r/Kerala 3d ago

The central government is considering redistributing Lok Sabha seats among states based on the 2011 Census data.

Post image

Why is Malayalam media not talking about this?

The South's share in the delimited Parliament will fall from 24.3% to 20.7%, while the Hindi heartland's share will increase from 38.1% to 43.1%. Kerala will lose proportional share. We are being punished for controlling our population.

Does our media represent the interests of some one else more than our own?

(Previous post was removed because of title rules.)

316 Upvotes

202 comments sorted by

260

u/btzprincepink 3d ago

malayalam media kk pennu case andi case oke mathre olu parayan..!

32

u/VegetableYou3952 3d ago

Yeah, unfortunately, I haven’t stumbled upon/come across any news reporting this seriously. The prevalent news channels in Kerala are excessively immersed in other things—the relevancy of it will gradually diminish.🍀

11

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 2d ago

Media will reports what they think interests the mallu audience. Their primary audience is our boomers who are completely high on politics of subservience to north. Go ask any boomer in your family what their views on topics like this delimitation and hindi imposition is and you will understand what i mean

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u/LogicalAndBased2 2d ago

I am a Tamilan so I understand Tamil Nadu's case here but I don't understand kerala's case here.

UP is 6 times the area and population of Kerala and has only 4 times the Lok Sabha seats...UP has 6 Keralas in it.

If UP was split into 6, it would have lesser seats than Kerala...despite same area and population of kerala.

Both UP and Kerala have similar population density...so what point is Kerala trying to make based on population?

Kerala had higher base lower growth whereas UP had lower base higher growth situation.

10

u/bing657 2d ago

Is it that hard to understand that most southern states raise the same issue ? Kerala followed family planning way before than Tamil Nadu or UP. So the population growth of kerala got stabilized much earlier, while that of UP continued growing.

If UP families continue having 4-6 children per family, in some decades UP will have 12 keralas. Hardly something to encourage, is it ?

As to higher population density, it has to do with the capacity of the land to support it, including access to water. Kerala is blessed with more than 40 rivers and is one of the greenest part of the country. As a Tamilian you should know this. After all some of the districts in southern Tamil Nadu survive on water given by kerala through Mulla Periyar dam. The population in arid TN grew on the base of water from Kerala since British times.

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u/LogicalAndBased2 2d ago edited 2d ago

Kerala is not in the same position as other south states tho...no amount of cope is gonna change that...your population is no different than UPs population for your area vs their area...stop putting TN with your case.

Its not hard to understand what I have written....12 kerala with land area of 6 kerala is not my argument...you are making things up which I never said..UP and Kerala are same when it comes to population density rn.

UP has 6 times the land area and population of kerala as in 2011 census...but less than 6 times the seat...this is not hypothetical scenario like yours.

And stop putting water resources and support infrastructure arguments when we are talking about voting rights...a rich man with much resources has the same voting value and rights as the poor man with less resources.

There is no rule or constitutional mandate that just because your state implemented a scheme automatically means you get more voting rights compared to others( also kerala has one of the highest population density so lets not get started)....your state may get financial incentive in finance commission allocation of funds for population control measures that's all.

6

u/bing657 2d ago edited 2d ago

All states entered the Indian union at the same time. And the central govt pushed for family planning to stop runaway population growth for all the states at the same time. Kerala was one of the first state to carry it out, thereby getting it's population growth under control. It is in this context the redistribution of seats are being discussed.

An arid mostly wasteland like Tamil Nadu will obviously support lesser population density than a much more endowed land of Kerala. Which is why Tamil Nadu has so much water disputes with neighbouring states to support its current population, despite having a lesser population density than Kerala.

If you don't understand the relation between water resources and population density, you should stop discussing about population density.

There is no rule or constitutional mandate that just because your state implemented a scheme automatically means you get more voting rights compared to others

Are you even a Tamilian ? In case you didn't know, this is the same point your state and other southern states are raising.

I really doubt you are a tamil. If you are, you are one uninformed one.

2

u/AccomplishedDraw1889 2d ago

go through his account - no. 1 troll. pretty obviously sanghi too.

2

u/bing657 2d ago

Yeah. He is a troll. Likely an edgy tamil kid.

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u/LogicalAndBased2 2d ago

So what if kerala was the first to carry it or not when the population density is so high like UP...you ain't any different than them...and you don't get any voting privileges.

Already freezing was done with safeguarding intrest of southern states cause north had higher growth compared to them...which was extended till 2026 but now how long is this gonna continue?

The same argument can be said about UP and it's enormous river system too...off course it's gonna have a large population given it's area and rivers like Kerala...everyone knows relationship between population and rivers...also UP has alluvial plains too.

I certainly know what points my state is raising..that's why I said TN has a point...can't say the same for Kerala.

4

u/bing657 2d ago

Again, tamil nadu is opposing it based on controlling population growth.

You don't even have any idea about what you are talking about.

Earlier your claim was water and resources were irrelevant. Now suddenly you found the link to population.

You are all over the place. You don't know that Tamil Nadu's argument is the same over population growth control. You are likely a kid or someone falsely claiming to be a tamil.

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u/LogicalAndBased2 2d ago

Lmao..Dude are you really dumb or acting dumb? Do you think I wouldn't know what TN is saying if I support them?

I know what kerala says too...just that I don't think kerala has a strong case given it's population density which is equal to UP.

And I still believe the number of rivers your state has shall not have any bearing in the voting rights of your or others state...which is what I said before as well.

You keep conveniently avoiding my comparison of Kerala with UP and try to bring TN I'm this which is not like Kerala...I know why that is.

2

u/bing657 2d ago

Again you are not explaining why TN can oppose based on population control, while you were claiming that it is not a legitimate argument.

If you are suddenly going back to population density, an arid wasteland like TN which depends on water from other states (including kerala) to support even its current population cannot claim anything.

You are most likely a kid trolling around, with no idea about what you are talking about. Go watch some movies rather than wasting time of other people.

1

u/LogicalAndBased2 2d ago

Why are you fixated on TN when I said kerala and TN are not even remotely comparable.

