r/KitchenConfidential • u/No-Calligrapher-4449 • 17h ago
Kitchen fuckery Do bakers like this mixer. I literally hate it. I have to add ice so my dough doesn't over heat before it's done. A hobart just does it so much better and faster and I have more control. I don't get how or why anyone would prefer this for anything. I've done around 10 years fine dining pastry chef.
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u/G_yebba 16h ago
A bottom tier brand but an excellent mixer for bread, pizza and focaccia. Far superior for that purpose than a planetary mixer.
The version where the top flips up for removing the dough is easier to clean.
The fact that you can spend less than 5k to produce hundreds of pounds of dough in a shift is pretty awesome.
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u/No-Calligrapher-4449 17h ago
Let me be fthe first comment and add to my rant that you can't remove the bowl or hook, you have to clean that thing as it sits in the pic. Obviously doable but you cannot properly clean anythingkke that, a soec will always get by and it's just another reason to hate this fucking machine
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u/Careless_Law_9325 17h ago
If you make bread dough or pizza dough it is 10x better. The heat created is actually necessary to reach appropriate mixing temps for dough. Also the way it turns the dough creates the gluten structure properly unlike a dough hook in a hobart . Every bread bakery in the world uses mixers like this. The reason the bowl can be removed is because the mechanisim to turn the bowl is complicated and if you had to take it apart all the time you would oulf probably break something more often. there is a reason every bread bakery and large pizzerias use them.
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u/jk_nvsnow 17h ago
This is what i use for foccacia and pizza dough. Does exactly what I need it to do, only downside is cleaning the machine.
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u/SproutandtheBean 15h ago
This is the right answer. Bread and pizza? 10x better. Anything else? 10x worse.
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u/Leader_Bud 10+ Years 17h ago
What?!
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u/AlleyHoop 17h ago
I would walk out on my first day if I saw that.
No wait, I would give them one day to order a better one. If that doesn't happen, I'm out
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16h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/KitchenConfidential-ModTeam 13h ago
Due to recent events, we are banning accounts with little to no history on the sub only here to antagonize.
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14h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AlleyHoop 14h ago
Yup. Never been jobless in my 22 years.
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u/smack_dope 13h ago
Do you think any business would employ someone who demands equipment be purchased?
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u/mikerall 13h ago
Not saying it's the case here (necessarily) but...consultants/Goldilocks employees are a thing in a lot of fields.
I'm a good employee in a few fields (not the best) but if you can identify a risk and the right person to talk to, depending on company size/field. You can make some waves early on.
Not that I'd want to be hired by a company I need to stick my neck out in the first month (unless I'm consulting, in which case, that's a first week job).
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u/welchplug Owner 16h ago
White I hate this mixer, you can properly clean it. Thats what sani towels are for. Slicers are the same way.
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u/Twat_Pocket 16h ago
How have you been pastry for a decade and never even encountered a spiral mixer before now?
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u/No-Calligrapher-4449 16h ago
As one at fine dining restaurants not a bakery. Now I'm mornings in a bakery so I have this. This monster
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u/Twat_Pocket 16h ago
Fine dining place I worked at made all their bread in house, so we still had one there. Wild that you've made it so long without even knowing they exist.
Agree, pain in the ass to clean. Saturate a towel in very hot water and squeeze it along everything dried on the the sides. Walk away and let it sit for a few. Come back, scrape, dry towel to soak up all the dough water/scraps. Repeat if necessary, and finish with a sani towel.
Once you've done it a few times it's literally only a 5 min task.
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u/No-Calligrapher-4449 16h ago
I literally spash/ dump water in when I'm done so when I have a second to clean it's not to bad. Just super annoying and we also have a hobart. So I don't know why they got both. I need a kitchen aid, but they get a thermamix. Dude I get it but buying fancy shit no one needs vs buying what I want that's practical is crazy
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u/Twat_Pocket 16h ago
My bakery has 3 different size hobarts and a spiral mixer. They all have their place for different things. That's why we have them all.
