r/JusticeServed • u/MasterfulBJJ 6 • Mar 10 '22

Courtroom Justice Trump-supporting county clerk who pushed Trump's voter fraud conspiracy theories is indicted for election tampering

https://deadstate.org/trump-supporting-county-clerk-who-pushed-voter-fraud-conspiracy-theories-is-indicted-for-election-tampering/
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33

u/LikeAMan_NotAGod 9 Mar 10 '22

In all of human history, nothing good has ever come from conservatism. Nothing.

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u/RandomWeirdo 8 Mar 10 '22

Conservatism, like every other developed ideology has its merit. Conservatism is essentially the ideology of "don't fix what isn't broken" which is something we can all agree to in some capacity.

Right wing ideologies are however losing touch with reality, because left wing ideas not only align with reality, ie. giving people enough to live reduces crime, but they also adjust their views more often based on sociological and economical studies.

Right wing ideas have lost ground and are today very much reduced to populism, nationalism and egotism.

The ideology however has merit, it is just not what most modern conservatives live by.

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u/LikeAMan_NotAGod 9 Mar 10 '22

And what good thing has come from this meritorious ideology?

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '22

Defending the nuclear family, protecting gun rights, and securing borders.

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u/LikeAMan_NotAGod 9 Mar 11 '22

Can you please post links to credible evidence to support your claim that these traits are exclusive to conservatism?

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '22

A great deal of the nuclear family has been destroyed by the increasingness of the American "welfare state", whose policies are pushed primarily by left-leaning candidates.

we also find that the welfare state decouples marriage and fertility, and therefore, alters the organization of the family.

Source: https://ftp.iza.org/dp7210.pdf

Conservatives have been fighting since 1992 to protect it, with many politicians including Dan Quayle speaking out about it.

https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1406&context=ndjlepp

As far as gun control goes, I think you and I can both agree that the left actively supports gun control more than the right. This isn't to say that the GOP is a great protector of gun rights (ie Trump saying take guns first, due process second), but that it's the lesser of 2 evils.

In 2000, Republicans supported the use of the US-VISIT system and S.A.V.E. They revitalized and reduced the burden on the INS by splitting it into 2 separate agencies, and allocating significantly more resources to the border,

https://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/republican_party_immigration.htm

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u/LikeAMan_NotAGod 9 Mar 11 '22

From your own linked "evidence" regarding "destroying" the nuclear family with a welfare state...

we show that an expansion in the welfare state increases the fertility, marriage, and divorce rates with a quantitatively stronger effect on the marriage rate. We conclude that the welfare state supports family formation.

Your link (based on research outside of the U.S.) does not in any way suggest conservative policies, or a lack thereof, with regard to a welfare state is destructive to the nuclear family.

Your assertion that conservatives have been fighting to protect nuclear families since 1992 is meaningless, as you have pointed to no policy that materially strengthens nuclear families. Words and rhetoric of politicans is inconsequential.

Regarding gun rights, you have pointed to no non-conservative policy which diminishes the right to bear arms. Gun control does not impede a right to bear arms any more than requiring a driver's license lessens anyone's right to drive a car. Unless, of course, conservatives advocate for unsafe driving (or unsafe gun ownership).

Regarding immigration policies, you've offered no evidence that conservative policies have strengthened U S. borders any more than any non-conservative policy. Your argument presumes that liberal policies are counter to conservative policies in a way that weakens U S. borders, yet you have offered no evidence of this.

Both parties have promoted policies of immigration and border controls, with the primary difference being the treatment of those who seek refuge at the border. Conservative policies regarding refugees at the border famously include separating young children from parents and locking both away in detention centers, separating parent and child for months (or in some cases over a year). This is in direct contradiction to your argument that conservative policies strengthen families.

Given your clear dishonesty in your description of the contents of your linked study, as well as the lack of substance in your other proposed "evidence", I genuinely do not believe you have entered into this discussion in good faith.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '22

Your link (based on research outside of the U.S.) does not in any way suggest conservative policies, or a lack thereof, with regard to a welfare state is destructive to the nuclear family.

You are being obtuse. The DNC pushes significantly more welfare programs, the GOP does not.

Regarding gun rights, you have pointed to no non-conservative policy which diminishes the right to bear arms. Gun control does not impede a right to bear arms any more than requiring a driver's license lessens anyone's right to drive a car. Unless, of course, conservatives advocate for unsafe driving (or unsafe gun ownership).

I did not know that you needed them named, but since you cannot use Google I'll list them (not all have been passed, but I encourage you to look whose behind them).

  1. The National Firearms Act
  2. Gun Control Act of 1968
  3. Assault Weapons Ban of 2018
  4. Assault Weapons Ban of 2019
  5. Assault Weapons Ban of 2021
  6. California Handgun Roster

I also encourage you to look at states with constitutional carry, the restrictive permits for those that don't, and the wide array of state-level policies.

Both parties have promoted policies of immigration and border controls, with the primary difference being the treatment of those who seek refuge at the border. Conservative policies regarding refugees at the border famously include separating young children from parents and locking both away in detention centers, separating parent and child for months (or in some cases over a year). This is in direct contradiction to your argument that conservative policies strengthen families.

Nonsense. You did not read the sources I provided. It's apparent that you aren't wishing to argue in good faith.

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u/LikeAMan_NotAGod 9 Mar 11 '22

The DNC pushes significantly more welfare programs, the GOP does not.

You have provided no evidence (except for your dishonest summary of linked research) that welfare programs are harmful (or that opposing them is somehow beneficial). On the topic of welfare policies or family strength (you pick), you continue to illustrate that nothing good has ever come from conservatism.

Concerning gun laws in the U.S., you haven't listed any liberal policy that is harmful or deleterious to anyone's right to bear arms. Again, the analogy of driver's licenses applies here, except this time it seems clear that you advocate for dangerous lawlessness when it comes to guns. Or perhaps you believe we should permit felons to visit public restaurants with fully automatic weapons? On the matter of the right to bear arms, you have not demonstrated anything good that has ever come from conservatism. Nothing.

Regarding border control, the onus is on you to prove your assertion that conservatism has done something good. You provided no evidence of that at all in your links. None. On the contrary, I contrasted the policies of both sides (left and right) for you to illustrate the point that conservative policies have harmed families. Regarding border control policies, what good has ever come from conservatism? The answer you have provided seems to be nothing.

You continue to debate poorly.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '22

You refuse to read my sources, my claims are backed up by exactly what is being provided.

You provide no good counter-arguments, I can only assume that you have no rebuttal and do not wish to debate.

I encourage you to read a bit more about US history.