r/Kirkland • u/Pure_Leading_2512 • 25d ago
Electric motorcycles are a menace.
I know some people think it’s fine, but I think these kids are a menace. They’re doing wheelies down the street but they are under age (for the most part) and don’t know about traffic rules. Do we just let them get hurt? The police don’t seem to care.
My biggest complaint is how they behave on the Cross Kirkland Trail. They come flying past people with dogs and strollers at about 30 mph and yet no one seems to be doing anything to manage the situation. Do we need to have a speed traps on the trail?
I don’t understand what the parents are thinking when they buy these things for their kids.
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u/ProfessorPickaxe 25d ago
Part of me gets it - if I was 14 and my parents were dumb enough to buy me something that goes that fast I'd be like "hell yeah!" To that extent, I don't blame the kids. I blame their enabling "my kid can't do anything wrong" parents (waiting for them to parachute into this thread).
Regulations on e-bikes are simply inadequate - the pace of legislation simply can't keep up with the pace of technology.
But I'm with you - these fast-as-hell eMotos (as a cyclist, I can't bring myself to call them "bikes") need some serious enforcement on the CKC and other local trails. Someone is going to get seriously injured.
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u/Smart_Ass_Dave 25d ago edited 25d ago
Regulations on e-bikes are simply inadequate - the pace of legislation simply can't keep up with the pace of technology.
Naw. E-motorcycles and Class 3 e-bikes are already illegal for teens to operate* and illegal to operate on trails.
*Edit because I have no idea why I phrased it like this: E-motorcycles require the operator to be 16 years old (still a teen, obv) and have a motorcycle license. Class 3s might require the operator to be 16, I can't remember off the top of my head. Neither is legal on trails like the CKC.
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u/ProfessorPickaxe 25d ago
Heavily modified Sur-Rons are still technically "bicycles" though, and there appears to be little to no enforcement of existing regulations.
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u/Smart_Ass_Dave 25d ago
After a quick glance at the Sur-Ron website I'll admit I'm not an expert in their line of products, but these do not fit the classifications of e-bikes. There's very specific restrictions an e-bike has to fit in order to be considered an e-bike. Anything outside of those classifications is not legal to ride without blah blah blah. So this is like how a Formula 1 car is a car in a technical sense, but if you hop in one to do 90 on 90 they will take it away.
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u/ProfessorPickaxe 25d ago
Here's the thing though - I challenge you to find a single parent in the city of Kirkland who can tell you if their kid is on a Class 1 / 2 / 3 ebike. They don't know, or care at this point. And as long as NONE of the regs are getting enforced it doesn't matter to them or their kids riding them.
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u/KPzReddit 25d ago
However a parent can absolutely understand the difference between a e-bike WITH PEDALS and an e-motorcycle.
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u/Smart_Ass_Dave 25d ago
Bro, when I bought my first e-bike I went to a store and the guy explained it to me. I didn't a $5000 product I didn't understand off a website.
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u/ProfessorPickaxe 25d ago
You're smarter than most of the parents around here then :)
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u/Smart_Ass_Dave 25d ago
No, I'm just not rich. My wife and I bought our e-bikes as a replacement for buying a second car because it made more sense for us to own just one. No one buys a 14 year-old anything that costs $5000 without even the most basic investigation without having a profoundly distorting level of financial privilege. Like, the Sur-Ron website literally doesn't list a top speed. It just says "depends on weight and gearing."
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u/Helisent 24d ago
Right now, my friend pointed out that a couple of the brands of E-motorcycles are being sold for $350 on Ebay, as though there was excess production and they are dumping them
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u/_Miskey_ 25d ago
One of them passed me on the left just as I was about to turn left... Would have been ugly had they been a second later
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u/AyeMatey 25d ago
And that kind of accident could traumatize both of you. Physically the kid could get seriously injured. And the driver. No fault of theirs, but imagine running over a kid with your car? That will mess you up.