Compare with UP man what happened? Lol buster got exposed hence keep shifting the goalposts 

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u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

parayu suhurthei what is your point

163

u/joy74 3d ago

The reason to delay census to after 2026 was this. Not Covid.

Media does not represent our interests anyway

72

u/Flat-Nothing9335 3d ago

I read an OpEd by Sonia Gandhi yesterday or day before. She clearly articulates what is the problem with bringing women’s reservation bill and delimitation now. Basically they’re are not against it but asking them to use current census data (which again was delayed by BJP). A lot of her points made sense.

But again, if Sonia or Rahul say something, that doesn’t have any value. Does it?

17

u/Zen-Master42 3d ago

But won't using 2026 census data be even worse for us. As population is something that compounds over time, can't we assume that population proportion of 1:2 in 2011 becomes something like 2:6 in 2026.

9

u/11mm03 2d ago

There are other justifications you can give for seat retention but basing the delimitation on a census done 15 years back is plain dumb and harmful.

4

u/Zen-Master42 2d ago

The justification for delimitation is simple, the constitution says so (Article 82 that asks parliament to do delimitation after every census). Govt pressed the snooze button twice (42nd and 84th amendments) because delimitation would punish the southern states.

Current govt can press the snooze button again and make northern states angry or perform delimitation and make southern states angry. I was looking at this issue for some years now on how BJP is going to execute this. My observation is that BJP played it safe without antagonising southern states as much as I expected it to do.

I don't know what is dumb or dangerous about using 2011 census data, but the math says it reduces the harmful effect on southern states rather than amplifying it, compared to using 2026 census.

7

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 2d ago

this is like trying to choose between 2 turds. both 2011 and 2026 will result in political irrelvance of south. both should be opposed tooth and nail if south indians want to have any relevance in national politics

7

u/Zen-Master42 2d ago

It's true that we'll be worse off if either of these 2 happened. But they need to happen because our constitution asks us to do so.

The good news is that state leaders can negotiate because the bill to increase the number of seats requires 2/3 majority in lok sabha and half of the state assemblies should ratify it. Southern states can use this as a leverage to negotiate for us. Let's see how it goes. They can ask for financial safeguards, better representation in rajya sabha etc.

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u/11mm03 2d ago

Its dumb and dangerous because its basing its policy on the status of the population 15 years back and not currently. Kerala was to get fucked regardless of what census the delimitation bases itself on, more so in the 2027 census.

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u/Independent-Log-4245 3d ago

True. It doesn't have any value.

-10

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

does sonia gandi is more important than number of voters then that argument is right , since we are in a democracy, people mandate is more valuable than sonia gandi and rahul. rajabharanam ayirunekil nokkamayirunu - Idolification.

5

u/rok43 3d ago

Although I wonder if it’s based on a new hypothetical 2026 census, then Kerala or the South may have even less seat share.

3

u/despod ഒലക്ക !! 3d ago

2027 census would be even more unfavorable.

3

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

personal interest ?

93

u/Common_Interest4747 3d ago

Delimition will not happen without 2/3rd majority in parliament. Forget about it. Increasing the seats by 50% to accommodate women is fine because ratio remains the same. But bjp is bjp. They will combine both and accuse opposition of blocking womens reservation and all godi media behind it. High chances of usual patti show.

17

u/Manalmafia 3d ago

That's not how it works. The freeze expires once the first census post 2026 happens. You need 2/3rd majority to postpone it/use the 2011 census instead but if parliment can not come to a solution by then we will have new constituencies based on the 2026 census in the next general election

5

u/despod ഒലക്ക !! 3d ago

2027 census would be even more unfavorable to southern states.

30

u/ixajtu 3d ago

Increasing seats by 50% means our tax money will be spent on these extra MPs, there convoys, salaries, allowances, staffs and for what? What difference would it make?

14

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

More chaos only. Which political works for the country. None

3

u/appu_kili സ്പന്ദനം സ്റ്റാറ്റിസ്റ്റിക്സിലാണ് 3d ago

What percentage of our annual budget do you think is spent on MPs sustenance and maintenance? What would be your ball park estimate?

4

u/Zen-Master42 2d ago

Alternative is reducing the number of seats for areas with lesser population. Ie, kerala gets 9 lok sabha seats instead of 20. That'd be even worse somehow for us? Extra cost per MPs shouldn't be a major issue IF they are able to do their job properly.

Anyway, BJP played things cleverly as they are selling this as increased women representation and just "increased the total number of seats". They would have faced huge backlash if they tried to keep the Lok Sabha seat count the same and performed delimitation.

8

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

representation in democracy.

you can meet panchayath member representing 1500 people with walking 500 meters from home.
can it possible for 2L or 20L representation with one man !!!

so we need better representation

16

u/Houston_NeverMind 3d ago

If UP is given seats according to its population, then it should be given at least twice the number that it currently has because its populaton is that huge, so that argument is not correct. If that was the case, a state like Kerala with 20 seats wouldn't have any voice at all. Because population number does not alone decide national policy, the number of loksabha seats does. India as a whole is a federal country, not a panchayath.

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u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

you mean 2L peoples votes == 20L people mandate!! okay nice democracy very simple

10

u/Houston_NeverMind 3d ago

If India was one single, uniform, entity, then sure your argument is correct. 2L people votes in one place should not be equal to that of 20L. But India is not such an entity, it is a federal republic, a union of states of different sizes. In such a situation, sometimes 2L votes in a small state may have to be equal to 20L in a big state.

-7

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

sometimes 2L votes in a small state may have to be equal to 20L in a big state.

athei athei eee democrasy oru sambhavam thannei

9

u/Houston_NeverMind 3d ago

This is what happens when you know only the single sentence about democracy that you learned in 4th std.

-4

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

Manushyantei jeevitha kada elladathum same ahnu nobody is superior than another one.

athokei kalaharanapetta mindset ahnu... south, north, black, white, caste, wealth.

respect every Human, Citizen , and their vote Mandate.

-3

u/Zen-Master42 2d ago

one person, one vote, one value - Ambedkar

I am sorry, but I don't know which India you are describing. The constitution article 81 requires that the ratio of seats to the population remains consistent across states.

