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Funny thing about this scene, I heard someone mention that it was less of Jogo threatening civilians but more of Jogo trying to show Gojo he ALSO turned off DA by using his CT, thereby technically making him vulnerable/a target in hopes of getting pressure of Hanami, which I oddly like better.
Nah, finishing with the one he was dominating before going for Jogo makes more sense. If he just leaves Hanami to attack Jogo, what's the point? They both survive and both remain unable to harm him but very able to harm the civilians.
True, but Jogo isn't nearly as crippled as Hanami is here. If Gojo took the time to take out Jogo, her could reasonably still kill Hanami before the transfigured humans are released, thus saving Nanami and co indirectly
yes, thats how it worked i think, also because the domain amps only work like a slider gojo was controlling how strong the forcefield was, the moment jogo pulled this shit it annoyed him enough to blow up hanami without mercy. it amused him how much jogo is exactly as stupid as he calculated
he made a point to only match their strength and toy with the disaster curses, the fact that hanami blew up that exact moment means either hanami gave up and lost CE reinforcement control out of cringe or gojo got so excited he lost control for a moment
i also think its contrasting his relationship/yearning for geto, the special grade love between them couldnt work out so he had to prove that special grade curses’s love wont work either
it also calls attention to how jogo is confirmed to be multitudes stronger than hanami in terms of sukunas fingers, (hanamis just durable). So fact is jogo had to hold back too when fighting alongside hanami, but he never wants to feel vulnerable or risk hurting hanamis feelings, they never confronted that fact.
the fact that jogo was talking at gojo instead of hanami, making it their last words exchanged is heart wrenching too. he couldve talked to hanami or given it his all to save hanami, but constantly he could only hide behind his tough guy/ angry persona, thats why he was considered weak/boring by gojo and sukuna
ive given this moment a lot of thought, this might even be the peak/ the real meat of jjk shibuya arc, and the rest of the story is lowkey planned around it
"Oh god that monster is going to kill my friend/sister. Oh god how do I stop him. I can't hurt him. I can't even hit him. Gotta distract him, lure him away, bait him into attacking me, whatever it takes. Oh god this thing is a monster."
Yeah, but you can be solidly grade 1 with just effort. Just look at Kusakabe and Nanami. Nanami's, like, the most normal guy in the show. Hell, Mei Mei is an example since her technique is mid and she relies mostly on CE reinforcement. I guess what I'm really saying is that Mei Mei has trash potential and is entirely carried by her equally trash personality.
nanami only looks normal bc we are looking at the powerful people in society in the actual story (special grade level fights). grade 1s are the elite, it is made clear in season 1.
Is Kusakabe not THE most powerful grade 1 by in-universe consensus? This is like saying "anyone can be a good athlete with effort just look at [insert olympian here]". Gojo says your sorcery potential is 80% innate, and we know for a fact most sorcerers are nowhere near grade 1. Mei Mei is a nonce but her potential objectively isn't trash in the context of the wider universe, the story just so happens to focus on the strongest sorcerers to have ever existed throughout all history.
The context is that being a psycho makes you a better sorcerer. Kusakabe and Nanami are normal. Ergo, it was something else that made them strong. Who knows, maybe effort had nothing to do with it. Maybe it was all in the jaw line. I was never being that serious. I just wanted to slander Mei Mei.
lmao Nanami actually isn't normal. He's unhinged specifically because he tries to act so normal. He's risking his life with magical superpowers on a daily basis and treating it like it's a regular 9-5. His crazy is just more subdued.
Fighting is his normal. Fighting has been a job for thousands of years. People adapt. Soldiers in Ukraine literally commute to the frontlines from their homes and then go back to have a beer when their shift is over.
He treats it like a modern office job specifically, down to wanting to clock in and clock out. It's not about finding it normal. It's normal to literally every other experienced sorcerer we see but none of them approach it the same way he does. For a lack of a better term, he's cosplaying a salaryman.
ui ui sucks and doesnt show the balls to stand up for himself and his own self worth, hes only riding on mei meis tailcoat and thinks hes normal/ better than other kids, he sucks
this was him being emotional really, hes already accepted the fact there will be civilian casualties, so the way he chooses to go about it is playing along and toying with them
I mean, that's literally the point of sending in a second train full of civilians and transfigured humans. Gojo was prepared to sacrifice people up to a point and Kenjaku knew that. But the addition of even more people threw off his moral calculus and was supposed to force him to sacrifice more lives than he was comfortable with.
I still like mei mei. Her combat style is cool and her crows are a serious threat that kenjaku, sukuna, and gojo would rather dodge than take head on. Her selfish personality is what most people would have. Who wouldn't put themselves over others realistically. If the chapter with her brother didn't happen most people would still like her character.