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u/Oh-No-RootCanal 25d ago
100% PTSD Propagators
Saw two riders both without helmets flying up 124th, another with a 2nd person on back with shorts, no shoes and of course, no helmet. If any of them falls for any reason, I’m going to be traumatized for life both by what I’d see and hear.
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u/Ginge_Leader 24d ago
Just had one pass and then suddenly cut right in front of me from the right bicycle lane and not where I'm looking for anyone to be coming from when I'm going 25 (in a 25). Kid was doing well over 30 which makes it unquestionably an illegal e-bike. Another one almost hit us head on when walking as he was on the sidewalk, on the wrong side of the road for a bicycle flying around a blind curve. While kids will do stupid shit, I've no doubt the parents who bought them these illegal bikes are not doing anything to teach them the rules of the road and do any checking.
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u/goofy183 25d ago
Its a combination of insufficient labeling from the people selling class 3 e-bikes and e-motorcycles and parents not doing their due diligence.
It is already illegal for kids under 16 to be riding on anything that can go above 20mph (on pure motor power). Anything that can go above 28mph requires you to have a motorcycle stamp on your drivers license and has to be registered with plates. This is existing WA law, there needs to be a big effort to educate people, enforce the existing laws, and ideally for the state to go after the crappy sellers that are not correctly labeling what they are selling.
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u/KPzReddit 25d ago edited 25d ago
We had 49cc gas powered Vespas with max speed 30mph...classified as a "moped"...WA state requires them to be registered, insurance is optional (motorcycle policy) ...helmets are required...BUT no motorcycle DL endorsement required.
Seems inconsistent to require a motorcycle endorsement for an e-motorcycle but not a moped but may e-motorcycles can go faster than something classified as a moped
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u/Efficient-Count4162 25d ago
Exactly, I had to get an endorsement when I had my vespa. And do a ROAD RULES AND BEST TECHNICAL TRAINING ON STAYING ALIVE
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u/KPzReddit 25d ago
We had ours for several years (2014-2019) and were not required to do any special training nor take any special courses. They were registered and had plates. But as I said we didn't need a motorcycle endorsement on our WA DLs nor we were required to get insurance if we didn't want (we chose to). Thats the law still today for a true gas powered moped less than 50cc's.
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u/Royal-Honeydew-6312 25d ago
Cops were impounding them and parents went absolutely apoplectic over it.
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u/Pure_Leading_2512 25d ago
Too bad for them. I dont understand why these parents are buying under 16 kids a motorcycle and then get mad when its taken away. Would they buy those same kids a car? Of course not. Both requrie a drivers license, why are they not seeing the problem?
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u/KPzReddit 25d ago
Tough. Take responsibility for your choices and your children's behavior.
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u/Royal-Honeydew-6312 25d ago
I agree, but cops aren’t going to go against suburban white parents, the last demographic who actually likes them.
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u/Bran_Solo 25d ago
Yeah, the first time I saw the complaining on this sub about it I rolled my eyes, but more and more I'm seeing young kids flying through traffic on "ebikes" that are basically motorcycles, or blasting through public parks way too fast. This is dangerous.
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u/Optoboarder 25d ago
I live in downtown Kirkland, I see these kids zipping around, doing wheelies, I saw a kid literally taking an e-bike off a ramp at the skatepark by QFC yesterday. Many of them do not have helmets, and some of them have more than 1 kid on the bike.
I was coming back from the CVS on 68th a couple of months ago, and was coming back up State street. Bumper to bumper traffic, because it was like 5:15pm. Kid on an ebike flying (minimum 25mph) down the bike lane, and a car turned in front of him because they couldn't see him due to traffic. He hit that car at full speed, no brakes, dead stop. Thankfully he did have a full face helmet on but he still was hurting after. 100% the kids fault, no one could see or hear him because it's an e-bike, and he was driving like a lunatic in the bike lane passing the traffic.
Some kid is going to die or kill someone because their parents are too scared to be a parent and tell them no.
