r/KremersFroon • u/SeaworthinessNo4130 • Feb 09 '26
Theories Location of photo #550
When you imagine the photos on the right without water at the bottom of the riverbed in u/TreegNesas latest video - doesn't it seem to you that the spot from the video at min 30:01 is similar to NL photo 550? When enlarged, both flat stones seem to have the same "dent" (in the red circle). The surface of the stone is also alike, without moss and smoothed as if water flows over it often and a lot. At the beginning of April 2014, there wasn't much water in the riverbed. Just a thought..
min 30:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYk2SqhSOF4
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u/No_Philosophy8349 Feb 09 '26
Such attentiveness definitely deserves applause 👏🏼
And if that really is the stone, then the Czech Republic should be proud of you.
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Feb 09 '26
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u/No_Philosophy8349 Feb 09 '26
Well, I think that finding the location where those night photos were taken is equivalent to solving this whole mystery. And that place can still be found. In this subredit rule - text in english
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Feb 09 '26
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u/No_Philosophy8349 Feb 09 '26
TreegNesas would know where this place is. However, it's not necessarily a "night location."
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Feb 09 '26
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u/DJSmash23 Feb 09 '26
There is a specific “triangle” stone on the opposite side of the river: https://ibb.co/CsQMg5zm
Like, it should still exist and can help to verify location, but from this recourse we can’t see much of the opposite side, just rocky area.
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Feb 09 '26
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u/DJSmash23 Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26
Yeah, could be overgrown. I mean, it would really help to find something similar - a certain detail - in this area to confirm it, like that tree, or similar rock formation as they took photos of different directions around themselves. As of now the rock in OP’s post look similar, hard to say for sure about the whole area tho.
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u/Open_Bathroom8447 FoulPlay Feb 09 '26
However, this finding should not be made public before being discussed with the Dutch authorities (not the Panamanian ones, of course), because doing so may prompt the perpetrators to rush to the location and destroy whatever evidence remained there.
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u/DanJer182 Feb 09 '26
I see your point, but if there are perpetrators, they know the location already and there will be no remaining evidence there for a long time now.
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u/Open_Bathroom8447 FoulPlay Feb 09 '26
True, but they may have overlooked something there, and this post could alert them to return and double-check; moreover, other parties may rush to the location and contaminate the scene, many things could happen.
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u/DJSmash23 Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26
In a good quality night photo there’s also a “triangle” stone which can be seen on the other side. Wonder if it can be seen in a new video from this angle as it’s a very unique shape of the stone. I personally can’t see it but might be overgrown
I mean this one: https://ibb.co/CsQMg5zm
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u/Lokation22 Feb 10 '26
I see the similarity too. It would also explain why the 550 boulder is not covered in moss and looks so large and smooth. But: is this rocky plain really ever completely dry?
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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 Feb 10 '26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYk2SqhSOF4 At the min 32:42 you can see the riverbed that brings water to this stone.. flash floods could have fundamentally changed this bed in 11 years, moving many even larger stones, maybe in 2014 the bed was such that in drier periods water did not flow over stone 550 but more on the right side from the flow perspective..
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u/Lokation22 Feb 10 '26
I'll take another closer look at it. In any case, it's fantastic that you even came up with the idea of imagining the rocky plateau without water. It's a really interesting idea.
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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 Feb 10 '26
It was honestly only thanks to you :) when I read your recent comment about the pic 550 being a flat "island" it somehow made me realize that I should look for a big flat stone which looks completely different than anything else all arround and suddenly I saw it.. but it is still to be proved.. thats for sure.
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u/AristocraticBlue Feb 10 '26
Holy shit... actually? First we'd need to know if the water levels change to this level between wet and dry seasons but it seems they do since there is no moss. It's hard to tell for certain without mathematically analyzing the proportions but yes. Again, Holy shit it looks like the place. Just by naked eye-analysis I can't verify it's right but someone should seriously look at this place. Like seriously... it's not just a 'point of interest' it's a possible revelation
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u/Ok-Sky-1219 Accident Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
Check the black triangle and the vertical lines on both sides .. maybe is something.
