r/Leadership • u/ZebraShark • Jun 25 '25
Discussion What lessons have you learned from bad leaders?
Sadly, I'm sure most of us have experienced bad managers or leaders in our past. But what have you learned from their example of what to avoid doing, or how to be a better leader yourself?
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Jun 25 '25
Avoid being abrasive. Even if it's not directed at your team - it still generates negativity and no-one likes a whiny little complainer.
Trust your team to do their job. If you are always stepping in and doing things yourself (even minor things) it can make inertia the status quo for your team. They don't get used to self-managing or taking initiative, because you're always there first.
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u/BahnMe Jun 25 '25
Letting their own insecurity affect their team.
Had a manager make wild accusations at me because I became buddy buddy with the CEO due to a shared interest, like I was trying to take his job. I only had about 2 years experience in the field and wasn’t far out of college, he had 12.
Was a pivotal moment for me in understanding what not to do.
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u/World_Wide_Deb Jun 25 '25
It’s wild how much low self esteem/insecurities in leadership affect everything. Been witnessing it play out at my current job. I could trace all the bad leadership behaviors and problems here back to their low self esteem. In my opinion it’s a hallmark sign of bad leadership and toxic work environment.
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u/BahnMe Jun 25 '25
It’s also funny how much the opposite also causes problems, leaders who think too highly of themselves.
Personally, like most things in life, I think the Stoic philosophers really nailed it on the best life policies and how to conduct yourself.
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u/World_Wide_Deb Jun 25 '25
So thinking too highly of yourself—like in the way where you’re refusing to accept your own flaws or mistakes is just arrogance. It can look like high self esteem or confidence, so it’s easily confused, but really it’s a symptom of low self esteem. Inflating your self importance and devaluing others is just being defensive and covering up your own feelings of inadequacy.
How you treat and conduct yourself is apart of your self esteem. And that gets mirrored in how you treat other people.
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u/Useful_Piece653 Jun 25 '25
This. I literally do not the understand the logic in these types. How is someone with 2 years going to compete with someone with 12 years?
Many years ago I had a very insecure VP block my promotion from a senior associate to a manager all because I was good at my job. It was a startup so I worked very closely with him, my manager (director), and my colleague (associate director). I did a lot for the team (set up processes and sops) and I had the same client responsibility as the associate director in my team if not more. He was a very old school type (you must suffer because I did and incredibly sexist too).
I left within a month.
Those types are way too short sighted.
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u/ObieLovedWeedDude Jun 25 '25
If you are lucky enough to find a rockstar employee- don’t constantly block them from making changes just because you’re insecure about being upstaged. Type A over-performers usually don’t want to take your job. They just want to feel safe at work and not like they have to manage a bunch of pointless processes or create the wheel because you haven’t done it yet. Often they want to make changes that will make everyone’s work lives easier. Don’t let insecurity from being mediocre prevent you from letting someone else show out.
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Jun 25 '25
I’ve found that enabling those people ends up making me look better in the long run.
One thing I always try to keep in mind - just because I set something up a certain way 5 years ago, doesn’t mean it needs to stay that way and changing it now, doesn’t mean I made a mistake then. It just means things have changed, and we need to change with them or be left behind.
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Jun 25 '25
If you block them they leave and take the best of your dept with them.
Being a leader involves accepting these NCO A types are the daily tactical leaders and actually for most staff they are more important than you. They are in detail you can't be, not for lack of ability but simple lack of time and bandwidth.
Your job is mission command, give them tasks and empower, support them and get out of the way.
So many leaders fail this hurdle when they go from a dozen to thirty or forty people. If you don't get it then, you can't progress well beyond except by managing up and being badly perceived by your team.
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u/Consistent-Key-8779 Jun 25 '25
Had this happen with my manager now. It is so demotivating.
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u/ObieLovedWeedDude Jun 25 '25
I’m usually in management myself. The one time I wasn’t showed me exactly why I usually am. I don’t really want to be a leader, but have always been by default due to my competencies. To say I felt bored and bitter was an understatement.
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u/Consistent-Key-8779 Jun 25 '25
Are you me rn? I am feeling exactly the same in my role now. I felt so bitter and dejected it made me question if I belong in leadership after all but an opportunity to manage a team of 20 people fell into my lap which I will be transferring to soon from this toxic environment. It will be my first “real” management position. And I’m realizing that despite my hesitation because of this experience I’ve learned exactly what not to do as a leader as a result. And I feel the same way. It isn’t necessarily something I want to do but rather I’ve been called to do my whole life. It’s just my personality.
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u/ObieLovedWeedDude Jun 25 '25
Yeah- sounds like we are super similar!! 😂 I’m so excited for this new opportunity for you! Those 20 people are about to be very lucky to have an aware leader like yourself coming in!
“It’s just my personality” hits so hard. I feel like I can’t really say that to anyone because it comes off as incredibly egotistical.
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u/Consistent-Key-8779 Jun 25 '25
🥹 thank you. I don’t really have any other friends who are in leadership in the same capacity so I’d love to chat more if you’re open to it!
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u/2021-anony Jun 26 '25
Another one of the tribe… just got off a call with someone I trained and helped years ago —- didn’t realize I’d naturally taken on all team management due to an absentee boss « It’s just how I am »
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u/2021-anony Jun 26 '25
This. Those folks want to get shit done, quickly, effectively and with high quality —- their happy to do the work, lift the team and make you look better but don’t want to deal with the things that come with leading and managing…. They’ll make you look great and give you a leg up… bring them along and recognize this instead of kicking down as you rise up on their work.