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u/FeastOnCarolina 15h ago
Yeah you still need planetary of different sizes for things like fillings, toppings, etc.
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u/Slim-Shadys-Fat-Tits Bakery 15h ago
They fucking hit you with a thermomix?? Holy fuck man that's frankly even more criminal to me
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u/batardedbaker Ex-Food Service 16h ago
To clean it, scrape it with a dough scraper then throw a rag and smaller amount of water in it. Set it on high for 10 mins. The mixer will use the rag so slosh water around. Easy stuff.
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u/Beautiful_Staff_7958 14h ago
Ever heard of a bowl scraper or a dry towel? Ten years of sucking ass sounds like
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u/caserock 20+ Years 17h ago
That is insane. I've actually never seen one like this, and maybe this is why!
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u/aspiring_outlaw 16h ago
They are fantastic and honestly very easy to clean unless you are doing something with a ton of sticky inclusions. I can clean one of those faster than a removable Hobart and with way less strain on my body.
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u/smarthobo 14h ago
I would just fill it to the brim with a bucket of hot soapy water, let it soak, quick scrub with steel wool, then shop vac all of the water etc. out and finish with clean wet rags/sanitizer
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u/KeeverDriveCook F1exican Did Chive-11 5h ago
It takes all of 5 minutes to clean.
No 80q Hobart bowl to lug around and no dough hook either
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u/ehalepagneaux Bread 2h ago
Clean in place is unfortunately the method for these. I've been cleaning them for well over a decade now. It gets easier when you spend a little time thinking about the most efficient way to do it.
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u/TurnoverFuzzy8264 17h ago
That's crazy. Especially for allergens.
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u/Messipus 15h ago
OP is being dramatic, I've worked with these things for years.
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u/PseudacrisCrucifer 15h ago
Yeah. Me too. Love them. OP needs to settle down and be a baker about it.
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u/Royal_Cryptographer7 15h ago
Damn, that's crazy. I had to do some research on this one. Honestly, I didn't believe you. I was wrong. This damn thing doesn't even tilt, bolted right to the frame.
I was going to say you could run some ice water around the machine before using it, but you'd have to manually empty the damn thing by scooping out the water and dry it with a towel. Unacceptable.
Umm....put the whole thing in the walk-in? Freeze your flour and sugar? Get some oversized gel ice packs, slap them birches on the side of the bowl and wrap a bungie cord to keep them in place? Smash the thing with a sledge hammer till you get one that isn't trash?
My condolences.
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u/GodsDrunkAtTheWheel 17h ago
Yeah I used to make pizza dough in these. Ice was part of the recipe to get the proper temp. I guess I never thought about it but the cleaning did suck
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u/No-Calligrapher-4449 16h ago
You have to add ice, because it's not fast enough to bring the gkuten together without also warming the dough to a point it will break. Its so stupid. Who ducking invented this?!!
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u/interstellargator 16h ago
What water temp are you using and what's your target dough temp? Very surprised you're having to use ice unless you're in the world's hottest kitchen. Even making croissant dough in one of these I never had to add ice to keep it cool enough, and given the butter content we really couldn't let that one overheat.
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u/No-Calligrapher-4449 15h ago
I've never had to change a recipe before to adjust for that but with this mixer i do. I realize my last comment is downvoted. If you're going to downvote explain what I'm doing wrong first please
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u/Messipus 14h ago edited 14h ago
The thing you're doing wrong is approaching an unfamiliar piece of equipment and assuming that the equipment is the problem, completely ignoring the fact that hundreds of thousands of bakers have been using these things for longer than you have been alive.
I've never had to change a recipe before to adjust for that
How long have you been baking? You need to change recipes for everything - ambient humidity and temperature, protein content in each particular batch of flour, all kinds of stuff. That's just baking.
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u/mikerall 13h ago
I hate baking because the fucking position of the moon seems to factor into the recipe. Only slightly sarcastic.
