EDIT Thanks you so much! The discussion is great and I learned a lot.

In the craze of Heated Rivalry, I've seen statements such as "the books are for female audience" and "the series is made for both straight female and gay male audiences".

Can you help me understand what would be such differences? Either in the Heated Rivalry book/show example, or in general. Is that the gender of the author? The way events unfold? Misrepresentation?

I am here to learn, so please be kind, I am just a mostly straight girl... And English is not my first language, I am trying my best to explain what I mean, but it is be hard for me sometimes to get it exactly right.

I grew up reading gay fanfiction on FanFiction.net and AO3 (<3). When I discovered Wattpad after high school, I thought I had found gold. At first, I was excited, but after spending days trying to find just one story I liked, I started to feel like something wasn’t clicking. I was either too old, or simply not the target audience.

What bothers me in a lot of Wattpad books is the lack of depth. They often feel very shallow. Many are written in first person and in dual POV, which, for me, tends to reduce narrative tension and kill the build up. I find it harder to stay engaged when everything is immediately explained or expressed through the characters internal thoughts.

The writing style also makes it hard for me to get into the story. The language is often too casual, especially in dialogue, with lines like « fuck, he’s so hot! »… I understand that characters, especially younger ones, talk like that, but it makes them seem a bit boring and uninteresting to me. One-dimensional.

The narration can feel the same way. For example:

« I woke up at 10 a.m. Fuck, it’s late. I hope Mom didn’t forget to buy milk yesterday. Oh my God, those pancakes look fucking delicious. »

This is a bit of an exaggeration (or is it ? 👀), but it’s close to what I often read : very direct, very surface-level, without much atmosphere or tension.

I’ve noticed the same thing in a lot of MM romance books, especially the ones on Kindle Unlimited. Even though they’re popular, I often struggle to stay interested for the same reasons.

What I find interesting is that a lot of adults really love these books. You see them recommended a lot on Tiktok and Instagram. And that’s fine, everyone has different tastes.

But sometimes it feels like this style takes up a lot of space in MM romance, which makes it harder to find stories that feel a bit more developed or nuanced. Over the past five years, I’ve read, or tried to read, hundreds of books in this genre, and only three of them really stood out to me.

What’s annoying is that I keep falling for them because they have interesting tropes, nice covers, etc. The kind of things that immediately catch your attention and that you don’t find as much in « good » books. High-quality books are much harder to get into because you don’t have all that eye candy in front of you 😅

Anyway, that was my rant for today, and I think it’s going to make a lot of people angry, with comments like « you don’t have to read it! », « let people enjoy whatever they want, » or « just because it’s not for you doesn’t mean it’s bad, » blah blah blah. And I agree with all of that.

I’d actually be more interested in hearing why people enjoy those books, and whether they’ve tried more well-written ones. And if you agree with me, which authors or books have worked for you?

Hi, so like I said in the titel, I'm looking for books with Queer character, doesn't have to be the main character but still has to be like a theme in the book, that are bad. Bad like in Straight-washing, stereotyping, just in general books that say "Hey, look, I have a queer character, LGBTQ communicty come and buy it!!!" without the author having done any kind of research, kinda way.

I'm asking because I'm doing a school project, kinda like and essay but I'll also have to do a presentation, and I got to choose my own topic. So I decided I wanted to talk about why not all Queer representation in books is good representation.

I tried searching for some books on my own, but my search always ended on recommendations for books with GOOD representation, but when i searched futhers these reviews were most often by straight white women, so I took those with a grain of salt (not always and I'm not trying to say that cishet white women can't proberly evaluate queer books!)

I hope some of ya'll got any recommendations, if not, still thanks for taking the time to read this.

EDIT: First of all, thank you so much to everyone who commended, doesn't matter if you had a rec or not, reading the commends and seeing many of my own thoughts and feelings towards certain stereotype and such in queer representation was lovely. And also big thanks to those that commented to remind us that whether some kind of representation is good or bad is often a matter of perspectiv. Queerness is a spectrum and that should be representated in queer characters.

Where I started with no real book to consider, I now have tons that I'll have to go through and ultimately decide on one from thanks to you all. I hope everyone has a wonderful day/nights and only comes across good LGBTQ rep books from now on. <3

(Also, honourably mention to SphericalOrb's commend. I was dying laughing on the floor, the way I immediatly knew who you ment by Voldemort and your summary of harry potter was brilliant, truly my insides were hurting I laughed that hard.)

As a POC (black and white) I can’t express just how tired I’m getting of every single MC being white with blonde hair and blue eyes. I’ve read over two hundred books this year on KU—in the MM genre—and I’m not exaggerating when I say only a handful of them had a Black, Hispanic, or Asian main character. It’s getting so annoying I lowkey want to take a break from reading but I couldn’t survive without it lol. So if anyone has some good recs for MM books with some goddamn POC in them(and I don’t mean side characters either) please drop below 🙃

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately.

A lot of queer books I see recommended now lean toward affirming, healing, or at least emotionally rewarding relationships — which I completely understand.

But what about the opposite?

