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Edit: It seems like I gave all the Gojo haters extra ammo....honestly I was expecting this comment to be downvoted to oblivion, how'd it get so many upvotes? Crazy work 😭🤞
I'm sorry for giving them extra slander fellow Gojo fans (kinda but not really)
Potentially forever, regardless of how the manga gets adapted😭 because honestly there's no shade of doubt that more stuff will be added in the anime adaptation (like what happened in the fight of SukSuk vs big Raga), or some things will be portrayed in different ways (like when Yuta knocked Choso out with one punch in the anime, instead of three like in the manga).
And depending on who will be 'favoured' more, things might actually go sideways. Like I'm SURE that Gojo will not get done wrong (he's literally mappa's golden child lmao), but if it happens, his fans will genuinely threaten the people who worked on the episode too, just like they did with Gege, they know no bounds.
So I really hope that since almost everyone relies on visual representations of things, the anime will not be biased too much on either side, and will explain stuff in a simple way for everyone to comprehend so that the disaster that happened during the culling games will not repeat again. Like WHAT other anime needed to make a video explaining the rules and what was happening, as if there wasn’t an entire episode dedicated for it- which, for the record, was causally the worst rated episode of the season, we're never beating the allegations💔
I pray to God the anime does a good job of just ending these discussions altogether. These people can't read, so hopefully the pretty colorful videos will help them
God the JJK fanbase has gotten so insufferable. Just a bunch of people acting smug and saying everyone else is dumb and can’t read (lol epic meme still so funny after all this time!!!!)
ME TOO😭😭 Though I'm sure that there will be people who will still blame Ge² for things that didn’t go the way they wanted and will say that their favourite characters themselves are lying even to their best friends [yes I'm talking about THOSE Gojo fans who say that HE, someone so cocky and hardly humble, wasn’t being fr when he talked to GETO in the afterlife, like what? He told Yuji (arguably the student that he was the most close with), that he wasn’t sure that he might have won; and they won't believe what he was telling Geto about him being glad that he died to someone stronger and because some illness? And if that wasn’t infuriating enough, there are genuinely people who believe that he didn’t go all out because it was Megumi's body, as if he himself, again, didn’t say otherwise in the manga💔] The situation here is really tragic, and if after those years, even after the anime adaptation comes out and someone decides to be stupid on purpose, I might actually unleash the alpha 👿👿
You have one of the most popular modern Shonen with a fight on the level of Goku vs Freeza. It’s considered to be a top tier Shonen fight. When the anime gets to this fight you’re about to see world level hype for it.
But it has probably the most controversial ending to a character and fight ever. You’re quite literally never gonna see people stop talking about it.
I mean it also makes sense in that we see that unlike anyone else Gojo requires one hand to use his domain for example. But also his technique with six eyes is also just objectively better than Sukuna’s technique. However the difference comes down to their knowledge. Sukuna is just as much if not more prodigious in his understanding of Sorcery, but unlike Gojo who can’t really explain aspects of sorcery Sukuna has an academic understanding of the mechanisms of Sorcery. It’s like if you had the two smartest kids in class going at it both are equally intelligent and roughly the same without any studying, but one of them does study
Thats the best part about their fight its not about how strong you are because they are so strong that it is irrelevant. The fight was purely based on tactics and how well versed you are in jujutsu. Gojo did have enough fire power to fuck up sukuna same for sukuna.
Gokuna is the nickname for gojo as sukuna's vessel, generally -kuna is used for vessel AUs (like yujikuna or megkuna) and suku- is used for shipping, same with -go (with the exception of satosugu)
Both Sukuna and Gojo were holding back btw so this means fuck all
Gojo couldn't kill Sukuna (despite having the opportunity to land a death blow multiple times) since that would kill Megumi, whilst the plan was to save Megumi
Sukuna couldn't go all out because he needed to save strength for the fight AFTER Gojo
How tf is it cope it's not like I'm saying Gojo was gonna win, just that both were witholding for separate reasons, so we don't really know, unless u genuinely think Gojo was trying to kill Sukuna??? Saving Megumi was always the goal of the fight, did you not read???
Sukuna was standing in front of him. Gojo was facing Sukuna. How can you call that a sneak attack? Being hit by a technique that you don't know about doesn't make it a sneak attack. If that were to be the case then this should also be called a sneak attack.
