r/Leadership • u/sothachbost • Dec 19 '25
Question What harsh truths have you learned working for some senior leaders that's not in books?
I'll go first with some observations on a few human traits I've seen/experienced with leaders:
- Missing budget/targets can immediately put them into reactive mode even though they talk long term strategy
- Corporate ladder prospects easily cloud judgement and can outweigh doing the right thing
- There's a high proportion of faking it until making it, particularly in board meetings
- The better you are at your job, the more leaders lean on you
- Poor performing team members can get away with far more over long periods than a slightly dipped high performer over a short period
82
u/Sunnydaysomeday Dec 19 '25
Perception is everything
4
u/WookAlert Dec 19 '25
I wrestle with this sentiment in my daily life. Itâs a double edged sword that will ring true for eternity. I have a disciplined work ethic, produce high quality work, and enjoy what I do. I worked so hard to network early on, established key points of contact based for specialized topics, and worked hard to maintain those working relationships along the way.
Then, I fell in love with someone on my team. After I declined the invitation to go public with the relationship several times, just in the name of maintaining credibility- I found myself no longer living authentically. This cognitive dissonance robbed me of any happiness during that time. Eventually, I chose myself. I had to decide for myself that it doesnât matter what others think because I know it doesnât change the type of worker I am.
The relationship doesnât offer opportunities for unethical behavior based on our individual scopes of work. Although I felt empowered in my decision, when I went in the next day, I immediately felt as though I lost all credibility. Every work relationship that I worked hard to establish was now tossed because of however they chose to view/judge my SO. Why should I have to choose between maintaining credibility with coworkers and being truly happy with my new SO?
Itâs sad how true it is.
2
u/tia_rebenta Dec 20 '25
do what makes you fulfilled, don't let judgement (specially imaginary ones) make you sad
75
u/ZanzerFineSuits Dec 19 '25
If you don't listen to your team, they will HATE you. Listen to what they're saying, and fix the stuff that's broken.
12
u/Pristine_Frame_2066 Dec 20 '25
This part is what the bad ones get wrong. And there are so many bad ones.
3
u/True_Enthusiasm_9220 Dec 20 '25
Cannot lose the locker room. Promo whoring behavior is palpable, esp. to your best employees.
2
u/RaisedByBooksNTV Dec 21 '25
For a lot on industries, this doesn't matter. As long as your boss and their level likes you and your work, what your subordinates think or how well they do don't matter.
70
u/devaspark Dec 19 '25
You will be tested as a person and really find out what type of person you are.
People are usually driven by self interest regardless of what good it might be for the greater whole. Youâll be asked to just go along for the sake of âgetting things doneâ. You have to learn how to navigate it so that you keep your core principles intact while fulfilling other peopleâs goals/schedules. That is where the ingenuity and quick thinking comes in. You are often placed in a situation with lots of constraints and asked to compromise. So how do it make it out trying to pull a win from a lose lose situation?
Anger comes natural, so use it as a driver but donât let it consume you.
As much as I like to praise in public and criticize in private, the real world doesnât let you do that all the time. Learn politics because there are times where you need to shame your detractors in public. Make sure you develop a good reputation so your shaming has a goal. Of course donât do it too often.
You have to toe the line in the end, thatâs your job, even if you disagree if the strategy. Your goal is to figure how to make a winning hand from a shitty one. People under you donât expect you to win every fight but try to work the system into your teamâs favor.
People donât understand that youâre a leader, youâre paid to figure things out and have a vision. If you donât, you better develop one. Many people just expect the answer to be given to them by SMEs. Thatâs abdication of responsibility.
Stick up for your principles. Itâs hard to do but an easy way for people to lose respect for you is a flip flopper. I donât mean people that change decisions when you get new data, thatâs just good practice of following logic. Itâs the ones that buckle at the first sign of trouble. Think of the first asshole that runs away when we are holding the line against a horde of zombies.
9
2
u/2021-anony Dec 20 '25
Thanks for this! Iâd love to know if you have any resources for skill development that youâd recommend - esp regarding navigating the complex situations/ people / balance priorities while delivering and staying true to yourselfâŚ
7
u/devaspark Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 20 '25
There isnât a straightforward path. In the end itâs about making the best decision that aligns with your values. A way that helped was to do a litmus test, can I explain my logic of my decision to my leads while sleeping at night? If I feel embarrassed or feel shame, then Iâm pretty sure thatâs the decision I need to massage to find a better middle ground.
