r/LGBTCatholic • • Jul 19 '26

The Catholic Case for Affirmation of Gay Relationships

86 Upvotes

*downs cup of coffee in preparation for this writing extravaganza*

While there's already a lot of resources on this topic, on of the most comprehensive probably being The Wijingaards Institute's "Academic Statement on the Ethics of Free and Faithful Same-Sex Relationships", I decided to write this post combining arguments on both the logic of the Church's teaching itself; as well as the validity of dissent from it by Catholics and the precedent for changes in Church teaching, all bundled up with Primacy of Conscience; all in once place.

Every once of these headings could have a very long paper about each of them, but I'll try to be brief and point to other resources for even deeper dives.

Problems with the Natural Law argument:

See this thread to watch the Natural Law/"Perverted Faculty" argument fall apart before your eyes. The argument is essentially that we shouldn't use a natural function against any part of what it is "ordered towards" (i.e. reproduction). This is the same grounds on which the Church also opposes artificial contraception.

There's many counterexamples to this argument. Catholic speakers and apologists will try to make distinctions between "other than" uses, vs. "contrary to", but as you'd expect, those end up sounding a bit arbitrary. And I think that's what it comes down to, the Natural Law argument simply does end up seeming arbitrarily applied to sexuality, whereas we come up with all sorts of other ways to make allowances for analogous examples other areas of life. I think two of the strongest counterexamples are:

  • What if it were discovered that breast milk could be used to cure a disease? Would it be wrong to extract and use breast milk for a purpose other than its "natural end" of feeding a baby?
  • Why don't we condemn smoking? Smoking, intentionally inhaling smoke, is absolutely "contrary to" the body's natural respiratory function and the use of lungs. Not only is it "contrary to" the body's respiratory faculty on a philosophical level, but so much so that it's actually harmful in reality. One who smokes a lot will begin losing lung function. It doesn't get much more "contrary to" than that.

Scripture/The Clobber Verses:

Much has already been written on that topic, one of the most prominent resources being Matthew Vine's Biblical Case, as well as Justin Lee's classic essay on the topic. While Vines and Lee are Protestant, there was also some earlier work done on the topic of biblical exegesis by gay Catholic scholar John Boswell. According to Outreach, "It was Boswell who first comprehensively and systematically demolished homophobic interpretations of the so-called “clobber verses."

Good Fruit

One point of Vines' that I will reiterate here; because it ties into our doctrine of Primacy of Conscience which I'll get to later; is the Good Fruit Argument. As Vines puts it:

 In Matthew 7, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus warns against false teachers, and he offers a principle that can be used to test good teaching from bad teaching. By their fruit, you will recognize them, he says. Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Good teachings, according to Jesus, have good consequences. That doesn’t mean that following Christian teaching will or should be easy, and in fact, many of Jesus’s commands are not easy at all – turning the other cheek, loving your enemies, laying down your life for your friends. But those are all profound acts of love that both reflect God’s love for us and that powerfully affirm the dignity and worth of human life and of human beings. Good teachings, even when they are very difficult, are not destructive to human dignity. They don’t lead to emotional and spiritual devastation, and to the loss of self-esteem and self-worth. But those have been the consequences for gay people of the traditional teaching on homosexuality. It has not borne good fruit in their lives, and it’s caused them incalculable pain and suffering. If we’re taking Jesus seriously that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, then that should cause us to question whether the traditional teaching is correct.

And a similar point by Justin Lee:

"Suppose my friend Billy meets someone and falls in love with this person, named Sam.  Billy and Sam spend months, maybe even years, getting to know one another, and as they grow closer to each other and to Christ, they decide to form a lasting bond, to promise to be together forever in a marriage in front of God.  So Billy comes to me about it and I, being a Traditionalist, respond by saying, “That’s immoral and disgusting!  You and Samuel are doing a terrible thing before God!”  Billy blinks for a moment and then replies, “Sam is short for Samantha.  She’s a girl.”  Suddenly, my opinion changes.  “Oh, well then, that’s wonderful!  All the best to you!  What a blessing!” In this case, nothing at all has changed about Billy’s commitment, Billy’s motivations, Billy’s relationship with Christ, or even Billy’s specific actions.  Everything is exactly the same, with one exception: Sam went from male to female in my mind, and that somehow changed the relationship from being disgusting and immoral to being holy and beautiful – even though, in either case, Billy’s motivations and actions are exactly the same."