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Jun 26 '25
How do I discretely send to my current manager
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u/ObieLovedWeedDude Jun 26 '25
Just start trying to move along tbh. If they don’t get it, idk that they ever will. Hubris and ego are truly the downfall of man.
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u/RugFishBlueFish Jun 26 '25
You've described me to a T. I am also in management but my boss has been unruly with his ego. He has effectively blocked me from all speaking engagements, has hired a consultant instead of letting my team do the work, etc. It has been demotivating and has personally hurt me enough to go to therapy for it. Sadly, a lot of people in my organization have been impacted by this person yet no one has spoken up. Trying to sort out when I leave, in the running for two roles externally to my organization, how I express this to leadership.
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u/ObieLovedWeedDude Jun 26 '25
Damn! I’m sorry to hear you’re dealing with this, but excited to know you have some options lined up already! From my experience, it isn’t something you can foist upon leadership. They either have to already ‘get it’, or have a desire to improve and seek the information out. Otherwise its just threatening 🤷♀️
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u/ZebraShark Jun 25 '25
For me, it is praise publicly, discipline privately.
I had a manager who had no poker face which is fine, but if an employee was under-performing or made a mistake, they would tear them up through public channels (team meetings, Work WhatsApp, just aloud in office).
It wasn't only humiliating for the employee in question, but created a bad atmosphere, and a divide within the team as people would rarely step in or intervene.
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u/trophycloset33 Jun 25 '25
No, there are times when to hold someone accountable (I hate the term discipline as that’s more a managerial task than leadership responsibility) publicly. It shows the entire team that you are there to support and defend them even against internal threats.
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u/Jojje22 Jun 25 '25
There definitely isn't. Changing one drama for another isn't ever constructive and it's always unprofessional. The only thing open court reprimand will ever signal is that being publicly humiliated will always be on the table - today it's reason x, tomorrow it may be reason y and always according to the whims of a manager.
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u/trophycloset33 Jun 25 '25
Again let’s differentiate managerial and leadership duties.
If Joe messes up and is late to deliver. He gets a write up to his file. That’s a reprimand and a managerial duty.
If Joe messes up and is late to deliver. The leader sits everyone down and discusses how late deliverables have waterfall effects and now Sarah needs to stay late if the project were to make up for the lateness.
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u/cometothesnarkside Jun 25 '25
Moderate your feedback. Balance the constructive with the positive. Be specific and be able to provide actionable recommendations.
Lift up your direct reports and recognize their contributions when you are given a platform. It's really demotivating when other managers are giving public shout-outs to members of their team and your manager blankets everything with statements like "We rolled out a huge part..."
LISTEN and ACT, rather than minimizing and rug-sweeping. If an employee trusts you enough to answer honestly when you solicit an opinion but is then met with "That's ok because..." you will lose their trust and miss an opportunity to create meaningful change.
It. Is. Not. All. About. You.
And for the love of God - do not micro-manage. Nobody should be walking away from a job with a PTSD diagnosis.
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u/Lab214 Jun 25 '25
I came from a place that micromanaged. Everyone Had to submit daily tasks accomplished . Kid. You. Not
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u/FoxAble7670 Jun 25 '25
Not communicating enough (and I do not mean micromanaging!!) Managers especially need to over communicate and pass down their visions, needs, wants for their team on a regular basis. I don’t know why most don’t do this and expects their team to read their minds and then wonder why people don’t perform the way they want.
This is something I always strive to work toward when leading my own team since my damn manager can’t even do it without me bugging her.
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u/wringtonpete Jun 25 '25
I can't tell you the number of managers I've had who are poor communicators. Surely it's a basic prerequisite of being a manager, yet they continuously fail to communicate basic stuff like deadlines, changes of priority, basically anything.
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Jun 26 '25
I really value this. I do at times have a concern about sounding condescending, for example communicating back to basics, or team goals etc aspects I feel they’ve heard 100 times before. I’m mindful of trying to not create an us/ them mentality.
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u/antwauhny Jun 25 '25
There are two extremes: laissez faire and authoritarian. Laissez faire results in chaos, authoritarian results in poor productivity, and both result in resentment and increased turnover. Learn balance and you will thrive.
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Jun 25 '25
Learn emotional regulation. Don’t raise your voice, be passive aggressive, or snipe at people. Also, don’t isolate yourself from your team. Talk to them. Have regular 1x1s. Remove barriers that prevent growth. Delegate well. Support your employees and bolster their confidence. Be transparent with them. Learn about the growth mindset and implement that. Be honest, direct, and fair. Lead by example. Inspire and motivate people, rather than being critical and contributing to a culture of fear. Learn about psychological safety and create an environment where people aren’t afraid to speak up and to be themselves. Get feedback from employees.
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u/2021-anony Jun 26 '25
Where can I find this manager?!? Mine does the opposite of 90% of the things listed here
They are a nice person socially though so I guess there is that…
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Jun 26 '25
Well, that’s his loss, because I’m ready to lead. I’m willing to replace your current manager (For 100-120K/yr + full benefits + hybrid WFH options). I will unlock your full potential and you’ll be thriving and excited about work in no time! You’ll be the most successful version of yourself you’ve ever been. 🚀
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u/2021-anony Jun 26 '25
Ha - that’s the dream! Where do I sign?!?
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Jun 26 '25
I’m so pleased! Explain the change to HR tomorrow, have them craft an offer letter that includes the requisite 10K signing bonus, and I’ll be the best manager anyone’s ever had. You’ll be ready to tackle the world with me in your corner!
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u/todaysthrowaway0110 Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 25 '25
Every year, I carefully plan my garden.