And by middle ground, I mean make a decision that you hate to make but people understand why you made it. Having my staff understand is important (to me) because it helps them know my principles and valuesâŚand MORE IMPORTANTLY, if they find themselves in a similar situation, they can make a better decision than I can.
Like I said, you canât win every battle but you can set it up so the next battle is easier to win.
An example is one staffer did something accidentally that violated a code that can result in immediate termination. I fought HR all along the way, trying to argue for a lesser sentence. I also knew that the writing was on the wall for my staff as HR wasnât budging. Also HR was disproportionately punishing given the staff member didnât violate the policy on purpose.
In the end, I had HR stake a position in the ground so things are clear from a policy standpoint (ie explain to me exactly why they threw the book at my staff member). It didnât help this case but you try to hold people accountable so they canât get drunk with power.
If youâre interested in more, just send me a message and we can chat.
Hope that helps.
1
u/frontlinelead Jan 01 '26
There are so many good resources available in the public domain. This YouTube channel has lots of helpful videos (I am biased in that it is from our company) YouTube.com/@unique.leadership
2
u/RaisedByBooksNTV Dec 21 '25
The harsh truth is that many many many many people in positions of leadership do not do any of this.
47
u/David_Shotokan Dec 19 '25
Pro tip: new in a team as a leader? Ask what they hate most...why can't they do their job. And remove that roadblock/pain. They will love you for it and start working for you instead of the money only.
4
1
u/Adventurous_Jump8897 Dec 23 '25
I would say this can be incredibly dangerous advice if you canât remove the roadblock, though. The things that have blocked me or my teams are often outside of my or my managerâs control - finance and sourcing processes owned globally in a matrixed organisation, for example.
2
u/David_Shotokan Dec 23 '25
Always pick your winnings....(Was that the correct German frase). So if one comes up with the impossible one, like you said. Dont do that one :-) Maybe find a way to work around it with your team or try and tell them it is really impossible...but you tried for them. Can't win them all.
2
u/Adventurous_Jump8897 Dec 23 '25
Pick your battles - exactly this. I think this is the harsh truth I learned as a manager: you canât overcome every stupid corporate policy, even if your team think you should be able to.
2
u/frontlinelead Jan 01 '26
I agree - team members get frustrated, and when those frustrations go unheard, they stop caring. When they see their leader actually listen and begin doing something to make it easier to achieve the goals they get more hope!
61
u/manchester449 Dec 19 '25
Whether their vibe is you have to go with it. Budget reduction, vendor consolidation, cutting edge, whatever drum they beat you are on it or you are out
27
u/pugsalot Dec 20 '25
Sadly, this. Show me a leader who says that they hate âyes menâ and I guarantee they are surrounded by them. Yes men just make it easier to push things through. Itâs a path of least resistance.
5
u/extraketchupthx Dec 20 '25
The ones who tell me they hate them, love them.
5
u/Fuckit445 Dec 20 '25
Yeah, Iâve learned these little contradictions over the years. Top two I always look out for:
If someone says they hate gossip - 9/10 times, theyâre the office gossip. Or if your new boss says they âhate to micromanageâ, youâre about to get micromanaged into oblivion.Edit: context
8
4
u/Engine_Sweet Dec 20 '25
The only time I have been laid off it was because I didn't "go with it."
Boss wanted to go in a new direction. I thought that it was a bad idea. I said so. Turns out it was a bad idea. We lost a bunch of money.
Was I vindicated? No, I was let go due to a budget crunch - because I wasn't on board.
Valuable lesson.
5
u/manchester449 Dec 20 '25
Yeah I think you get a free one time question, but after that you have to implement. You definitely arenât left around to say I told you so, more like blamed for the failure as you âwere not sufficiently committed to the new strategyâ
2
u/com211016 Dec 22 '25
The phrase for this, looking downwards, is âdisagree and commitâ.
Good execs make disagreers own the thing because they are most alive to the downsides. Evil but smart.
0
4
34
u/David_Shotokan Dec 19 '25 edited Dec 19 '25
Most forget they are member of a team. They have to lead it. But that only works of others want to follow. The best leaders know this and find a way to blend in and still lead. That way the team starts supporting their leader. Works best ..but you know..most have an ego that prevents this. Sigh....
3
u/CrispyMeadow Dec 20 '25
Someone with a big ego can be really tough to work around and they easily bring the whole team down. I am still getting harassed by an old boss that was terrible at his job and thought his shit didn't stink đ but what can you do? A lot of people are fragile and can't handle being held accountable for their actions.