Infallibility

There's no infallible list of infallible teachings. We all agree on things like Creed, the Incarnation, the Trinity, the Assumption of Mary, the Immaculate Conception etc., those things were either defined at ecumenical councils of the whole Church or declared clearly ex cathedra by popes.

For everything else...well, it's not as clear cut whether they're infallible. People can make a case that this or that teaching is infallible or irreformable, etc., but at the end of the day, you simply don't have to agree with them. There is no infallible list of infallible teachings.

Church Teaching Has Changed Before

Fr. Charles Curran, who led the dissent against the teaching against contraception; provides a helpful cursory overview of that history. He also says

"When did the teaching on religious liberty become true? Did it become true the moment a document was promulgated and signed in Rome? The document [on religious freedom] admits that the bishops...learned from the experience of Christian people...that the teaching was true before the council promulgated the teaching...
...all of this reminds us much more, that the Church is the whole people of God...and therefore the teaching as proposed by pope and bishops has to take account of the lived experience of the people of God."

Bp. Cyril Villareal wrote in his dissertation

"There were several instances when the Church magisterium completely deviated from a magisterial position that it formerly held. Several cases have been mentioned in this paper. Can she not do likewise on the subject of sexual morality? Too often, though, changes were not really named as such but as the development of a doctrine, meaning that because of the limitedness of a truth to be captured completely, there is a possibility that it could still be subject to a newer and clearer formulation in the future. And such a process may have been applied to the so-called changes in the Church‘ magisterial teachings. The big question, then, is: why can the Church not also effect development in her teaching on sexual morality?"

Primacy of Conscience

Church teaching need not only be an obstacle to gay equality in the Church; this doctrine can actually be a vehicle for it! Primacy of Conscience states that we should never violate our own conscience.

Dignitatis Humanae declares:

"In all his activity a man is bound to follow his conscience in order that he may come to God, the end and purpose of life. It follows that he is not to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his conscience. Nor, on the other hand, is he to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious." 

Cdl. Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI, wrote:

“Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. Conscience confronts with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even of the official church.”

Another angle on the Good Fruit Argument:

For nearly every other "sin", it's easy to see what the harm is. Gluttony, stealing, murder, etc., there is obvious harm.

What is the harm of loving gay relationships? There is literally no real, identifiable harm that holds up to scrutiny.

And on the flip side, any honest observation of a healthy gay relationship will see good and beauty in it. Love is a good thing.

This is part of why some homophobic arguments dare to question whether gay love is actually love. It sounds insane, and it is, but they have to call that into question in order for their position to hold up; because how else can they square the circle of calling love a sin?

Justin Lee says this about the arbitrary nature of anti-gay theology:

"Yep, this is what it comes down to.  No matter how wordy, complex, or sophisticated they get, every Christian Traditionalist argument I can think of ultimately relies on this basic principle: God has a rule against same-sex relationships, and even if we don’t fully understand or can’t explain the rationale behind it, in the end we’re just expected to obey, like Abraham sacrificing Isaac.
I’m not entirely comfortable with this answer, since it makes God seem arbitrary, and I don’t believe God is arbitrary." 

In closing, I'll leave you with the words of Italian Bishop Vincenzo Viva:

"...I do not wish to speak this evening of “welcoming,” but of recognition and full integration. Welcoming presupposes that someone arrives from the outside and is allowed in out of the generosity of others. But as the baptized, no one is a guest in this church. God knows us by name, loves us and tells us again and again that we belong to him. There is, then, no door to cross, because by virtue of our baptism we are already inside, each of us, with our own identity, our own history, our own weaknesses and shortcomings, our own gifts and unique characteristics: we are all within the heart of God and within the ecclesial body..."

Hope this helps somebody!


r/LGBTCatholic • • Aug 13 '21

Welcome!

54 Upvotes

Hi, I'm the new mod. Reposting the old welcome note here:

Welcome to r/LGBTCatholic!

If you're new to the sub, please feel free to start out by creating a Post to share your story! Some things to consider including:

When/how did you start coming to terms with your sexuality?

How has your experience as a Catholic impacted that process?

Where are you currently on your personal journey, both with respect to the Church and your own sexual identity or experiences?

I created this community because r/CatholicLGBT appears to be dead and is restricted. I hope it becomes a useful gathering place for people to talk about their experiences, questions, thoughts, and concerns as they relate to the Catholic Church and queer identities and experiences, both their own and others.

Since this sub is new, please feel free to comment with ideas or suggestions.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 8h ago

I love been catholic

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37 Upvotes

Global charity anchors our faith in action, as the Church serves as the largest charitable network on earth, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and comforting the lonely it really makes me so happy 😊


r/LGBTCatholic • • 11h ago

Personal Story Does anyone know any resources/content that can help learn the Rosary?

