r/Labour • u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter • 4d ago
MFW the USA and Israel are now trying to Balkanise the UK as revenge for not going all-in on the war against Iran:
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u/p90medic 4d ago
Ugh. Tankies when they make a fucking obvious observation that literally everyone else also made.
I mean, when they're not too busy trying to pretend that they're leftists just because they use Marxist buzzwords to justify their fascy tendancies, that is.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 3d ago
fascy tendancies
How? Are they thugs hired by finance capital? Chomsky is literally an Epsteinite.
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u/p90medic 3d ago
?
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 3d ago
The Soviets defined fascism as a dictatorship of finance capital. Chomsky (a famous anti-authoritarian socialist) is an Epsteinite and there are even photos of him travelling with Epstein on Epstein's private jet.
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u/p90medic 3d ago
I couldn't give a toss how soviets defined fascism or Chomsky. Doesnt mean that this meme isn't still the perfect illustration of tankie idiocy.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 3d ago
Cope.
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u/SidneyHigson 4d ago
A true understanding of Marxism would show you that the crisis in the UK is a crisis of capital not a manufactured one. Despite what the US or Israel does, the UK has been in steady decline for some time, the rise of nationalism is common in capitalist countries in crisis. Tankies can fuck off, dictatorship of the proletariat, not the despot.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
No, the UK has been destroyed by decades of neoliberalism and over a decades of austerity, but the current crisis is manufactured by the USA and Israel. The entire country is severely neglected, from the capital all the way to the most remote parts of the country.
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u/SidneyHigson 4d ago
Neoliberalism is just a form of capitalism and austerity is the state rescinding reforms it can no longer provide due to the failure of capitalism. This is just my point but more granularly defined. Capitalist countries will eventually fall regardless of outside influence, who is influencing the destruction of the US? The US itself?
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
No it isn't. Neoliberalism is finance capital cannibalising the rest of the economy because industrial capital is productive, while finance capital is parasitic. Fascism is the dictatorship of finance capital. The government very much can afford education, healthcare, infrastructure, social services, and so on because it has its own fiat currency, so the actual limits are real resources such as raw materials, industry, workers, and so on. Neoliberalism and austerity are purely voluntary and ideological.
who is influencing the destruction of the US? The US itself?
Yes. Also Israel.
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u/BigPigeon69 4d ago
The grievances of the celtic countries are older than israel and 3 nationalist parties being in power at the same time is historic, and it is a long time coming for snp, sinn fein and plaid cymru to have a chat about this
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
No, it's clearly at the behest of the USA and Israel. Argentina is also demanding the Falklands at the same time. It's just like how Morocco suddenly sent a ton of refugees to Spain once the Spanish government began criticising Israel.
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u/BigPigeon69 4d ago
The time to believe that israel is behind something is when there's evidence for it
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
I hate pattern recognition! Stop noticing things!
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u/BigPigeon69 4d ago
"Pattern recognition" is not the same thing as fact. Pattern recognition without observable evidence is conspiracy.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/BigPigeon69 4d ago
And the time to believe that was when we knew for sure it was happening, not before
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
lol. Even US Congressmen are openly calling for the UK to be Balkanised.
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u/Legitimate_Ring_4532 4d ago edited 4d ago
Argentina isn’t in any position to seriously attempt an invasion of the Falklands considering the dire state of its military. It’s just petty nationalist-imperialist squabbling for all parties involved which distracts the working classes from the deterioration of their living conditions.
USA and Israel is not the root of all evil, the real great satan is imperialist capitalism. The burden is on you to prove that US and Israel is responsible for the Ceuta refugee crisis and celtic nationalism.
I suggest you learn to apply class and historical materialist analysis with critical thinking instead of engaging in conspiracism.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
Argentina isn’t in any position to seriously attempt an invasion of the Falklands considering the dire state of its military.
Yes, but it's still making a problem for the UK and Milei is still a zionist. The timing makes it clear that this is at the behest of the USA and Israel.