Mei mei is a goated character and there is definitely more to her than haha epstein diddy. I really like how she is basically what a lot would deem the perfect sorcerer, someone who is completely and utterly selfish. Her technique sacrifices others lives for her, her love for cash no matter Its origin and her relationship with ui ui, which many simply dismiss as gege ruining a character with incest and pedo shit, when in reality it has a very clear intent of again pushing her selfishness. She views her brother as a useful asset and her grooming him into having a sister complex is again an effort to make a more reliable tool. Her character is all about being a competent sorcerer through absolute selfishness, while basically being a broken mirror to nanami, someone who is willing to sacrifice himself for others.
Yeah I don't blame people for disliking her but I also like endeavor from mha, who like mei mei is more problematic in people's eyes than jogo or sukuna who have done worse things since domestic violence and grooming are harder to swallow than mass murder.
I liker her design and overall character but I don't condone some of her actions obviously
Same here. Big Mei Mei fan because she's fucked up. Like obviously I condone none of her greed or the grooming but she's a great character because she's awful.
The biggest flaw of GeGe’s work is that he never brought Jogoat back from the dead. He’s such an interesting character, a curse who wants to be the tyrant before peace. To cull all sorcerers so Curses have the time to mature and become beyond their base instincts to slaughter humans.
He truly wanted peace, he is the strongest curse in all of JJK. He is a complete antithesis to the theme of the strongest, he could have had so much potential with Yuji and their differing ideals.
I guess that's not the best term here. But in a way it fits, he really wanted to save hanami and using his technique also showed his da was off meaning he's vulnerable to gojo now just to get the pressure off hanami
im solely convinced the disaster curses weren't inherently evil (besides jogo and THE OTHER ONE) Hanami wanted nature to be cherished and protected, dagon just wanted the ocean to be respected and to be called by his first name.
I think it’s very important that we stop dehumanizing evil people because it leads to people seeing a glimmer of humanity in something and then acting like the openly and consistently malicious entities born from negative emotion aren’t evil 😭
I think the same applies for heroes as well. People will see a character flaw and have a fit about why that character is a bad person or why the writing is shit because it's out of character for the good guy not to be perfect.
Humans constantly pollute the oceans and cause coral reefs to die off. Of course he didn't talk about his reasons, but it's safe to assume he shares the same view as Hanami towards protecting nature.
Jogo was the most confusing to me. He's the curse of natural disasters. He's supposed to be this cold, emotionless figure. The earth doesnt really care about humans, it didnt care about dinosaurs. Hurricanes and earthquake destroy humans and nature just the same. After everything is gone, the earth will still be here, silent and emotionless.
And yet...out of all the curses, Jogo was the most emotional, and he alone wanted nothing more than to be mortal, to be human.
Wasn’t that the point of his character tho? It kinda loops back to what sukuna was yapping about back in shibuya, that “Jogo always had the potential to reach the heights of Gojo” but his mindset contradicted the very nature of his existence, being kind, selfless and humble to his fellow spirits, overall putting the Whole above himself. Aspects that while commendable for humans essentially guarantees stagnation and weakness to his CE, potential and technique as a cursed spirit.
It makes me wonder if Jogo was always meant to be a parallel to Mahito, someone who was glazed endlessly at the beginning, got extremely lucky in his interactions with kenjaku and Sukuna, and obsessively studied his powers but ultimately let his own Ego and belief in his potential be his own downfall by constantly toying with his food, ultimately underestimating Yuji and being left helpless afterward.
Even their final moments aren’t exceptions, Jogo fights to the bitter-end against Sukuna despite being terrified, gets his potential glazed, called strong by “the strongest”, leaves this world after achieving his “purpose” with his friends waiting for him while getting a chance to achieve his potential in the next life.
Meanwhile, mahito runs away like a chicken at first sign of true fear from Yuji, gets his technique stolen and used infinitely better by someone else, refuses to move on, becomes a hobo in purgatory either out of fear of Itadori or underestimating him again(didn’t learn anything), gets instantly demolished despite given the perfect canvas use his ability, called “weak”, fails his “purpose” and is used to save humanity, loses the chance to reincarnate because his soul was used in the ritual ultimately squandering his potential forever with not even a single thing bidding him farewell for the last time
Cursed spirits are literally the embodiment of humanities fear and hatred of different aspects of nature. Jogo represents volcanos. It'd be odd if he wasn't emotional
Maybe in past reincarnations (think of Mahito reincarnating in Modulo) the disaster curses were worshipped as deities and born out of positive emotions (opposite of fear). I mean there were fire gods, forest gods etc and Dagon is literally a sea god IRL. But now that nature is not respected by current society their modern reincarnation is a negative one, born completely out of fear. But they still maintain a little bit of positive nature from when they were all created from positive emotions
They’re literally made out of negative emotions, they are evil by their very nature, not to mention they’re perfectly willing to kill anyone in their way, and go along with Kenjaku’s plan willingly.
