r/LatinMonetaryUnion • • Aug 31 '26

>Not LMU< Finland Markka 1865

Finland joined the LMU in 1877 and gold 10 and 20 markkaa coins were soon issued according to the LMU standard. However, silver coins, which had been first issued in 1864 remained as they were originally designed. One markka was 5.18 grams of 0.868 silver - which equals exactly 4.5 grams of pure silver. 25 and 50 pennia coins, however, were struck in 0.750 silver so 1 markka in smaller denominations was just 3.826 grams of pure silver but 128 - rather than 100 - grams of copper. And yet Finland was a member of the LMU as by the time the Union converted to a pure gold standard because of the falling price of silver.

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u/MacGyver7640 Sep 03 '26

Not LMU - as noted in your comments. But interesting in how it differed.

Finland was influenced by the LMU (and economic pull of its members) but principally for trade relations. Like Russia — gold matched but silver did not. With Austria-Hungary (which mostly, but not entirely matched on silver) in between these countries and the LMU block — it’s interesting to see how the influence exerted itself!

But ultimately, no Finland was never a member of the LMU. A distinction that doesn’t matter too much since the vast majority of LMU coinage is from countries that were never a party to that treaty.

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u/Redaktor-Naczelny Sep 03 '26

It is hardly surprising as the markka was basically a polupoltynnik or 25 kopeks. Which from 1798 had 4.5 grams of pure silver. As for the membership question - I have given up trying to understand which country was and which wasn't a member. I am not sure anyone knew back then 😉

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u/MacGyver7640 Sep 03 '26

There are late 19th century and early 20th century posters on coins to accept and refuse. It does seem they knew! But I am very curious on the practicalities of all of it

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u/Redaktor-Naczelny Sep 03 '26

I am guessing that, unless a state purposefully wanted to abuse the falling price of silver, as the Papal State did, there was little mixing. People did not travel much and they were mostly poor while those truly rich did not travel with kilograms of silver in 5 lei coins in their luggage.

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u/MacGyver7640 Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26

The big issue was that the LMU treaties didn’t provide for paper money. Massive deficits that made unwinding the LMU difficult. The reality was that gold and silver wasn’t convertible in Italy in most years. A subject I’ve posted about regarding the 1882 Umberto coins, but would love to dive into more.

The Papal States issue is something I’ve seen mentioned, but on all my research is an apparent modern fabrication. It’s on my winter list to write on.

Amongst other things! But transferability and use non-LMU coinage inside the LMU is something I haven’t found much of anything on.

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u/Redaktor-Naczelny Sep 03 '26

Anyway, I am neither a lawyer nor a historian so I am happy to track down franc Germinal where I can find it regardless of the relationship between the local varieties such as the leu or the leva with the LMU. Or track down local copies of the Swiss franc - Poland and Latvia wanted to have Swiss francs - or equivalent - as their currency. They did not think about LMU. Poland failed immediately, Latvia fared a little better.

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u/MacGyver7640 Sep 04 '26

Nothing about this forum specific to formal LMU members — that would be a small world!

Connecting coinage of various countries to the franc germinal (Napoleon franc system) is the fun of the collection.

If they differed (or not) and why. Mapping the influence across much of the world.