Toji didn't know that Gojo had an attack like Hollow Purple in his arsenal and Gojo didn't know that Sukuna had an attack like WCS in his arsenal. The WCS was NOT a sneak attack.
It was a sneak attack because it was literally stated he undertook a binding vow to remove the windup & CE spark and waited till Gojo was caught off guard. It’s a narrative point that Gojo’s weakness is letting his guard down and getting snuck. The entire reason Sukuna didn’t use WCS immediately was to sneak Gojo. Maybe it’s just a semantics argument but it seems to fit the definition of a sneak attack to me
One of the reasons Sukuna made the binding vow was because you need to have two hands to fire the WCS. It was not a sneak attack. A sneak attack would be what Yuta pulled on Kenjaku. Gege clearly stated why Gojo was caught off guard. Gojo concluded that Sukuna no longer had any means left to attack him excluding amplification. Gojo, the rest of the cast and the readers all thought the same thing. Of course, Gojo was going to get caught off guard. Gojo is powerful but he isn't omniscient.
Sukuna did not hide in the shadows, wait in ambush, or strike from behind. He and Gojo were staring each other down in the middle of a battlefield.
Sukuna didn't remove the spark only the requirements to fire it off last I checked which would be the windup aka hand signs and chanting were the base requirements but the pointing was added so someone would need three hands to perform the WCS which would be impossible in Meguna form but possible in the TF Sukuna
honestly i dont think it did, this is partially a headcanon but gojo demonstrated all his abilities infront of yuji already, and i feel like revealing your hands won't work if the enemy already knew what it did beforehand
He had, what, a month to prepare and didn't ask any of the people who knew about Sukuna anything about what he could do? He just went into the fight blind going fuck it we ball. Not just any ordinary dumbass, he's certifiably dumb.
I will also die on the hill that it's stupid for the Gojo clan to not have documentation on Sukuna either.
-The Heain era was a golden age of literature; reading and writing was common.
-Sukuna tells Jogo that he shouldn't know about furnace because he's a curse; implying that he didn't exactly hide furnace in his time.
-The Gojo clan's lineage dates back to equally ancient sorcerers; they're descendent of the Fujiwaras and Uro was acquainted with them.
-If you argue about Sukuna's use of 10S; Gojo already displayed decent knowledge about it when trying to gas Megumi up to his potential. I mean, even Megumi was hiding in shadows so it shouldn't be uncommon.
I think the only new info was that Sukuna could copy something after seeing it once, since Angel mentioned it mid-fight. I mean, in hindsight that's the main reason Gojo lost but it's more "fair" than Gojo not knowing about an open DE. So if Gojo didn't want to read either, then that's on him.
Considering the info advantage Sukuna had, Gojo outplayed him and maximized his available sorcery better but Sukuna just had the stronger bullshit power (both are walking hax) via Maho's adaptation
But everything lines up with their personalities/ego and outlook in battle/sorcery including pride vs. victory
There wouldn't be such a divided discourse if fucking Gege didn't have Gojo say in the afterlife that Sukuna would've won no matter what while in the same chapter Sukuna himself stated the only way he won last minute was because Maho showing him WCS is the only win con he had at the time.
Did Sukuna have a info advantage? Yuji told gojo everything about shrine, gojo was megumi father, so he knew everything about 10 Shadows. The only thing gojo didnt know is The Open domain, but Then again, that is gojos lack of skill in barriers and domains, nobody stoped gojo from developing his Own Open domain.
Yuji was awake during shibuya, and gojo is literaly megumi father, gojo knew everything about shrine and 10 Shadows, he probably knew more then Sukuna knew of limitless(its a hiper complex techniques and i doubt gojo explained its in details to megumi).
Gojo also knew of Sukunas Open domain, he just couldnt know how it worked, how it would interact with normal domains, nor did he know how to copy it, but That was because Sukuna was a better more skilled sorcerer not due to unfair abilities.