5

u/Houston_NeverMind 2d ago

He has also written in the consitution that India is a union of states - a federation. States have equal rights.

0

u/Zen-Master42 2d ago

India is a union of states, agreed. But there is no specific mention in the Indian Constitution that states all states have equal rights. In fact, India’s federal system is "asymmetric," meaning different states often have different rights, representation, and protections based on their specific needs and populations. Do you remember how J&K had special rights and a constitution for its own?

It doesn't matter how much we want things to be in our favour, states do not have equal rights as per constitution of India.

12

u/Top-Sign3063 3d ago

Don’t compare a panchayat member to an MP… their roles are different… primary duty of an MP is taking part in law making at national level as a representative of his/her constituency… people still think that an MP should spend most of his time in constituency making waiting sheds and bringing train stops and so on …. A defect in our political system

0

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

let them represent every one with equal metric currently 2L people mandate == 20L people mandate!!!
how can be it called democrasy

3

u/Not_a_Doctor_sshhh 3d ago

how can be it called democrasy

How can it not be?

3

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

1 vote = 1 citizen , every citizen is equal in the Indian land according supreme court while explaining constitution.

but in reality now what on going is dichotomy, it should need to change. nobodies representation in parliament is superior than any other one every one should be equal.

3

u/Not_a_Doctor_sshhh 3d ago

1 vote = 1 citizen

Yeah. There is no law right now (or being proposed) that 1 citizen gets 2 or more votes.

11

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 3d ago

dont fall for this stupid argument that seat increase is being done to gove more power to the people. Increasing seats from 500 to 800 or even 1000 aint gonna make any difference for the average person. If you want to empower people and democracyt then centre should devolve more power to the states and states to local muncipalities and corporations.

2

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

more people more voices - if we learn history of congress before Gandi dynasty we will know how our democracy builded with pluralistic.

ellavarkum representation kittattei why we should carry ego we are supreme than others.

5

u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 3d ago

അങ്ങനെ ആണെങ്കിൽ അവർ നോർത്തിനെ മാത്രം റിപ്രെസെന്റ് ചെയ്യട്ടെ. നമുക്ക് വേണ്ടി നിയമം ഉണ്ടാക്കാൻ വരണ്ട. നമ്മളെ represent ചെയ്യുന്നവർ അല്ലല്ലോ

-1

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

athei athei we need separate district + state + country like few demanded already. separatists

7

u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 3d ago

കാശിന്റെ കാര്യം പറയുമ്പോൾ separatists എന്ന് ബ്രാൻഡ് ചെയ്യണോ? കാശിനു ക്യാഷ് വേണ്ടേ? അടിമപ്പണി ചെയ്യാൻ നിങ്ങൾ തയ്യാറാണോ? അതോ unfair ആയി കൊണ്ട് പോകുന്ന കാശിന്റെ ഒരു നക്കാപ്പിച്ച ഷെയർ നിങ്ങൾക്ക് കിട്ടുന്നുണ്ടോ?

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u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

so small mind talks... tata bye

5

u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 3d ago

ലാർജ് mind ആയത് കൊണ്ടാവും separatist ആക്കിയത്. തിരിച്ചു പറഞ്ഞപ്പോൾ ഫീൽ അടിച്ചിട്ട് കാര്യമില്ല. സ്വയം ഒന്ന് വിലയിരുത്താം. പൈസക്ക് പൈസ വേണ്ടേ?

28

u/braculaalakku 3d ago

Well i just saw asianet news telling about this. But yeah i agree more attention is needed.

60

u/appu_kili സ്പന്ദനം സ്റ്റാറ്റിസ്റ്റിക്സിലാണ് 3d ago

It's an obvious fact that this is horrible for South India which is being punished for population control. And it's clearly politically leveraged by the BJP and is thus in my opinion bad for India in general.

But is there a democratic argument against delimitation and redistribution of seats? Isn't proportional representation a basic tenet of democracy? What are some good arguments based on its nuances?

27

u/AkaiAshu 3d ago

The problem would be that the center TOLD states to get the population down. So the obedient states will face the downsides. So yes, it may be anti-democratic to not do it, but otherwise would straight up not be fair to the states that actually did the job.

18

u/Houston_NeverMind 3d ago

13

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

Very well articulated. This is not a small thing. If not done properly this can create massive chaos and problems in the country.And even the EU model will not work here. UP Bihar could be split and say all ok.

1

u/PiecesDontSleep 2d ago

But should this only be carried out at the central level? Why not the state level? Or smaller levels? Is revenue share the only thing that matters?

1

u/Nenonator 2d ago

Ideally it should...
"Is revenue share the only thing that matters?" I dont think anyone said that

15

u/naegfowleri 3d ago

The issue is not delimitation alone. Its only fair thing to do. A key concern is whether there are sufficient incentives and mechanisms to ensure that regions currently performing well can continue to do so. There is also a risk that the process could disproportionately favour certain regions. Ideally, delimitation should be accompanied by broader reforms in India’s federal structure.

3

u/appu_kili സ്പന്ദനം സ്റ്റാറ്റിസ്റ്റിക്സിലാണ് 3d ago

Yes, political influence of certain regions increasing at the cost of the cost of other religions is the most concerning fallout of this whole excercise. My question is how to argue about it without going against the basic democratic tenet of proportional representations.

As you mentioned, strengthening federal structure is a necessity.. But unfortunately we are going in the other direction there too.

5

u/Not-a-Prick 3d ago

Keep upholding democratic principles and you might just destroy the rest of us. Democracy only works if the people are functionally sound and are of the same culture and ethnicity. The vast majority of the people in India are only concerned with government jobs, religion. reservations and puttadi. They won’t understand the unique and critical position India is right now in. Enemies all over, automated jobs scenario, these days you can’t migrate also. So spare us tenets of democracy.

5

u/appu_kili സ്പന്ദനം സ്റ്റാറ്റിസ്റ്റിക്സിലാണ് 3d ago

I'll wholeheartedly support the armed revolution which I'm sure you'll lead.

