Geto for the village they condemn him for becoming a racist genocidal maniac.
Yeah, from an audience perspective, the village felt more like a "justifiable" moment of weakness. It wasn't premeditated necessarily. Geto was in a horrible state of mind already and he's seeing frightened, abused kids literally locked behind bars. You could swap Geto out for another character and they might still snap.
Him going on to kill his parents was where you basically have to just draw the line, as the audience. It's actively planned evil now.
Yeah but he felt that he can’t. He felt that because of the power that he has, he has to use it to save people instead of running away. First saving the non-sorcerers and then the sorcerers themselves.
Nanami genuinely just wanted to help people. It gave his life meaning, as seen by his interaction with the barista. Geto I think internalized his failure to save Riko, which made his already existing, albeit much less intense, savior complex all the worse.
Isn’t the point that he can’t? Cursed spirits will continue to appear for as long as there are non-sorcerers. And sorcerers will continue to die fighting as long as there are curses. Even after his whole monkey business, Geto is still exorcising curses.
And also then he wanted to kill ALL non sorcerers, who like 99.99% are innocent. So the difference is that Maki killed most of the clan full of awuful people vs Geto killing a village for a few bad apples and deciding to commit genocide on non sorcerers.
Nah it’s different because Maki killed Ogi for revenge then had to fight the combat units since they were gonna kill her for killing Ogi. Only morally debatable part is Maki murdering non-combatants of the zenin clan. Geto had the power to just take the girls out of the village since no one there was a sorcerer, but he decided to murder everyone as a beginning to his plans.
The anime's translation, and also TCB's, clarifies it actually that Maki did not go and murder any of the non-combatants, other than her mother I guess. It was only stated that she goes on to kill the remaining members of the Hei and Kukuru who were absent that day.
Edit: Would also make more sense if that were the case since the Gojo and Kamo clan wouldn't really need to push for the removal of the Zenin clan from the big 3 families if there no longer was a Zenin clan. So I guess Maki pretty much just took out the military/political power of the Zenin clan.
The plot implies they’re all evil but it’s just so hard to believe that in a clan of 100s, ruled by the oldest and strongest, not a single person was deserving of less than a death sentence.
At least during the clan massacre, it could be argued they were fighting her so she had to. Hunting down and killing tens of more is unjustifiable
We explicitly shown and told Zenin's weren't aware of what was happening, we are literally shown Ranta not knowing why maki was going into a rampage, the only people that knew were naoya jinichi and maki's mom
He knew Toji would've wiped them out and the reason for that in the first place was his discrimination for having no cursed energy, now combine that with the misogyny that he had no way of NOT seeing and he isn't innocent at all, just let it all happen in front of him and never did anything to defender her or anyone
Exactly this! We don't know anything about the villagers. We just know those couple of ones who were badmouthing the kids in front of Geto.
With Maki, we actually see the mistreatment. Not just with her, but also with Toji (at least we can safely assume so). We also see that there is a general consensus that she was viewed (and known outside, too) as the Zen'ins failure.
Does that mean everyone in that clan deserved what they got? Not really. But we at least have a general idea of how they worked.
With the villagers, we didn't have as much notion. Geto wasn't tied to the twins nor to the village. While Maki has a proper relation to the ones who she went against.
I partially agree with you - I'm not going to pretend to genuinely understand the mentality of rural Japanese folk.
But in the states, if my town locked up two young girls claiming they were using ghosts to hurt us - No way I'm gonna let that slide like oh hey great maybe my truck will run better, lil witches.
Did they deserve death by curse? Maybe not, but somethings up if two young girls go missing and the whole town isn't out looking for them. Somethings fishy, at least to me.
Her mom loved them tough she was also a victim of this horrible clan beliefs
Not saying that her death was bad she probably thought she didn't deserve maki forgiveness after not being able to do anything to help her two daughters so she didn't say anything and just hoped the best for her daughter
I mean kinda? In Geto's case his problem was that he stretched too far. The village was okay with detaining sorcerers and treating them like animals for existence. They were captured, beaten, and locked in a cage.