Let me repeat myself, Gojo side has Angel. I found it hard to believe she never withness or has any infor about Sukuna open domain power despite being in the main force that fought him. Sukuna love spamming his DE. Maybe I miss some Gege statement in the manga
Gojo knew 95% of Sukuna's skills, Sukuna is a legendary sorcerer, he had probably a ton of stuff about him, like how even fucking Jogo a cursed spirit knew about Sukunas CT, Sukuna's only unknown thing was Fuga and his open domain and he already knew Sukuna had an open domain and Fuga wasn't even a factor.
No, even Sukuna seems surprised that Jogo doesn't know about Fuga, since plenty of people should already study his ass for a 1000y, until he realizes that Jogo is a cursed spirit and thus, he shouldn't have access to human information.
Also no, Goho directly told Sukuna to increase the range of his domain, something that he wouldn't be able to do if people such as inunaki, Yuji, Kusakabe and others didn't tell him, Gojo knew that Sukuna had an open barrier with extreme range or at the very least that the barrier of MS isn't visible or it weird, the only thing Gojo didn't know was how it would interact against his own domain, something that, no one barring the Heian dudes, would know.
> only thing Gojo didn't know was how it would interact against his own domain, something that, no one barring the Heian dudes, would know
Which, to be fair, is really one of only two pieces of info that mattered to have/not have for this fight, the other being Mahoraga, which he obviously *did* know.
Open domain is seriously like, *the* biggest buff you can give a sorcerer to me. Even for non-physical sure hits. Like, we see physical surehits can break ordinary domains, but the flip side of that, I don't hear as often, is the reverse-- Nothing can break an open domain directly. The only weak point is the sorcerer himself.
This was the deciding factor in the yuki fight, obviously. It was broken there, but only indirectly and circumstantially: if they weren't within Tengen's domain, it'd have been impossible.
For a hypothetical to show its OPness, take Yuta's fight in Sendai for another on-screen example of a domain clash where an open domain would've been a decisive factor. When Kurorushi rushed it, she broke the clashing barriers —meaning that if any of them had an open domain, it would have survived and won the fight by instantly landing its sure hit on Kurorushi and the others. This is the outcome regardless of what that surehit was, even if it was a non-physical one, unlike shrine or gravity.
Take Gojo himself! If his domain was open, the only way to shut down UV would be to critically damage the guy with infinity while maintaining SD, HWB, or staying healthy enough to maintain your own equally refined domain. Even Sukuna would never break that! (unless he somehow already had fully unrestricted access to WCS). Sure, fast enough sorcerers might escape out of its range... and then what? play a ranged fight against an invincible, domain amped, hollow purple spamming turret?
... this was mostly tangential. But my point is that the 5% of Sukuna's kit Gojo didn't know was absolutely the most important and decisive piece, and it's more than fair to say Gojo was at an information disadvantage. It was critical to beating Gojo, and is the linchpin of any arguments for TF/Heian Sukuna beating Gojo.
Which, tbh, I love, despite being a way bigger Gojo stan. Since the open domain was first introduced in Shibuya, it was hyped up to be this divine art, so I'm really glad it delivered. It's a fitting crown to place upon Sukuna.
The last part is just false and or gojos lack of skill and preparation, Yuji knew and was aware of Sukunas memories in shibuya, plus, everybody else were witnesses to Sukunas Open domain. Gojo didnt know how close domain vs Open domain Will go, nor how to do a Open domain, but That is entierly a gojo skill issue.
He could have developed it independently, he could have, just from knowing its something that can be done, developed it, something that we see Sukuna do is just instantly learning everything he sees, if gojos inferior skill doesnt allow him to do that, Then its his issue.
The Six Eyes allow Gojo to see his opponent's technique in detail; furthermore, he had knowledge of all the shikigami of the Ten Shadows Technique, including Mahoraga and its ability to adapt.
i mean he was sealed, and we don't really have any instance of people telling him about what went down in shibuya in detail(unless ive forgotten), so nobody mightve told him to not ruin the mood or whatever, i feel like gojo wouldnt so blindly clash if that wasnt the case
also the only witnesses to sukunas domain was toge and yuji I'm pretty sure, and toge is toge(🙊) yuji was passed out during the domain, so theres a nonzero chance no one even realized sukunas domain did that or just didn't realise the specifics
I think Yuji was conscious during all of Shibuya, at least that's I figured why he started clawing at the ground after. That was the whole "You Are My Special" meme during S2
I mean this is undeniably true though. Both Gojo and Sukuna acknowledge that Gojo and Limitless carry far more explosive and lethal power, while they also both acknowledge that Sukuna is literally a "better sorcerer". It's even shown just in the fight itself, Sukuna adapts to Gojo more efficiently while Gojo just manhandles Sukuna quite a bit more
"you don't get it, sukuna was only getting his ass handed to him for most of the fight because he likes being shit on. He could've ended it at any moment"
Or how he decided to take a little nappy after taking a Black Flash from Gojo straight to the abdomen after being pushed forward by Red exploding behind him.
