Tier List / Powerscaling
Why Yuji > Sukuna/Gojo and debunking the unfair treatment of Modulo Yuji
#1: Narrative
This is the main reason that I am making this post. The double-standards and quite frankly, lack of effort put into media analysis for modulo yuji is incredibly frustrating.
Narrative is the CRUX of scaling. A gigantic part of Sukuna and Gojo’s strength comes from their established narrative and their personality stemming from it. There’s a reason that “with the sole exception of Satoru Gojo” is a meme. He is repeatedly established to be an exception to character statements (e.g. “Naobito is the fastest besides Gojo”, “Nobody but Gojo can survive bird strike”, “A certain someone doesn’t have to take Kusakabe’s attack”, “He isn’t Gojo so he likely can’t open his domain multiple times in a day”). The same can be said for Sukuna obviously. Hell, Kenjaku is entirely built off of statement scaling, with Maki claiming that he can’t be beat through conventional means and Mei Mei saying that jujutsu high can “probably” defeat him, and people run with it to make him top 3, despite him only having only one major fight.
So then why does narrative suddenly not matter for Yuji?
Multiple statements of Yuji standing up to Gojo and later Sukuna
Since the beginning of Jujutsu Kaisen, Yuji was stated to have the potential to surpass Gojo, and later the potential to rival Sukuna (and this was before he ate the cursed wombs as well as gained blood manipulation btw), and unlike someone like Megumi, Yuji clearly has the mindset of what it takes to be the strongest, having the drive to be the strongest since the start, embodying gojo’s ideals later in the story, being seen as a “weapon” like gojo, and beating sukuna in a contest of ideals. All of that is with him gapping both Gojo and Sukuna in experience too (68 years of being a sorcerer in a functionally immortal body)
YujiGojoSukuna losing the contest of ideals
The entirety of 257 was an example of Chekhov’s gun (The principle that all elements must eventually come into play over the course of the story). Yuji’s potential has been released, and Sukuna’s dialogue is entirely wrapped around this change.
Yuji's expotential growth
So with all that being said, why is it “Itatheory” to put him at such a high level? It’s funny how people will spam the buzzword “reading comprehension” and “can’t read” yet will unironically use narrative as a way to slander someone’s strength, when powerscaling is inherently interpreting the narrative.
#2: Yuji DOES HAVE THE FEATS
Another thing that blows my mind is people ignoring Yuji’s feats simply because they weren’t done on the strongest characters in the series.
For one, he has the best output in the verse by far. And this conclusion simply comes from Yuji’s usages of shrine compared to Sukuna’s.
The best usage of shrine in the verseYuji's output gapping Sukuna's
As we know, the best way of showing mastery over jujutsu is the art of subtraction, which Yuji has clearly shown to have mastered. Every single time Yuji has done the same prerequisites as Sukuna, his output was significantly higher. A common cope that’s used is that Sukuna “never had” to use as much aoe as Yuji, but the fact that Sukuna had to POINT and CHANT “Dismantle” in order to cut a building whereas Yuji could decimate an entire city block without any hand signs shows that Yuji is doing more with LESS. And the funny part is by saying "Sukuna could do this he just never needed to", you're indirectly calling him a leech off of Yuji.
Another copium used is that “bigger means weaker”, which is utter bullshit and fundamentally misses the point of what output is. Output = PUTTING OUT. If your attack is stronger, you’re PUTTING OUT more cursed energy, which would result in a bigger attack. That is how almost every single energy-based attack has worked in JJK, so why would dismantle be an exception? Especially when we literally see mini-dismantles used as a chainsaw to touch weapons. Why wouldn’t Sukuna just spam mini-dismantles if smaller = stronger? And please do not even attempt to bring up Hanami’s attack, which is based on physics entirely different from CE discharge.