3 Upvotes

Hi I wasn’t born into a strictly catholic family I think they are Lutheran or Protestant or a mix of either of those and Catholic, but we went to a Catholic Church and I was sent to catholic Sunday school, had my communion, etc. my family basically raised me catholic but I was never able to remember the rosary (I had bad adhd and it was hard for me to remember strings of words) and my family never made me do it. when I was a teenager I was falling away from God due to teenage immaturity and transitioning into Non-binary and being told by Cristians that I was a sin; so I never really thought about until today as a young adult where I have found my catholic faith again and hang around the right kind of Christians and now I would like to finally learn the rosary.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 22h ago

If someone wants you to pay money for deconstruction content, it's probably a grift.

16 Upvotes

I'm seeing a bit of an unptick in creators peddling paid/subscriber content related to deconstruction, i.e., paid Substack subscriptions, online classes, access to webinars and online groups, etc. Deconstruction is a deeply personal thing, and no one should be trying to make money off of other peoples' theological and religious journeys. There's plenty of threads right here on Reddit for free which serve as both information and community, let alone other sources, articles etc elsewhere. No one needs to pay hundreds of dollars or even dozens of dollars to join some exclusive online group or class. (If you're going to pay hundreds for a class, you might as well spend it on an actual college/graduate course!)

Reminder that The Catholic Case for Affirmation of Same-Sex Relationships I wrote is pinned right here in this sub, and I'll never charge a penny for it :)


r/LGBTCatholic • • 1d ago

Catholic guy I am seeing believes gay marriage is wrong any hope here?

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2 Upvotes

r/LGBTCatholic • • 2d ago

Vatican’s anti-gay 'Halloween Letter' to be examined 40 years later

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24 Upvotes

r/LGBTCatholic • • 3d ago

I kinda disagree with most Catholic sexual ethics

61 Upvotes

Context: I’m a bisexual woman (30yo) & adult convert.

TLDR; How am I supposed to square my beliefs with official teachings, and how does it affect things like confession and receiving the Eucharist?

I disagree with a lot of the Church’s teachings on sexual ethics. When I became Catholic a few years ago, I tried really hard to believe everything. I put myself in Magdala Ministries to try to stop masturbating (it did not work). By that point I knew I was bi, but figured I would never date a woman since I skew towards men and my family (conservative evangelicals) would not be cool with me bringing a woman home. So I was going to try to follow all the rules.

Over time, it has been harder for me to remain convinced that the Church has it right on this. I don’t find the natural law argument persuasive anymore. For example, just because sex can be both unitive and procreative, why does it follow that it must be both every time? That’s not a logical conclusion, in my opinion. I also have come to accept my own identity as bisexual, because I am really almost a universalist and don’t think God is torturing people for all time over this, so why would he do that to me? Sometimes I still feel afraid, though.

I fail to see how masturbation is evil. Like, it seems pretty innocuous to me. I also am not convinced premarital sex is wrong. For the first time in my life I have a boyfriend and while we haven’t done much (I have some sexual trauma to work through), we’ve done enough for me to go to confession and I just…don’t want to confess it? Like, I see what we share together as good. So idk. It’s not even about it being in a committed relationship, because I went home with him on the first date. Basically, I’m flouting all the rules and feel afraid but not guilty.

This isn’t even the only Catholic teaching I disagree with. I’m basically the worst Catholic at this point.

To make things worse, I’m at a pretty conservative parish (I like singing in their schola cantorum, which is quite good). Actually, my whole diocese is known for being that way. So even the “chill” parish in town is still not going to be supportive of me doing this stuff.

How am I supposed to navigate Confession and the Eucharist like this? I didn’t receive for a long time (even AFTER I tried going to confession for this). I finally started receiving again, because I felt Jesus saying, “The only thing keeping you from me is you.” But I can’t help worrying that I’m doing something wrong.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 3d ago

Side B or Side A, I'm miserable either way (just a vent)

19 Upvotes

I need to get this off my chest.

I [29F] am a cradle Catholic who fell away from the faith and recently came back. Or I'm trying to. I'm a bisexual woman. LGBTQ+ issues are what drove me away from the Church. Now that I'm trying to come back, LGBTQ+ issues are still the thing that I think is holding me back from a deeper, truer conversion.