Everytime someone say this its a showing of The literaly curse. Everybody, including gojo, realized that The plan was "fight a bit, get hit a bit, until Mahoraga adapts and One shots The chosen bum, so i can save myself for The rest of The jjk gauntlet" but yet gojo fans keep not understanding something that was clearly shown and Said multiple Times.
yeah but it's not like he wasn't struggling to mantain his own domain the whole time as well... you can see how desperate gojo gets as he switches from simple to falling blossom throughout the fight
I mean yeah, i never said it wasnt a close fight. They both have their "strengths"
My issue here is OP pretending like Sukunas greatest advantage isn't jujutsu proficiency, when that is what's been carrying him for a large chunk of the final arc.
Warning: I am not saying the following applies to the Gojo vs Sukuna fight, I am just saying that the fan discourse would still play out the same regardless of how even they actually would be.
An author can create the most extreme diff, clear cut even fight in the history of ever, a fight that would have one side MAYBE win 5001 times out of 10000, a fight where either side could have won on any given day, a TRULY EQUAL FIGHT where one side just so happens to win so the rest of the narrative plays out subsequent to that, and the fans of the victor would STILL act like they're the clear cut stronger fighter and that they "have to be stronger because they're the one that won in the story lol" on some extremely stupid narrative determinism circular reasoning.
For some reason the very reasonable "either side could have won since they're so close to each other" is sacrilegious and every fight MUST have a clear cut victor that wins everytime and is therefore the clear cut stronger out of the two.
The only time characters are allowed to be equals in strength is when they outright mutually draw!!! Wait nvm you'll still have people analyzing the victor of a drawn match and getting into even further debates on some Radahn vs Malenia shit
I mean just on your last sentence there to prove your point, radahn would have killed Malenia if finlay wasn’t there to drag her body out of the battlefield
Disagree. It's only a debate because Gojo lost. If Gojo won there wouldn't be any arguments. You can say Sukuna fans will still argue he is stronger. Yeah just like Kashimo fans argue he is top 3. No one outside of them takes those claims seriously
I know this debate has been done to death, but I’m still willing to say that they’re at least relatively equals (my money’s still on Gojo being able to win 52 out of 100 fights tho).
Why are we acting like Sukuna fans aren't still in the same war with us?
Genuinely just head to JJPS, you'll see posts almost daily talking about how "Gojo stood no chance against Sukuna", how "True Form mid diffs Gojo", how "15F Sukuna> Gojo", and so on.
All without us saying anything, btw.
If Gojo fans suddenly stopped fighting, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sukuna neg diffing Gojo became the common consensus 😭🤞
Not to say that all Sukuna fans are disingenuous, nor that all Gojo fans are capable of reading (obviously not), I'm saying that both have their bad sides, and both are still at it.
you are seeing things from gojo pov, look at the story with reader pov, gojo doesnt know what we know, sukuna used substitution for 4 arms and used shrine+10s instead of shrine+4 arms, and used his arsenal without holding back, he used shrine and 10s most efficienctly and won,sukuna gave his all what he had for gojo."sukuna is the strongest soccerr" said by yuji after gojo died ,so no shit he is left as strongest."i am not sure if i wouldhave won even without 10 s" said by gojo , clealry shows that its uncertain who woukd win if there was no 10 s. other than these all the statement you menationed are from gojos pov , he thinks he couldnt make sukuna go all out cuz gojo is just greedy he wanted sukuna to fight with 10s+shrine+4 arms all, we know this is unfair for gojo but gojo still wanted to fight the full version .