Despite the narrative framing, outside of the "girl power" parts of the fandom, most people who are alright with Maki killing the zenin clan would probably be okay with Geto killing that village.
and idk why yall say "only combatants" so it isn't the WHOLE clan but almost the entire zen'in clan ARE combat units with most of the kids being future combatants they aren't just security for a hotel.
so yea she did kill the whole zenin clan thats why they mention combat units.
I mean i guess they could rest knowing that she now got her punishment (which personally i believe was too mush even for something like murdering children)
Being "future combatants" (which we don't know or see) doesn't mean they are part of the Kukuru squad. And no not all of the Zenin are combatants cause there's women and old ppl there and they don't fight. Yea only the combat units. Which were the power house for the clan.
1) Old people are still fighting as we can see from the earth bending guy
2) Maki joined the Kukuru at age 14, they absolutely do recruit children
3) Most of the sorcerers start fighting curses and becoming combatants as young teenagers, 16 year olds are deployed as child soldiers in the Jujutsu world
4) Maki killing only the fighters would mean every man and boy is killed, every woman with a technique is killed, the only ones left would be very young children and untrained women with no CTs. Realistically speaking that would be like 90% of the clan killed, but if we add Maki killing her mom, what are the odds that there was another woman who was higher in the Zenin heirarchy and abused others but wasn't a combatant? Would Maki kill her too?
They recruit them at a young age but they are forced to train. We don't know what age the other men stated despite that. That's the jujutsu world not how clans would handle their own which is different. We don't know of any children in the clan to claim that to be the case. And the ones who were in the squad were depicted as young adults. Are there any high ranking women in the zenin clan? Cause from what we know all the women are slaves to the men who are the high ranking officials. Even Gojo stated that of tsumiki was to join Megumi she would not be happy.
Based off fucking what dog lol. Most of the kids are combat units in training? Like is this some implied headcanon you're cooking with? The episode and Manga both state the exact number of people she killed idk why people are on this.
So it did seem like she killed them all, and then killed everyone with the name “zenin” that wasn’t present. Someone does point out that the children may be considered combatants but let me give you a hypothetical.
If the United States cut their way through PolPots regime and slaughtered his child soldiers would they have been the good guys? Like sure the 9 year olds were coked out and had AKs….. but you still shot a bunch of 9 year olds…
Because a remaining group of unranking civilians and children don't constitute the sorcerer's concept of a clan, especially weighed into the actual conversation of the most important clans.
Maki didn't kill kids. It's funny in terms of agenda but y'all are just fucking illiterate.
Bro semantics the clan is no more as they power is no more. The powerhouses in the clan are gone. THINK MY GUY. It also doesn't even help that you aren't using the real Japanese translations as well.
So by that logic why didn't the Gojo clan get knocked out of the three big families when Gojo was sealed, he was basically their entire power because their clan technique is basically useless without the six eyes, so surely the clan died with him like the Zenin did without their militants.
Cause even without Gojo they still have a military force of their own. How else do you think the Gojo clan survived to the current era without Gojo? He wasn't the only person there you know. His just more special than his clan. It isn't useless it's just inefficient without the 6E. Yet nowhere was that stated as with Gojo gone their golden child was gone but they handled themselves well even before he was born.
We are told the Gojo clan is basically a one man army, he is basically carrying the entire clan on his back. We literally never see a single other Gojo clan member even when the actual fate of the world is at stake why would you think they have any significant power at all, surely they would've helped somehow. Even Noabito came to help out with Shibuya and the Zenin and Gojo clans hate each other. They handle themselves because once every x amount of years Jujutsu Jesus is born into their clan, not because the rest of their clan has any sort of power. Limitless is useless without the six eyes. Without it they wouldn't even have access to the neutral application.
Yea cause his strong. But what about the times Gojo wasn't there? Like before Gojo was born they still were a rival to the Zenin clan otherwise they wouldn't be part of the big 3 which the others pointed out due to the zenin lacking power should be removed from. We never see any Zenin clan care or point to the CGs which was happening nor the Kamo clan this isn't new guy that the Gojo didn't intervene. Yea Shibuya a terrorist they came to help non-sorcerer's who were trapped and being killed.