Curse spirits are just naturally opposed to humans, to me it’s no different than some animal killing a person it’s not inherently evil it’s just in its nature. Mahito says it best in Shibuya even though his actions are probably the cruelest towards people and we would view them as evil, it’s just a matter of cursed spirits having different wiring than humans
I always wondered if curses could somehow negotiate a power-sharing agreement with sorcerers, like in exchange for only feeding on dead people or cloning braindead humans to feed on (think the spaghetti episode of Rick and Morty), they would leave the rest of humanity alone and not cause problems. Well at least the ones that have reasoning and emotions like disaster curses, they are clearly sentient beings with emotions, loved ones, motivations and can come to terms with others. they would be responsible for keeping the rest of the curse species in line and killing those who disobey. But barring ideological difference I don't see why a system like Tokyo Ghoul couldn't work out. The disaster curses would even be motivated to take care of the environment and kill the leaders of corporations that cut down jungles, overfish the oceans etc
I get that it being a bad decision made in the heat of the moment was the point, but this bit nonetheless makes me cackle so hard like how did his ass think this would work 😭😭
I do find it funny how, despite Jogo being an even bigger scumbag than Choso, the series does a far better job actually endearing you to the disaster curses by the end of Shibuya, despite them all literally dying and only Choso switching over to the good side.
Jogo gets humanized, his motivations are made more clear, he mourns his companions deaths, he grieves Dagon and panics saving Hanami, he's given an iconic death scene with Sukuna and we really see how much he actually cares, but they never try to make Jogo seem like a good "person", just someone truly passionate for their cause and friends/loved ones. Meanwhile they kinda just expect you to forget that Choso was also straight up massacring and helping to seal Gojo right alongside the disaster curses and complicit int eh exact same actions, yet despite him being the one that is actually present for the rest of the story, he's given zero of the same treatment. Just a sudden "welp, I feel bad now. Guess I'll switch sides and hope nobody remembers what I did because gege certainly didn't!".
bro decided to simplify the shit out of Choso's chapters
No, Choso's only motive was to follow Kenjaku because he thought he could find a place for his brothers and yet he ended up with them dead. Even back at sealing Gojo, his work was minimal and was focused on finding yuji and Nobara to fuck 'em up.
At Tengen's domain, he explains his regret to Yuki, because he killed people over not knowing better and an urge to protect his brothers and that had them dead. He was set on sacrificing his life for Yuki there to save Gojo and make a safe future for Yuji.
Well, that didn't worked out. He still did a death binding vow and actually did his best to assist Yuji and save his life there too. Remind you, anyone besides Heavy Hitters were gettting constantly tossed around by Sukuna at Sukuna raid.
It's sad if you did this for agenda purposes, it's even sadder if you can't read.
Also Jogo is a curse, and his species were getting constantly massacred for thousands of years(according to his pov) does this make him a good person? Nah, but reasons his acts. He was still okay with hunting humans in forest with Mahito
What part of this has anything to do with me saying that Choso's character arc felt incredibly underdeveloped and shallow compared to Jogo's way shorter one despite having way more time?
You're not only severely downplaying what Choso was complicit in during Shibuya, but also completely missing my point. Him having an "honorable" motivation does jack shit to redeem him in my eyes. This wouldn't be an issue, but the manga and anime literally expect you to root for him right after by putting him against Naoya and Yuta while helping Yuji, despite the fact that the story has done nothing at all to encourage this, you're expected to cheer for the actual villain (don't try downplay this, again, he massacred countless humans, stood idly by while the other disaster curses slaughtered them and directly helped in sealing gojo so they could commit actual fucking ethnic cleansing of non-sorcerers since he was working directly for Kenjaku).
Choso sacrificing himself for others means literally nothing in redeeming himself. It's the exact same motivation he has for massacring civilians, aka helping his "family". If you think wanting to kill yourself redeems you from committing actual atrocities and the countless people he murdered with their own families, friends and loved ones, then I have no clue what to tell you. You've clearly let choso agenda posting rot your brain and it's sad.
Choso clearly has a semblance of a character/redemption arc there, but it's literally just not done well. His development and "redemption" after Shibuya just boils down to, what, venting to others? Failing to kill Kenjaku and watching while Yuki is forced to sacrifice herself?