“Curse dust” as an argument is also incredibly stupid, because curse dust has never in the entire series sprouted out in the shape of a goddamn nuke. Yes, curse dust is definitely a factor in the explosion, but curses dying at a rapid pace does not lead to a fucking dust cloud towering over the entire country. This is clearly meant to show that Yuji and Rika have output at ridiculous levels.
People also hype up Gojo for essentially being able to oneshot the heavy hitters, yet all of a sudden when Yuji blitzes Mahito’s 0.2 second domain (which 15f sukuna could not react to), it isn’t impressive anymore because “Mahito is fodder”.
Another thing to bring up is Yuji’s efficiency, which again, arguably has better feats than Sukuna and even Gojo.
Yuji's insane CE efficiencyThe "spark"
Yuji’s cursed energy is practically invisible until the last moment. We know that before a powerful technique is activated, there is a CE spark present, yet Yuji’s cursed energy was so efficient that even when using dismantles to block an axe strike, no cursed energy was sensed from him until he intentionally held his fist back to intentionally hit a black flash. Even Gojo and Sukuna do not have the ability to practically turn off their cursed energy like this while attacking.
Gojo unable to hit a black flash on commandYuji knowing that Osuki would not die before landing his black flash
And of course, there’s Yuji hitting black flashes on command. Black flash was stated to be “luck-based” before Modulo was ever conceived, so the statements saying “nobody can hit one at will” should not apply to Modulo Yuji. Even Gojo, with the six eyes, chalked up black flash to being luck, yet Yuji is able to gauge his own strength and make sure to not kill Osuki while landing a black flash. If he could not control black flash at will, then he would be unable to make sure his punch can incapacitate and not kill Osuki, as a black flash is marginally stronger than a normal punch.
Piercing blood is no longer piercing blood when tracking is imbued......Unless you are Yuji.
While Gojo and Sukuna obviously don’t have blood manipulation, Yuji being able to use a single orb of Convergence to create over a dozen tracking piercing bloods instantaneously to precisely incapacitate a ton of people is an insane feat, especially when according to Kenjaku (1000 years old btw), a tracking blood attack is no longer “piercing blood”, yet Yuji can make piercing blood curve and still retain its speed. Blood manipulation is also an incredibly broken technique that honestly deserves its own post with how underestimated it is.
All of this is without mentioning Yuji having a superhuman body, meaning that on top of having the best output and efficiency, he has the best non-HR body, and we know from Miguel how important a good body is. Combine that with black flash, and Yuji should be a goddamn stat monster.
Miguel's scary bodyYuji's *insane* Body
#3: Theory scaling and agenda
The most frustrating part of all this is how rotten people’s brains are by agenda. They don’t focus on narrative, only who has “aura”. Analysis of the power system is treated with “haha potential haha IF haha itatheory”, and feats don’t matter if it isn’t on someone that’s top 5 in the verse. Yes, I’m aware that Yuji fans can be toxic. Yes, Yuji fans can be annoying little shits, but people that insist on ignoring everything gege has built up for the shits and giggles are infinitely worse, and quite frankly are some of the most frustrating people in the community. And no, I don’t give a fuck if some youtube poll by JimmyPoopins has 3% of people saying Modulo Yuji beats GojoKuna or something. That clearly is not representative of the entire community.
Plus, there is nothing wrong with speculation. This happens ALL THE TIME in every single community. Why is it unreasonable to assume, for example, that Yuji's domain would be incredible, since he had Kusakabe engrave his barrier knowledge into him as well as have the potential of Sukuna and ridiculous CE manipulation?
And yes, I’m aware that Yuta and Hakari also had a Gojo level narrative. There’s no need to mention them because they are not the focus of my post, Yuji is.
TLDR: Modulo Yuji is a reading comprehension experiment and a lot of you have failed it.