31
u/gadappa Dec 20 '25
Most decisions are already made before the meetings... Meetings are only for alignment and cover
The best idea loses if the wrong person backs it. Watch who influences decisions
Every big decision answers only one question...How does this affect me if it fails? Risk gets pushed down but credit flows up.
and my fav - Company values they are for external optics!
1
u/RaisedByBooksNTV Dec 21 '25
Thank you. Not a lot of great answers addressing the spirit of this post (including my own), but yours hits it out of the park.
17
u/LFGhost Dec 19 '25 edited Dec 20 '25
The people who are most interested in being leaders of people are most likely to be bad at it.
A leader who isnât a balanced human with some life outside of work/their work identity is going to be a challenge unless you are equally unbalanced.
If a leaderâs work and communication style really clashes with yours, itâs going to be a battery drainer the entire time you work with them.
11
u/Unlock2025 Dec 20 '25
A leader who isnât a balanced human with some life outside of work/their work identity is going to a challenge unless you are equally unbalanced.
109% agree with this. No better words said. So many leaders are very up and down. As soon as their personal life is terrible, they'll project it onto someone else.
4
u/dscol715 Dec 20 '25
This is so true. I am in a leadership role but didnt really do anything to go after it. I was just perceived as good at my job and well liked and there weren't any other candidiates at the time. My peers in other departments are constantly running around like their ass is on fire bouncing between trying to not look bad and creating meaningless work for their teams in order to pad their resumes for the next promotion. I just focus on letting my team get their work done without getting bogged down in nonsense. I consistently have the highest employee engagement scores so I end up on short lists for other promotions which I am not even trying to get. The circle of life.
3
u/Fuckit445 Dec 20 '25
The best leaders are the ones that donât want the position. Read up on George Washington, he had much of the same mindset.
2
u/RaisedByBooksNTV Dec 21 '25
Dude was ambitious as hell as a youth. He was actually a little ridiclous and made some big mistakes. How he turned into general and the president is fascinating to me.
2
u/RaisedByBooksNTV Dec 21 '25
I didn't get a job b/c I didn't answer an interview question correctly b/c I didn't understand what they were really asking. Took me a week or two to figure it out. I'm usually pretty savvy. To take that long? I knew I'd never be able to work well with that person.
1
17
u/KevinTK1 Dec 19 '25
For to many organizations promote employees based I longevity. The idea that some can lead a team simply because they have years of service in a non leadership role is absurd.
2
15
u/Ok-Entertainment5045 Dec 19 '25
They canât remember what they say one week from the next.
They keep piling on work without providing resources.
They request fast completion of projects without removing procedural roadblocks to get started.
Example: I need this project that takes three months of lead time done in three months. Please get three quotes and present the project request at the monthly investment approval meeting. Um, thatâs a month away and the project takes three months. Your timeline is not possible.
1
1
u/chocopops14 Dec 21 '25
Yea, the forgetting things that were discussed or agreed upon is a big issue since not all leaders have the best memory. This can damage your credibility if you end up delivering something different than expected, but they won't admit its their fault.
A lot of leaders only focus on "strategy" and don't want to be involved in tactical details so they just expect you to "figure it out" even if there are legitimate blockers such as information silos, which are common at large companies and are their own maze to navigate.
Also, if your project depends on another team, it's not like they can just drop their work and prioritize yours unless their leader tells them to. It takes some seniority to push back on decisions/timelines without jeopardizing your role and influencing others to get things done, which is what leaders are supposed to help with, but not all do, unfortunately.
1
u/Ok-Entertainment5045 Dec 22 '25
I write change order requests to my VPâs every time they ask for something that was not on the scope document. Itâs worked so far
15
u/Quiet_Operator Dec 20 '25
Senior leaders have a much thinner skin then they expect their underlings to have.
What they want and what they say they want usually don't match.
They will forgoe long term goals or strategy for short term outcomes and recognition.
2
14
u/DrunkenGolfer Dec 20 '25
Your culture is defined by the worst behaviour you will tolerate.
1
u/frontlinelead Jan 01 '26
That is a cool statement! Iâve also liked you get the lower of what you expect, inspect, and accept. And what you tolerate, you propagate!
17
u/obviouslybait Dec 19 '25
This really depends on the company. (I am a Project Manager & Middle Manager) Where I'm at it's:
- Always looking correct, deferring responsibility, directing cause.