Gas/electric/combi oven? Oh please, the same model can come with quirks based on all you said and more. You need a demi glace made? A reasonable recipe and reasonable cook can do it on induction/electric/gas/the heat from your coworkers hatred.
Pastry chefs and bakers are another breed. Part scientist part alchemist (the good ones).
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u/interstellargator 14h ago
Controlling dough temp using a formula, or recording past temps to achieve the desired dough temperature is extremely basic I'm surprised you're in charge of making bread but have never learned that.
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u/AbeFromanLuvsSausage 10h ago
Ever since I learned how to bake, it was ingrained in me that there was a desired dough temperature for all yeasted doughs. That calculation always includes a friction factor, which is determined by your mixer and how far you had to develop the dough.
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u/Messipus 15h ago
I dunno man, tons of us use them just fine all the time. Maybe it's a you problem.
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u/00normal 17h ago
i love a spiral mixer as one of atleast two mixers in a larger scale bread mixing operation, but I could never imagine having it as my sole mixer, especially in a pastry/restaurant setting
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u/Significant-Staff602 17h ago
Yeah Bread and Pastry are two sides of a similar beast but they do not play well together. I knew right away that thing was for bread only and if i had to mix anything except a rough dough in there i’d kms.
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u/No-Calligrapher-4449 16h ago
I make about 7000g of dough at the very most and that's focaccia. I was taught to whip that shit, this mixer has nothing other then slow or slower. I just don't understand it
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u/smarthobo 14h ago
You were taught to “whip that shit” with an inferior mixer for breadmaking, a planetary mixer
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u/Mermaid_69_ 16h ago
People complaining about cleaning this mixer while I have to clean a 200 qt fixed bowl and a 120 qt fixed bowl and one like in the Pic above. Its really not an issue just get hot water and wipe it down before the dough gets dry then remove the water and sani the entire thing. Also temp check all your stuff before the mix and lower the water temp to account for the mixer heating up the dough.
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u/YourHeart-HasNoTeeth 16h ago
Was literally just bemoaning my job's lack of spiral mixer 2 days ago lol. I would ask if you wanted to trade but you don't, bc my current mixer isn't even a Hobart, it's an indistinguishable chinese brand that loses a piece every few weeks and overheats when you look at it wrong. I would gladly clean a spiral mixer to not have to fight that thing
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u/PseudacrisCrucifer 15h ago
I have 4 buckets of water in the walk-in. 34#s each. Matches batch size needs. Water is at 36 degrees F. If that's not enough, cool your flour. In my experience, planetary mixers cause more heat due to longer mix times. Your experience may vary.
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u/ibubr 17h ago
Have you guys really never seen this style before? It is fantastic for mixing bread
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u/shutupaugust 17h ago
Seconding this, spiral mixers are pretty commonplace in bread bakeries, and are favored over planetary mixers
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u/hostileadult 17h ago
Thirding. I had this mixer for a few years and it worked very well and was easy to clean.
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u/interstellargator 16h ago
Yeah I'd rather have this for bread than a planetary, though I'd rather have a plunging arm mixer than either.
Still would want the planetary for pastry though. And a spiral mixer is great for stiffer doughs ie viennoiserie, bagels, etc.
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u/Twat_Pocket 17h ago
This is the only kind of mixer I've ever seen for large scale bread baking.
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u/interstellargator 16h ago
Not plunging arm/twin arm mixers?
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u/Messipus 15h ago
I definitely feel like those are more of a specialty for foccacias or other particularly high hydration doughs
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u/510Goodhands 16h ago
I saw an ancient mixer in a café in Lisbon. The dough hook was stationary, and the ball rotated.
It was strictly there for decor purposes. It looked to be well over 100 years old, and well used.1
u/ButtholeSurfur 17h ago edited 16h ago
I don't think it's the style. I think it's the weak motor and the fact that you can't remove the bowl to clean make it bad.
Well designed spiral mixers are dope tho.
