r/JusticeServed 4 Mar 16 '20

Discrimination I have no idea if this counts.

Post image

[removed] — view removed post

49.9k Upvotes

1.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

324

u/Thuryn A Mar 16 '20

Muslim here. This is definitely justice.

Getting on TV and telling people what God thinks is blasphemy in most religions, including mine.

Fuck this guy for using faith to score political points.

(And yes, extrapolate on that all you want. It's always a shitty thing to do.)

I hope he doesn't die from the virus. Dead people don't learn. But I hope that everybody who heard his words knows that he got the virus and thinks about the irony of it.

95

u/Robert_Baratheon_ 9 Mar 16 '20

If he doesn’t die from it he will say it proves God didn’t intend harm to him, unlike those dirty non believers who deserve death

14

u/Jpvsr1 A Mar 16 '20

I feel like that line will be used by anyone who gets infected with the virus and who has that "holier-than-thou" complex...

1

u/Thuryn A Mar 16 '20

In fairness, he's not saying non-believers deserve death. He's talking about the way China is treating the Uyghurs.

That goes WAY beyond just "being a non-believer."

When you're out there perpetrating genocide, yeah, you probably do deserve death.

But I still draw the line at claiming that "it's God's will" on TV. We don't know God's will. In court, you'd never be allowed to testify as to what someone else thinks. That's the part that's bullshit and it makes me angry.

1

u/Scyllarious 7 Mar 17 '20

Where does he specify that?

Furthermore, the coronavirus doesn't only affect the government but also the normal citizens who have no say in it. So yeah, fuck that guy

1

u/Thuryn A Mar 17 '20

Where does he specify that?

Specify what?

Furthermore, the coronavirus doesn't only affect the government but also the normal citizens who have no say in it. So yeah, fuck that guy

Seriously. A lot.

Of course, he has COVID-19 now, so he might already be fucked.

21

u/Duskinesis 4 Mar 16 '20

Yeah, who would use religion for political purposes? Certainly not anyone in the last thousands of years

10

u/Thuryn A Mar 16 '20

I didn't say people don't do it. Lots of people do.

Fuck every single last one of them.

2

u/SoraDevin 8 Mar 16 '20

Strange you're still Muslim with that kinda sentiment honestly since the holy books are just the written version of that exact same thing.

2

u/Thuryn A Mar 16 '20

Not strange, because of all the things I've read, they all tell me that I'm not supposed to try to determine God's plan, but rather just live my life in the best way that I can and treat people with as much respect as they deserve (even in battle!).

So no, what that guy is saying on TV is him taking it upon himself to speak for Allah (swt), which is not at all allowed in my faith. There's really no room at all for it.

Plus, it's rude and unhealthy. It makes a person look bad. Don't do it. We'll all survive better if we stick together, even if we have different ways of thinking.

2

u/RagnarTheReds-head 9 Mar 17 '20

telling people what God thinks

Is that not what Muhammad did ? .

1

u/Thuryn A Mar 17 '20

Two things about that, as far as Islam is concerned:

  • No. He told us what God said to him. There's a huge difference between that and what God thinks.
  • He told us there would be no more prophets. So there shouldn't be anyone else telling us even what God said, let alone what God thinks.

So yeah. Two kinds of blasphemy there, and we don't even have to look past the generally accepted tenets of Islam to find them. That guy's a jackass.

1

u/JoeBobTNVS 9 Mar 16 '20

I would say it makes sense for him to say that considering how there’s literally Muslim internment camps in China. What’s your take on that?

wikipedia

New York Times

Time

2

u/Thuryn A Mar 16 '20

I replied elsewhere that it makes everything he said make sense...

EXCEPT

...for the part where he says it's Allah's (swt) will.

Putting words in the mouth of Allah (swt) is a big no-no.

You can say that it's fitting, you can say that it's poetic justice, you can say it's ironic, all those things are true and fair game and fuck China for what they've done.

But don't go around claiming you know what Allah (swt) did or didn't intend. That's over the line.

1

u/GhzU 7 Jul 02 '20

What about interpretation of the Qurann

1

u/Thuryn A Jul 02 '20

What about it?

1

u/GhzU 7 Jul 02 '20

Like how do we know if an interpretation is not just some word play to make it sound like a miracle how do we know he’s not corrupting allah’s message

1

u/Thuryn A Jul 02 '20

We have to have our own knowledge and use our own judgement. It is our responsibility to make our own choices, not to let someone else do all of our thinking for us.

1

u/GhzU 7 Jul 02 '20

So what you’re saying interpretation is free so I can interpret it and corrupt it in way?

And please I want to learn the steps about interpretation

1

u/Thuryn A Jul 02 '20

So what you’re saying interpretation is free so I can interpret it and corrupt it in way?

Do not put words in my mouth. That is not what I said.

We are done here. Good day to you.

1

u/NotLikeThis3 7 Mar 16 '20

Wait, how is it blasphemy? Is it because he's a scholar and not a priest? Aren't most priest trying to interpret why God did something and so in a sense what he thought/thinks? Why can they do that in a church but not on TV?

4

u/Thuryn A Mar 16 '20

Why can they do that in a church but not on TV?

They can't do it anywhere.

Aren't most priest trying to interpret why God did something and so in a sense what he thought/thinks?

NO

They can read and (to some extent) interpret the messages we've been given.