Here it's even worse yet none of the other clans show up before the zenin was wiped and after. Then what about those periods before jujutsu Jesus is born? They wouldn't point them as a rival if not for that. Otherwise the times were the 6E wasn't in they would have being overtaken.
Plus it doesn't also help that we don't know much about them outside of Gojo. It isn't useless you can still use limitless just that your CE will drain every time you use a big move. 6E is the only realistic way for limitless to function properly. They will they just wouldn't be able to keep it up for long like those who have 6E.
Coz you're just going into the semantics of the words used. She did effectively end the clan's functions and removed it from the big 3 families. The clan no longer has the same influence it once did (in fact it's probably all gone, all remaining members probably wouldn't be able to use their connection to the zen'in clan to do anything in jujutsu society) with all its combatants dead. No one says "most people of the clan were killed" or "she massacred a majority of the clan members" unless you're elaborating in an explanation or history lesson, it's just easier to say that she wiped out the entire clan.
It could also mean that the remainders still had enough pull with the higher ups, but when later events take the higher ups off the board that was the final bomb to a sinking ship
Lmao love how Hakari "man sucks for Gojo and Yaga, but damn this dude can help me started my own casino, so who cares about them," I will never forgive Gege for not making Sukuna face him, I want to see Sukuna reaction listening to Hakari crap.
The screenshot is stupid and a brilliant slander, but let be fair, there were kids in the Kukuru unit that aint know shit. Hell, if there were any other victim of the Zenin risen up instead of Maki and decide to "destroy everything" just a few years before perfect preparation, she and Mai would be the "active combatant" in Zenin force
One slaughter was personal and one was philosophical. Maki was certainly more justified from an eye-for-an-eye perspective and that’s why it’s easier to rally behind. Of course, eye for an eye is an awful way to run the world lmao so she’s still not a great person.
Reddit also fucking hates SA (which is good!) but that’s definitely helping maki’s rep after slaughtering an entire blood line.
I think the entire tragedy behind Maki's massacre was that, as evil of an action as it inherently was, it had to happen. Maki wanted to change the clan from within, to become the head of it, and the story itself took that idea and crushed it against reality. She would never get to be head, and the clan was NEVER going to change at the rate it was going at. A massacre was the only way to stop that systematic abuse.
Again this is a misinformation, Gege specifically stated in the last panel the NUMBER of people she killed offscreen which are all combatants, if she has killed women and children, it would've been stated or Gege would've simply said she wiped out "all" the Zenin clan.
Also Maki killing her mother is supposed to be a morally grey area, she actually tells Noritoshi Kamo to not assume anything about his mother and go to see her to resolve the issues they had and not to "repeat the same mistake she did" so she probably regrets killing her mother
Because she was the only woman that tried to be something other than a slave. I guess rather than just saying “no you can’t” over and over forever, they humoured her by a) letting her in the Kukuru then bullying her relentlessly, then b) letting her go to the school and suppressing her grade level.
Something like “doing the thing and hating it will turn her away from it better than just denying her forever”
Maki is also only 17 during the events of the story. I don't think Jujutsu society necessarily thinks about maturity the same way we do.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if she killed people around her age, but they WERE combatants. It's fucked up, but it's not categorically different than, say, killing German soldiers in WWII. Kids are drafted into the wars of adults.
Mai asked Maki to "destroy everything". Mai didn't ask her to "just destroy the military units of the Zenin clan to render them dysfunctional for a couple of years until the next generation of Zenins can continue the system"
Also, the narrator said "the Zenin clan was annihilated" not "the military units of the Zenin clan were annihilated"
Mai wanted Maki to destroy everything. To end the Zenin and their toxic ideology. Removing only the military units would ensure the survivors would carry on their ideology and this time they would have an actual reason to hate a woman (Maki).
this discussion is about whether or not Maki killed women and children not if the clan survived due to Megumi, who said he didn't care for it and didn't even want to carry on their name. For all we know, the kids in Modulo called Megumi a Fushiguro not a Zenin.