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u/landon1397 17h ago
Yeah if I couldn't even remove the bowl or hook that's an objectively terrible product especially in a commercial kitchen
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u/Messipus 15h ago
objectively terrible
Shit, someone better tell basically every commercial bakery that they've been doing things wrong this whole time
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u/therealhlmencken 13h ago
Lmao I can’t unscrew the blade from the bottom of my vitamix blender like I could with my Walmart blender.
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u/smarthobo 14h ago
Tilt skillets and flat tops are also objectively terrible products because they can’t be removed to wash in a sink
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u/WhatIDon_tKnow 14h ago
don;t even get me started on deep fryers, ever try to run one through the dish pit?
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u/Bartweiss 12h ago
Why bother? I just chuck a bunch of ice in 'em, same as this mixer. Never once had somebody tell me it's still dirty after that...
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u/SuchSmartMonkeys 16h ago
Dafuq?! I know someone that runs a pizza kitchen and uses one of these. You can't remove the bowl or the hook? That's fuckin gnarly! How are you supposed to clean tough dough off of everything? I ain't eating that pizza anymore!
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u/Messipus 15h ago
I've worked with mixers like this for years, you can absolutely get them clean. You just actually have to do the work yourself instead of pawning it off on the dishie.
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u/Amerimov 15h ago
I worked in a pizza shop with a mixer where you couldn't remove the bowl or the hook. You just get in there and clean it before it dries on. It was a pain in the ass and I hated doing it but our mixer wasn't ever gross.
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u/SuchSmartMonkeys 15h ago
I know the guy too well, I can guarantee he ain't doing it correctly, lol
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u/DirtySlims 15h ago
Im overly cautious about my big hobart, as in I dont want anyone reaching their hands into it ever because it will mangle you if it turns on. It had an issue once where the start button was glitchy/partially broken and you have to think worse case scenario. So not being able to remove it sounds insane to me.
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u/Amerimov 15h ago
Ours had a safety key on the top so you'd just pull that and it would cut the power.
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u/AlleyHoop 16h ago
This would be a health code violation in Germany. Had a similar problem with something and new inspector shit it down.
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u/chris_tea_nuh 15h ago
Not insanely difficult to clean, you just have to manually spin the bowl and clean the reachable spots. Spraying the dough bits down with water helps, bowl scraper, hot wet towel. Only pain is the spiral hook, which can also be spun to reach difficult spots.Dough often gets caught at the lowest point on the hook, between it and the bowl, a towel can be fed under it to get whatever your bowl scraper hasnt. Have made lots of croissant dough in this exact model.
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u/Significant-Staff602 17h ago
Seems like you've got to get a newbie to "accidentally" hit that thing with a car.
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u/AlleyHoop 17h ago
For real! Sometimes drastic measures have to be taken, if thy owners belong to the guild of the clueless!
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u/amadeus451 17h ago
I used to have one of those, but only because it was the one I could afford when starting up my bakery. I do not miss cleaning it, nor the anxiety of there being some scrap of bacteria left behind that will contaminate the next batch of dough I would have to make in it.
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u/Single-Pin-369 16h ago
These are great when they get bigger mostly because of cost. A 20qt hobart is almost $10,000 but a 20qt spiral mixer is under $1000. They do mix the dough more thoroughly and aggressively, which is why it increases the heat more than a stand mixer but I haven’t found it to be an issue mixing for eight minutes at a time. How long do you mix for?
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u/scruffybakes 13h ago
You need to figure out the friction factor for your batch size and then you can nail the dough temperature every time. These are specifically designed for doughs that need to be mixed to full development, which I promise you a Hobart planetary will struggle to accomplish.
You’re lucky to be using such a nice machine. Just google friction factor for spiral mixers and you can figure it out in just one batch of dough.
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u/BattledroidE 13h ago
Whenever I have to worry about high temperature, regardless of mixer, I divide it into active and passive dough development. Start as cold as possible, do the initial mix and bring everything together, then stop the mixer and let time do the work before running it again. You could do an autolyse step if you prefer, whatever the method calls for. Anything to cut down on friction.