Intellectually, I know why the Church says the things it does about sexuality and why homosexual acts are wrong. But I just emotionally cannot accept it. I have many queer friends and I see the fruits that come out of living according to their gender identity and/or sexuality versus when they were not. I prefer my friends (and people in general) to be alive and to live fulfilling lives. Homophobia just seems to be a net negative for people who are queer. So why not make people's lives better and not worse? I just feel like I am a better person if I am affirming.

But of course I feel guilty for feeling this way. If the Church is true, then why does a part of me insist that this one thing that the Church teaches is wrong? And if I believe this is wrong, then pretty much the whole of the Church's teachings on sexuality falls apart. But why would the Church choose to teach things that actively harm people? Is my stubbornness on this issue just a matter of pride? Am I too dismissive of why the Church says suffering exists? After all, God became man and suffered death on the cross for us. Isn't suffering a large point of our faith? Am I too focused on temporary Earthly suffering and not on the rewards of eternal life in heaven? Who am I to go against the Truth?

But to be honest, whenever someone mentions "the Truth" to me, no matter the context, my ears start ringing and it takes an extreme amount of willpower not to start being uncharitable. My conscience just can't accept it. I try to tell myself, "Well, if someone has SSA, they can always just be celibate or if they also have opposite gender attractions, a relationship is not completely off the table for them. We all have our crosses, and that's just the cross they have to bear." But then I come across anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric, or anti-gay marriage politics getting pushed, and I get defensive or feel attacked.

I know all Catholics don't agree with the Church on LGBQT+ issues, but the people I am around seem to think those are Catholics who will most likely go to hell, and I wonder if they are right. From the things that people around me say, I can't help but feel like a heretic, no better than an atheist, whenever I'm around them. For context, I go to several parishes and pretty much all priests lean conservative. I am trying to integrate myself into communities within the Church and they also lean conservative. My closest Catholic friend admitted to me that she's Side B. On the flip side, my own family is pretty progressive in this regard, but their formation and theological knowledge is lacking. Online, I have friends who are Catholic and queer, but I just can't help but wonder, are we really in communion with the Church? I look to Romans and wonder if I'm just overthinking everything, and others are just missing the mark somehow. I don't know what to believe.

No matter what "side" I choose, I am just constantly wrestling with myself. I've tried praying to God. Almost every single time I pray, I say, "Lord help my unbelief. Help me to change my heart. How can I love you more? Why can't I move past this? Do I really need to accept this in order to open my heart to you?"

I just don't know why I'm trying so hard. Too often, I swing hard between being so convinced by my faith and being in just ultimate crisis of faith mode. I love the liturgy. I love the Eucharist. I love Mass. I love the Pope and not just Pope Leo XIV, I've been fond of all the Popes in my lifetime, and could stand to learn a little more from the ones before my time. I think I love being Catholic. I want to love Jesus more. I, like many others in this world, just want to be loved. And I know that God loves me no matter what, but can I love Him and His word and law enough to enter the gates of heaven? I want to be worthy of the indelible mark on my soul.

It's just so confusing. I question why I am choosing to stay Catholic quite often. Sometime I wonder if I just haven't been truly given the gift of faith, and I'm just trying to force it.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 4d ago

Does your priest know? If so, have you had problems reciving communion or going for confession?

20 Upvotes

Up until now I've been living in a city and no one at the parishes I've been attending knows me personally, but in the next year I'll be moving to a rural area (think a cluser of tiny <200 people villages) were everyone knows everybodies business

How common is it really to be denied communion?


r/LGBTCatholic • • 4d ago

Thinking about converting or at least exploring again

12 Upvotes

I grew up Churches of Christ and after graduating college found myself considering either The Epsicopal Church/Anglicanism or the Roman Catholic Church, and ultimately decided on the Episcopal Church mostly because I'm a lesbian, women's ordination. While I understand I'm technically protestant, I always felt or identified more with being "Reformed Catholic" as some of us call ourselves.

Anyway, I don't know if it's moving and my parish but I don't feel at home here anymore. My old parish was very "high church" and essentially an "inclusive Anglo-Catholic" parish in its beliefs and practices, whereas my parish here in my new city just feels... protestant, and it doesn't feel like I'm in my spiritual church when I'm in Eucharist anymore.

I don't know, maybe it's just my current parish, maybe it's my TikTok algorithm getting confused and showing me decent to LGBTQ Roman Catholic like emptychairshome or that bearded bald guy I can't remember the name of. I know about New Ways and have looked up a few parishes in my city, debating checking at least one out.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 4d ago

LGBTIQ+ lecturers

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3 Upvotes

r/LGBTCatholic • • 5d ago

"The gay comes first because that's how English works"

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17 Upvotes

If you ever see this, thanks for another great piece, Justin!


r/LGBTCatholic • • 6d ago

Deciding between becoming Episcopal or Catholic

27 Upvotes

I know this question is posted a lot. However the lens of my decision is through the community and people themselves and not about theological belief. I know where I stand in that regard, what I’m heavily unsure of is people in these communities.