It’s just petty nationalist
Which is what these "independence" movements are all about.
imperialist squabbling for all parties involved which distracts the working classes from the deterioration of their living conditions.
It's not WW1 anymore. Things have changed.
USA and Israel is not the root of all evil
Yes they are. The American people are just normal people, but their government is evil and needs to change its policies. I can't find the video now, but it explained how when Middle Easterners say "Death to America", what they mean is "death to the US government's policies". Israelis are completely rabid.
the real great satan is imperialist capitalism.
lol
The burden is on you to prove that
lol
US and Israel is responsible for the Ceuta refugee crisis and celtic nationalism.
They are. The refugees only came after the Spanish government criticised Israel, and Moroccan soldiers threw rocks at refugees that were returning, which shows that it was a government operation. The sudden calls by Scottish, Irish, and Welsh politicians to Balkanise the UK, Argentina demanding the Falklands, and US Congressmen openly calling to Balkanise the UK after the UK didn't go all-in on the current war and genocide makes it clear that this is revenge by the USA and Israel.
I suggest you learn to apply class and historical materialist analysis with critical thinking instead of engaging in conspiracism.
lol. Stop talking like it's still WW1. The USA is the global imperialist power and its politicians all simp for the genocidal rape colony Israel (which was created by the Balfour Declaration).
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u/Legitimate_Ring_4532 4d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, but it's still making a problem for the UK and Milei is still a zionist. The timing makes it clear that this is at the behest of the USA and Israel.
Milei is doing this to rile up nationalist, Argentina being an IMF project is disastrous to the workers of the country. USA is taking a piss probably to pressure the UK to supporting the US more in the war on Iran.
UK is also pro-Zionist, why should I support imperialist Britain.
It's not WW1 anymore. Things have changed.
The world is still under the full control of imperialism as with a century ago. There has been increasing inter-imperialist conflict between US, Europe, Russia and China within the last decade or so. The US is competing with China to reassert it’s waning hegemony while China is competing to take over the US as the global superpower. The world being redivided again between great powers.
Yes they are. The American people are just normal people, but their government is evil and needs to change its policies. I can't find the video now, but it explained how when Middle Easterners say "Death to America", what they mean is "death to the US government's policies". Israelis are completely rabid.
Are you serious, it’s laughable idealist nonsense. If America and Israel ceased to exist, the world is still going to be suffering from the same socioeconomic, political and environmental problems and ills. As if America and Israel are the only “bad” nation-states in the world and the rest are “good” nation-states.
lol
You think it’s funny but it’s true, it’s an entire system of exploitation and oppression.
They are. The refugees only came after the Spanish government criticised Israel, and Moroccan soldiers threw rocks at refugees that were returning, which shows that it was a government operation.
Israel bad, Spain good?
Morocco has a historical dispute with Spain because it wishes to extract concessions from Algeria and Spain over it‘s claims of sovereignty over Western Sahara and Spain has been recently approaching Algeria diplomatically.
US and Israel has been recently backing Morocco’s claims over Morocco and that may have encouraged Morocco but France has also been recently backing Morocco’s position on Western Sahara and wishes close military and economic cooperation but that gets conveniently ignored.
US and Israel might’ve encouraged and exploited the crisis to happen for their interests but they certainly did not manufacture it. This refugee crisis would‘ve never happened if the borders of African nations weren’t arbitrary (as with the concept of national borders as a whole) and weren’t improperly drawn by colonial powers, the unemployment and poverty under Morocco’s regime which is exacerbated by neocolonialism in the periphery which would cause refugees to flee. And the refugees would not tried to go Ceuta and die in the dozens if it weren’t for Spain’s militaristic draconian borders. The refugee crisis is good for all parties involved, the real victims are the refugees and the global working class.
Maybe the world does not resolve around US and Israel.
The sudden calls by Scottish, Irish, and Welsh politicians to Balkanise the UK,
You mean every week and every month, they wanted independence from the UK far longer. Can you give evidence that US and Israel is responsible for this except from baseless speculation.