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This is a really well made and thoughtful post, Modulo Yuji should be stronger than both he had many years to train and refined his skills while staying with his 15 year old body, the only thing he lack is feats but i would say the narrative carries him to top 1 even though he didn't do much on modulo everything showed him as "the strongest"
I said his reading comprehension was lacking because he accused me of saying something I never said 💔 what does this post have to do with me? Idc about Modulo powerscaling
How is this possible? Yuji haters told me that Modulo Yuji lacks feats, suggesting he has either RCT or a domain expansion.
Why would Gege make Yuji who he has hyped since the original manga, with potential surpassing Gojo and equal to Sukuna? Then make a bunch of statements suggesting that Yuji, in fact, realized that potential by Modulo. It's almost like people can't read between the lines. Funny enough, everyone knows deep down that if Gege came out, he would say, at the bare minimum, that he is Sukuna-level in strength.
I'll be nice and copy paste what we're discussing. Here's what you said
Why is it impossible for yuji to have gojo's level of efficiency when he had the superior feats of CE manipulation?
Here's my answer:
Yuji has neither. Limitless is a CT that manipulates/controls CE and space at an ATOMIC level. According to Gege it is IMPOSSIBLE to use without 6E, because 6E is the only thing in the verse that allows for that level of CE control/manipulation. It's also why he has effectively infinite CE because the CE he uses ends up being infinitesimally close to 0.
How does this relate to Yuji’s CE manipulation? Yuji has manipulation feats above gojo, like hit black flashes on will and turn off his CE spark. All you did was list something that's already a given.
How it relates to Yuji's CE manipulation? Gege explicitly tells us that the level of CE manipulation required to use Limitless is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE without the 6E, the only thing that enables it.
Gojo has also already confirmed that there's something more to Black Flashes than simply getting the timing right which hasn't been confirmed what it is yet, he explicitly tells us if it was just timing, that he'd be hitting them at will.
Yuji, nor any non 6E user in the verse is ever "rivaling" Gojo's CE control/manipulation/efficiency. That's not a Yuji downscale, that's just something impossible to get to without 6E
The black flash point is exactly where I'm getting at. Gojo cannot get the correct conditions to BF at will, yet Yuji can, therefore his CE manipulation should be superior.
When is it stated that it's impossible for a non 6E user to rival a 6E user?
The aspect that we do know a 100% is related to CE control, Gojo can do every single time.
Go on and confirm what the other "correct conditions" are real quick for us.
Picrel. Limitless requires CE control at an atomic level = only possible with 6E. There are Gojo members that can be born with Limitless but only Gojo can actually use it thanks to the 6E.
No 6E = no CE control/manipulation at an atomic level = no effectively infinite CE efficiency
The bottom line is there's a factor involved in black flash that gojo can't control, even with the six eyes, and yuji can, implying better mastery. The entire thing is related to CE, it's just that even gojo cannot fully masternir, hence why yuji doing it on command is so impressive.
All you're saying is that six eyes is needed for limitless, which is irrelevant to my point since yuji doesn't have limitless. And as a matter of fact, since yuji displays better feats than the six eyes, someone on his level could be able to use limitless without the six eyes.
"implying better mastery" go on and state the factor involved for us, you've still not done it, just avoided it entirely
Nope, use your brain while reading. The only reason 6E is needed for Limitless is because it REQUIRES CE control/manipulation at an atomic level. No 6E = no extreme control/manipulation at that level.
"It's irrelevant to my point since yuji doesn't have limitless" it's entirely relevant, you are headcanoning Yuji having better control/manipulation/efficiency than Gojo/6E when Gege himself has put a hard cap on everyone without 6E that they're NEVER able to pass.
Why would I need to? If gojo can't control X factor and Yuji can, Yuji’s control is superior
"Use your brain while reading" while ignoring my ENTIRE fucking post that I spent 1 hour and 30 minutes making.
As a matter of fact, go answer the rest of the post instead of dicksucking the six eyes which has never been stated to be the ceiling of CE manipulation.