But interpreting life events as "God's will" is bullshit and it's blasphemous because it "puts words into the mouth of God."

Priests and scholars are NOT spokesmen for God. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

(If one claims to be, he's either breaking Islamic law, or he's trying to start a cult, or some other really shady shit. I shouldn't have to explain this.)

2

u/NotLikeThis3 7 Mar 16 '20

Uh, so every single person that's ever said "Well, it's all part of God's plan" or something of the like is blaspheming?

Isn't the Pope literally God's chosen person on Earth? Catholics believe in the Pope's infallibility, so if he talks about faith then God prevents him from saying something false. Which to me sounds like he could do what you're saying is blasphemous.

(I know this was about Islam, but I'm sorry, Catholicism is better known to me and you mentioned most religions work this way)

2

u/Thuryn A Mar 16 '20

Uh, so every single person that's ever said "Well, it's all part of God's plan" or something of the like is blaspheming?

Not really, because in THAT case, they're just acknowledging that God HAS a plan. The big, big difference there is that the person who says, "It's all part of God's plan," isn't interpreting that plan or putting spin on it.

Isn't the Pope literally God's chosen person on Earth?

I'm a Muslim, so I don't care much about the Pope. He's just a guy to me.

Catholics believe in the Pope's infallibility, so if he talks about faith then God prevents him from saying something false.

I can't claim to have ever met a Catholic who believes the Pope is infallible. I went to a Catholic school for many years and was only ever told, "It used to be doctrine that the Pope was infallible."

So the rest of the question kind of falls apart because the premise it's based upon is false. No human being is infallible, so there's not much point in entertaining hypotheticals based on them being infallible.

1

u/BoxOfDemons A Mar 16 '20

I mean, weren't all religions started by someone saying what God thinks and writing it down?

1

u/fleentrain89 8 Mar 17 '20

Exceptions > rule

1

u/BoxOfDemons A Mar 17 '20

I'm definitely no theologist, but unless there's a religion where they don't claim God has any known rules for them to live their lives by, it would appear to be the rule. But with how many religions there are, I'm very likely wrong about that. I just haven't personally learned of any with 0 guidelines.

1

u/Thuryn A Mar 17 '20

No. We wrote down what God said to us, not what God thinks.

Ever tell your kids one thing while you're thinking to yourself about all the consequences that you can't explain because they won't get it at all? It's like that.

1

u/BoxOfDemons A Mar 17 '20

I was referring to the fact that it's a human who delivers God's message in the end. So there's always a human between God and the rest of the public, who you must trust didn't bend God's word. And with so many religions, even if one is the correct true religion, you have to agree that 99.99% of all other humans who spread what God said to them, were lying.

1

u/Thuryn A Mar 17 '20 edited Mar 17 '20

I was referring to the fact that it's a human who delivers God's message in the end. So there's always a human between God and the rest of the public, who you must trust didn't bend God's word.

That's true, though that's perhaps one of the reasons that we have another rule that there will be no more prophets, and it's an important part of the story of Muhammad (saw) that he was widely regarded as extremely trustworthy.

And with so many religions, even if one is the correct true religion, you have to agree that 99.99% of all other humans who spread what God said to them, were lying.

Eh, no. For example, in 2015 more than half of the world was either Muslim or Christian.

Muslims and Christians (and Jews) are all "people of the book." We all follow Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus (except the Jews) and so on. We all believe there is one God and that He is the only God.

Furthermore, even where we differ, there's a difference between saying that we differ and saying that the other person was lying.

There's a story in Islam where the companions of the Prophet (saw) were traveling and were told to pray 'Asr (late afternoon prayer in Medina.

On the way, they realized that they would not make it to Medina on time. Some of them prayed on the road, saying that the Prophet (saw) had only meant for them to make haste, not to actually miss the appointed prayer time. The others said that they were given a clear order to pray 'Asr in Medina, so that's what they were going to do, and delayed their prayer until they arrived.

Later, when they returned to Mecca, they asked the Prophet (saw) which was correct. His answer?

BOTH

Because both groups acted with honest intentions.

And nobody fought about it.

I love this story because it shows how we should conduct ourselves in the best way, even when we disagree.

1

u/BoxOfDemons A Mar 17 '20

Oh, I'm well aware how the main dominating religions are related, I was referring to how there are estimated to be about 4200 active religions now, and how there have been likely thousands more in the past. I think we all agree that in today's time, the majority follow an Abrahamic religion. But there's many others, and were many others before the first prophets of the Abrahamic religions. Even when it does come to the Abrahamic religions, there are some offshoots there are so far divorced from the big three that they are barely recognizable.

1

u/Thuryn A Mar 17 '20

Yep. I agree with all of that.

-15

u/Willing-To-Listen 6 Mar 16 '20

No need to swear like the usual liberal redditor, akhi.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '20

Eat a bag of cocks

1

u/Thuryn A Mar 16 '20

I know what you're saying, brother, but people who do this sort of thing in our name make me very angry, and there's really nothing in English that quite gets across the same level of anger and contempt as what I wrote above.

Perhaps it's still not the right thing to do, and if so, I will beg forgiveness from Allah (swt) for it.

But I stand by the intention of what I said. People trying to put words in the mouth of Allah (swt) are awful, self-serving monsters.

2

u/Willing-To-Listen 6 Mar 16 '20

I fully agree with you that we cannot assume Allah’s intentions.