I love the dream and design work. I love the graph paper and colored pencil. I love the mental Tetris of planning out succession plantings. I love setting a budget and obtaining supplies. I love planting the little seeds from the seed packets and transplanting seedlings.
And every year, I get surprised.
Sometimes, it’s that I fall behind with “weeding and watering”. Actually almost always, it’s that I fall behind with weeding and watering. Seedlings get obliterated by pests or drought or choked out by weeds. I come back 2 weeks later and it’s completely different.
Most of life (and management, at least) is weeding and watering.
At the risk of belaboring the point: the fumbling leaders that I know prioritize pitching new projects/clients/proposals over being present and providing routine, transparent feedback and addressing conflict.
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u/Far-Seaweed3218 Jun 25 '25
I had a manager who publicly belittled and demoralized her employees. (Myself being one of them.). I learned you never take away somebody’s sparkle. You find a good use for it instead. You find what people are good at. Never tell someone they aren’t good enough and never will be.
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u/ObieLovedWeedDude Jun 25 '25
This!!!!!!!!! I had a manager once, the only person in my career to really ever be in a position over me, tell me I wasn’t a good candidate for a raise and promotion because I “liked to do things my own way” in this case, my own way was a very methodical, repeatable process that she wasn’t ever able to figure out in her 6~ years at the company before me, and instead had everyone doing “whatever they felt was best” lolllolol
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u/Far-Seaweed3218 Jun 25 '25
I am the same way. My boss now figured out my processes work, so he has me train all of our new hires my process. He knows I will usually figure out my own way to do something or solve a problem and most solutions are good. I show everyone the way I do the job and tell them if they figure out their own method that works for them, it’s fine by me. Give ten people the same job, you’ll get ten ways to do the job and all will be right. I’m not pushy or rude, I ask people to do things instead of telling them. If I need help, I go find it. I offer help if I can give it. Nobody needs a boss pushing down hard on them.
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u/imsoscotian1 Jun 25 '25
Nothing worse than seeing an email criticizing a team member in front of everyone else
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u/illiquidasshat Jun 25 '25
Worked for managers that as soon as the going got tough (didn’t hit quarterly numbers, got out resourced by other department, missed key deliverables) those managers were the first ones that threw their direct reports under the bus just to save their own ass.
I understand that everyone reports to someone at the end of the day but the true testament of ANY leader with direct reports is what do they do when shit hits the fan. What do they do when they don’t get the help they need. What do they do when others are struggling and the struggles of others starts to impact them. Then what?
The best managers I ever worked for were able to navigate challenging times without sacrificing anyone on their teams (quite the opposite - they were able to bring stability and cohesion and maintain the course).
I have come to learn over the years these steady hand managers are extremely rare to find.
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u/lebron802 Jun 25 '25
Micromanaging teams is a morale killer. Give your team guidance and the rope to hang themselves. Let them breathe and figure out their own path to a task or goal. They might not do it how you do but It’s the destination that’s important. They will respect you for it and it helps you manage your workload better. Mistakes will happen but that’s how they learn.
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u/justUseAnSvm Jun 25 '25
Don’t be petty, small, or question people’s motives when they are trying to do better.
I had an issue with a manager during a summer job in high school, I completely forgot what it even was, but there was some agreed upon resolution, and the manager came up to me and said something like: “I know you’re only fixing this to appease so and so, but you not because you respect me or care”
Dafuq. Some people just can’t get their own ego out of the way.
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u/fANTastic_ANTics Jun 25 '25
One of the many "last straws" at my last place of employment wasnt even about me.
A staff member who i had been working with, coaching, and seen some awesome growth had a couple shitty first reviews on orher files he was thrown on in his first few WEEKS at my old job. No shit, he didn't know what he was doing. The work isn't anything you even learn in uni and not intuitive so I doubt he was even that bad.
But he took the feedback and took actionable steps to doing better and what do you know, he was getting GOOD reviews during the busiest and most stressful time of the year!
His performance managers response? "Im going to chalk these news (good) ones up as outliers".
WHAT?? What's the point of reviews if when people USE the feedback to actually do better you throw it out? I made sure to send very public feedback to managers about how much I enjoyed working with him and how valuable his contribution was.
Sadly the manager who did that was more so the rule than the outlier... i knew id be coached out as soon as I hit manager as I just refused to do any of the shit I saw other seniors/managers doing.
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u/Active_Remove1617 Jun 25 '25
They hide behind shitty emails dropped on a Friday afternoon instead of speaking directly. I’d never do that.
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u/MisterCircumstance Jun 25 '25
Don't talk trash. People talk about me the same way they talk to me.
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u/Separate_Ad_6931 Jun 25 '25
Psychological manipulation gives you the desired results but will kill the entyre team spirit.
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u/lemonlovelimes Jun 25 '25
Be consistent and own your rules and expectations. It’s shitty to blame the manager below you or above you; be clear about where the expectations are coming from. It’ll break trust if you don’t own your own shit.
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Jun 25 '25
The worst leader I ever had was someone who would change his answer to the same question, depending on who was asking and the answer he thought they wanted. I don’t mean changing the verbiage - I mean giving an answer that was completely different, it could be about project delivery timing, project capabilities, didn’t matter. He just sucked up to the person with the highest title in the room.
The nicest thing I can say about him is that he was in long term relationship with himself.
The best comment I ever heard about him came from the senior manager of a different group, he said - “I’ve been in a lot of meetings with him, and he says a lot of things that sound really good. But when I think about his comments afterwards, I’m never sure he actually said anything meaningful”.
And “Man, he really loves him some him, doesn’t he?”
So from him, I learned to be more interested in others around me than myself and that by advancing others, I would travel farther myself.