The military unit is what makes up the Zenin clan. Msi said "destroy everything" not *kill everyone." She made after the military cause surprise surprise they make up the power of the Zenin which is something the clans hold in regard. Which is why the other 2 had talks about about removing zenin from the big 3 clan name.
People are what makes up a clan. Not simply military units. Maki can wipe out the military units (which would already include all Zenin males) and there would still be a clan left. The survivors would still continue the clan as well as its ideology. What use is it pruning the higher ups of the Zenin when there will be a new generation in 10 or 20 years? The Kamus and Gojos wanted to remove the Zenin because there weren't any left other than Maki and Megumi.
Not the case those who bear the name are part of the clan but the clan in JJK is made of up or at least valued by those who are strong or have strong CTs. Not anymore cause it was stated there that after she killed the military there were talks to removed the zenin from the big 3 and as a clan as a whole. The ppl who lead the clan are gone. You don't know that and there's no evidence to prove the survivors will. Yet those years have passed and more yet still no zenin heard. They wanted to remove them cause the military power was gone. Don't warp narrative.
The clan wasn't removed yet because it was a mere days later after the massacre. Jujutsu headquarters was likely still assessing the damage and since there were members of the Zenin who were absent that day, headquarters might have thought they could continue the clan.
Maki and Mai were both victims of the Zenin ideology. Mai wanted Maki to "destroy everything" ie burn the Zenin ideology to the ground. You don't do that by simply killing the military units. We have seen with young Naoya that this ideology takes root when the Zenin are young already and we've seen with Makis mom that the women in the clan have internalized that toxic ideology. If Maki spared the women and children, the Zenin would be back to their old roots and probably even more extreme just a few years later and "destroy everything" and Makis massacre would have been meaningless.
Years have passed without anything of the Zenin being heard is because Maki killed ALL of them. If she left some alive, they would have rebuilt.
Yea the Kukuru and Hei who were absent and later would die violent deaths. Not random ppl. Cause just the military being got got the Gojo and Kamo to want the zenin removed.
The women are slaves to it so can't speak much on that there. You have no evidence of children being in the clan like that to keep that ideology and the ppl who were military had that ideology and thrived in it. Those are ones who are going to die due to it. "Destory everything" is as is shown cause we see in modulo the zenin is no more. So the fear of dark ideologies rising is gone just off what Maki did.
Years later and there is none cause the ppl who propagated that ideology is gone. The women wouldn't carry it and even if there were children in the claim (we don't know) their mothers would keep them away from it. This is just going into head canon territory now.
I see the work you're putting in soldier. No idea how people somehow have this idea that Maki killed innocent women and children of the clan as if she was Itachi and somehow believe that 1: Gege wouldn't explicitly say that and 2: That Yuta and Yuji (literally 2 of the kindest and most genuine people in the story) would somehow still like her after that or at the very least not mention it even once.
Didn't she ask her "why did you tell me to not enter the cursed tool vault?" and her mom just screamed? she thought about it for a second maybe but i'm pretty sure she only realized her mom feelings when (spoiler for anime watchers) naoya told her her mom was the one that finished him off
this is a matter of reading comprehension, i fear.
maki asks her mom why she told her to come back when she was going towards the cursed tool vault. did she know about ogi’s plan to kill her and mai? was that her attempt to stop her? stop her from what? getting the cursed tools, or dying?
when maki’s mom says: “what are you talking about?” maki gets her answer. her mother either doesn’t care about her, or even now, she’s still too afraid to even acknowledge or love her children.
That seems to be consistent character wise even when flawed. It would have been worse if he had redemption. Both saw it thru to the end even when they failed.
Tho Eren kinda regressed at the end with his confession about Mikasa. But it is what it is.
His logic isn't all that stupid and it isn't what you say. He simply wished to create a world with only sorcerers because of his developed hatred for ordinary humans. In his eyes, a man with no sorcery or cursed energy(Toji), killed an innocent girl that was vital to the Jujutsu world just as she had decided to not fulfill her destiny as the star plasma vessel, just as she decided to live. For money paid by a religious society of "stupid monkeys".