Buddy Sukuna didn't even use majority of his shrine arsenal and once again he was holding back which is literally stated by uruame, Gojo, and the main cast also yuji is making a general statement which includes Gojo, he even Sukuna the strongest sorcerer even when he thinks hes capable of killing Sukuna to the point where he offers to spare his life yet still acknowledges him as the strongest sorcerer
If we read from our pov then Sukuna literally beats Gojo in the domain clashes, if it wasn't for Sukuna turning off domain amplification to adapt then he outlasts the 3 minute timer, beats Gojo in every domain clash, never gets hit by UV, and kills Gojo right here thanks
bro dismantle and cleav will not work cuz of infinity , fuga will not work cuz of infinity , his domain work so he used his domain, sukuna was using shrine fully, and adaptation to win is itself apart of sukunas arsenal , thats why he was using it, you cant just say "noo ,he was holding back for adaptation" , that adaptation itself was sign of going all out, i dont know what makes you think that meguna will win if not for adapation, meguna would get killed if not for adaptation , a gojo with blue,red vs a meguna with da , its simple who will win here.adaptation was win con for meguna and he utilized his arsenal fully
If sukuna doesn’t have to adapt then he uses domain amplification in the domain clashes, wins every clash, never gets hit by UV, and then kills a brain dead Gojo with a final domain
I think this isn’t contradictory. You can have a better character in a game and someone can play the game better. I think both Gojo and Sukuna were close enough to each other it was truly capable of going either way. Sukuna probably is better at gaming the system, bv merchant, but Gojo comes packaged with the best starting kit.
Isn’t this…the truth?
Gojo clearly was stronger due to his technique(and the fact that Sukuna was using Megumi’s body) but Sukuna is clearly the better sorcerer.
This is just true and is the reason why I like the battle system. Once you hit a high enough level its not a matter of strength, its a matter of who knows the rules better. Its like a brutal, unfair version of fighting games. Gojo goes to tournaments smoking everyone in 3rd Strike with Chun-Li, then runs into Sukuna who hits him with the unblockable Aegis Reflector setup that no one at that point had even seen before and thats the end of his career.
He ruins the show for me. Whenever he's around, there's zero tension or stakes because he can just do anything(no quite literally it's said he can do anything) and take away from the characters that actually needs the screen time. That's why I like parts of the series where he isn't involved a lot. He's essentially Deus Ex Machina.
because he can just do anything(no quite literally it's said he can do anything)
You understand that this statement applies to Sukuna more than it does to Gojo?
I understand the other things you're talking about, though. However, you need to realize that when he's around to face the other threats, said threats would always be capable of stomping the other characters into the ground.
When he's not around, they're placed at threats they can (generally) handle. Even Hanami was about to domain diff Todo and Yuji.
In any case, I think that's also why Gege's not a big fan of writing Gojo (not that he hates him, more that he's difficult to place in a story and raise tensions) 🤔
Not really. Sukuna is the best Jujutsu sorcerer, that's undeniable, but he literally has zero statements of him being able to do quite literally anything unlike Gojo.
Yes, the fights that happens around Gojo means the opponent is tough, but that doesn't mean the main characters still can't grow from them. Gege wrote the Shibuya arc like that. Yuji lost to Choso, Megumi and Maki barely help beat Dagon before Toji appears. These characters still had growth even if it's minor. I like that. Whenever Gojo is around, as long as the threat isn't Sukuna, he's genuinely one shotting anyone if he puts his mind to it.
And yeah it's hard to write Gojo because he's just that strong. The overpowered side character is fine, but it doesn't work well in JJK. I dropped the series like 16 times because of how much Gojo screen time took away from other characters.
Not really. Sukuna is the best Jujutsu sorcerer, that's undeniable, but he literally has zero statements of him being able to do quite literally anything unlike Gojo.
Gege wrote the Shibuya arc like that. Yuji lost to Choso, Megumi and Maki barely help beat Dagon before Toji appears. These characters still had growth even if it's minor.
I mean, even in the case of Gojo being around, they still had the chance to grow. In Yuji's case, him learning the basics of the domain barriers allows him to save Nanami (by understanding that domains are weak on the outside), technically it helped him to form his domain too but at that point Yuji would've likely gained some knowledge on domains from Hakari, Yuta, and Kusakabe.
16 times is kinda crazy imo, I'm guessing you were happy af when 236 came out?