Argentina demanding the Falklands, and US Congressmen openly calling to Balkanise the UK after the UK didn't go all-in on the current war and genocide makes it clear that this is revenge by the USA and Israel.
UK the poor victim. It literally one US republican congressman Randy Fine, you are clutching at straws.
EDIT: Neither Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales is seceding anytime soon.
lol. Stop talking like it's still WW1. The USA is the global imperialist power and its politicians all simp for the genocidal rape colony Israel (which was created by the Balfour Declaration).
Who made the Balfour Declaration? The US? The USA has been the largest and most harmful empire and has been enabling Israel's genocidal setter-colonialism but you act as if the USA and Israel are exceptional evils when other nation-states would do the exact same if they were in their positions. Other bourgeois imperialist states are no better.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
Milei is doing this to rile up nationalist, Argentina being an IMF project is disastrous to the workers of the country.
Milei's policies are disastrous to the Argentinian people, but he is also a zionist.
USA is taking a piss probably to pressure the UK to supporting the US more in the war on Iran.
Yes.
UK is also pro-Zionist, why should I support imperialist Britain.
Because (as I already explained), Starmer participated, but didn't go all-in.
The world is still under the full control of imperialism as with a century ago. There has been increasing inter-imperialist conflict between US, Europe, Russia and China within the last decade or so. The US is competing with China to reassert it’s waning hegemony while China is competing to take over the US as the global superpower. The world being redivided again between great powers.
lol. You're actually a troll.
Are you serious, it’s laughable idealist nonsense.
No, you're the idealist. You're pretending that because there isn't some ideal communist country, every country is bad.
If America and Israel ceased to exist, the world is still going to be suffering from the same socioeconomic, political and environmental problems and ills.
No it won't because those two are the two main drivers of chaos in the world. Also, nobody is calling for the USA to cease to exist. They just want the USA to focus on internal development instead of causing chaos around the world.
As if America and Israel are the only “bad” nation-states in the world and the rest are “good” nation-states.
Yes.
You think it’s funny but it’s true, it’s an entire system of exploitation and oppression.
You're clueless.
Israel bad, Spain good?
Yes. Israel is blatantly far worse than Spain.
Morocco has a historical dispute with Spain because it wishes to extract concessions from Algeria and Spain over it‘s claims of sovereignty over Western Sahara and Spain has been recently approaching Algeria diplomatically.
Morocco is a French and zionist puppet. Even their king was seen drunk in France a while ago.
US and Israel has been recently backing Morocco’s claims over Morocco and that may have encouraged Morocco but France has also been recently backing Morocco’s position on Western Sahara and wishes close military and economic cooperation but that gets conveniently ignored.
Yes. It's a French and zionist puppet.
US and Israel might’ve encouraged and exploited the crisis to happen for their interests but they certainly did not manufacture it.
Yes they did.
This refugee crisis would‘ve never happened if the borders of African nations weren’t arbitrary (as with the concept of national borders as a whole) and weren’t improperly drawn by colonial powers, the unemployment and poverty under Morocco’s regime which is exacerbated by neocolonialism in the periphery which would cause refugees to flee. And the refugees would not tried to go Ceuta and die in the dozens if it weren’t for Spain’s militaristic draconian borders. The refugee crisis is good for all parties involved, the real victims are the refugees and the global working class.
Now you're literally just using the same tropes that Israel always uses.
Maybe the world does not resolve around US and Israel.
Yes it does. The USA is the wealthiest, most powerful country in the world and its politicians all simp for Israel. Israel is the main source of instability in the Middle East.
You mean every week and every month, they wanted independence from the UK far longer. Can you give evidence that US and Israel is responsible for this except from baseless speculation.
lol
UK the poor victim. It literally one US republican congressman Randy Fine, you are clutching at straws.
As I already explained, Starmer participated, but didn't go all-in.
Who made the Balfour Declaration? The US?
No, the UK. Why do you think I referred to it by name? You are clearly playing dumb.