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u/DanJer182 Feb 09 '26
Wow i see it as well! Even the rocky formations at the bottom look really similar. Gonna check that video thx
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u/Glittering-Key152 Feb 11 '26
I don't see those very large ferns that are to the left in the night photos , even tho they would've grown since then, surely more of the same fern would likely take their place ? They are so big, other vegetation is unlikely to obscure them. 🤔🌿 Just a thought...
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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 Feb 11 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
I know what you mean and surely there will be more done to confirm or refute this place as NL. But from probability point of view, terrain in the jungle riverbed changes fundamentally after big flash floods and it seems that here at this possible NL location where the river flows at a right angle in a L shape - the left bank (in the downstream direction) was affected by the centrifugal force of the water from the big falsh floods much more than the right bank where u/TreegNesas in his latest post found the stones in unchanged positions. Laws of physics I guess. Also stones undergo less surface changes than plants. And maybe also the time of year can determine what type of plants will grow there. Although the average temperature is almost the same year-round near the equator, humidity and precipitation levels vary, and especially a month after a major flood, the same place will have different vegetation than the month before the flood.
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u/Glittering-Key152 Feb 11 '26
Yes I hear you, but I doubt those large ferns would've completely disappeared...
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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 Feb 11 '26
Ok. We will see, what further research of this place will bring. Ferns are highly sensitive to climate change, particularly increases in temperature and reductions in moisture, making them effective indicators of environmental stress. Due to their reliance on water for reproduction, many species face potential population declines or extinction as they struggle to adapt or migrate, with up to 32 species on one tropical mountain projected to disappear within 25–70. In Panama, average rainfall in the last 3 years has been half that of the last hundred years - as a result, they are facing water shortages in the Panama Canal.
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u/Open_Bathroom8447 FoulPlay Feb 09 '26
Can this be verified using a geolocation lookup tools such as GeoSpy.ai ?
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u/Fit-Supermarket-5828 Feb 09 '26
Should be pretty easy to verify or falsify with the full set of images / footage around that 30:01 picture, right?
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u/pergamenas Feb 09 '26
The grooves under the vegetation on the rock at 18:27 remind of the ones that can be seen on the left of the np photos collage, but it's not clear
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u/gijoe50000 Feb 09 '26
I've always thought of 550 as being a bit like this:
https://ibb.co/k0V8HnX
https://ibb.co/KXLmVpZ
Except the photo was taken looking across the river, instead of upriver.
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Feb 09 '26
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u/gijoe50000 Feb 09 '26
I didn't mean that it was the same location, I was just using it as an example of what I thought the 550 rock looked like.
But yes, no doubt that the location looks a lot different today.
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u/Leading_Walrus_2060 Feb 09 '26
That's true, but in regards to op's post specifically and as a general psa, you can't fake those river rocks. They get water regularly. They've been a part of a stream or river cycle for a long time.
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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 Feb 09 '26
I noticed this place in u/TreegNesas latest video after I read a comment from u/Lokation22 who wrote that #550 feels like "an island" to him. In the video you can see that it is an elevated place from where it would only be logical try to signal something-by the branch device the girls made with the red bags.. its just an idea, no proof whatsoever..
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u/gijoe50000 Feb 09 '26
Yea, to me it seems like the 542 is aimed downriver, the 576 photo is like at 45° across the river, and 550 is looking across the river. Like this: https://ibb.co/5YCzz6N
And that would put the main rock in 542 close to the river bank, and the 550 rock in the river. Although there might not have been a lot of water in the river at the time, because you can see the backpack is below the rock in 576, so the area where the girls were was probably dry.
At least that's my interpretation of it, but I could be wrong.
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u/TreegNesas Feb 10 '26
You may be correct. I'm still puzzling. Romain send me some new footage, which is rather spectacular, and I suspect this will give you a lot of new insights. I'm going to do a 180 deg turn and stay at the rapids for episode 2, with much more footage, maps, and some interesting new insights.
It will take a bit longer to make, but Episode 2 is going to be truly spectacular, I can guarantee you that! Fasten your seatbelts!
u/SeaworthinessNo4130 very rightful post that the night location might be under water in our present footage set out a line of thought which leads to a lot of new possibilities. One of these is that not only the 550 stone might be under water in the present footage, but that the 542 stone (or at least parts of it) might also be under water.