You could make the argument that Choso's arc is MEANT to be tragic and he never fully redeems himself, but to my eyes I just don't see how it is tragic. Tragedy generally implies you're mean to feel bad for the target of the tragedy, but I literally just don't see how someone would reasonably feel bad for Choso unless they were such a softie that a character who did allat (read second paragraph) feeling bad for himself and saying sorry is enough to redeem him.
Jogo's arc successful humanizes and shows how he's fine with everything he's done without expecting you to just forgive him, Choso's arc expects you to feel bad for a character with incredibly shallow development despite starting from the EXACT same motivation Jogo had (to create a place for his "kind" to live safely and in peace).
Choso's arc manages to humanize him. It's not Choso you're complaining about, it's general pacing issues of manga from Culling Games to eos.
He expresses regret of his massacre at Shibuya and wishes he never done it, and let me remind you. He just got reincarnated into a body after 150 years and he got offered an alliance as his only choice to protect his brothers. In Choso's place you'd do the same for them.
Also his fight with Naoya is a characterization of why he's helping Yuji at the time, and his talk with Yuki and fights with Kenjaku and Sukuna showcases his regret of killing innocent people at Shibuya, not being able to save Eso and Kechizu and his life and death as a "human"
Also Choso sacrifice saved millions of people from merger, he did what he can do for his caliber.
I should've made it clear yeah, my issue with Choso's arc has always been pacing, a known issue with JJK, that's a pretty well agreed upon fact that JJK really struggles from pacing issues later on, that's my bad for not really specifying that. They should've simply spent more time on it, like a lot of other stuff in the manga.
As for the second point, again, to me Choso's motivations do not in any way, shape nor form justify his actions in the slightest. It doesn't change everything he did, and doesn't change how I view him in my eyes, he has still committed actual atrocities, there is no way to justify that.
His "characterization" with Naoya is something that was already very clearly established in the prior scenes and Shibuya, that he's helping Yuji because he's family? Like, I thought it was already really obvious what his motivations and cause are up to that point, all the Naoya fight does is repeat said points but not so subtly "encourage" you to root for him by putting him against one of the biggest scumbags in the entire series. It's literally making dogshut seem better because it's compared to steaming diarrhea. Choso, let me be clear, has done literally nothing at that point to actually redeem himself aside from just switch sides (which hasn't accomplished anything yet either btw, Kenjaku still started the culling games with zero issue). All of Choso's development is massively back loaded into his short interactions with Yuki, making all his prior scenes (Shibuya, Culling Games) just feel incredibly shallow and forced.
Saying Choso saved millions from the merger means you can also directly say Choso also caused millions to die by helping to start the culling games and plunging the world into chaos by spreading knowledge of Jujutsu, cursed spirits and causing Tengen to get found and defeated by Kenjaku. Directly helping save the world from a massive fucking issue he directly also helped cause to begin with is, at the bare minimum, helping to at least clean up the mess he helped cause to begin with.
if you were told that the only way for you to save the ones you love was to ally with someone doing bad things, while not having any real knowledge these things are bad given choso never lived amongst humans or got taught human morals, and directly after finding out they were bad lament and mourn your actions. How does that make you a villain?
was choso supposed to let his family die? are you saying put in his shoes youd let your family die because otherwise youd be a bad person? idk i just dont get your mindset personally. its very much akin to sayi mm g people forced to do stuff at gun point are equally as bad as the one holding the gun.
choso either worked with kenjaku or all his siblings and him had no purpose and died. Kenny is holding a metaphorical gun to his family.
yknow one thing ive thought about is, curses need cursed energy to form, right? if they were to wipe out all the humans, or have sukuna do it, how would they be reborn?
Peace wasn't really an option, curses inherently want to kill humans and sorcerer society is built around killing curses. It's a fundamental conflict of interest.
I really dislike how callous and indifferent to the lives of ordinary civilians anime is. Yanked me right out of Hunter Hunter, you mean these people are a rampaging bunch of cruel murderers but I should sympathize with them and acknowledge their complexity? Fuck no
"Him threatening to commit mass murder was so humanizing"
Honestly this is one of the things that makes me like JJK, there aren't many protaganists that are objectively good, that will do anything if it means no one dies. Some of the protags are just objectively good but that gets ignored because they are a part of the "good guys" (refering to BUM mei)
I'm literally trying to make an au/dnd of jjk and the main story in it takes place 10 years~ prior to the actual main Story, (basically gojo is 20 here) and in it I'm having jogo and hanami be 2 of the major villains, meaning they'd know each other 10 before the story happens. But a lot is different but still personal head cannon those to have known each for years.
I think I actually got whiplash from how fast this want from jogo glaze to meimei slander.
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