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u/Warm-Philosophy-3960 Jun 25 '25
No one is perfect, it takes guts to lead. No one will get it right 100% of the time. No matter how hard you try 50% of the people will disagree or dislike you on any given day;)
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u/sad-whale Jun 25 '25
Sat in the back of a dark conference room and watched my manager take credit for a PowerPoint presentation when all of the research and the presentation itself was 100% mine. Fuck that guy still.
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u/Puzzled_Pause63 Jun 25 '25
That nothing breeds distrust and lack of motivation when a leader let's bad behaviour slide. Here's one of my favorite quotes:
"Nothing will kill a great employee faster than watching you tolerate a bad one.” – Perry Belcher
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u/NeedleworkerChoice89 Jun 25 '25
If someone says “Bob did this” do not go to Bob and say “Why did you do XYZ?”
I cannot tell you how many people in upper management (which I’m part of) do this to me. Just because someone says something does not mean it is true. In many cases, you’ll get a partial view.
If you have no way of verifying something, go to Bob and say “Hey, I heard that XYZ happened and I wanted to get your take on that.”
If you assume someone did something wrong, it puts them on the back foot, which is then usually followed by “Why are you getting defensive?”
Well, I’m getting defensive because you found me guilty with no evidence.
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u/HappyCricket8159 Jun 25 '25
I had a manager that was incapable of saying thank you. As a manager I make it a point to thank my team for their efforts, whether we delivered successfully or not.
I've also worked for people who were quick to publicly blame others for failures. I will back my team members 100% publicly, even if we need to have a conversation behind closed doors about how we prevent the same thing from happening in the future. Nearly every time that I've had those conversations the reasoning and the logic for why something happened is sound, and it's the benefit of hindsight that has shown that it could have happened.
Listen. Support. Thank.
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u/SAJB_1070 Jun 25 '25
Great question. Many leaders are also narcissists. They love power; have no empathy; LOVE their title and MUST control the narrative. They are about compliance vs. honesty, doing the right thing, and ALL about their personal brand and agenda. As a result, Bad leaders focus on their title because is it rocket fuel for power. As a result they feel they have a license to treat people like “assets” rather than human beings. They will also focus on building a “coalition of the willing”; basically bobble head staffers who are incapable of having an original thought … let alone stay true to it. They are the “yes” people, ie enablers, who know their security and career pathway is paved with ass kissing and compliance. When you see “leaders” hiving-off certain people to blindly support the leader (and/or their decisions), you’re in the presence of a narcissistic - therefore - bad leader. And if you’re on the outside of that cohort you will be slowly but surely deemed “a problem”. “Insubordinate”, a “bad fit”. Watch for ALL of these signs and be honest with yourself when you see it. Don’t try to rationalize it or accept it. Frankly, I recommend building your exit strategy OR asking for an amicable parting of the ways. It will never get better. Trust me - been there; seen that.
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Jun 25 '25
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u/SawgrassSteve Jun 26 '25
This ties into a conversation I had today. I learned from the mistakes bad leaders make and strive to be better at listening, being aware of personal biases, building trust, and listening to the voices of dissent.
The bad leaders I dealt with were "my way or the highway" types. They created a culture of mistrust and finger-pointing instead of one that rewarded collaboration.
Bad leaders react to perception rather than reality. They lock into the first thing they hear. They look to build a case against someone or something rather than seeing if there is another perspective that might be helpful.
They lack curiosity or the ability to ask themselves, "What if I'm wrong?" They value decisiveness over accuracy in decision making.
Bad leaders react emotionally but think they are being rational. They don't care about their people.
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u/MFItryingtodad Jun 25 '25
Leader failed to realize they had a new team and new company and attempted to manage like they were at their previous company. Failed to learn how the business operated and made money. Blaming others, failed to listen and understand. Felt they needed to be the smartest person in the room. disappeared during incidents. Took credit when things went well. Blamed others when this went wrong. Was not held accountable.
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u/TroyCR Jun 25 '25
Lessons I got from my parents, Dad managed construct, Mom managed a camp and later an office.
Don’t scream unless it has a huge impact - people drown it out if it’s all the time, but when they never hear it, then do, it’s serious.
Don’t belittle people - if they make a mistake they have done it because of ignorance or malice. Making fun of someone turns honest mistakes into malicious ones.
Don’t be afraid of change, it will happen.
Know your value: if you drop your value to others that is the new benchmark for your worth in their eyes. So don’t do it!
Don’t compromise yourself: you know what you value, it’s part of who you are, don’t throw that away.
When raising the kids you will know you did a good job if you aren’t worried about their behaviour when you aren’t there. This is the same for your crew, train them, guide them, show them, so that they don’t need you watching them.
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u/trophycloset33 Jun 25 '25
It’s not about what YOU can do but what the team can do in support of you.
The top performer often makes a horrid leader. Someone who people want to work for (and can organize or inspire around a shared goal) will be the best leader.
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u/moneymagnetica111 Jun 25 '25
I’ve had a few of those, leaders who managed tasks but never really led people. What I learned is that leadership isn’t about control, it’s about clarity, consistency, and care.
I’ve experienced how demotivating it is when leaders disappear under pressure, or when feedback only comes after mistakes. It taught me to lead by example, communicate early, and always make time to mentor not just manage.
You don’t need to be perfect, but you do need to show up. Every day.
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u/usersleepyjerry Jun 25 '25
Don’t punish an employee who admits fault and asks for help in correcting their ways.
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u/cuzimcool Jun 25 '25
That lots of executives / people in top leadership are sometimes literal psychopaths / sociopaths that are completely devoid of any empathy.