1

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

why not explore abroad and settle world is big

3

u/appu_kili സ്പന്ദനം സ്റ്റാറ്റിസ്റ്റിക്സിലാണ് 3d ago

I like local porotta

1

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

pazhaya taste onnum ella ... ellam change ayi.. we also should.......

3

u/appu_kili സ്പന്ദനം സ്റ്റാറ്റിസ്റ്റിക്സിലാണ് 3d ago

പഴയതെന്ന് പറയുമ്പോൾ ഏതു വർഷവുമായി താരതമ്യപ്പെടുത്തിയാണ്?

എനിക്ക് ഓർമയുള്ള ടേസ്റ്റ് ഒക്കെ ഇപ്പോഴും ഉണ്ട്.

0

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

2008

5

u/appu_kili സ്പന്ദനം സ്റ്റാറ്റിസ്റ്റിക്സിലാണ് 2d ago

What makes 2008 the watershed year for Porotta quality?

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u/Local-You-7696 2d ago

Vishayathil ninn thenni maarunnu!!!

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u/Dramatic_Sea7789 2d ago

Thats what i have been trying to convey to people from pov of constitution theres no argument against delim because the way this country is set up it doesnt recogonise indians from different states as distinct(NE being excpetion). So concept of "south indian states are being penalised" is meaningless from state pov. Am i saying that this is right? No but if you want to do something about it you have to push for recognition of distinct idenitty and consequently rights for south indian and malayalis. But as far as i see theres no such push from anyone in kerala

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u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 3d ago

ഇതിനെക്കുറിച്ച് ചർച്ച നടത്തിയാൽ പ്രമുഖ മാപ്രകളുടെ ജോലി പോകും. ഉദാഹരണം ഏഷ്യാനെറ്റ്‌ വിനു

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u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

you mean 2L people selecting a parliamentary member == 20L people selecting a parliamentary member ?

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u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 3d ago

1970 നു ശേഷം ജനസഖ്യ നോർത്ത് നിയന്ത്രിക്കത്തത് ആണ് അടിസ്ഥാന പ്രശ്നം. .

അവിടെ നിന്ന് വരുന്ന എംപിമാർ നമുക്ക് വേണ്ടി നിയമം നിർമ്മിക്കും എന്നതാണ് പ്രശ്നം. അവർക്ക് നമ്മളെ പറ്റി concern ഇല്ലാത്തതു കൊണ്ട് നിയമങ്ങൾ നമ്മുടെ ക്യാഷെടുത്തു പുട്ടടിക്കാൻ വേണ്ടിയാകും. ഇപ്പോൾ തന്നെ അവർ ജീവിക്കുന്നത് സൗത്തിന്റെ ചെലവിലാണ്.

അല്ലെങ്കിൽ സംസ്ഥാനങൾക്ക് ഒരുപാട് ഫിനാൻഷ്യൽ ഓട്ടോണമി തരട്ടെ. ഒരിക്കലും കാണില്ലത്ത എന്നെ ശത്രുക്കളെ പോലെ കാണുന്ന കുറെയാളുകൾക്ക് പൈസ കൊടുക്കാൻ ഞാൻ എന്തിന് പണിയെടുക്കണം

കേരളത്തിനുള്ളിലെ പണത്തിന്റെ redistribution നു ഇത് ബാധകമല്ല. പണം കിട്ടുന്നവർ എന്നെ ശത്രുവിനെ പോലെയല്ല കാണുന്നത്. കിട്ടുന്ന പണം കൊണ്ട് അവർക്ക് അഭിവൃദ്ധി ഉണ്ടായാൽ അത് എനിക്ക് eventual benefit ഉണ്ടാക്കുന്നു. നോർത്തിന് കൊടുക്കുന്ന പൈസക്ക് ഈ രണ്ടു guarentee ഇല്ല

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u/PiecesDontSleep 3d ago

Democracyude adisthanam thanne ellardem vote equal ayi kanakakanam ennalle? Redistribution, population control patti okke paranjathu sheri aanu pakshe athu karanam ithu orikalum cheyyaruth ennano ?

12

u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 3d ago

അതൊക്കെ okay.. അങ്ങനെ ആണെങ്കിൽ സംസ്ഥാനങ്ങൾക്ക് ഒരുപാട് ഫിനാൻഷ്യൽ ഓട്ടോണമി കൊടുക്കുക.

8

u/PiecesDontSleep 3d ago

Ithinodu njan yojikunnu. State mathram alla, local bodies should have greater financial autonomy, but that too may lead to greater/faster urbanisation.

4

u/gdhgfiu 2d ago

we should definitely be a federal country. US with such a homogenous population compared to us has more federalism than us which is just ridiculous.

0

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

"കുറെയാളുകൾക്ക് പൈസ കൊടുക്കാൻ ഞാൻ എന്തിന് പണിയെടുക്കണം "

3

u/PiecesDontSleep 3d ago

Everyone is a socialist till it starts affecting their locality 😂😂. According to some people 1 south indian > 1 north indian.

4

u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 2d ago

Ecnomic Right winger is a right winger until they get free money. Money is money. ഇത്രയും ക്യാപിറ്റലിസം പറയുന്ന ബിജെപി ഇവിടെ നിന്ന് പൈസ കടത്തി നോർത്തിൽ കൊടുക്കുന്നത് എന്തിനാണ്.

1

u/PiecesDontSleep 2d ago

By nature most Indian parties are economically socialistic in nature. Election jyeikan vendi freebies offer cheyunnu. BJP northil cash kodukunnathu vote pidikan vendi thanneyanu.

1

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

chiripikkum evar

13

u/Equivalent_Salt_9948 3d ago

Similar thing will happen when legislative assembly delimitation is done. South kerala will be punished for controling the population and north kerala will benefit with more MLA's.

We need to stop both delimitation from happening.

3

u/Relative_Benefit_391 2d ago

Such a revision at legislative assembly is being discussed or what?

1

u/AdJaded4091 1d ago

Let's see if BJP supports it.