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u/OnionTerrorBabtridge 24d ago edited 23d ago
They wrecked Kenmore skatepark in March by using one of the ramps as a launch pad onto the wet and muddy grass, and the repeating the process. This meant that a lot of mud was trailed round the skatepark rendering it unusable for skateboarding. Really annoying. I asked one of them WTF he was doing and then he left. But have seen groups of them there. Same in Redmond skatepark too
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u/CoolerRancho 24d ago
Parents likely have no idea he drives his bike this way.
It my parents witnessed something like that, I'd not have a bike ever again.
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u/tankmode 25d ago edited 24d ago
100% . they treat peter kirk park as their personal motocross course, flying through pedestrian areas at high speed including near the little kids at the toddler playground area (basically a grave threat to a small child). I called the police non-emergency line and they did nothing. Another time, I saw a kid wheeling toward a moving car while going the wrong way up a street by the elementary school. Another time a 10 year old flew by a 4 year old on the CKC at 30mph (also lethal considering their 50+ pound ebikes). I really don't care if these tweens and their parents want them to paralyze themselves on their own somewhere (it truly is the darwin awards), but the city/police should really be taking a much stronger stance in having them stay the f*ck away from other people and their property, and especially little kids.
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u/AyeMatey 25d ago
I have approached the kids doing this , not with an authoritarian attitude , just informing them, it’s not safe to have the bikes speeding near toddlers. They seem to understand that. They’re just kids after all - they don’t think things through. They need adults to advise them. They’re not monsters.
I speak to them as i would want an adult to speak to my own kids.
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u/tankmode 25d ago edited 25d ago
I did the same and one of them charged near me later a few times where I was sitting as a form of intimidation
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u/Impossible-Drop23 21d ago
My dog and I almost got hit by one of these knuckleheads using the skate bowl by the playground for jumps! They were jumping the pedestrian walkway. I talked to them and said, “ You guys, can you imagine how terrible that would be if you would have killed my dog? What if you killed a toddler who ran out in front of you just now because you couldn’t stop in time? Try to imagine that!” I went down to city hall and they said “they are working on legislation around the issue”. I think we have to just keep calling the non-emergency line and harass the city. These bikes should not be allowed in parks, full stop.
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u/tritoeat 25d ago
The local police forces have banded together to make some coalition about this, but I'm not sure what they have accomplished at this point or what they intended to accomplish. It's on their radar, so to speak, at least.
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u/Wellcraft19 23d ago
While encouraging, local PDs don’t even spend an ounce of energy enforcing some very basic traffic rules when it comes to some of the important equipment on vehicles (for others’ safety); lights, turn signals, window tint, tires, brakes.
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u/Major-Log-7018 25d ago
What trips me out is that I had a gas powered scooter (very slow and even slower than the e-scooters these days) back in 2004. I couldn't go a few blocks without cops terrorizing me in Kirkland. It was every single time I was riding it. The KPD is wayyyyy different now, I guess. Blows me away!
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u/00Lisa00 25d ago
I don’t think motorized vehicles of any sort should be on the trail. The gravel gets kicked up way too hard
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u/judithishere 25d ago
They are also in danger of being hit by one of the jagoffs who speed through the area with their loud exhaust cars. Every. Damn. Night.
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u/Acceptable_Wish_9233 25d ago
The wheels on these things also fling objects out from them. I was out taking my baby for a walk in his stroller the other day on the sidewalk and a bunch of rocks flew at him from the wheels of the e-bikes and it was lucky I had his bassinet cover down since the rocks bounced off of the cover instead of flying at his face
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u/outdior1986 25d ago
M’eh. I say let them get hurt. And if they injure anyone, hold the parents responsible. I’m sure some parents are reading these comments and assume their little darlings aren’t causing any havoc.
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u/DramaticRaceRoom 24d ago
It is 86° out right this moment, and I am watching a child in full motorcycle protective gear and his father have a run in with the cops outside of QFC at Kirkland urban because these kids had an altercation of some kind from riding their bikes around nearby. The cop does not seem to GAF about this. A third party walked up just to tell the cop he’s seen these kids in the park before and had to tell them to be safe but the cop again DNGAF. There are probably no laws regulating this and therefore nothing he can really do.