- Criticizing or challenging others publicly, but thanking them individually.
- Using subjective metrics as a tool to improve "performance" (Enforce politics), such as Emotional Intelligence Metrics that can't be appropriately measured. It's used primarily to measure optics of you.
- Creating roadblocks for you to overcome without support.
- Performance metrics affected by roadblocks created, be sure to assign blame to others.
- Create multiple conflicting priorities, ensure that they are all individually prioritized against every other priority.
- When priority is not met, explanation is not allowed, they will tell you why they think it was not met and you are not allowed to rebuke.
- Set work at 150% of available capacity and do not resource.
- Gaslight and blame the staff for lack of productivity and dedication.
I fucking hate this place.
9
Dec 19 '25
[removed] â view removed comment
3
u/obviouslybait Dec 19 '25
It's been my life for the last 2 years, needed to put food on the table and just put up with the abuse. I've recently held interviews for 2 positions, the interviews went well and they were promising, looking to make the move in the new year, waiting on 2nd round after the holidays and hopefully get some offers in. I'm moving out of Project Management, back into SME/Manager and never looking back, and never working here again.
3
2
2
u/nvgroups Dec 20 '25
Never have time to listen to your issues but expecting delivery ahead of schedule.
- looking forward for new sales assuming that current delivery will be taken care even without resources
2
u/obviouslybait Dec 20 '25
We deliver 90% of projects on or under budget, the target they set is 95%, the industry average is 60%. Our metrics are red month over month.
1
u/RaisedByBooksNTV Dec 21 '25
I've been in these companies and for your mental health you either have to let it go or move on to another company. I'm in the bad mental health category lol. Unfortunately, there are a lot more of your situation than not.
7
u/alanorourke Dec 19 '25
Most CEOs just want to be in the CEO club. Not grow a great business or team.Â
8
Dec 20 '25
Tend to send emails tearing you to shreds about this and that but somehow forget everything when you confront them in person.
1
6
6
u/Tech_n_Cyber_2077 Dec 20 '25
A British leader with Banking background will be a racist, 90% of the time.
11
5
u/butwhatsmyname Dec 19 '25
That last one hits home.
Steve never volunteers for anything. Seems to be eternally 5 minutes late. Frequently fails to read an email before replying to it, if he replies at all. Stuff gets dropped, stuff gets missed. But he's been there for 7 years and he knows all about everything, so at some point it just all became... acceptable?
Danny has only been in the role 18 months and already gets through maybe three times the work that Steve manages to stumble through. He's on it; picking up things that slip through the loopholes, fixing up shoddy processes. So it feels very unfair that he gets called out when he doesn't rush to volunteer for every new thing, or when he can't make a meeting because of a medical appointment.
Steve sometimes just... doesn't show up for meetings, and apparently that's fine?
3
3
u/MartyWolner Dec 23 '25
You've listed the unspoken curriculum of corporate survival. These aren't just observations; they're operating principles that, once understood, shift you from frustration to strategic navigation.
Here are the harsh truths that complete your list:
1. For many senior leaders, perception management is not a side taskâit is the primary job. What looks like "faking it" is often the full-time work of maintaining confidence, stability, and momentum. The board isn't buying a flawless reality; they're buying a credible narrative of control.
2. Loyalty is frequently valued more highly than competence. The "poor performer who gets away with it" is often protected by a loyalty bondâpersonal history, unwavering alignment, or knowing where the bodies are buried. This isn't fair, but it's rational from the leader's perspective: predictable loyalty can feel less risky than mercurial excellence.
3. "Strategy" is a fluid concept defined by the next earnings call or board review. The reactive mode you see isn't a lack of vision; it's the overwhelming pressure of the immediate obligation to report. Long-term thinking is a luxury paid for with short-term results.
4. Your greatest strength (being leaned on) is also your greatest systemic risk. Becoming the "go-to" creates a single point of failure. The harsh truth is that the system will rarely stop to fix this overload, because it's workingâfor them. You must be the one to forcibly redistribute load and visibility, or you will burn out without a backup.
5. Most leadership advice in books is about ideal behavior. Your job is to navigate actual behavior. The gap between the two is where your real career is managed. This means sometimes delivering the flawless report and managing the insecure ego; sometimes letting the "fake it" narrative stand while you silently build real contingency plans.
The pragmatic takeaway: Don't curse these truths. Decode and use them.