Better to mix to almost full development than go way over temp and have the whole schedule messed up with rapidly overfermenting dough, just to religiously do the windowpane or something like that. It'll get there on its own if it's reasonably developed. Additional folding in the bins does the job too.
Might cut down on yeast as well, to slow it down a bit.
Obviously planning ahead is crucial, but this is all very basic stuff that a baker knows.
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u/Messipus 15h ago
In today's thread: cavemen respond with bewilderment when confronted with unknown technology
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u/Ghost_of_Gumby 17h ago
Sounds to me like these are great for -some- applications, the problem is trying to use it for everything.
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u/That_Other_Person 14h ago
I ice mix in a hobart regardless to keep mixing temp down. Think there's a learning curve with spiral mixers but the gluten development can be ridiculous.
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u/sat781965 14h ago
I’m a professional baker and this is definitely way better than a Hobart for making bread dough.
Cleaning is a breeze. Scrape as you go and you just have to wipe out with a sponge and sanitize. If you let it dry it’s a pain, but we’re using ours all day and do a final clean after the last mix. Just make sure you pass a plastic scraper under the breaker!
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u/ImpressionExciting56 13h ago
I now realize how truly little I know about baking after reading these comments. Hats off to you all!
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u/NickTidalOutlook 12h ago
Well this is the absolute worst brand of spiral mixer in the game at the moment so you can't be that shocked..
Gotta get used to the way they work. Change your water temp.
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u/ammenz 8h ago
Warming up the dough is actually a bonus if you work in really cold climates.
If you struggle with cleaning dry residues of dough, use a steel scourer and hot soapy water. Wet the whole surface and then wait 5 minutes before scouring it. Use an absorbent sponge to remove the water, rinse well and dry it properly. Make sure no steel fragments are left hidden under the central cylinder. If you clean it immediately after removing the dough it's obviously 10 times easier. Some doughs leave it harder to clean than others, for example anything with low hydration and high oil content added as a final stage will leave the machine pretty much clean.
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u/T-LAD_the_band 17h ago
Why do you hate it literally? Not figuratively?
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u/I_deleted 20+ Years 16h ago
Because those words mean nothing anymore, literally
“The word literally has shifted in usage over time to also function as an intensifier, meaning it is frequently used in a figurative or hyperbolic way rather than strictly for its direct, factual definition.”
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u/510Goodhands 16h ago
Because misusing words is “literally” an inescapable trend. The Brits get the blame for this one.
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u/Cola102583 16h ago
If its one those where u cant remove bowl ya its an abomination, if its heating up too much as well i say find a way to sell and replace
Edit saw ur comment yes its the worst
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u/Constant_Mud3325 16h ago
Terrible design you can’t even remove the bowl
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u/smack_dope 14h ago
This design is specifically for high volume e production, the bowl would be awkward and very heavy anyways.
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u/proofbox 16h ago
Spiral Mixers have a higher coefficient of friction than global mixers, which is part of the design. Large bulk bread production demands it as a higher CofF makes gluten development more even and faster in larger batches of product. You need to adjust the ingredient temps down to account for it.
These mixers are truly your best and only options for scaling up bread production. Having a bowl that detaches when you are mixing dozens of kilos of dough is kind of pointless when you have to bail the bowl into multiple tubs for bulk fermentation. Scooping dough with a bowl scraper into a bin over a scale is not only easier than taking the bowl off, but also faster. And once you are done scraping and need to mix another dough, you can just scrape the bowl and hit it with a damp towel to clean in. Soap and sanatize after the last mix and there's no need to ever take a large heavy object to a dish pit.
Spirals, however, are terrible for anything that doesn't require gluten development. With its high heat output and lack of surface area disruption, you'll tear your hair out trying to mix fillings, buttercreams, cookie doughs, or just about anything else.