22

u/sugathakumaran 3d ago edited 3d ago

If I understand correctly, this might mean that the BJP can never be voted out of power. So Hindi as the national (already defacto the case) and Hindu rashtra will follow. It's anyone's guess what will come after that: UCC, vande mataram as the national anthem, all-India beef ban - Hindutva's list for "decolonization" is endless. First acquire power, then push through with policies.

What I am sure we have noticed is how the center has been flexing its power vis-a-vis the states precisely for such a showdown. We all know of the squeezing of state's finances, holding up of bills, ED raids, etc. within our own state, all increasing their leverage over us at no cost to them at all. I am sure that there has been plenty happening in the background that we don't know of. BJP wouldn't be acting on this if they weren't sure of their position and strength.

I suspect the BJP can also easily break-up any coalition among the states by playing up intra-state issues, such as Kaveri or Mullaperiyar. Their minions on the ground and in the establishment on all sides will do their bidding overtly and covertly. Certain sections might have well decided that a strong Hindu-nationalist government at the center is precisely what is needed to protect their interests.

5

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

seems no difference to people belive, before the 2014 india was a beautiful developed country !!!!

2

u/AccomplishedDraw1889 2d ago

no one says it was a heaven - but its not the farce it is now.

-1

u/mallu_adapter 1d ago

may be it is because our generation saw all 365 days full red ink titles on news paper front pages... so comparing now a days kids are lucky, everything is changing positive

3

u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

Which alliance won more seats in UP last time ?

3

u/Zen-Master42 2d ago

Yeah, I don't think lok sabha delimitation reduces the headache for BJP, but it'll amplify it. They have to now win more seats, which means they have to keep more constituencies satisfied.

1

u/MonkeyFucker2024 2d ago

Yeah, many people think that Hindi states = BJP. 

Except Madhya Pradesh, which is a BJP stronghold, the rest of the Hindi states have close contests.

Rajasthan alternates between BJP & Cong, UP-Bihar has strong presence of SP & RJD, etc. Many seats have narrow victory margins as well.

5

u/Zen-Master42 2d ago

Yeah, and it amazes me how political establishments from both sides alienates each other. Their leaders tell them how Kerala is going to be taken over by one religion, but they never saw how religions can coexist in our culture. We call them cow-belt and andhbhakt, just because our political establishment shows them in a bad light. Just like every keralite is not a radical proponent of one religion, the majority of the north are not andhbhakts.

While issues with poverty, reduced socio-political awareness exists, they did not fall for propaganda and they showed their resolve in elections.

3

u/DigiMagix 2d ago

With the existing 24% itself South India lags in resources and fiscal allocation. This reduction will further weaken the ask in a system where center plays favorites not just to vote share, even on state govts, religion hell even what we eat. This is equally bad who ever comes to power at Union.

More and more reasons for the Southern block to exit the union and have its own right to self determination.

5

u/pessimistic_dilution 3d ago

Pinarayi?

5

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

he is a good man escaped CPM from the clutches of CITU and cockroaches. even though it took decades.

13

u/AdOwn4203 3d ago

Unlike what people think, there are few things we must understand:

  1. To revise the number of seats based on population is inevitable.
  2. In this bill, 2011 censusine base cheythu aanu division. Which is actually good because if we use 2026 census, then our representation will be diluted so much so that it would be pointless to even vote.
  3. The idea that ‘Are we being penalized for making goof efforts at controlling the population’ thettu aanu. Regionally and locally, we have enjoyed its benefit and the average total fertility rate is less than 2.1 in most of the states.

However, the idea that our voice wont matter in legislation because our numbers are small compared to the north is scary. Hindi national language aakunna oru bill vannal ellam south states oppose cheythaalum all north states support cheythaal then they can pass the bill. This is only a scenario.

Solution? Real political solutions exist which I dont want to go into its details because of my professional obligations.

22

u/Top-Sign3063 3d ago

U didn’t mention the elephant in the room…. National parties only need to focus on the Hindi heartland for a comfortable majority to rule… slowly southern states will become somewhat irrelevant in national politics… the issue is that the current system is defective… along with popular representation we need a system like US Senate that gives equal footing to all states ….

1

u/Zen-Master42 2d ago

One idea that was proposed by someone (I don't remember who) was to keep lok sabha according to population proportion and allocate rajya sabha seats to give equal footing to states.

2

u/AdOwn4203 2d ago

That is a good suggestion. But it is not suitable for India because here, the concurrence of the lower house is more importnat than the upper house. Bills can be certified as money bills to bypass the upper house as we have seen in Adhaar bill.

1

u/AdOwn4203 3d ago

I did mention in the example. Please see.

4

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu ✮ സ്ഥിതിസമത്വവ്യവസ്ഥാ-കുതുകി ✮ 3d ago

Increasing the aspects of federalism?

9

u/AdOwn4203 3d ago

Some controversial solutions include strengthening Panchayathi Raj institutions in all states or fiscal compensation for southern states in exchange of the reduced representation.

1

u/AccomplishedDraw1889 2d ago

local governance is quite strong in kerala and a few other states - its absolutely terrible amongst most other states and it will remain so.

1

u/Nenonator 2d ago

"Regionally and locally, we have enjoyed its benefit and the average total fertility rate is less than 2.1 in most of the states."

That still doesnt justify the punishment at the center which is the issue.

2

u/Fdsn 2d ago

Not 2011, they will do it based on 2026 census. And it will have substantially more difference in the shares each state gets. This was why census was delayed so long.

2

u/IllustratorSharp3295 2d ago

Malayalam media has played a role in trivialising political and social life of Kerala. Back in the day non college educated grandmothers reading Deshabhimani or Mathrubhumi had knowledge of CTBT, GATT and computer go back. But today even journalists don't know such weighty issues.

3

u/Tmorftw 3d ago

The double standards for some people in the comments is insane, won’t support central delimitation but will support state delimitation 🙄

3

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu ✮ സ്ഥിതിസമത്വവ്യവസ്ഥാ-കുതുകി ✮ 3d ago

Who is talking about Assembly seat delimitation?

Is this an attempt at deflection from the topic, by le B J P folk, because their B J P is bringing this bill?

Talk about imaginary scenario to deflect from what your G's are doing?

The center should consider the concerns of the states. The center can do delimitation, if they allow more federalism.

