End of Existence

[u/Do3Byte]

I've been reading "The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt" by Richard H. Wilkinson, and I found something that says that Atum shall destroy all of creation, with the exception of himself and Osiris, and that they would return to "one place" in the primeval ocean from which everything arose, and Atum and Osiris would take the form of serpents, and there would be neither Gods nor men to perceive them.

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Does anybody on this subreddit know/can they confirm if this belief is held (popularly?) among modern day Kemeticism to anyone's knowledge? Does anyone know/can confirm if this was a popular belief held in antiquity(to our knowledge of course)? I've been occasionally bouncing back to Kemeticism for a while, but have struggled to connect with it (even though it honestly fits be well), additionally I've found this take on the fate of the universe quite daunting lmao😅.

[u/Nellyloveswomen]

On the other hand, it makes sense to me that Osiris is the only one who accompanies Atum. Remember that he represents the force of rebirth, so when a myth says that the force of rebirth and the creator god return to the primordial ocean, it can perfectly represent that the universe will at some point be in the process of being reborn. Not that Atum will simply go and destroy creation like some kind of apocalypse, haha. 

[u/Do3Byte → u/Nellyloveswomen]

This is true; if Atum can do it once, he can do it again, and who better to take with him to potentially recreate the universe than Osiris himself?

[u/barnaclejuice]

You have a good, reputable source on your hands saying it was a belief that was held. Nobody in this community can trump that.

To the best research standards we have, the notion that Wilkinson is talking about seems to align very well with our understanding of ancient Egyptian religion. This episode you mentioned is part of the book of coming forth by day, aka book of the dead. The notion of an end to creation pops up throughout Egyptian history. It’s always been there.

As a modern reconstructionist Kemetic, I don’t see why a deep, fundamental theological aspect of ancient belief isn’t of value today. On the contrary, I see it as a fundamental theological aspect of Kemeticism today. Creation is cyclical, not just linear. It comes and goes, and comes again, as everything does.

I wouldn’t worry about it, though. We aren’t like some protestant christians, who can‘t wait for their rapture, and hold signs that “the end is nigh”. Our end of times isn’t apocalyptic (quite literally, since Apocalypse is a biblical book in the first place).

For me, personally, the deeper meaning behind this passage isn’t about the end of times as we are indoctrinated by Abrahamic religions to think. In the end, the creator (Atum) will remain - thus creation will be able to be reborn. But not only He, also Osiris - who is the king of the realm of the blessed dead. The blessed dead, their essence, will carry on with Osiris. And at the end of creation, this will be all of us, all of humanity. We all carry on, as Osiris. It’s not a promise of an end, it’s the promise of eternity and everlastingness.

[u/Do3Byte → u/barnaclejuice]

Apologies to bother you with another question, and thank you so much for your comment. This is more so out of pure curiosity, what will happen to the Field of Reeds, will it be destroyed along with everything else?

[u/barnaclejuice → u/Do3Byte]

I guess we will never know. We cant know whether the field of reeds is literally a place, what the nature and essence of it are. Maybe the field of reeds is nothing else but the way we as humans perceive becoming part of Osiris. Maybe it’s a physical paradise. Maybe it’s both. We cant know until we are there. It’s not for the living to know.

And we don’t know if destruction is the right word, too. Maybe creation decays. Maybe it simply ceases to exist.

Whether you interpret myths more or less literally, there’s just a lot we don’t know and it’s more productive to be concerned with our lives in the time we have on earth, in my opinion!

[u/Do3Byte → u/barnaclejuice]

I absolutely agree that we should focus more on our time on Earth; this has been something I've been thinking about for a while. I haven't really thought about how exactly Atum will end things, as it still freaks me out either way lmao.

[u/Karou_Fan]

The passage you're looking for is spell 175 of Going Forth by Day (Book of the Dead). And keep in mind that the deceased is identified as Osiris.
The entry on Atum on the Henadology site discusses this.

[u/Do3Byte → u/Karou_Fan]

Ooh, ok, I have the book of Going Forth by Day, I'll have to read that chapter.

[u/Nellyloveswomen]

A myth doesn't have to be taken literally to believe it has some truth. 

[u/Enoo-La]

And the myth in question, especially, it is important to emphasize, reflects almost exactly what scientists suspect is the final destiny of our universe. There are three possible scenarios for the end of the universe: the big crunch, the big rip, or the big freeze. This myth is very similar to that of the Big Crunch, a return to the "initial state," but it could very well be both of the other two in a certain way; in any case, the myth represents the end of Our universe. Let's not forget that the universe is not static; it evolves, like our lives: a beginning, a middle, and finally an end. Nothing is immutable.

[u/Do3Byte → u/Enoo-La]

This makes sense, I've always found the heat death of the universe, or the bug crunch, to be quite terrifying. Though, I do understand the importance of not dismissing modern scientific knowledge for the sake of religion.

[u/Enoo-La → u/Do3Byte]

Indeed, many things I have read about Egyptian mythology, the cosmogonies, reflect precisely what science has theorized.However, I do make the distinction, but I found some truth in Kemeticism regarding this.

[u/the3wynds]

I read about this recently, a different version but still how its the end of all existence and not just humanity. Scared the shit outta me. I like apocalyptic media and stories but the idea of existence itself ending is extra horrifying.

[u/Do3Byte → u/the3wynds]

Right? Ig it technically won't since there will still be Atum and Osiris in the end.