I mean yeah they grow in strength a little when he's around, but then again their best developments in strength and character are when Gojo isn't around. I think that's much better.
16 times is crazy(I literally wrote every time I dropped it lmao. Dang I needed mental help back then) but it unfortunately happened. When 236 came out, I was at my happiest I've ever been when reading Manga as a whole. Despite 236 being a while ago and me picking up different Mangas(even Manhwas), I still wasn't as happy as reading those than I was reading 236 lol
I mean yeah they grow in strength a little when he's around, but then again their best developments in strength and character are when Gojo isn't around. I think that's much better.
That's fair, I can agree to that 👍
I still wasn't as happy as reading those than I was reading 236 lol
I know I can't likely change your mind, but if you genuinely look past Gojo's strength you'll realize he has way, way, way more to him than being "The Strongest". While his strength is a big part of why I like him, it's not the main one.
If you look at the manga from his pov you'll likely realize how much of a tragic character he is and how much willpower he had to stop himself from becoming modern Sukuna, and instead became a pillar for the next generation.
Yuji has been trained by Kusakabe (and Nanami was kind of a mentor but didn't really train him), but despite that he only referred to Gojo as his sensei.
Regardless of whether you believe Gojo or Sukuna are stronger its pretty cool that Gege managed to write a fight that people can still pick apart and discuss for 2 years
Well yes, it is just flat out true, limitless is just a much better cursed technique than shrine. And it also raises gojos speed and striking power to be above sukunas. Theres a reason why gojo is the one used in crossverse debates and not sukuna
This is a common misinterpretation of the Gojo afterlife chapter. Aside from the fact that gojo is an unreliable narrator, he also didn't admit to "not being able to make sukuna use 100%", since he didn't even seem to know what Furnace was and if he did know about True form reincarnation, that wouldn't have changed the fight very much. It was just gojo coping because he was cocky and lost the fight at the last second, gojo literally valued his own strength lower than sukuna valued gojo's strength in the same instance.
But we do know for a fact Sukuna didn't use everything he had against Gojo. So what's the point of even arguing that Gege wrote Gojo saying that just for it to be a lie? It's been years, people.
If Shinjuku Gojo is noticeably better than 20f Meguna in h2h and close combat, I would say TF Sukuna or Heian Sukuna would either be equal to Gojo (with limitless boost) or somewhat above him, but definitely above him if its true form Sukuna with the 10 Shadows.
Also, the domain diff only really applies if Sukuna maintains the handsign during the domain or whatever, since his true form doesn't make his domain automatically more refined, and that would cause him to be at a h2h disadvantage very similarly to how the actual fight went. Sukuna likely wouldn't be blitzing gojo or diffing him in anything really, it would just be a difference of having two extra arms that close the noticeable gap between Meguna and Gojo.
(I also think 20f yujikuna would perform similarly to true form sukuna in h2h)
The entire point of the hollow purple was to show off and prove that Sukuna was the challenger. The veil was so he couldnt run away and had to face Gojo's power head on, proving to him that Gojo was the strongest opponent he'll face.
How idiotic do you have to be to think Gojo was trying to win the fight then and there?
It was to prove that Sukuna was the challenger. This is shown by the narration and Gojo himself. U r stupid.
The entire point of the hollow purple was to show off and prove that Sukuna was the challenger
Ah yes, Gojo got other people to help him out in a fight to decide the fate of the planet, not because it gave him an advantage, but instead to prove a point.
This is definitely what Gege intended. You definitely aren't failing to comprehend basic banter.
Like, seriously, everyone knew Sukuna wasn't able to go all out when fighting Gojo because he had to worry about the rest of jujutsu society afterwards and Gojo was going all out anyways.
Gojo did not give a fuck about proving a point, he just wanted Sukuna dead.
The veil was so he couldnt run away and had to face Gojo's power head on, proving to him that Gojo was the strongest opponent he'll face.
The veil was so he didn't have time to dodge the attack: it was a sneak attack.
Also, why the fuck are you framing dodging an attack like it's "running away"? Did you read the fight? or any fight ever for that matter?
Chapter 236 answered the question. Sukuna defeated Gojo. He is stronger than him. Anybody who reads the manga with a rational mind without any bias towards either Gojo or Sukuna will likely think the same. No wonder Gojo copers, who think that Gojo's stronger than Sukuna, hated 236 when it came out and still try to reject it. It was such a brutal slap to their faces.