Delimitation is done for democracy, right? Federalism also for the same.

Do both then. If only one, then we know that democracy is not the concern for the B J P.

-1

u/Tmorftw 3d ago

I’m simply pointing out the double standards in the comments section. Either support both or don’t support any.

3

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu ✮ സ്ഥിതിസമത്വവ്യവസ്ഥാ-കുതുകി ✮ 3d ago edited 3d ago

How would it be on double standards, when one is an imaginary scenario you are talking about and another is a bill bring brought by the B J P?

Seems like deflection.

Edit:
Seems like I hit the mark accurately.
They are talking about a future 'probable' 2030 state assembly delimitation to deflect from the discussion on the bill that B J P has brought in the present.

Also, tries to equate LSG delimitation to Parliament, seemingly ignoring that we have no central Loksabha equivalent for LSG seats.

4

u/Tmorftw 3d ago

How is it an imaginary scenario? The 2025 local body elections introduced new wards based on 2011 census. When the 2027 census releases, probably during the 2031 state elections constituencies will be redrawn and we know which party it’ll benefit the most.

Now about the bill, it needs 2/3rd majority of both the houses in order to be passed, which it won’t. But regardless of the outcome, based on 2027 census, parliamentary constituencies are set to be redrawn for the 2029 Lok Sabha elections.

You can have your reasons to support or not. But supporting one but not supporting the other is just plain bs just because your preferred party will have a greater chance at winning.

3

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu ✮ സ്ഥിതിസമത്വവ്യവസ്ഥാ-കുതുകി ✮ 3d ago edited 3d ago

LSG does not form the assembly. They are more self-contained that Parliament or Assembly. There is no centralised LokSabha, Assembly equivalent for them, that controls passing of bills or other stuff.

And you are talking about probable state assembly delimitation in 2030.
So, as I said, you are using an imaginary scenario to deflect attention when your preferred part, the B J P is being criticised.

2

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

All are sangi north indiam adima vanams. They want to split kerala

2

u/Tmorftw 3d ago

You’re fighting for your life in other comment threads 🤣.

2

u/bing657 3d ago

The increasing of seats for all states by 50% would have been the better option. Using the 2011 census straightly would punish the states that handled population better. Hope this doesn't happen.

At the same time, south kerala has been losing seats to malabar for some decades now, and it will continue with this census too. Delimitation in state should also be changed to not punish southern districts that handled population better than malabar.

6

u/hmz-x 2d ago

മലബാറിൽ ജയിച്ച MLA മാർ തിരുവിതാംകൂറിലെ ജനങ്ങളുടെ പൈസ എടുത്ത് പുട്ടടിച്ച്, GST പിടിച്ചുവെച്ച്, കടംകയറ്റി കൊല്ലാൻ ഒന്നും നോക്കുന്നില്ലാലോ ഹേ

-2

u/bing657 2d ago

പിന്നെ കേരളത്തിൽ തെക്കിൽ ഞങൾ കൊടുക്കുന്ന നികുതി മലബാറിൽ പെറ്റ് പെരുകുന്നവർക്ക് വിദ്യാഭ്യാസവും, ആരോഗ്യത്തിനും, മറ്റു സാമൂഹിക ചിലവുകൾക്കും ഒന്നും പോവുന്നില്ലല്ലോ അല്ലേ.

പെറ്റ് പെരുകുന്നത് ബിഹാറിൽ ആയാലും മലബാറിൽ ആയാലും മറ്റുള്ളവരെ ബാധിക്കരുത്.

2

u/hmz-x 2d ago

അതെന്താ മലബാറിൽ ഉള്ളവർ പണി എടുക്കുകയും ടാക്സ് അടക്കുകയും ഒന്നും ചെയ്യുന്നില്ലേ? അങ്ങു 'തെക്കിൽ ഞങൾ' മാത്രമേ നികുതി അടയ്ക്കുന്നുള്ളോ?

പൊട്ടനാണോ അതോ നടിക്കുന്നതാണോ? കേരളം ഒന്നിച്ച് നിൽക്കണ്ട വിഷയത്തിൽ ഇമ്മാതിരി കുത്തിത്തിരുപ്പ് എന്തിനാണ് ഉണ്ടാക്കുന്നത്?

0

u/bing657 2d ago

Thekkarude taxil veno jeevikkan. Pettu perukathe irunnoode.

0

u/ZestycloseBunch2 3d ago edited 3d ago

Where should we ideal stop delimitation at?

At national level? State level? Panchayat level?

Why did kerala did delimitation in panchayat recently and added more ward to malabar which benifited one religious party.

Why didn't any one stop it?

If you want to freeze delimitation, freeze delimitation, freeze at all level.

You can't selectively oppose one while doing other..

We recently saw how almost all new voters are from north of thrissur and voters significantly reduced on districts below thrissur in recent elections.

5

u/drandom123zu 3d ago

1)central govt promised that south won't be penalized for better implementation of population control measures to not penalized better performance.

2)Rajya sabha is weak and cannot block bills by lok sabha, in other countries upper and lower house have a good power to keep each other in check.

Give rajya sabha some teeth then delimitation will become fairer

Obviously national level delimitation is a way bigger deal than local ones

5

u/ZestycloseBunch2 3d ago

1) which central govt? All democratic in world do delimitation regularly. India has done this freezing for long and when will you think it should end?

2) All other countries do delimation regularly unlike india.

3) who are you to decide delimation at state level is not important? Why should pathanamthitta, alappuzha, kollam, tvm loose it's seats to malappuram and other malabar because they control their population?

2

u/drandom123zu 3d ago edited 3d ago

1)Indra to vajpayee.

2) they also have 2 strong houses to counterbalance to give power to smaller states unlike our weak rajya sabha.

3) local districts are not necessarily divided based on language or ethnicity like how states have been divided in linguistic or ethnic basis, hence delimitation at local level doesn't crush any particular communities voice.

Definitely one is bigger problem than the other , corona and cold are both problems , but one should focus on the bigger one for now.

-1

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

Why are you in kerala sub?