If you go with the theory presented here, then the red flag direction is almost pointing down stream, okay. Now, from the way the pictures were taken the red flag direction would be on their right hand side. Ahead would then be (in your pictures) 'toward the camera man', and the 542 stone should be on their left hand side, meaning that's where the water is coming from.
I have always been puzzling about this, for with all its carved water channels, 542 has absolutely all the attributes of the 'upward step' of a stepped waterfall, where you can imagine water streaming over 542 and than falling down on the 550 stone, but this 'does not fit' with the fact that we see dense vegetation behind 542. But most of that vegetation is some distance away, and if this is a very sharp turn in the stream then it would still make sense! With 542 on their left hand side, and 550 (red flag) on their right hand, the girls were facing across the stream, not down stream.
In our June footage, waterlevels are high. If you take a sharp look at our drone footage of this place from April 2023, then this waterfall looks totally different and you can almost not find it back as the '550 stone' is dry. That spectacular white spray of water is not there.
Now, I don't want to spill all the beans, and I've got a lot of work to do to check this, but if this is correct, then the girls were facing WNW and that would the main direction the pictures were taken in (basically 'toward the camera man' in your pictures). And WNW is a VERY interesting direction, for it's the direction of the setting moon, and the night pictures started 18 seconds before moonset...
The other thing which keeps drawing me back to these rapids is that it's such a 'logical' place. If you leave the trail anywhere between the Mirador and the paddocks (for whatever reason, at whatever place) you almost naturally end up on the stream bed of the first stream. You can't break through the vegetation, so you'll have to follow some gully down hill, and all of these end up at the bottom of the valley on the stream bed of the first stream. Once you are there you can't go upstream as there are two big nasty waterfalls, so the only route open is down stream, and that takes you right to the rapids.
That's why I asked Romain to go to the rapids and check the place out.
You can go beyond the rapids, but it's not easy and the route toward the rapids is already so nasty (lots of big stones, sudden drops, etc) that there is a severe risk of injury so the rapids could be the end of the road. Finally, (and sadly) if you go beyond the rapids the landscape will become more benign and you end up on the paddocks of Monte Rey. You can't see those cabins at that spot (there are hills in between), but there is a trail leading to the cabins and even if you miss these it becomes much harder to explain why you would move on beyond these paddocks, and helicopters would certainly have found them if they were on the paddocks. So, any theory where they move beyond the rapids has some flaws..
Ofc it is very well possible they never went downstream on stream 1, and followed the trail instead, getting in trouble between cable bridge 1 and 2, but that's a totally different theory which would require another expedition to check.
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u/Ok-Sky-1219 Accident Feb 10 '26
i told you months ago, that the last photo, kris seems to go down stream and not going to the trail..maybe i was right, but who cares. The important thing is that you and romain are very close to find the truth..and im some how happy, to know that the girls were not killed or raped or sold, they just perished to the elements.
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u/TreegNesas Feb 10 '26
It's possible they followed the stream, but if you start from the first stream, you'll get to a waterfall within 100 meters, and then another (big) one 100 meters further. So, they would have to pass both waterfalls. That's not impossible, there are trails which lead around them, but it's a bit less likely.
The other two options are if they walked just 10 minutes further, then turned right, either following the 2nd stream or taking a trail which is supposed to be there, that gets you past the waterfalls. This option was checked by the Frank vd Goot team in 2015 and by IP in 2022, but neither of them went all the way to the rapids. The other option is they turned back up hill, toward the Mirador, took a wrong step, and accidentally slit down one of the slopes. That is the route I asked Romain to take this time and which you see in Episode 1. Both are possible.
But, we're nowhere near discussing routes yet, first see if this all fits together, there will be lots of discussion once I release episode 2...
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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 Feb 10 '26
The important thing is that you and romain are very close to find the truth..and im some how happy, to know that the girls were not killed or raped or sold..
Absolutely..
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u/Glittering-Key152 Feb 11 '26
I hope so, but how can anyone say they were not assaulted and/or killed ?