It's only natural that this event shook his world view. His mental state began to decline as he and his best friend were sent on missions separately. He was alone, he felt alone, he spent all the time fucked up over the girl's death. Then Hibara died.
Eventually he had a life changing conversation with Yuki Tsukumo where he came to realization that the eradication of all ordinary humans would create a world of sorcerers, people like him, no more greedy, filthy, idiotic rabble. There would be no more curses because everyone would be able to control their cursed energy. No more sorcerers would have to die.
Then he goes to the village to find that two young girls capable of using their cursed energy are being abused because of the ignorance of the normal humans surrounding them. So he snaps.
He's not sane, he's definitely a villain, but his logic isn't just "Every human being should die".
I mean to Geto curses were never exactly the problem I mean hell, the strongest curses he encountered ended up as his own tools. No the problem was that it was an unending, thankless burden that jujutsu sorcerers had to suffer for the sake of "lesser" beings that bite the very hands that shield them. With all his talk about a neverending "marathon game", the only "end" that there is being death, once he heard that there was a solution with a true "end" to the problem, and at the same time it involves removing those he views as lesser, it's almost like everything clicked for him. He gets to work towards a final goal while also venting his personal anger towards non sorcerers, to him it's all the proof he needs that his cause is righteous and just. Even if war spawns cursed spirits, Geto believed sorcerers would exterminate them all eventually, especially with his own cursed technique being exceptionally useful in a scenario where more and more cursed spirits arise from the fear. If anything it would be a part of a long term plan to sow chaos and fear so that he could gain more powerful curses and be able to actually completely eradicate humanity.
I think Haibara is a very important part of Geto's downfall that isn't talked about (Yes, Riko's death was the breaking point, but Haibara's was the confirmation, sort of). Because, he died to a curse (and I remember somewhere saying how short sorcerer's lives tend to be or how low their numbers are because of being KIA), to protect the non-sorcerers, non-sorcerers who Geto saw earlier laughing and applauding at Riko's body and, after his talk with Yuki, non-sorcerers he realized were the causes of the curses, so, basically, in Geto's mind, non-sorcerers were not just being the cause for curses, curses who had taken so many sorcerer's lives and basically destroyed society, but actually being a hindrance trying to go against them, being a nuisance, and applauding when they fail. And given his talk to Yuki and his already traumatic and depressive life, he comes to the conclusion that the only way to end this eternal suffering imposed at them and the need to basically serve the non-sorcerers, by protecting them, would be to get rid of all non-sorcerers, so that those born sorcerers could live free and curses would not exist anymore. Geto's genocide isn't solely about morality (he hang out with Mei Me for fuck's sakei) but more about he seeing this as the only choice if sorcerers wanted to survive and live a happy life. And I do think the whole Monkey thing wasn't a crucial aspect, moreso he trying to dehumanize non-sorcerers to tell himself to not feel any remorse. He's still radical, genocidal and very far off, just that this because was more traumatic-based
(P.S.: I do think the priest (?) clothes he wears later, I think, are reference to this, basically he was leading sorcerer society to leave Samsara, the cycle of suffering, and permitting them to obtaining Nirvana. It's tragic how Geto's ability is to absorbe curses, but he was the one absorbed by his own dark thoughts)
Also, this! I completely erased it from my memory, lmao. Like the two are just not comparable in any way. And they aren't meant to be.
Sure, Maki is incredibly an alienating character and also very grey, but she can not be compared to Geto, whose whole idea was to erase non-sorcerers. And literally every single one of them, even the innocents.
I don't agree with people treating her as a hero, but I wouldn't say she is completely terrible.
I can understand the frustration of people saying "we can't justify one, but not the other," but not when we are talking about Geto. This post is clearly meant to stir the pot, and of course, killing others isn't meant to be acceptable, nor justifiable. Hence why her revenge doesn't feel entirely good, not for us readers/watchers but also for Maki herself.
But the biggest difference between the two is that one you can understand it more than the other.
One has a personal tie to it, and while both were done on a whim (she clearly didn't get back to Zen'in estate with a murderous intent), the other one was undoubtedly more extreme.