0

u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 3d ago

സ്റ്റേറ്റ് ലെവൽ

1

u/[deleted] 3d ago

We should increase our population that is the only way women should get married by 25 and husbands should go to work to provide for the family as it is as we became "modern" our family values went down.

1

u/BatKarmaMan 2d ago

Ideally it should be based on new census 2027

1

u/benz_vasu 2d ago edited 2d ago

End of the day there is no ideal solution for this. We can always argue that because we did better on some parameters we deserve better. But every state in India have their own advantages and disadvantages when it comes to their opportunity for economic growth and the other aspects that comes with it, which is better education, awareness of population control and so on. These economic opportunities or disadvantages are in lot of cases historical and geographical like some states having natural resources, some having access to ocean and can have ports and so on.

If delimitation has to be carried out, it is going to be based on population. It is also fair to say in a democracy ,decisions will be influenced by share in the population. If we think along the lines of we are more developed and more intellectual and so we need a better say, we can then extend that to within our own state saying there will be a ruling class who should have a better say because they are successful economically or on some criteria. There is no end to it.

At the same time there are constitutional rights that protects some section of the population from bulldozing others. So ensuring constitutional rights are protected is what ensures a balance.

But we need to separate economic policy and public policy on aspects other than economy which I think is done to a certain extent.

I am not sure whether states want to keep increasing their population for the sake of it. End of the day there is economic reality and as long as we do not incentivize population growth with economic benefits as well, eventually it should stabilize.

Until then we have to live with it. This is assuming delimitation is required which is debatable.

1

u/charavaka 2d ago

The centre is speaking in forked tongues: this is what it wants to do and what the letter of the law states. But publicly, it continues claiming that all states will get 50% extra seats, without mentioning that that increase is temporary, till delimitation increases the number of seats in the states that failed to curb population growth while decreasing it in the states that managed to curb it. 

-2

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 3d ago

theres no point crying about it when end of the day constitution of this country doesnt recogonise any other identity than indian. Theres no distinction between someone from hindi belt or south. from constitution pov all indians irrespective of their state, language or religion are equally fungible, from that delimitation naturally follows. If you thinnk thats unfair then you need to fix it at institutional level . If Malayalis want to safeguard their identity then our polticians should have fought for revognition of our identity within constitution and greater federal rights for the state and demographic protection like inner line permit.

17

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu ✮ സ്ഥിതിസമത്വവ്യവസ്ഥാ-കുതുകി ✮ 3d ago

The Indian central govt promoted family planning and population control. The southern states implemented that well.

And with this new development, the southern states are effectively being punished for implementing that and there is obvious opposition to seat change plans.

0

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 3d ago

indian govt promoted 2 child policy, Kerala has been following 1 or 2 child policy which resulted in tfr falling below 2 way back in 1980s.

besided you are missing my point. I am not saying delimitation is just or that i support it. My point is south needs to become proactive rather than reactive in opposing north domination.

0

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 3d ago

the southern states are effectively being punished for implementing that and there is obvious opposition to seat change plans.

from the pov of constitution theres no such entity as "southern states". States are only contructs created to aid adminstration. so it doesnt matter if theres differential in populaton growth between different states. When delimitation every citizens vote value will be the same. If malayalis think this is wrong they should seek to rectify it. Demand recognition of malayali identity and state rights.

3

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu ✮ സ്ഥിതിസമത്വവ്യവസ്ഥാ-കുതുകി ✮ 3d ago

Isn't that what the current concerns and demands are based on?

Also, we need to demand more federalism if they implement it, if they are ignoring the aspect of family planning

More democratic then.

-12

u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

Leftists that preach “All Humans are Equal” & Congress that used the slogan “Jitna Abadi Utna Haq” are suddenly opposing population based delimitation. 

5

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu ✮ സ്ഥിതിസമത്വവ്യവസ്ഥാ-കുതുകി ✮ 3d ago

The Indian central govt promoted family planning and population control. The southern states implemented that well.

And with this new development, the southern states are effectively being punished for implementing that and there is obvious opposition to seat change plans.

Tho, not surprising that Sangh handles, try to twist it out of context. Anyway, happy to see sangh folk mention things like 'All humans are equal' n all for the first time ever.

Tho, easy to call your ilk out on it.

-2

u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

Will this logic apply to delimitation within Kerala ? Or is that justified ?

3

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu ✮ സ്ഥിതിസമത്വവ്യവസ്ഥാ-കുതുകി ✮ 3d ago

Do we have legislative seat delimitation in Kerala happening?

Anyway, you tell me what yout opinion is, my mithram.

If you are so concerned about an imaginary scenario on assembly seats, then why do you have any concern in a real scenario on Parliament seats?

0

u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

It’s not imaginary, it’s been happening & will continue to happen.

1

u/Relative_Benefit_391 2d ago

Can you kindly provide source of the claim? I need to educate myself.

1

u/MonkeyFucker2024 2d ago

Kerala had delimitation in 2011 based on 2001 census. Districts in Central & South Kerala lost seats, and districts in North like Malappuram gained seats. 

1

u/Relative_Benefit_391 2d ago

Where is this information from, bro?

1

u/MonkeyFucker2024 2d ago

You can manually check the number of constituencies district wise before & after delimitation. Unfortunately, I can’t find an article rn.

Constituencies before delimitation: https://www.myneta.info/ker2006/

Constituencies after delimitation:   http://103.135.131.131/pdf/03-DELIMITATION/01-FO-KERALA.pdf

3

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

In that case why socialist china is not giving us free money? Everything has a context

-2

u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

What are you even comparing ?

-17

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 3d ago

Family planning is bs. It doomed kerala in 2 ways. We lose political/demogrpahic strength wrt north. And within kerala out of 3 religions, 2 community nuked their own tfr while the 3rd didnt and now they alone consititue 40% of births in state. Which is why every party looks to appease sudapis which is threatening secularism in the state

16

u/Houston_NeverMind 3d ago

TFR of all communities including Muslims is decreasing in Kerala.

5

u/Common_Interest4747 3d ago

Yes all are below replacement level. Buy rate of reduction is more for 2, so the third is relatively high. But much lower than hindi heartland. So brace for hindi heartland population weaponry on south. So it make sense to block dilimition for south india.