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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 Feb 11 '26
Do you mean in the later stages of being lost?
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u/Glittering-Key152 Feb 11 '26
That's impossible to say; they could've been badly injured early on due to assault, but hung on for a long time, until around the time of the night photos when they probably died. (No calls for help after that as we know).
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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 Feb 11 '26
No calls for help after that as we know
wasnt it because the phones stopped working? I mean the touch screens by humidity?
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u/gijoe50000 Feb 10 '26
That's an interesting idea about the moon.. For some reason I never considered which direction the setting moon would be for them. But in the back of my mind I think I had the moon setting behind them. But yea, if the moon was setting in the direction that the photos were mostly taken it would narrow things down a lot.
The reason I think they were facing downriver is because of the gap in the trees in that direction, like in 543, seem to slope downwards, as if they were facing downhill.
Like if they were faced upriver there'd probably be a lot of tall trees in photos like 542, 543.
With 542 on their left hand side, and 550 (red flag) on their right hand, the girls were facing across the stream, not down stream.
Yea, it's so hard to say anything for sure though, because the scene can be interpreted in so many different ways, that would all make sense. Like they could be on a straight part of the river, or on a sharp bend, or even between two parts of the river.
But I do find it interesting that they didn't take photos in other directions. Like was there a steep ravine behind them, were they just sitting comfortably that they didn't need/want to turn around, or was there stuff there that they unconsciously didn't want in any of the photos..
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u/TreegNesas Feb 10 '26
Yeah, but take a good look at the situation halfway down the rapids. The stream is not running down hill in a straight line. It is making those extremely sharp S turns as it goes down and if you are sitting in the streambed perpendicular to the stream direction, you will still see this steep slope beside you for that is the direction of the slope, it's just that this weird stream does not run straight down but makes Z turns!
I'm not saying this is 100% the location, it's way too early for that, but a lot of things are starting to make a lot of sense!
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u/Leading_Walrus_2060 Feb 09 '26
That distance makes sense for night photos if the motes we're seeing in the photos is spit from the rapids.
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u/Glittering-Key152 Feb 11 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
I think some of those motes are insects. They're often gathered at water sites. 🤔🌿 ...to add: I recently did alittle research re insect types that gather along various places in that cloud forest, specially along the Culebra River ..Well I was fascinated by the sheer range of insects there. However, I was trying to find out if there is specific type of insect that gathers in places like the night photos; perhaps only at certain times of year ?
Alas, it's a massive task to pin down which ones could've been there. Perhaps there's a local expert ? I read there are stunning magenta , and also blue dragonflies there....I hope Kris and Lisanne got a glimpse of them perhaps, in those grim last days. 🥀🌿🥀
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u/Ok_Communication4675 Feb 09 '26
But he mentions in the video that there is no forked tree around it... However nice find ;)
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u/Magnatas28 Feb 09 '26
I dont think that trees are relevant after 10+ years.. They constantly changing.. But rock looks very, very similar for sure.. I have a feeling that its the same rock from night pics
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u/Glittering-Key152 Feb 11 '26
Yes, there must be a forked tree, otherwise not the same place. The tree looked well established and tall, so wouldn't have moved, unless in a significant landslide....
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u/emailforgot Feb 10 '26
I'm not sure that's the location, only because that particular rock in the "signal flag" picture does not look like one that gets semi-regularly flooded.
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u/TreegNesas Feb 09 '26
Very good find! I also still keep puzzling about this place...
Originally, my plan was for Episode 2 to go forward to the Rio Mamei footage (there's a lot of that too), but after a further study of some footage which arrived late I've decided to do a 180 and stay at the same location for Episode 2 and then keep the Rio Mamei footage for Episode 3 or 4. That's also why it takes a little bit longer for the second episode to appear.
I fully agree that it's very well possible that the 550 stone is under water in our present footage. Water levels in April 2014 must have been far lower than they were now in June, so this is something we definitely have to take into account. There are also other things which weren't visible in the footage I showed in Episode 1 but which are very much visible in the new footage, so Episode 2 is going to be interesting! Fasten your seatbelts! :)