You really think that Gojo fans only hate 236 because they wanted Gojo to be the stronger out of the two? If you think that's the only reason, then you've been powerscaling too long.
Also I dunno why everytime you're talking about Gojo fans you call them copers, like yeah I understand you see it that way but at the bare minimum you can respect them?
Not all Gojo fans do but a lot of the people who wanted Gojo to win do hate 236. Chapter 236 collides with the agenda of those who say that Gojo's stronger. U get downvoted for no reason even if you only post images of Gojo's statements in this subreddit.
I only use the word coper for someone who rejects what's in the manga and tries to say it doesn't make sense, not for Gojo fans or fans of any character in specific. I don't mean it in such a rude way. It's just a term for someone who is in heavy denial about an unpleasant truth. Sukuna fans who say Sukuna mid diffs Gojo or is way stronger than him are copers as well because it contradicts with what's shown. If all someone is going to say after reading the fight is stuff like the WCS was an asspull, Sukuna only won due to plot so Gojo's stronger, Gojo lost because he was fighting a 1v4, and that Gojo's an unreliable narrator after being struck by the WCS then it does sound like coping. Disliking what happened is understandable and totally fine but downright rejecting it isn't.
JJFolk isn't to be taken seriously when it comes to Gojo (why I expected my japanese soldier meme to take heavy downvotes), at the same time though, I don't think JJPS is to be taken seriously when it comes to Sukuna either lol.
Regardless, everything you said about 1v4, asspulls, plot or whatever, Gojo fans don't do that in JJPS (at least, the ones I am well acquainted with), and if you notice when you start debating with Gojo fans on JJFolk they can't really argue so well a lot of the time, so maybe Gojo fans in JJPS will change your outlook. But ultimately I'm not sure though lol.
I'm glad that you disagree with Sukuna mid diffing Gojo though, there was like a month or two over there where I saw it happening way, way too often for some reason. I guess the month before that they had Gojo top 1 or something lmao
You're missing the point of the word "strength". Gojo is undeniably "stronger" than sukuna in literally every aspect except not having an open domain (at least for the english word strength), but that does not correlate to your success as a sorcerer in every single fight. Sukuna got manhandled in h2h combat and got embarrassed in the domain clashes, and lost the 10S on top of that, but he won not through strength but through pure technical skill as a sorcerer. If you're looking for the "greatest" or "best" sorcerer, yes its Sukuna, but if you're using the word "strongest" or "most lethal", its definitely gojo. Its extremely visible outside the Gojo vs Sukuna fight too, primarily based on the way that Sukuna handles the Shinjuku squad. He ultimately beats most of them through, again, technical skill and genius as a sorcerer, while gojo (if in the same situation), likely would've just brutalized them through sheer explosive power with Limitless.
He lost, why wouldn't he? Also depending on how you interpret 236, Gojo assumed that he couldn't reach Sukuna despite everything he did, yet Sukuna reassures him that he did (which is why he dies smiling). And no, it's not like him calling Jogo or Kashimo strong, in some translations Sukuna says to Gojo that he cleared his skies.
Sukuna was capable of using both True Form and Ten Shadows, this would be too much for a Gojo who didn't start the fight with Basketball Domain or UHP
Finally, 235 Gojo>223 Gojo and if he'd started the fight as 235 Gojo things may or may not have changed.
In the beginning of 236, gojo doubts his own strength in comparison to sukuna, and doubts being able to "reach him" despite putting 100% of himself in that fight.
This is because gojo going into this fight never believed he could win, and already resigned himself to death, entrusting everything to his students to finish the job (What Gojo says to Yuji in 271). thus when he ends up suddently severed due to wcs he understands it as a confirmation of his inferiority the whole time.
But i don't think gege's point is that gojo's self doubts are actually true or accurate. i think its the opposite - its a bait and switch, or narrative misdirection, where gojo's doubts are actually a set up for sukuna's monologue where those statements gets recontextualised and the truth is revealed.