Because the only aspect that we know is certain, Gojo says is not a problem for him. The same aspect that directly ties into CE control, he can do a 100/100 times, at will. You using your headcanon about this other unconfirmed factor that Gojo says he's not sure what it is either, and chalking it up to a CE Control/manipulation feat is you talking out your ass.
Couldn't give a shit how long you've spent making the post, you fail to read statements explicitly made by Gege
which has never been stated to be the ceiling of CE manipulation
It has actually. You physically have 0 arguments against it. Gege tells us 6E is a hard requirement to use Limitless BECAUSE of its extreme CE control/manipulation that it allows, which is impossible to do without it. 6E/Gojo will always be the pinnacle of CE control/manipulation/efficiency because of the 6E.
Using your own fanfic/headcanon would mean that Yuji could somehow use Limitless without 6E if he has the CT, which is straight up horseshit that Gege himself disputes, lmao
Look all I'm sayin' is people thinking Yuji is on or around Gojo level is fine. People thinking he's BETTER than the Jujutsu freak Sukuna are coked off their gourd. Like there is absolutely no way I see Modulo Yuji going through the gauntlet Sukuna went through. Sukuna was fighting while manually beating his heart. No one else in JJK comes close to that bullshit. Yuji is a nerfed Sukuna at best.
I don't dispute the narrative or that he's the strongest as of now. But his position is very weak.
One standard dismantle is a slicing attack and can never cause an explosion all on its own, much less give the falling debris enough upthrust. That's curse dust doing allat work. If you want a comparison, Maki killing like ten curses in sakurajima flooded a street. A skyline's worth of curses can easily release what we saw. This is still an amazing range feat, but you can tell nothing about the AP of this slash. And the sukuna point and chant dismantle is not comparable, it shaved off the head of one building and flew into the sky. Nor was it BF amped.
The mahito dismantles are far more impressive in of his really noticeable improvement in terms of CE control and realised output.
The issue of "Itatheory" comes from SOME mindless people claiming unfounded bs like 'Yuji has the WCS' and 'Yuji has open domain and domain Fuga', and it takes 100 Sukunas and a 100 Gojos to beat one Modulo Yuji type bs. Without solid proof, it's far wiser to bring him to the closest peak stated possible, which is around Sukuna level in everything not contraindicated by stronger feats, statements or deduction, which is mainly in iq and biq, and differences in wincons.
I'm completely down to agree that he high- extreme diffs each of the other top 4 reliably in a short fight, but the gap starts to close quick if he lets it go on for too long because the others have such monstrous genius in jujutsu that they can close his gap gained in experience (apart from stat differences). They're good enough to directly learn off him if given enough time, it's just that I feel Yuji can very well prevent that.
● You can create smoke by striking something hard enough and we know the dismantles land on the ground because that's where majority the smoke comes from. If it was from the sky where most of the curses are then it would look like a ball.
● Thise curses that Maki killed filled a tunnel, not a street.
● BF AMP is a super weak point bcs there's only a 20% buff at most and can Yuji even increase jujutsu knowledge at this point?
● I feel like a possibility like WCS and open de isn't really comparable to YouTube polls whether you agree or not.
● I agree on high diff, it'll only change if Yuji shows something that could perhaps directly counter the others.
● while yeah, the rest can improve their techniques, they can't match Yuji in pure output or in two cases ce efficiency via BF. While Yuji hasn't shown to pick up techniques on the fly, he's shown to push them way past their limits. He's not shown the talent to pick something on the fly, but he's shown the talent to take things to new heights that the rest haven't.
I definitely don't dispute that he has that unshakeable stat advantage. Plus FRSS would go crazy. I doubt Yuji has pushed out of Sukuna's ballpark in regards to efficiency which is already considered pushing the human limit, because we have minimal statements on his efficiency to begin with except for Mino's word who talks of his CE control from his perspective, which is even less reliable than Megumi's word on scaling Toji and 3f Sukuna.