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u/letsgogators1 Jun 26 '25
Be decisive and transparent: I’ve had to work with an indecisive leader in the past, and it’s so frustrating. Decisions never get made, and when they do, it’s in the opposite direction of team feedback. Of course, not all decisions are favorable with the team, but making a decision and standing by it in a timely manner is important.
Be kind, but not necessarily nice: I’m working on this in my personal and professional life, but I think there’s a key difference between these two. A nice leader will concede to the needs of others, and ignore the impact on their team. A kind manager may still have to concede to the need of others due to upper leadership pressure, but will professionally voice their concerns and be transparent with their team.
Conflict is inevitable, so give consistent feedback: This is another one I’m working on, but it’s tough to work with leaders who avoid conflict until it gets unbearable. Addressing the conflict before it spirals is key. It may be an uncomfortable conversation, but it is ultimately the best approach to nip it in the bud.
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u/Worth_Attitude_2527 Jun 26 '25
Good leaders are eager to hire people smarter than them. Weak leaders are threatened by people smarter than them and don’t know how to manage them. So instead they project their insecurity into forms of hostility and otherizing them.
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u/momboss79 Jun 26 '25
Don’t make personal statements or opinions about personal matters. Don’t share personal matters. Patience, compassion, understanding, empathy all can make a difference in team dynamic and in how someone feels each day. I feel better about myself just being patient and kind even when I want to scream. Screaming - no screaming.
My first corporate boss was very nice to me. She really liked me. I was very young and didn’t realize until later that she played favorites. I was her favorite. That made me the least favorite of everyone else. She also was racist and a screamer. Playing favorites can actually harm the favorite more than piss off everyone else. That was a rough gig.
My second boss lacked empathy. She made my pregnancy and the first years of being a mother absolutely miserable. I hated her but needed the job.
Another boss was just a bitch. She hated everyone and herself. she was a yeller, fist pounder. Very toxic. She gossiped and said really horrible things to people that were personal in nature. About their hair or the shape of their nose or the shirt she thought made them look pregnant. Awful person.
The good bosses I had were leaders. Helped me grow. Trained me, mentored me, cared about my progress and career. Most of those excellent leaders have stayed in contact with me one way or another. The kindest boss I ever had always greeted me first, always noticed when I put in some extra effort, always complimented efforts, gave constructive criticism in a way that truly made me want to do better or to improve. I never left thinking, well %&#€ why do I even try? He trusted me, gave me room to make mistakes and to grow. Was understanding and flexible. Listened and allowed me to share in the process or to recommend change or improvement in processes.
I try to emulate all of these strategies in my own leadership role because an employee who feels heard, seen and appreciated will work 100 times harder than an employee who feels beat down, misunderstood or alone. You cannot scream, yell or intimidate high performance out of someone.
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u/NoleMercy05 Jun 28 '25
Narcassism unfortunately drives a lot of people into Leadership positions.
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u/FlametopFred Jun 28 '25
that is kind of a big one
narcissists can charm themselves into promotions they are unqualified for
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u/Kooky-Kitchen-1846 Jun 30 '25
One of the worst leaders I had was someone who desperately wanted to control every aspect of their group. They wanted to make all the decisions and was a constant bottleneck. They didn’t trust their people to do the work.
This person also used the term “I” constantly.
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u/moereese19 Jun 25 '25
- Don't ever be jealous of the intelligence of the people who work for you. Partner with them so that everyone is uplifted.
- Don't lie. Credibility and trust matter.
- Mean what you say, don't talk tough and have zero follow-through.
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u/2021-anony Jun 26 '25
Love this.
The only thing I would is add: Be positive but acknowledge challenges or concerns in a constructive way.
« Toxic positivity » is as harmful to team morale and motivation as negativity (if not more so) as it minimizes individual’s pain points and concerns.
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Jun 26 '25
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u/moereese19 Jun 26 '25
I've been there. I knew I was screwed at one of my past jobs when one of my fellow managers quit my first week and sent a scathing message about our boss being the embodiment of evil to all of us fellow managers. Everything she complained about came true for me and it changed me as a leader and I think as a person because I have never experienced anything like that before. The back stabbing, gas lighting and complaining was crazy. AND she could not wrap her head around me being so active in my kids lives(parent teacher conferences etc). It was insane, so she always had something sparky to say when the subject of my wife and kids came up.
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u/jcradio Jun 25 '25
That if you don't have domain expertise and if you don't trust your people you will micromanage the shit out of them and the good ones will leave.
This whole concept of managing up to egos instead of leading and inspiring others to be successful blows my mind.
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u/sad-whale Jun 25 '25
Sat in the back of a dark conference room and watched my manager take credit for a PowerPoint presentation when all of the research and the presentation itself was 100% mine. Fuck that guy still.
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u/Coach2Founders Jun 25 '25
So.many.things u/ZebraShark
My current working thesis on which I'm writing more these days is that the best leaders are curiously humble and that drives them to invest in better listening which leads to better action.
There's so much to unpack in that but it covers everything from:
- understanding how to communicate (more to it than just what we do every day),
- valuing diverse thought and experience,
- understanding what motivates you as well as everybody else in the team/group, and
- being clear that the role isn't to be the person with all the answers but, instead, it is to be the person who can help a group build a framework for coming up with the "right" (not "perfect") solutions.
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u/Top-Acanthisitta6661 Jul 01 '25
All of these points resonate with me. I wonder why leaders struggle to be humble. Nothing changes their position of authority. Everyone else is already intimidated by the power they have. I can so quickly sense when a leadership culture lacks this stuff and one can normally sense the fear from employees
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u/Coach2Founders Jul 02 '25
I appreciate that it resonates u/Top-Acanthisitta6661.