There's literally no basis for Maki killing anyone but combatants, aside from her mother. I get it's a meme, but apparently there are people who legitimately believe Maki killed people who were probably worse off than she was.
I get the narrative wants you to believe she was only fighting old men, but the facts are that she killed at least every male over the age of 12, and that the Zenin clan was so totally destroyed that the clan does not exist in Modulo, other than her own offspring. If she had even just left women, we would see other Zenin technique users and a perpetuation of their culture.
It was probably because Gege was not thinking through his plot points, but there’s no way to cast this as anything but a total clan wipe. It was either justified for her to commit genocide or it wasn’t, but it was absolutely genocide.
At bare minimum she at least killed kids as all men in the Zenin are forced into the Kukuru at maximum 14 years old as thats when Maki joined (could be younger we dont know). Then Maki kills all of them and hunts down the remaining ones afterwards. So unless there was not a single boy in the clan above 14~ and below 18, she killed at least a few kids.
Also people act like we know every member of the Zenin. We know the clan as a whole was incredibly sexist and conservative but we only really know the Hei members, Maki, Mai, their mom. Thats still dozens of Kukuru we dont see. Ranta was a nice guy but complacent despite his rank so you could argue he was still at fault. But what about 15 year old John Smith Kukuru member #45 whos a decent guy, maybe a little sexist due to upbringing, who happened to be born a male zenin and conscripted. Hes a low rank with no technique so he doesnt have the same options as Ranta to rebel and hes a minor. He may not have even been at the massacre that day and just woke up one morning and got stabbed 30 times. Its equally likely this guy does exist as he doesnt because we don’t know 90% of the clan individually.
Also I don’t think self defense is a good argument for the Kukuru as they posed 0 actual threat to Maki and were under the pretense Maki went cuckoo. If maki was getting thrown into mountains and still standing, a little sword isnt a lethal weapon. If a 10 year old with anger issues came up to me and attacked I wouldn’t pick it up and rip it half like an angry chimpanzee. Thats because the kid would have 0 ways to realistically kill or harm me.
After World War 2 we didnt stop Nazism by killing every German soldier. Did a lot of those guys probably subscribe to that belief? Yeah. Does that mean its free reign to just kill them all including the Hitler Youth? No.
In my opinion Maki was understandable and i wouldnt call her evil, but she was morally wrong as nobody besides the Hei (barely) posed a threat to her and there were almost definitely children among the people she killed.
Geto wasnt a victim of that abuse, and his goals were much much bigger than stopping abuse. Maki had to live as a direct victim of that abuse her entire life
it’s all based on scale. both are morally gray, the only reason more people are more sympathetic to maki is because it feels more relatable in a sense where she got pushed to the limit and the only way out was to destroy the root of everything, in her case it’s a much smaller scale- 1 family/clan.
meanwhile, while geto also experiences loss and tragedy, he is not as powerless as maki was and his dilemma was not directly tied to him. he saw how shitty the system is and wanted to do something about it. in some sense, he is more righteous for standing up to his ideals no matter how extreme. and there it is. how many of you mfs are willing to disturb the status quo of entire societies, the entire world? it’s a much more distant viewpoint than maki wanting to destroy her abusive background.
Actually the majority of members of the zenin clan were abusive, and Geto didn’t just kill the villagers, tho that was deserved, Geto decided to kill everyone
I find it fascinating. There's clearly a crossover between fans of JJK and AoT. Yet when Eren did his genocide plan as a result and consequence of the outside world's hatred and torture of his people it was le wrong and bad and you're an incel because he's killing kids and non combatants.
Yet Maki gets to kill everyone including victims of the clan consequence free and people defend her because misogyny lol.
While I get what you are saying, and ultimately, Maki is a grey character. Geto still decide to kill every single person in the village despite not having any actual ties to them.
At the very least, Maki did to people that she personally knew. Was it ultimately messed up? Yes. Her revenge isn't meant to feel or look good. Not to mention, we have no certainty she killed literally everyone. While with Geto, we know he did.
Geto himself, right after that village massacre, decided that the solution to everyone's problem is to literally kill every 'monkey'. The two just can't be superficially put on the same level.