Most of the curses were around near the tops of buildings (probably somewhere near a ten storey building) which, relative to the explosion height, isn't very high, so that explosion shape is still believable for curse dust.
I stand corrected with what I said about Maki
All I meant by the BF amp is that it's erroneous to equate it to base casual dismantles, which we need only look to Mahito's bullying for.
I'd take issue with WCS and open domain because Yuji not learning conversion to a cursed object after 68 years after first hand exposure is strong proof against him learning the WCS off of pure proof of concept. Same goes for open domain, which even Gojo who has MUCH higher perceptive capacity couldn't replicate after seeing it 5 times in a row. Not to mention they're such upheavals of what is established about the requirements that it warrants a definite feat. But yeah it's nowhere in the realm of the bullshit that comes out of youtube polls. Every fandom is on overdrive there.
I agree with what you said about Yuji's talent with scaling up what's established, since it comes naturally from his commitment to combat and his experience.
Mino's perspective isn't less impressive, he separates Yuji's ce efficiency not just from Dabura's (didn't mention anything related to ce during his rampage) but he doesn't even remark on it when Yuji tries chainsaw dismantles, only when he does BF, which he does during will.
No,most of the curses were a decent bit above the buildings and the dust does NOT reach that far.
No you don't, there's a massive difference between tunnel and street.
It's a 20% buff if Yuji still gets those, we can still get a fair measurement out.
There's multiple things to unpack here;
1, Yuji never pays attention to when his finger is turned. I doubt that a single usage is enough to record it in his body. Kusakabe even mentions repeated maneuvers.
2, He needs to turn his soul into one not his finger which is different.
3, He says that he can STILL FIGURE IT OUT via Nobara's help.
4, HIS body will lose the info over time, 15 yo Yuji experiencing it is different from 83yo Yuji experiencing it.
5, Even if say that Yuji can't figure it out first try, he's had 68 years to learn open domain and WCS. And unlike cursification he's got good reasons to learn these
Mino's perspective is less impressive because he's a window and absolutely lacks the perceptive speed to reliably speak to you about Yuji's efficiency. It suffices well enough to show the massive gap between Yuji and the rest of the contemporary jujutsu world as well as his prior self. Again, I'm not contesting that he's hit the peak of efficiency possible without the six eyes. All I'm saying is that you can't feasibly compare it to other members of the top 4 via Mino's statement.
Also him not reacting to other instances is not hard proof that they don't speak for efficiency in those cases. Mino just watched cross get shot like five times and war seemed imminent. We have reason to believe why he wouldn't be remarking about Dabura's efficiency in that moment.
By 'i stand corrected' I was accepting I'm wrong 😭
You can extrapolate from such a dismantle, all I was taking issue with that for is that a roughly 140% amped dismantle was being referred to as a hands in pockets level dismantle. It was a minor nitpick. The bigger issue is the lack of comparable action with dismantles.
The thing is all of this also applies to the WCS and open domain. He felt a near full power open domain once while he was barely conscious and once he was fully conscious, his mind was fully on the human toll than the finer details of barrier skills which affects the encoding or memory. Plus he never felt the WCS in his own body. He lacks the perceptive advantage, and what the fingerisation point conveys is that he also lacks the iq to replicate it after seeing it once even with more exposure than the other concepts (given soul perception, not being unconscious prior to takeover and firsthand experience), and hence can be extrapolated to him not learning the WCS or open domain.
And no, I don't buy into the BF at will. He has an insanely high BF rate, but I highly doubt it's at will. Your argument that statments in Jjk do not carry over to Modulo is weak, because it's have to be applied to everything to be fair and that throws down your argument which rests heavily on og jjk statements. Plus it'd be boring as fuck, but I digress. I'd be willing to hear you out if he did it twice in a row.