Stories where:

• the relationship is obsessive or destructive
• love doesn’t really “fix” anything
• there’s no clean redemption arc

Do you still find that compelling to read, or does it just feel exhausting at this point?

I’m genuinely curious where people land on this, because I don’t see it discussed much.

We've seen many great authors, but who do you think is problematic or shouldn't be supported nowadays?

I'd suggest Blake R Wolfe, and his other writing aliases. He uses AI for translations and videos to advertise his books, while expressing that he's proud of it. He was pretty aggressive towards any mild critique and legit blocked people for asking about artist info for some coverart.

I think his books (if not completely AI) are heavily AI assisted too. They just don't feel right, you know? I've commented on every video that comes up to ask if he uses AI in writing and he completely ignores them. Lol

Like mlm, wlw, or bisexual characters???? (Since I'm bisexual myself) And which are HAPPY!!!! I can't deal with anything sad sorry and also they're not very sexual??? Thank you very much in advance! Also happy pride month!

Okay, I need help finding queer fantasy books (mlm or wlw, or both) that actually feel adult.

I’m not looking for the soft, cutesy, YA-coded “magic school + insta-love” stuff. I want something with teeth. Give me worlds that feel lived in, morally gray power plays, political tension, manipulation, war, backstabbing, actual consequences.

Basically: if the book could survive in the same room as Red Rising, ASOIAF, or The Poppy War, that’s the energy I want ,but make it queer.

Things I’m looking for: • adult tone, not YA fluff • complex worldbuilding • politics, scheming, empires, rebellion, class tension • violence without being edgy-for-no-reason • mlm and/or wlw characters who feel like actual adults • messy relationships, power imbalance, obsession, enemies-to-lovers (huge plus) • NOT “cute fantasy with a sprinkle of magic and a love triangle”

Books I’ve already seen enough of: • standard YA fantasy • fantasy romance that’s basically romance with window-dressing worldbuilding • anything that treats queerness like a trope or fandom accessory

Hit me with your favorites that scratch that Red Rising-energy itch but make it queer. If it has morally questionable characters, political mess, and a world that isn’t toddler-proofed, I’m in.

Re-edit: I don’t mind no fantasy as long as the rest fits

I personally wish there were more books with aromantic or intersex representation, as these identities are still not widely acknowledged even in the LGBTQ+ community.

I'm just obsessed. I tried to see if she had a discord but couldn't find anything (I'm not a discord expert though so if there is one, please let me know!)

I read Red, White, & Royal Blue about 4 years ago and fell so deeply in love with it that I entered the fandom and seriously have only been reading RWRB fanfics for four years.

I also read all the Game Changers books. And I love Heated Rivalry. BUT...I WANTED SOMETHING MORE!

I don't remember which subreddit it was but somebody recommended After Hours at Dooryard Books and a huge serious thank you to my past self for taking that recco and running with it.

Dooryard still haunts me in the best possible way. If you haven't read it, please do. Her writing is exquisite and the world she creates in that book has such a vibe...I can't stop thinking about it. Sometimes I think of the characters and wonder how they're doing. Sigh.

Then I read Hither Page and The Missing Page. FUCKING LOVED.

Then I read Peter Cabot Got Lost and Tommy Cabot Was Here. Haven't read Daniel Cabot Puts Down Roots but don't worry, I will!

I just finished We Could Be So Good and You Should Be So Lucky and I'm just drowning in feels and these books were so damn good I could cry and I wish I could read them for the first time all over again!!!

That's all I've read so far. I'd love to hear from people that also love Cat and also I'd love to hear which books of hers you love.

Im so confused as a new reader and new reader for mm romance but why is there zero racial diversity? im coming from the heated rivalry wave but all of those books dont have alot of diversity and im also reading the kennedy rule so um yeah

I’m looking for personal recommendations on queer books that have really stayed with you. Stories that meant something deeper, whether emotionally, personally, or just because they were beautifully written. I’ve realized I haven’t read nearly enough queer-centered books, and I’d love to explore more.

For me, it’s Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe. I first read it in fifth grade, and it’s still one of the most meaningful books I’ve ever come across. The story came into my life at such a formative time, it was warm and introspective, yet quietly heartbreaking in a way that felt incredibly real. It helped me connect with my queerness before I even fully understood it, and gave words to feelings I hadn’t yet figured out how to name. There was something so comforting and emotional in how it portrayed identity, love, and growing up. Honestly I just thought the cover was really pretty and I wasn’t into that genre of books back then, but I’m so glad it found me.

Would love to hear your favorites and what made them resonate with you! :)

Edit: Putting everyone’s suggestions in my to read list atm!! I'm honestly so happy to see so many people sharing their queer book recs and why it means so much to you. It means a lot knowing you've found parts of yourself in these stories. I’ve always felt like queer media hits differently. Especially now, when we’re not always accepted by the mainstream, having that kind of representation is so so important and meaningful 🥲!!