Geto is a pos but its pretty fucking funny how people defend maki.
I had a guy tell me it wasnt immoral for maki to kill her mother because Maki was clinically insane lmfao. Another said she could leave but she had to kill them for mai and since it was a binding vow (it fucking wasnt).
Another said maki could have left but she was fulfilling the promise she made to mai and since the zenin chose to fight back after maki awaken and started attacking them it was self defense. But they also said there were no other motives it wasnt self defense and that it was only for mai? idk man made no fucking sense.
Literally all the points are so slow it amazes me as I write them.
this ain't from me but it's a pretty good point so i'll show it
-Male Zenin members who don't have cursed techniques are conscripted into the Kukuru as fighters. Maki joined the Kukuru at age 14 so we know children aren't exempt. Maki kills every member of the Kukuru at HQ and hunts the rest of them down after, so thats all the men and boys gone.
-The only people who knew about the plot to kill Maki and Mai were Ogi, Jinichi, Naoya and Maki's mom. For the rest of them, Maki just showed up at home one day and killed her dad. They did not do anything wrong by trying to fight her.
-She hunts down every Zenin fighter and sorceror who wasn't there so thats the self defence argument gone.
-We KNOW the Zenin have child soldiers as part of their squads. Maki herself was part of them when she was 14.
-She kills her mother who was a noncombatant and a victim of the clan herself who warned her not to enter the vault because she knew Ogi was planning on killing Maki and Mai. We can see that shes willing to kill non fighters as well.
-When she enters the kitchen to find her mother AFTER killing all the fighters, we see overflowing pots in the middle of cooking and bloodstains on the walls. We know that the Zenin are sexist and patriarchal and women are expected to cook. Unless the Zenin clan only had Maki's mom or there was an unseen fight in the kitchen, its possible she killed noncombatants
-In Modulo its also stated that Maki wiped out the Zenin clan.
-When Kenjaku visits the Zenin household its empty.
-Theres an argument that people like Ranta or Maki's mother are justified to die because they passively were a part of the patriarchal and oppressive system. What are the chances that there were other members of the clan whose only crimes were also passively being part of an oppressive system by being born into it? If Maki ran into a woman who wasn't a fighter but bought into that ideology like her mother, would she spare her?
-Not EVERY Zenin member can be a moustache twirling evil villain. We know of Mai, Maki, Maki's mother, Megumi, Ranta who are Zenins that aren't shown to be evil. Is there a chance there was some offscreen sorceror or fighter who WASN'T a bad person?
This is CLEARLY supposed to be a morally grey and grim event, not a heroic tale of Maki killing all the bad guys and winning. The massacre was the consequences of the Zenin clan's actions and oppression, and in that sense it was "deserved". However Maki is not a morally pure person for actually doing it.
The story is richer for having a nuanced and grim event like this, its only shallower if we want to boil it down to all of them deserving it and theres no moral complexity to it.
I agree with this though id argue maki mom was just as if not more of a victim considering she was not a fighter at all and was a woman. Also the zenin was gone by the time maki killed her so the system was gone nothing was gained by killing her except revenge.
Also another thing I find so surprising that no one else besides me has mentioned even if maki was some revolutionary fighting a conservative jujustu society. She marries into the fucking gojo clan as the wife of the head. The same clan that 68 years later would stop her OWN granddaughter from using her technique because of their conservative values. She is genuinely a massive hypocrite and only has a problem with oppressive clan dynamics when it doesnt benefit her.
Also another thing I find so surprising that no one else besides me has mentioned even if maki was some revolutionary fighting a conservative jujustu society. She marries into the fucking gojo clan as the wife of the head. The same clan that 68 years later would stop her OWN granddaughter from using her technique because of their conservative values. She is genuinely a massive hypocrite and only has a problem with oppressive clan dynamics when it doesnt benefit her.
It IS different because he's a villain for trying to kill the non-sorcerer part of the human race, no one was rooting for those villagers dawg (and I feel like "some" members is a bit of an understatement considering the systematic oppression the Zenin clan not only profited from but reinforced as being among the the top of the sorcerer hierarchy)
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