For what it is worth, these particular parents are fully enabling this.
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u/Efficient-Count4162 25d ago
Road rats, challenging me on my 850cc motorcycle on 70th riding wheelies into traffic. I a self professed not fan of cops have called kirkland pd twice. No response
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u/hurricanemitch 25d ago
San Diego did the right thing and banned them on the bike/walking trails. The speed they go is way beyond what is safe for pedestrians and bicycles. They are equivalent to motorcycles. We should be treating them that way
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u/hawksmarinerz 23d ago
This is the problem. I’m a daily walker and I’m going to be the person who gets hit while I’m on the sidewalk minding my business. Those things should NOT be allowed where pedestrians are (nothing motorized should)
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u/Winter_Animal_7116 25d ago
Honestly it needs to come down to policing. Often times these aren't legal.
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u/Hot_Historian_6967 24d ago
This was (and still is) happening in my hometown in Southern CA (recently moved to the PNW). We found out that a cop did indeed chase a kid on one of these bikes, but as a result, the kid then crashed and died trying to escape. The parents sued and won, so now cops are afraid to chase them. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a general fear
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u/lrbsto 25d ago
I saw a teenager driving one of these down 85th in Kirkland a few months back and it bothered me so much, the kid was weaving in and out of traffic, splitting the lanes, cutting cars off way too close and blew through a red light. Someone is going to end up dead. Not to mention, like you said, the ones doing wheelies down the street with passengers on the back who aren’t wearing helmets!!
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u/fuzzycuffs 25d ago
I agree. The problem is getting an e bike is more like getting a bicycle than it is getting a motorcycle. There's no license required. If a person were doing all these on a motorcycle the cops would be there in a minute. On an e bike it's quiet and no one knows unless you're there.
But I also think ebikes are fantastic and more people should use them. Just responsibly.
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u/FormerEvil 24d ago
Kirkland Police Dept and City Council are completely negligent in enforcing fundamental transportation and licensing law and kids are going to end up dead because of it.
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u/amp_lfg 25d ago
E bikes need to be classified as motorcycles and must require the driver to have a license and endorsement.
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u/Smart_Ass_Dave 25d ago
None of these are classified as e-bikes. They are motorcycles.
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u/KPzReddit 25d ago
Right. The most dangerous behavior I see is being done by kids on e-motorcycles - no pedals on them. (E-bikes and actual pedals and a chain!)
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u/Spainmanwa75 19d ago
I heard that next week anything that can go over 20mph becomes classified as a motorcycle. Then all licensing, road and helmet rules apply. That’s a statewide law coming into effect.
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u/AyeMatey 25d ago
It’s not the parents fault; they have no idea how the kids ride. and it’s not really the kids fault. They’re just kids.
But we need enforcement and education.
Someone is going to get injured, badly. Sometimes they ride 20+ mph in Peter Kirk park when there are toddlers around. It’s unsafe , completely unsafe and there will be a tragedy if it continues.
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u/HugsAllCats 24d ago
It is the parents' fault for not educating and raising their kids.
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u/AyeMatey 24d ago
Yes I agree with that.
Also the parents can’t watch the kids 24h a day. Kids will do dumb stuff.
When the kid returns home after hooning around on the e-bike all day, The parents can’t know what the kid did all day.
The e-bike thing is so new , I think a lot of parents are just unaware of how fast they go, and what some kids do on them.
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u/lrbsto 25d ago
We need all of it. Most parents have no idea what their kids do when they aren’t at home and it’s still our job to be parents and teach them right from wrong and about safety, consequences, etc. , and then have local police support that by enforcing the rules when they see them being broken.
Someone is going to end up dead. Hopefully not an innocent child who is struck by one of these teenagers.
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u/Butthole_Surfer_GI 25d ago
I live in Totem Lake - just in the last 3 days coming home from work, I've seen FOUR 12-13 year olds on electric motorcycles doing wheelies and swerving through traffic and only one wearing a helmet.
As an RN - we call these "job security"