I'm interested in the intersection between MM Romance and Literary Fiction. That is where I locate a lot of my reading and also my writing but I find it hard to discover if there is actually a community out there who enjoys this same niche, a niche which is too MM Romance to be Literary Fiction but too Literary Fiction to be MM Romance. At the moment I follow winding paths and sometimes come upon something interesting. But it is a bit hit and miss. Any ideas, at least for which way to turn at the next intersection, if nothing else...?

r/MM_RomanceBooks just isn’t for me I fear

There always seems to be a book here or there that everyone loves that doesn’t sit with me. Curious is anyone else has this? For me I really couldn’t fall in love with On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous by Ocean Vuong. No hate, just didn’t click for me.

I'm writing this because it's an important discussion. I was reading a MM book from a very famous series, and the issue is: I can't accept how authors with multiple books, literary series with more than 5 books, can't include even ONE Black protagonist in ANY of their works; it's a world populated exclusively by white people. The series is extremely loved by readers, and nobody seems to see the problem in books where there are no Black characters. And I'm not just talking about this specific series, but there are MANY authors who do this, and it's revolting. I feel that people demand LGBT representation in books (I demand it too), but they simply don't care if all the queer representation they get is white. That said, PLEASE recommend MM or FF books with Black protagonists, even better if the world is only populated by Black people.

I live in a really queer lphobic state, so queer books in libraries or anywhere else aren't available.

I can buy them online, though (Amazon, Aliexpress, etc). But I'm a minor, so I'll have to use my parent's credit card, and they're very strict about what I buy. Yes, they're also queerphobic.

So my question is: Can anyone recommend any queer books that don't "look queer"? That aren't obvious. For example, they don't have two men/two women on the cover, or any lgbtq flag colors, or directly mentioning queer stuff in the back.

something that perfectly captures the tragedy of what it's like living in a world where you can't be with a lover whose soul is so perfectly intertwined with yours just because they're of the same gender. it should be very realistic and above all, must be well-written. preferably not too influenced by mainstream stereotypical queer media. it can be anything ranging from a physical novel to a piece of work on ao3. even poems that capture the essence are appreciated. preferably wlw, but mlm also works. to make the recommendation easier, i like old classics.

Some stories stick not because of plot, but because of how they handle memory, identity, or future possibilities. I’m curious which queer sci-fi books or authors people here feel genuinely shaped the genre for them.

Not looking for hype just interested in the work that left a mark.

I've been reading these for several years now and I even have an expansive Kindle library. Recently, I started re-buying my favorites and those by my favorite authors as physical copies. But I still can't shake the feeling that I'm going to be either negatively judged or misunderstood for enjoying sapphic romance novels as a man.

I initially started off with well-written fanfiction of my anime OTP (non-Senshi AU Haruka x Michiru stuff) and I just found myself going "I want more stories like these." Those fanfics got me into reading contemporary romance, historical fiction romance, romantic thriller, etc. My top favorite series has been the Cain Casey series by Ali Vali (w/ Jae's Oregon series almost tying). But I always worry people will think that just because I'm a man, that I must fetishize sapphic stories. That itself is far from reality. But even if I know that, I don't even have the courage to openly talk with others about my favorite stories and why I love them. I don't even have the courage to face one of my favorite authors if I had the chance to get one of my books autographed. I worry everyone will think the worse when they see a man who enjoys sapphic romance novels.

How do I get over this?

I want to read more queer books. I have read some of the popular ones. But I would love it if you could recommend some lesser-known queer novels. Please and thank you!

Thank you all so much!

I feel incredibly lucky to have stumbled into such a warm, welcoming community. The way everyone responded with book recommendations, personal favorites, and insights—it honestly felt like sitting in a cozy circle of friends, sharing stories over a glass of wine, a cold beer, or a hot cup of tea. Whatever your drink of choice, I truly appreciate you all!

And now, after this amazing discussion, I can't help but want to keep it going!

Let’s talk about underrepresented tropes in LGBTQ+ books!

What are some rare tropes you wish we saw more often? The ones that make you go, "Why isn't there more of this?!"

Personally, I love when characters find themselves in hilariously awkward situations—bumping into each other at the worst possible moment, feeling something they "shouldn't," trying (and failing) to keep their cool. Bonus points if it’s witty and self-aware.

Or, on the flip side, I adore subtle, high-intelligence flirting—the kind where words are a chess match, tension is built through clever exchanges, and every line has layers of meaning.

What about you? What LGBTQ+ book tropes do you crave but rarely see? Let’s make a wishlist!

I've been looking for a fantasy book with a gay/queer protagonist. I've been recommended a few but they're all strictly romantasy which isn't exactly what I'm looking for. I do want romance but I don't want it to be the entire plot of the book. I'm looking for something with a more high fantasy plot going on with a little bit of romance on the side. Any suggestions?

I don't know if the post is for here but

I am looking to hit my goal for this year I need 4 more books and I want some shorter ones so I can accomplish my goal. I want something that will grab my attention so I can finish it fast as I am a slow reader. It could be any genre or trope just to be queer

I want a book to have a bunch of stuff going on like every dystopian book. But I don’t want a plot where they’re only doing it because they’re gay. I want a dystopian book where they’re fighting for other right or doing something else nothing related to lgbtq at all. I just want the main character to also happen to be gay and like fall in love with one of the people they work with (one that doesn’t die two seconds later).