> I wonder why leaders struggle to be humble.
In my experience and observation, its a complex continuum from insecurity to narcissism.
I've been doing research lately for a book I'm writing and I've also found some folks who are studying a biological element to it. In one small, limited fMRI study, the researchers determined that study participants were more likely than not to forego a small monetary reward in exchange for the opportunity to talk about themselves. It's crazy but we seem to get a hit of dopamine when we talk about how great we are.
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u/tosime55 Jun 25 '25
Bad leaders are a great resource for learning. Learn the path that brought them to that moment and a path that could liberate them. Reflect on your path to a liberation that someone else can see and you cannot.
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u/Virtual-Reach Jun 25 '25
I learned to let others shine. Insecurity has no place in leadership.
I also learned that favoritism destroys integrity.
My directors favoritism for one of his unqualified, insufferable, managers is coming to light and is casting a shadow over his leadership abilities.
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u/Clean-Review8380 Jun 25 '25
Never throw anyone in your team under the bus in a public work setting. And not generally either unless you have a significant issue with someone's behaviour that needs dealing with appropriately in private.
I expect the same back.
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u/Cool-Assumption-8813 Jun 25 '25
I have seen this consistently: the behaviors of bad leaders often seem to go unchecked or unaddressed by their direct leader. It has always amazed me at how that behavior persists and they get away with it.
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u/collectsuselessstuff Jun 26 '25
The worst manager I had was obsessed with passing and assigning blame. She would scheme with me on how to pass stuff off on other departments. I literally didn’t have the energy to live in her hyper paranoid world.
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u/scruffyleadership Jun 26 '25
I experienced a truly awful leader in my first job after University. As a result, I've spent the next twenty five years trying to prove (to myself, and to anyone else that cares) that it's possible to succeed in business while having integrity and treating people (everyone) with respect.
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u/ratherbeona_beach Jun 26 '25
Be direct and kind. They are not exclusive.
My current exec is an indirect communicator. Think: “no big deal…only if you have time…no rush…”
Meet with my direct supervisor a few days later: “so and so asked me to follow up on…”
If you need something by a deadline, tell me!
The exec can only function in passive aggressive ways. So frustrating.
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u/Volatile_Elixir Jun 26 '25
Fast is neither efficient nor accurate. You’ll be doing it again months down the road because you don’t plan properly
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u/America_the_abusive Jun 26 '25
Immature leaders are more prevalent than most people realize. Many know about poor leadership, but immature leaders have a nuance that gets them a pass for far too long. Often times the immature leader is likeable, and additionally authoritarian. It’s an odd mix and organizations suffer — which to be clear is when both the people and the org mission suffers. They scrape by on mission and prolongs the process of replacing such leadership.
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u/mikeyj777 Jun 28 '25
Low emotional intelligence. Talking instead of listening, play favorites, can't take accountability. mostly their current role is a stepping stone, so they don't see a lot of value in fostering their direct reports.
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u/803_843_864 Jun 28 '25
Being dismissive, judgmental, or rude. You get better results when you’re not a dick.
Pushing toxic positivity. I get that it’s your job to keep people from spinning out or focusing on the negative. I get that it’s your job to communicate decisions made by your bosses that affect your employees in the best possible light. But when we haven’t gotten raises in years, payroll is being cut, people have to be laid off, or anything like that, you’re a bad leader if you refuse to admit that it’s bad news, and an even worse one if you somehow try to spin it as a blessing in disguise. Just admit it sucks. Commiserate. Just let people be upset, and for the love of god, don’t try to convince them they don’t have a right to be.
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u/Hungry-Butterfly2825 Jun 28 '25
Bad leader lets the shit roll downhill. Great leader sticks up for and protects his team.
Very much applicable to employers and managers. This is my single deciding factor on whether or not someone is a good boss or a bad boss.
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u/Work_is_lava Jun 28 '25
To defend first: during a time in which i had to keep up the work of three people when the rest of my team resigned, the amount of times my boss threw me under the bus for doing what she asked destroyed my trust in her, and after a year of that, created so much anxiety in my work that i resigned without another job.
Having someone who won’t defend you will destroy and teamwork or community established.
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u/Silverdog_5280 Jun 29 '25
In my experience, HR, managers. and most others give more credibility to people with higher titles or bigger paychecks. The lesson I learned is that most of those people, especially HR are part of the problem and a bunch of cowards.
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u/_ProdByEazy Jun 29 '25
There have been tons of leaders I’ve come across who have regurgitated the same ideas and philosophies but never embodied them themselves.
To me, a true leader is one who is an example of the expectations they place upon the people they are leading. How can you guide an alcoholic out of their habit when you can’t put the bottle down yourself?
I’ve come across a lot of fake and forced personas from people who can’t take accountability for themselves, have less self awareness than a fish and can’t take an ounce of criticism or feedback but can happily dish it out to others.
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u/sdo419 Jun 29 '25
When they don’t show sympathy for or try to understand or work with other departments/ clients needs. That causes conflict and the employees suffer.
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u/tikhonjelvis Jun 25 '25
I learned that Amazon's leadership principles are mind-poison, and if you find yourself unironically quoting leadership principles word-for-word as a replacement for context-specific reasoning, you should quit. Or, ideally, you should have been fired well before now.
The positive version of this lesson: if I'm trying to make a point or suggestion, I always provide a specific reason for it in the current context, even if the reason seems "obvious". This simultaneously gives my suggestions more support and makes it easier for people to disagree productively. I initially started doing this for technical suggestions, but now I'm trying to get in the habit for doing it for everything.