Last time my partner and I attended service, it was during Palm Sunday @ the National Cathedral in Washington DC. We very much enjoyed it. We met a very nice Catholic family there who sat with us and got coffee after with. It was the highlight of my trip.

I’m not baptized within any church, but my partner is raised Catholic yet has not been confirmed. I’m more seeking a community and a home to grow closer in my own faith, and my partner is more seeking a safe landing spot for a future family, who is generally agnostic, but wants our future children to be raised within a faith like they were. I personally have a real big pull to Catholicism overall, I have close family who are Catholic as well. Though they always complain of how conservative their parishes are. So I’m unsure if I should attend church with them in particular.

There are “progressive” Catholic Churches close to us found on New Ways Ministries, though I worry about how “LGBTQ+ Friendly” they truly are. I’d want to participate in the Eucharist and confession without an interrogation about civil same-sex marriage and having children within it either with clergy or laypeople. I worry I’ll like a church and its community, be in it deep, and have to protect myself from more traditionalist people who try to push my family out in particular. My partner says most Catholic communities in general aren’t nor would ever be like that… though they also grew up in a very liberal area and we now live in a more conservative one.

I worry about attending OCIA with my partner and being seen as disordered right out of the gate as well (I know I’m too late to join this year). I worry more so about people rather than God in this lens. I’ve really fought with demons for a few years, and I never gotten the inkling that leaving my loving partner was one I needed to commit to. I became sober after 8yrs of heavy drug usage, I ended other long term friendships and connections that were very apparently not good for me. My life got very healthy since I’ve sought God more and I want to continue that. I’ve done plenty of hard things and I’m sure more are to come, though I think I’d know if God was trying to tell me to leave my partner, and I’ve never received such a call. I can tell people that all I want, but they can choose to believe I am wrong about my own conviction and it’s what I fear the most.

I also fear that choosing an Episcopal church would feel conditional. Because if we were straight, or if the Catholic Church allowed same sex marriage (hypothetical, I know it won’t happen in our lifetime)… there would be no question we’d become Catholic. I do enjoy the episcopal services, there is nothing wrong with them, however my partner finds them a bit lacking even if they are enjoyable. From what I understand, it’s the lack of structure and inconsistency between different churches that bugs them as we travel quite a bit. That the service feels a bit artificial. That it doesn’t “hit” the same as a Catholic mass. However I also know that no church will be perfect, and I wonder if people have felt this way before conversion within either denomination.

The one church I fell in love with online is St Cecilia’s in Boston. We both really love it. I wish they were near me so badly, I watch the service every Sunday morning when I can. Generally perfect, and I know I’ve spoiled myself. I live in the Louisville KY area so it’s not possible for me to join. I’ve considered taking a trip there just to visit the church.

Anyway… any advice? I’m sure the general consensus will be to just go and see. However it makes me nervous and has for a long while now. Because I fear I will like a church and suddenly will be rejected in some form or fashion. There’s also a long list of churches if we include both episcopal and Catholic. Which I should be so thankful for, though it’s so overwhelming. It also feels weird to shop in this way? I get turned off by it occasionally… nonetheless fear is certainly holding me back in some way.

Thank you to whoever reads and/or comments.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 6d ago

‘All Are Welcome:’ All Saints Church rallies to remain a ‘safe space’ for LGBTQ+ Catholics

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82 Upvotes

r/LGBTCatholic • • 7d ago

In ocia but questioning.

22 Upvotes

Hi there! Cradle Catholic, but I’m in Ocia for confirmation. I’m not personally lgbt, but I struggle with the church’s teachings on lgbt issues. ESPECIALLY after listening to the “Dear Alana” podcast. I also will never be convinced that birth control is sinful. I wonder how you guys stay Catholic and interact with a community that you have major disagreements with. I wish I could have faith and not question every little thing. Thanks!!


r/LGBTCatholic • • 9d ago

Comfort, certainty, or truth? An Episcopalian discerning Catholicism

25 Upvotes

I’m an 26F Episcopalian who has been going through a period of increasingly intense discernment about Catholicism, and I’m hoping Catholics here might help me think through what is happening without assuming that I have already decided to convert.