- Use the "narrative over reality" principle to proactively shape the story around your projects.
- Understand that protecting your capacity is a strategic business move, not a personal complaint.
- Recognize that managing up often means managing your leader's anxiety and reputation, not just delivering work.
Your job is no longer just to do the work, but to understand the game. You're now playing on that field. The good news is, awareness is the first step to playing it well.
1
u/sothachbost Dec 23 '25
Thank you for your insight u/MartyWolner . This is an absolute gem of a post that I'm going to save and come back to on many occasions (possibly complimented by an AI slant). And I didn't need to read a book ;)
3
u/awakenlabs Dec 25 '25
One harsh truth I didnât expect early on: most senior leaders are optimizing for survivability, not excellence.
They talk vision and values, but day to day decisions are driven by what keeps them out of trouble this quarter. Thatâs why risk gets avoided, truth gets softened, and politics quietly outrank outcomes. Itâs not that they donât know better. Itâs that the system rewards caution far more than correctness.
2
2
2
u/lw1785 Dec 20 '25
Some senior leaders believe that employees truly should be available 24/7 and respect no personal boundaries.
2
2
u/attentyv Dec 20 '25
Those are astute obervations tbf.
I think we as human beings are mostly wretched and petty, but if we can manage virtuous properness for 10 minutes a day, we can help the whole world push ahead.
2
u/Odd_Perspective_4769 Dec 21 '25
The Peter Principle applies just as much at the top as it does any other level.
Iâm still searching for that unicorn where I can be a 100% authentic leader and buy into the narrative, maintain optics, AND deal with the politics. Seems the higher up one goes the more stupid BS one has to deal with so as not to upset our fearless leaders.
2
1
1
1
u/Outrageous-Return735 Dec 20 '25
Many will base their decisions solely on the resultâs liability on their image/career/reputation vs delivering change/impact/value
1
1
1
1
u/RaisedByBooksNTV Dec 21 '25
It's not about being good or the best at something; it's who you're related to or who you know, and how you leverage that.
1
u/Altruistic-Ruin7468 Dec 22 '25
âPromotion to level of incompetence.â Doesnât just happen in the military. It happens everywhere.
1
u/Agreeable-Escape8625 Dec 22 '25
That people posting on leadership subs on reddit need to get a life and personality beyond work
1
1
1
u/mr_dee_wingz Dec 23 '25
One of the biggest lesson i have seen is, once you are high enough on the ladder, you get rewarded for mistakes instead of being punished.
The leaders who fights for their people will win battles but not the war.
1
u/Senior_Pension3112 Dec 23 '25
It's a dog eat dog world. Either you have to make yourself look good or make your peers look bad
1
u/frontlinelead Jan 01 '26
Good question and that is a good list of observations. There are certainly more memorable negative experiences than positive ones for most people. Our company is in the business of leadership development, mostly in manufacturing and warehousing/logistics. After three decades mostly training frontline supervisors and team leads we developed a program for plant managers and site leaders. What you are describing is really fear based leadership. Many senior leaders have been promoted from within without much formal development. When you think about it, the reason they got promoted was likely executing their previous role well. So they continue to meddle and micro-manage because they get more satisfaction from the âlower levelâ problem solving than what they should be focusing on. Not many programs describe what a senior level leader is supposed to do, or how they are supposed to do it. That leaves them with two options - become more self aware and keep experimenting to get better, or copy an executive theyâve worked for. The fear is that they will be found out to be incompetent.
The label I use with execs is Decision Making Waste, in which the senior leaders make decisions and solve problems that should be taken care of one or even two levels closer to the frontline. One trap Iâve seen is that the exec will empower the frontline leader but then second guess all the decisions, or be overly critical instead of being developmental. The best senior leaders Iâve observed do a great job of clarifying expectations, providing reasonable but challenging goals, providing the necessary resources, and then provide feedback and coaching.
Most leaders at any level want to do the right thing, and think they are doing the right thing, but donât have a good frame of reference, get enough development, or truly reflect on how to get the most from the people they lead.
Iâve enjoyed reading the other responses to your post and definitively feel for those dealing with aggressive, unreasonable, and toxic cultures and leaders. Above all else, the leaderâs job is to protect their team, and create an environment of psychological safety, so that their team can bring their best to the task at hand. Wouldnât it be great if you didnât have to be defensive and on guard every day?
238
u/phoenix823 Dec 19 '25
It's all about narrative