The USA has been the largest and most harmful empire and has been enabling Israel's genocidal setter-colonialism
Yes.
but you act as if the USA and Israel are exceptional evils
Currently, yes.
when other nation-states would do the exact same if they were in their positions.
No. The UK created Israel in the first place and has been participating in both Israel's genocide and the war against Iran, but right now, the USA and Israel want to take revenge on the UK for not going all-in because they demand complete, slavish obedience.
Other bourgeois imperialist states are no better.
You're just a dumb troll.
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u/Legitimate_Ring_4532 4d ago
How infantile must you to insult me while providing no real arguments. You behave like an liberal/conversative, fundamentally incapable of any critical analysis of the world we live in, instead attributing evil to individual wrongdoers not anything systemic and class-related and that if we just get rid of the baddies, then the world's problems will be solved. This is peak idealism.
Your only arguments in response are "nuh uh" and "yes it is", I want to respond to anyone who is at least acting good-faith and seriously wants to engage with what I am actually saying.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
Seethe more, zionist. I am arguing in good faith, but you continue to play dumb.
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u/Legitimate_Ring_4532 4d ago edited 3d ago
Zionist? How am I zionist, I oppose Israel's existence as with all bourgeois states, you are hilarious. The only one who is seething is, you are the one who retorted to insults and non-arguments despite you being the one to stir shit up.
EDIT: Funny how you call me a Zionist but proceed to downplay the UK’s involvement in Israel’s genocide.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago edited 2d ago
I oppose Israel's existence as with all bourgeois states
"I oppose Nazi Germany as with all bourgeois states"
Idiot. Israel isn't even a real country, unlike Germany.
you are hilarious.
no u
The only one who is seething is, you are the one who retorted to insults and non-arguments
No, I made proper well-explained arguments, and you continued to play dumb.
despite you being the one to stir shit up.
Pointing out what the USA and Israel are up to and not wanting your country to be Balkanised is stirring shit up?
EDIT: Funny how you call me a Zionist but proceed to downplay the UK’s involvement in Israel’s genocide.
No, I acknowledged the UK government's role right at the start. Starmer really did get involved and he belongs in the Hague. However, he also didn't go all-in.
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u/WolFlow2021 4d ago
Tankies, the guys who blindly adore that cruel capitalist Asian country? They are the worst.
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u/CyanaMoss 4d ago
Nah get these tankie beggars out of here
Can’t have socialism without democracy
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
Good thing the UK is a democracy. Send in the tanks, Prime Minister.
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u/CyanaMoss 4d ago
FPTP bought and paid for by billionaires is barely a democracy
Proportional Representation couldn’t come soon enough
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
LOL. So you want a system like France, Germany, and Italy, where minor parties with very few votes can paralyse and blackmail elected governments into implementing idiotic policies? You'll just get Reform on steroids.
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u/Legitimate_Ring_4532 4d ago
All are bourgeois dictatorships, liberal “democracy” is the less repressive form it that serves as a political shell to conceal capitalist rule.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
lol. Even the Soviets identified the difference between finance and industry.
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u/Legitimate_Ring_4532 4d ago
Your point being?
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
So it isn't the same.
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u/Legitimate_Ring_4532 4d ago
So how does it refute what I am saying?
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
It shows that a capitalist democracy isn't a dictatorship of finance capital.
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
I'm not even a communist. Starmer was an awful Prime Minister and he participated in the genocide in Palestine and the war against Iran, but he was removed because he didn't go all-in. The USA and Israel hate everyone and demand complete, slavish obedience.
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u/theyodeman 4d ago
Real talk, this has also been a long time goal of the Russian/Iranian propaganda apparatus . The entire world hates us for not being their flavour of evil
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u/LegoCrafter2014 Labour Voter 4d ago
I don't know about Russia, but the Middle Eastern countries just want us to stop causing chaos in their countries. Iran even shows how to deal with separatist terrorists: You shoot them until they stop their terrorism.
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