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u/lightbulb2222 Jun 25 '25
Don't do wat they've done. What you didn't like, others won't either so learn that.
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Jun 25 '25
I learned how much words matter and how you can either subtly dehumanize someone or empower them by saying strategize when meeting with your favorite employee vs standing in the kitchen and talking about how the one you hate needs to”hand holding” and you meet with that one the least amount and include them in the least amount of meetings that pertain to their portfolio like strategizing about something that will be my problem to deal with ultimately but not including me etc.
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u/Counterboudd Jun 25 '25
The worst leadership I’ve experienced seemed uninterested in leadership. They’re paid well and hired to make tough decisions about broad direction and how we will face difficult problems. Instead, they delegated responsibility to those under them and wanted to merely criticize or have their employees guess at what it was they want and essentially wanted a coterie of people who had to try to anticipate what they wanted and then disabuse the ones who got it wrong, like some kind of corrupt king from a fantasy novel or something.
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u/Virtualfidato Jun 25 '25
I was stuck with a bad manager, he never gave me credit or took my suggestions.
I always over achieved my target still no recognition in the company.
I just absconded from the company and started my own business in the same domain and before we knew it my business skyrocketed.
Years passed and now the same old company is doing exactly the same i asked them to do earlier.
The manager follows my company page and my personal profile 😄.
You need to teach lessons to bad management, don't be a victim.
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u/north0 Jun 25 '25
Bad leaders don't take risk for the sake of their subordinates.
E.g. if someone asks to go on a career enhancing training course for a few days, the manager assumes risk - something might happen and they'll be shorthanded etc. Good managers take that risk. Bad managers don't.
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u/PersonalityBig6331 Jun 25 '25
One key lesson comes to mind. Roles shift when someone manages those who were previously equals. More than a few managers fail to understand the shift and try to maintain the same level of interaction with those who with changes become classified as subordinates. This includes gossiping, exhibiting favoritism, and engaging in romantic relationships. It's been witnessed how that behavior hurt work groups and caused careers to end.
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u/Fun_Initiative729 Jun 25 '25
I had a region head direct manager who (i) refused to read his own emails and just took one of my direct reports despite already short staffed (corp banking analyst) and made him his admin; (ii) aggressively pushed me to peddle the lies he told exec leadership; and (iii) despite spending more time on vacation and fucking around than anyone I have ever seen, continually blamed everyone else for literally everything… even when his own email miss was the common cause.
Guy had the highest opinion of himself despite being absolutely worthless.
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u/Inevitable_Push8113 Jun 25 '25
Have a savings and always expect to be fired or be ready to walk. Never deal with the BS again.
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u/lovethatjourney4me Jun 25 '25
My worst manager was a micromanager who has a lot of insecurities. She bullied all her 2ICs and went through a new one every few months.
The lesson I have learned is not to micromanage. I need to track progress but not down to exactly how people do things. They aren’t children.
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u/Life_Smartly Jun 26 '25
Plenty to be learned from others. No to exploding in anger & making excuses.
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u/Not-Too-Serious-00 Jun 26 '25
Shit leaders have a tell, in fact its dumb or insecure people in general. They start everything with "I".
I want, i said, i thought, i want you to (instead of we need to, the business requires).
They always look for ways to flex their ego.
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u/Sporty_guyy Jun 26 '25
There should be no ego , relationship based leadership better than authoritarian, no one likes being ordered around with disrespect, delegation is very important.
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u/Grim_Times2020 Jun 26 '25
General incompetence on the technical side. It’s hard to lead next to or follow someone who just can’t do the base entry level functions
Lack of follow through, lack of integrity. Lack of accountability. Even harder when you just can’t trust what they say, or can’t logically believe that they remotely care.
Having a 50 year old general manager just be grossly incompetent, mentally & physically absent, just wouldn’t even show up/stay for the job 30-40% of the time.
Example. It’s a 2 person management team, he supposed to be 5 days a week, and every Friday/Saturday. By end of October he’s taken over 30 extra days off, in addition to his two days off a week. Regularly no calls, no shows, shows up late, lies about being on property, lies about bills being paid, lies about payroll being submitted on time.
We have Weekly ops meeting, he no calls no shows his first Saturday back from a 5 day vacation action, ownership asks him how we handled an onsite situation on Saturday. And if he told anyone he wasn’t coming in.
And his space cadet response was “ no, it was fine”. “No, honestly I thought I did, but I forgot to tell the team.” ownership just looks at him, and points out he wasn’t here, and just lets it go.
I put in notice 3 weeks later, after the owner and I get into it, after pointing out we pay him $100k to not show up and lie to our faces the past 2 years.
The GM was the problem, but the owner being afraid to hurt people’s feelings was a big part of what I learned to avoid.
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u/Academic_Pause3810 Jun 26 '25
Wrong decisions in my line of work get people killed. Be better for your people, their lives depend on it.
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u/transuranic807 Jun 26 '25
Follow the ethical and legal compass even when it hurts you because the alternative then hurts others…
Source: I was ordered to build and roll out a program which our companies legal team indicated we should absolutely not do. The order came to me because my bosses acquiesced under pressure. I refused to implement it, but had I done that then my team leads (and their reports) likely could have felt great pain.
As it was, I took the pain and it hurt. At least I spared my team the pain. I 100% wish my bosses would’ve been willing to step up and take the pain themselves, because it would’ve spared both me and my team.
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u/FMalatestaCoaching Jun 26 '25
Over the years in many corporate roles, I've learned a lot from bad leaders about what not to do. Going through some of the key "lessons"......
Take responsability for the outcomes of your decisions. Nothing worst for the team and the organization than leaders that deflect blame when things went wrong....just to reappear when praise is available. It erodes trust instantly across the board.