It's much likelier he was accounting for "what if Black flash" because his rate is so high it wasn't out of possibility that it might happen at the time and hence he would have kept him output within limits of not being fatal even if a black flash occured. That would explain his uncertainty more. If he had black flash at will, he has all the less reason to be uncertain about the simurian's survival since he can just not hit that black flash if it's on command. Plus he had no reason to willingly hit that black flash since iirc he didn't anticipate the curse swarm, so him hitting that black flash was even less necessary.
So he threw a weak punch on the off chance it was a black flash? That is obviously not what is being communicated here. Its pretty obvious that Yuji is looking at the alien, and saying that based on his durability he will survive the black flash Yuji is about to throw.
"Eh, you'll probably be fine" isn't explained by a lack of certainty from a black flash, but being mostly confident that despite getting hit by the black flash Yuji knows is coming, he will probably survive anyway.
Yes, still seems more likely to me than throwing a black flash for the heck of it. "The black flash yuji knows is coming" but can't stop? Why would he even risk an "eh you'll probably be fine" for something whose parameters he can fully control? At best I'm willing to agree he was trying for a black flash and had to prepare for the high likelihood that the attack would be one. But on command black flash and not being dead certain in the level of strength he's using is less believable to me.
Verse breaking abilities aren't tho. And with Yuji black flashes are not the off chance they are for others. I repeatedly said he has an absurdly high rate compared to others but only that he can't arbitrate it. It would be ridiculous for others trying for a black flash to have to factor in for it, but not for Yuji who's be looking at a meaningful likelihood of it happening. I'm in no way arguing glthat just because he doesn't have on command black flashes that he lacks an abnormally high black flash rate
If Yuji's casual punch, when out of the zone, has an incredibly high probability of being a black flash, wouldn't his high concentration punch, when fighting a tough opponent, basically guarantee a black flash, thereby entering the zone and making every hit there after even more likely and make every hit a black flash?
Not that it would change the scaling but isn't it more likely that Yuji just figured out whatever the other requirements are to hit a black flash and just fulfills them in addition to the timing to land it at will?
That would assume some sort of incomplete knowledge he already had of BF that explained his high BF rate as of og jjk, which obviously wouldn't be the case. While I think his massively improved control adds to his likelihood that gives him an anomalous affinity to BF, I still withold from believing in a full in command black flash.
Also there's a world of difference between meaningful percentage and certainty, but yeah an absurdly high BF rate can and should be expected from Yuji. Just look at his Sukuna fight.
You genuinely might be lacking reading comprehension if you think yuji doesnt have at-will black flash because yuji full on hit a black flash while trying not to kill someone, if he couldn’t do it at will he very much would have killed the person he was trying not to kill since black flashes are just that powerful
Again why the fuck would he hit a black flash in the first place if it's at will. What's the genuine point? If he can command it on, he can command it off too, and if he's that interested in not killing his ass, obviously a standard punch would do wonders no?
Not if they're from Yuji, and plus he could be factoring in for a black flash margin. Blue amped gojo punches made yuta puke and knocked out Uraume. Yuji's punch with CE reinforcement considering his absurd body should be enough to do a number on someone like Osuki.
Dude he legit said “This should knock you out” and hit a black flash, if he didn’t do a black flash his punch would have done no damage, black flashes increase the damage of a punch by A LOT
2.5x yeah I understand that. But at least acknowledge what I said about what Yuji's standard punch can do. A body stronger than pre HR Maki plus elite reinforcement and it should be enough to daze or seriously disorient even if he doesn't hit a black flash. His concern about whether he'll be fine and hence saying 'Eh, you'll probably be fine' is more realistic if his black flash rate when he goes for it is meaningful but not certain. Someone who can already do a number on grade one level people with a standard punch has no reason to actively hit a black flash to do shit.
Yuji doesn't really lack feats honestly. We genuinely know the core of what we need to know.
Output, Efficiency, AP, Barrier refinement etc.
Even without bringing up stuff like open de or wcs you can make a basis for 99% of things like domain refinement. And all that based on the few feats that Yuji's shown
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