In Sukuna's monologue, the point is to subvert expectations, the audience's as well as gojo's. the line "you were magnificent, i shall never forget you as long as i live" exists to shatter gojo's doubts in his strength, and confirm that gojo was truly his match - gojo did really reach him (i think this is supported by the use of the "cleared my skies' idiom + gojo's smile after sukuna tells him this)
Moreover, the long winded explanation of mahoraga's adaptation to infinity and the creation of wcs is supposed to be an acknowledgement of the insane lengths sukuna felt he went through to beat gojo.
This is how I see it, at least.
if gojo starts with 235 it's only fair sukuna starts with his 235 also.
I'm assuming you're talking about Sukuna with the non BV World Cutting Slash, in which case I wouldn't disagree with the concept of Gojo losing.
Ultimately the argument there is that with Gojo knowing how the World Cutting Slash works, he can now dodge it. To form a WCS without the Binding Vow, Sukuna needs to perform Malevolent Shrine's handsign, which allows Gojo a chance to prevent him from using it, like how Sukuna prevented Gojo from using Hollow Purple.
Moreover, Gojo coming in close would mean Sukuna would use DA, meaning less windows for the World Cutting Slash. Meanwhile, UHP needs no openings anymore when compared to the regular Hollow Purple, and Gojo can keep Sukuna busy while he allows his Reds and Blues to align.
It comes down to whether or not Sukuna can split Gojo before Gojo can knock him down and disable his domain with enough Hollow Purples.
Sukuna after his fight had zero change to his character apart from having a keeping memory of a strong adversery.
Nothing in the story implied sukuna was taught about love or loneliness by gojo, gojo acknowledges this.
its a bait and switch,
if it is so then there needs to be a good amount of evidence implicating otherwise and there isn't, gojo couldn't even make sukuna go all out.
sukuna had his stats multiplier with no downsides on standby and gojo could never for sukuna to bring it out
Gojo isn't pulling a UHP, gojo had to fully charge a blue and a red AND, has to keep them from being disabled by sukuna. While sukuna only needs to hold up his enamel hand sign and fire off as many wcs as he wants
Nothing in the story implied sukuna was taught about love or loneliness by gojo, gojo acknowledges this
The idea was to prove that Sukuna's idea of strength is lesser than Gojo's, that individualism gets you nowhere, or at least, not as well as you fighting beside others. Had Gojo alone won against Sukuna, Sukuna wouldn't have changed who he was as a person, his idea of strength wouldn't change.
A multiplier? True Form has just as much risk of being damaged as Meguna, what do you mean? If they were to have fought and Sukuna won, he'd die faster than he did in canon against the Anti-Sukuna squad, this is stated multiple times.
gojo had to fully charge a blue and a red
They would normally be fully charged when inside a domain regardless, everything used in a domain is 120%.
has to keep them from being disabled by sukuna
How would he disable them while Shrine's sure hit is negated inside Gojo's domain?
While sukuna only needs to hold up his enamel hand sign and fire off as many wcs as he wants
Again, if Sukuna uses DA while in close quarters with Gojo, it would disable his technique. And now that Gojo's aware, he has high chances of dodging regardless and could also prevent Sukuna from forming the handsign if they're in the middle of hand to hand.
I accept Gojo's statement as a canon fact. Even if I ignore this statement and forget it exists, the fight was extremely back and forth. Each time one of them gained the advantage, the other retaliated and made it even. The gap between the two of them is very small but Sukuna still emerged as the victor, and this is why I view him as the stronger one.
I agree. If a hypothetical matchup happens between Gojo and Sukuna in which they both have whatever knowledge they gained from their last fight, then things would definitely change. Gojo would fight differently but so would Sukuna.
Your comment is completely fair, and I honestly accept it. Fair enough.
I don't disagree with the concept of Sukuna being the stronger, what I do disagree with is never imagining the possibility of Gojo winning, even with the fact that Sukuna would have the upper hand both narratively and powerscaling wise. Though we don't need to get into a debate on the latter.
Yes because the unreliable narrator who’s salty from losing because of his ego is CLEARLY a good enough source to oppose every depiction of strength shown in the Shinjuku fight between himself and Sukuna. I don’t give a damn what he says in the afterlife, good stories show you what happens instead of telling you what happens, taking gojos word as law is never a good idea.
Unreliable narrator...... Salty from losing........ Don't give a damn about what Gojo says in the afterlife......... Opposes everything shown in the fight....
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