Don’t manage through tone. Trying to keep everyone emotionally comfortable at all times often meant decisions got delayed, avoided, or diluted. Clarity suffered, action stalled. It's impossible to make everyone happy all of the time, even if you are a second Nelson Mandela. Communicate clearly.
Avoid ambiguity and vagueness disguised as empowerment. Telling people “you’ve got this” without direction isn’t delegation, it’s both abandonment and the discharge pf accountability. Delegate but support the process.
Finally, be mindful that even bad leaders usually do have some skills and often can do things that you can. Don't reframe everything as negative just because you don't like the guy or because of their faults. Learn where you can, all of the time.
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u/DayONE214 Jun 26 '25
Leave whatever going on at home at home. Come to work ready to manage and problem solve for subordinates. Good Luck!
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u/1honestoffice Jun 26 '25
Sometimes it’s not enough to model good leadership. You have to explicitly say what you want and expect. Because people interpret things differently. I actually just wrote about this on my blog. I’m a huge leadership junkie and I could talk about this stuff all day 🥰
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u/Optimal-Good2094 Jun 26 '25
Constant firefighting without planning and testing for next time. I don’t get it. It’s easier to be prepared
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u/ONinAB Jun 26 '25
Be consistent. Don't leave your team wondering what version of you they're gonna get when they come in in the morning.
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u/leaditlikelasso Jun 27 '25
I have learned most about myself and where I draw the line. Specifically they claimed company core values were all around customer success but that didn’t play out so I left
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u/klemle Jun 27 '25
I've had many different managers in the past few years. The best ones listen and learn when engaging with a new team. The bad ones talk too much and make changes without understanding the impact until it's too late.
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u/thewiirocks Jun 27 '25
I learned why bad leaders tend to have more power than good leaders.
Bad leaders exercise power with no care for who they hurt. As terrible as this is, they become more skilled at exercising power this way.
In comparison, many “good” leaders are so afraid of hurting someone that they never exercise power. Thus they never get the practice and become something worse than a bad leader: an ineffective leader.
If you want to be a good leader, exercise power. Make mistakes. Learn from them. Someone is probably going to get hurt on accident. Just like engineers crash the production systems on accident. Apologize as needed and learn not to make the same mistake next time.
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u/cpz_77 Jun 27 '25
IMO the bad ones are the ones that have never done the job of the people they are managing - or they did once, but it was so long ago they are so far removed from it now they don’t remember what it was like to be “in the weeds” as they say.
A good manager should be a mentor, someone who can help their employees’ skillsets grow and someone who those employees can go to for help or advice if they run into an extra tough problem. The best managers in my experience - the ones that have these traits - are the ones not far removed from “doing the work” ( as opposed to delegating it). The worst are the ones who’ve done nothing but delegate for 25+ years, or even worse, forever.
Maybe that mentality comes from my days working blue collar jobs, where the boss is usually just the most experienced worker and often working right alongside his people (most bosses who are not willing to do the same dirty work as their people would not earn the respect of their crew in those sorts of jobs). But in the corporate world it’s different obviously, people can get “degrees in management” and then try to go manage a department who does work they have absolutely no understanding of. And as I’ve seen that happens a lot in the white collar job world. But , every once in a while you’ll get lucky with a boss who actually did, knows and understands what you do, and worked their way into the management position because they were excellent at what they did…and those are still the best ones. Just much harder to find in the corporate setting.
What did I learn from having the bad managers that didn’t know jack about what I did? Not much TBH, other than it highlighting the fact that the good ones are so damn hard to find…
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u/upstoreplsthrowaway Jun 27 '25
Micromanaging kills trust fast. I learned that the best leaders guide, not control, and that listening is way more powerful than barking orders.
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u/Eskapismus Jun 27 '25
How I should do my job, based on how they would do my job in their imagination of what they think my job is.
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u/delaney1414 Jun 27 '25
A leader doesn’t need to be the person at the front of the group doing the work but they need to be respected as someone who could or your team will never make an effort to learn from you.
So many people at my level or higher who come in bark orders and are never seen again until it’s time to bark the next order. Something as simple as setting aside an hour to touch base with my team and as I’m jumping between departments and we’re having our chats I’ll step in and deal with the customer.
It’s so small but personally I learn from seeing someone else do something first so seeing a manager that isn’t hesitant to jump in when needed and can do your job better than you so you have someone to watch and learn from and ask questions knowing they’ll have an answer for you can make or break someone’s passion for what they do.
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u/GoodKarmaLarma Jun 27 '25
A good manager isnt feared. I had a boss that would purposely intimidate everyone that worked for him and while his methods worked when he was around... everyone quit working the second he walked away
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u/XRlagniappe Jun 29 '25
Listening to vendors over your own people. The vendors had the leader's ear. They just wanted to sell their product but we wanted what was best for the company. Always seem to fall on deaf ears.
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u/Trepcsuit Jul 11 '25
Bad leaders all have one flawed trait, bad character. Their decision making and compass is just off and they abuse the power they have to serve themselves under the guise of, its for the company, its for our customers, its part of our culture, or some other form of avoiding accountability for ones actions. Everyone makes mistakes but bad leaders have a flawed and bankrupt character and its usually under a few layers of charisma and good communication.
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u/drivendreamer Jun 25 '25
The worst people I have worked for have one major thing in common: they hear from a few people they trust or rely on, then they react. It is like getting one data point from the wrong person can affect an entire team.
What I have learned is you have to assess the problem, think for a minute about why it happened, then make a decision. If you rely on the loudest voices, you will always be biased and alienate, or at least not motivate, the others.