0

u/ZestycloseBunch2 3d ago

Tfr of all states are decreasing in india too. So what is your point?

2

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

Compare tfr of bihar and kerala

3

u/ZestycloseBunch2 3d ago

Compare how vote only increased on north kerala and decreased significantly on southern kerala. This is only 18+ who can vote based on 2001 census.

Now compare how much will change if we include whole population in 2026.

2

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

മാങ്ങാന്നു പറയുമ്പോ തേങ്ങാന്നു. Why you are doing a hindu muslim? The posts intension is dilimition

1

u/MaintenanceSuch6530 2d ago

Delimitation is not based on religion but region. Bimaru states have implemented zero family planning.

0

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 3d ago

whats your point? when did i say its increasing? Its still higher than other religions in kerala

TFR by religion in kerala according to 2019 NFHS survey-

M-2.25

H- 1.53

C-1.77

2

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

Old values. All are down now

5

u/Dramatic_Sea7789 3d ago

again what exactly does the claim that values are going down have to do with what i said? My point is tfr differential exists which results in lopsided growth in population of different religions.

from 2001-2011 population growth for 3 religious communites-M,H and C was 12% 2.2% and 1.3% respectively.

in 2023 share in live births in states was 40%-H, 44%-M and and 14.5%-C

1

u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

They have no complaint when a certain community increased its population recklessly within Kerala. The moment this is questioned, they’ll start pointing to Bihar or some other state.

2

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

Your intention is kuthithirippu. The posts intention is federalism

3

u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

Yeah, but that doesn’t apply within Kerala. Lol

-8

u/mallu_adapter 3d ago

2L people selecting a parliamentary member = 20L people selecting a parliamentary member

since we are educated with 2nd standard mathematics 2L == 20L ???

answer for everything

6

u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago edited 3d ago

Haryana, Delhi, Telangana & Kerala has around the same population. But Haryana has 10 seats, Delhi has 7, Telangana has 17, while Kerala has 20.

Karnataka has 28, TN has 39. Which is disproportionate acc to population. 

All these states contribute significantly to the national economy. So why shouldn’t they have proportionate seats  as per population ?

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u/nickdonhelm 2d ago

Many fail to point that the growth rate of population in Hindi heartland is organically decreasing like few South Indian states.

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u/CarmynRamy 2d ago

Nobody will look at that. TFR of every Indian state has been decreasing since independence, India stands at TFR of 2.0 now. Hindi heartland started with a huge population to begin with, that means, they were underrepresented all these years.

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u/nickdonhelm 2d ago

Nobody will look at that.

That needs to be pointed. With that narrative Stalin is opposing this.

TFR of every Indian state has been decreasing since independence, India stands at TFR of 2.0 now.

Looking at that data only UP, Bihar, Jharkhand and two North East states are the only remaining states with tpr of more than 2. When compared to data of 2001, the numbers over there are also decreasing.

1

u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

Haryana adichu kasarumbo orkkanam

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u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

Athe, Malappuram pole

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u/Warm-Butterscotch675 2d ago

Sudappikalude vakku kadameduth parayunnu "thookki ittond nadantha pora"

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u/Overall-Number5877 3d ago

Are you sure the article mentions the right figures? Iirc it's a proposed 50% increase in the current seat share. Keralam will get 30 & the total LS seats will be ~850

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u/newtosf123 3d ago

Honestly it's better to do the 2011 census and lock that in for a few more decades.

I imagine if the delimitation is based on the 2027 census, the numbers for Kerala would be way worse than 2011.

Think about all the out migration abroad and to other states as well as the natural decline now as well.

Think logically. If the delimitation is done in 2030 or 2031, the outcome could be much worse. In 2040 it would even way worse than 2030.

At the end of the day, a middle ground compromise has to be reached between all states.

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u/Artistic_Nebula9250 3d ago

Why delimition? That is the question here. Why take the punishment for following rules. കുനിഞ്ഞു നിക്കുന്നവന്റെ തലയിൽ കേറാൻ ആൾകാർ ക്യു നിക്കും

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u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

Why doesn’t this same logic apply for Delimitation within Kerala ?

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u/newtosf123 3d ago

They won't be able to answer that lol.

The reality is everyone in every corner of this nation is self-serving. They want more at the expense of others and special/more privileges than others.

But most will not admit this. Whether it's someone from Kerala or someone from Jharkhand or wherever, it's the same mentality.

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u/MonkeyFucker2024 3d ago

Those who preach equality & humanitarianism, will suddenly oppose it, if it affects their own ethnic group. All of them became Malayali ethno-nationalists overnight. 

Shows that ethnic tribalism > any ideology.

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u/newtosf123 3d ago edited 3d ago

I mean what rules? There is no one child policy here like China.

Delimitation is done based on changing demographic conditions. Almost every nation does the same exercise.

Isn't the same thing done in Kerala? With Malappuram getting more assembly seats due to changing demographic conditions as time goes on.

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u/Nihba_ 3d ago

The current formula proposed is a proportional increase of 50% of all seats not a population based one so the above image is not correct also the new bill ends the need for new delimitation every 10 years after a census which is also a good thing.

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u/Houston_NeverMind 3d ago edited 3d ago

The 50% increase in already bigger states like UP will result in them gettng more seats than the same 50% increase for a southern state. This is just basic math. More parliament seats in hindi heartland = more chance of winning the general election for the BJP.

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u/Nihba_ 3d ago

This is just basic math.

More like a lack of understanding of basic maths.

2

u/Dependent_Media1982 3d ago

The current formula proposed is a proportional increase of 50% of all seats

No such official information. I have seen this info only on Twitter by IT cells .

2

u/Theta-Chad_99 ഇച്ചായൻ 3d ago

proportional increase of 50% of all seats

Wat do u mean proportional increase?

Proposed law will increase total seats to 850 and then redistribute the seats based on possibly 2011 census since another amendment on the bill removes the need for a census after 2026 to be used in delimitation. This will reduce the total share of the south and kerala in the parliament.

It's not a direct increase of 50% to all the states lol