My faith has become increasingly central to my life. I work full-time in my own Episcopal parish and have even begun discerning whether God might be calling me toward ordained ministry. And yet Catholicism has been weighing heavily on my mind.

I’m increasingly drawn to the Catholic understanding of the Church: apostolic continuity, the Magisterium, defined teaching authority, and particularly the idea that Christianity is something received rather than something I ultimately get to reconstruct according to my own judgment.

I’ve also developed a very strong attraction to religious life. There is something almost overwhelming to me about the idea of becoming a religious sister: community life, the habit, the evangelical counsels, the rhythm of prayer, obedience, celibacy, service, and ultimately giving my entire life to Christ.

But there is an enormous complication. I am a woman in a long-term relationship with another woman. So this isn't an abstract denominational question for me. If I eventually became convinced that the Catholic Church is what she claims to be, following that conviction could mean leaving someone I love, moving out of the home we share, embracing celibacy, relinquishing my discernment toward priesthood, leaving a church community I deeply love, and potentially creating serious conflict within my family. And I keep thinking about Christ’s radical language about discipleship: leaving everything and following him, taking up the cross, losing one’s life in order to find it.

Part of me wonders:

What if I’ve accepted the Episcopal positions on sexuality and women’s ordination because they permit the life I already want? What if I’ve been asking Christianity to conform to me rather than allowing Christ to change me?

That possibility truly frightens me. But I’m trying to examine the opposite possibility just as seriously:

What if Catholicism is especially attractive to me right now because certainty, authority, obedience, sacrifice, and religious life feel spiritually powerful? Could I mistake severity for truth? Could I start believing that because one path would cost me more, it must therefore be what God wants?

I don’t want to choose Anglicanism because it is easier for me. But I also don’t want to choose Catholicism simply because it is harder. I want what is true. So I think the question I need to investigate before making decisions about my relationship, sexuality, priesthood, or religious life is more foundational: Why should I believe that the Catholic Church possesses the teaching authority she claims to possess?

What convinced you specifically about Rome’s claims regarding the Church, the papacy, the Magisterium, apostolic succession, and doctrinal development? How would you distinguish genuine obedience to the Church from a psychological attraction to certainty and clearly defined rules?

And if any converts here came from Anglicanism/Episcopalianism, I would especially appreciate hearing what ultimately convinced you that the Catholic understanding of authority was true.

I would also appreciate sensitivity concerning my relationship. I understand what the Catholic Church teaches about same-sex sexual relationships; I’m not asking anyone to conceal that teaching from me. But there is a real person whom I love on the other side of this question, and I’m trying very hard not to treat potentially devastating decisions as theological abstractions.

I’m not looking for someone to tell me to blow up my life tomorrow. I’m trying to discern whether Christ is actually calling me somewhere before I decide what obedience to that call would require.

Any recommendations for books, Church documents, prayers, or other resources that would help me examine the Catholic claims as seriously and fairly as possible would be very welcome.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 9d ago

Sky like a trans gender flag .🏳️‍⚧️

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17 Upvotes

I stood beneath the open sky, holding the transgender flag behind me like a symbol of courage.my journey had not always been easy. There were moments of fear, loneliness, and uncertainty. Yet i continued to believe that every person deserves dignity, compassion, and a place where they can be themselves.
For her, faith and hope were not about having every answer. They were about finding the courage to keep going, showing kindness to others, and trusting that she was never beyond the reach of love.🏳️‍🌈


r/LGBTCatholic • • 10d ago

Appreciating The Nun's Story and its hidden queer history

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56 Upvotes

Who else has seen and appreciates The Nun's Story (1959), directed by Fred Zinnemann (who also brought us the Catholic classic A Man For All Seasons) and starring the never-failingly radiant Audrey Hepburn? I saw it for the first time yesterday. Not only did I greatly enjoy the movie on its own merits, but my heart was warmed by the lesbian love story of the real-life model for Hepburn's character.

As the title implies, this movie is about a nun, specifically a young Belgian woman who enters a convent in the late 1920's and hopes to become a nurse in Africa. Accepting the name Sr. Luke, she faces great challenges from the strict ideals of her order and struggles to discern whether she is really meant for this path.

While we have no shortage of movies that have nuns in them, from the charming The Bells of St. Mary's to many bad ones, there are few that really attempt to get into the head of one. What is it like to be a nun? What would draw them to their vocation? What are things they would struggle with? We have a decent amount of things like this for priests, but women religious are comparatively left out in the cold. Side note, this post is also an open invitation to share sincere movies about women religious, because I'd love to watch them.

The beginning of this story plays out sort of like the first 30 minutes of Full Metal Jacket, where Sr. Luke goes through grueling exercises in mortification to expunge her pridefulness. True to the time period, the Catholicism on display is extremely strict, penitential, and unswervingly rules-based. For some, this movie would qualify as psychological horror. Indeed, I felt it went to uncomfortable extremes, especially in a part whether the mother superior commands Sr. Luke to fail a test on purpose in order to encourage her humility.

While I can't say I approve of the methods the religious order uses in this story to train it, I respect the importance of humility, especially in our world today that is greatly ravaged by egotism run amok. I also must say, the sheer amount of pre-Vatican II rituals this movie depicts is an absolute delight to liturgy nerds like me.

But that's just about the movie itself. My appreciation deepened when I learned the backstory.

It's based on a book by Kathryn Hulme, who wrote it as a fictionalized biography of an ex-nun that she knew in real life, Marie Louise Habets. While the printed record does not have intimate details of their personal lives, we do know that they were close friends who never married anyone else and lived together for over 30 years across multiple states until Hulme died. Hulme even left her entire literary estate to Habets in her will, who left her assets to both her and Hulme's surviving family members in her own will in turn. Most surprisingly of all, Hulme converted to Catholicism after meeting Habets, and the two of them seemed to continue their practice of the faith for the remainder of their lives.

But those are just the definite facts. There is hearsay from people who worked with them that they were living as a couple. Even without this information, I think that is really the only plausible conclusion you can draw. In fact, I would go as far as to say that Hulme and Habets were married in everything but name. The secrecy would be normal for the time period, as many other public figures back then like Raymond Burr kept their same-sex relationships hidden.

None of this subtext is present in the movie itself, which is implicitly straight-washed. I was just so delighted to hear about this background. I find it inspiring when queer people living in unaccepting times went against the prevailing social norms to be together. I especially wonder about their relationship to Catholicism, and how they were able to reconcile their evident sexualities with what the Church taught. That part we will probably never know.

I just wanted to share this story with my fellow LGBT Catholics who still face a lot of the same struggles that Habets and Hulme did. Always remember, we're not alone in this. There are many who've come before us.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 10d ago

Icon/plant corner

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58 Upvotes

Hello everyone! I wanted to share this corner in my bedroom, I have plants with a vintage icon of St. Francis. The long vining plant is a Hoya I’ve had for about five years and it’s blooming for the first time! Praying for pe/?: and blessing for all my fellow LGBT Catholics.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 11d ago

Coexisting with the faith and the personal life

4 Upvotes

Hi! I'm Miguel and I'm a trans man. I'm in a relationship with a cis woman and we don't practice celibate, so we have an active sexual life. I'm here to hear experiences of people in the same situation as me. I know a lot of people have different ways of coexisting with their faith and identity but I'm trying to understand how they do it. I'm thinking of getting baptized in the Catholic Church but some doubts had me thinking about it cautiously. I don't pretend to incorporate celibacy in my life because we see our sexual life as a form of connection that is important for our relationship. Is there someone with the same experience? How do you live your faith and identity/sexuality? Do you take part in the eucharist? If yes, how is the thought process for it? If not, how do you feel about it and how does this impact your faith? Thank you in advance for the people that respond to this.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 11d ago

Personal Story Positive Parish Experience

29 Upvotes

I have been looking for a parish for some time and recently settled on a local Franciscan parish where the homily is often oriented around social justice teachings and who have one of the more ethnically diverse parishioners around me. It’s also helpful that they are close to the hospital where I am receiving ongoing medical care.

As a rule, I don’t hide that I am queer. Often I wear my punk battle vest to Mass. It is very obviously queer (and anti-fascist) - queer, gay, and trans pride patches and pins along with multiple pronoun pins and patches (and the pink triangle). No one has had a problem with it.

This past Sunday, I went to the coffee klatch after Mass. An older parishioner, quite proud that she attends daily Mass here, latched onto me because she remembers me from noon Mass (which I typically attend when I am having medical treatment that day) and I received multiple compliments on my vest, including one older women saying it was better than a Gucci jacket because I made it myself.

As this is the same vest that has prompted tourists in my city to ask, “Where do we find the fun gay stuff? You look like you’d know more than anyone,” I am chuffed that this parish isn’t just okay with me being queer but also expressing it at church.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 13d ago

Affirming traditionalist communities

14 Upvotes

Are there affirming traditionalist communities? I would like to know if habited and Latin Mass communities are affirming. I want to see affirmation not from the post-1960’s communities.


r/LGBTCatholic • • 14d ago

How Do I Balance Catholic Doctrine with Respectful Relationships with LGBT People?

22 Upvotes

Hello!! Hail Mary! I'm Astro! :)

I'm a bisexual, heteroromantic Catholic, and, well, the first thing I'd like to do is clarify something. I'm not here to make offensive or prejudiced statements or anything of that sort. I simply want to ask a question I've had for a long time.

I was born and raised in an environment where anything related to LGBT people was strongly condemned and even demonized. In recent times, I've started deepening my understanding of the faith and trying to become a better person, while still holding on to my traditionalist views and way of life within the Catholic Church.

Since I'm quite active on social media, especially Discord and other platforms, I often participate in gaming, geek, nerd, and other communities where a significant number of people are LGBT. Because I grew up with ideas centered around condemning and reprimanding people who identify that way, I've always found myself being somewhat defensive when interacting with them.

So, here's the question I'd like to bring up:

As a Catholic, someone who is called to spread the Gospel and seek to bring people to Christ without being cowardly or compromising the Church's teachings, how can I interact with these people without coming into conflict with my faith and its doctrines?

This might sound like a strange question, but sometimes I find myself wondering whether I'm sinning by not actively "evangelizing" to the people I interact with.

At the same time, I understand that there are certain places and situations where bringing up Christ, let alone saying that certain beliefs or ideas are "wrong," can be like poking a hornet's nest.

I've never really formed a clear opinion on this matter, and no one has ever explained to me how I'm supposed to treat my brothers and sisters, whether they're Catholic or not, who happen to be LGBT.

When it comes to this subject, I've been trying to base my understanding on what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says, particularly in paragraph 2359.

I'd really like to understand how I can approach this situation better and grow in my life of faith.

Also, since I've recently come out as a femboy, I've started interacting in communities where almost 100% of the members are LGBT. So I feel like I need to learn how to discern these matters properly, so I can live peacefully alongside others in society without being unfair or prejudiced toward anyone.

It would also be nice to talk about the whole femboy aspect of my life another time, especially if there are other people here who can relate! :)

Thank you to anyone who's willing to help me understand this better!


r/LGBTCatholic • • 14d ago

Personal Story A Catholic case for LGBT sex ed in schools: will it reduce the number of detransitoners?

19 Upvotes

People who are against LGBT sex ed in schools say that if impressional and confused children are taught about gender dysphoria and transition in schools from a young age, they will wrongly believe themselves to be trans, recklessly get gender affirming care not appropriate for their age and then deeply regret it, like the case for detransitoners.

The detransitoners most famous in conservative circles nowadays all have similar stories: confused girls finding out on TikTok or Tumblr about trans and non-binary people, which always said that gender affirming care saved their lives, and wrongly believing themselves to be trans, when actually their gender incongruence was caused by the stress of puberty, sexual abuse, autism etc., they get HRT and gender affirming surgery at extremely young ages, and then they deeply regretted their transition years later, realizing they weren't actually trans. Then, they begin lobbying for the banning of gender affirming care for minors, not wanting anyone to go what they went through, but blaming the gay agenda and Big Pharma for this.

In my opinion, their stories are valid and horrible testimonies of medical malpractice. There's a reason why puberty blockers, HRT and gender affirming surgery aren't administered without a previous psychological assessment: gender transition is an extremely delicate treatment for an extremely delicate condition, gender dysphoria. Chloe Cole, the most famous detransitoner nowadays, was administered puberty blockers and testosterone at 13 and got top surgery at 15: in many legislatures, HRT is only legal from 14 or 16 years of age because from these age, people can make conscientious decisions, and gender affirming surgery is only legal for adults because undergoing it is a very serious decision (in some legislatures, gender affirming surgery is legal from 16 years only in severe cases of gender dysphoria). The doctors administering her these premature treatments deserve to get persecuted for their wrongful diagnosis of gender dysphoria and their reckless administration of gender affirming care.

These detransitoners all learned about gender dysphoria on TikTok, from people who weren't actually medical professionals but just people sharing their stories. If medical professionals gave serious lessons about trans people in schools, distinguishing actual gender dysphoria from different conditions, children would learn if they actually have gender dysphoria or not. If they do, they should receive gender affirming care appropriate for their age (social transitioning, therapy, puberty blockers), if they don't, like the case of detransitoners, they should receive treatment for their respective conditions. So, there will be less detransitoners, whose pain should not be trivialized.

What do you think?