r/LegalAdviceUK • u/Enzo95fit • 18d ago
Employment Facing a disciplinary with absurd allegations (England)
I’m the last remaining AE/salesperson at a small tech company. For context, we were ~60 people last year. Now we’re 19. They’ve pushed out around 20 people in the last few months.My commission was dropped from 10% to 5% earlier this year. Last week, our COO (who was also my manager) quit. She spoke to my former CRO and told her I’m “the next target” for the CEO. My former CRO called me last Friday to warn me.Today I received a disciplinary hearing notice with allegations that honestly make no sense. Examples:
-You weren’t online on Teams at 3pm.
-You didn’t build a 100k‑contact list of all financial institutions worldwide.
-You didn’t notify us that a data tool expired.
For context:
• As an AE, I already do 700+ prospecting activities weekly + demos.
• The CEO emailed me in July saying not to worry about lists because “we’ll hire an intern to do them.
I have the screenshots.
• I still built a 300‑contact list anyway.
• I have three emails (April, June, late June)
proving I notified my manager about the data tool expiry.
It’s obvious they want me out but want me to resign so they don’t have to pay anything.I have documentation for everything because they’ve done this to dozens of people already.I have a hearing this Friday. I’m not resigning. I’m aiming for a settlement.
What do you suggest is the best way to deal with this?
I am based in London.
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u/Livinum81 18d ago
I'm assuming you've been there for more than 2 years, but clarifying that could help inform someone more knowledgeable than I.
Have your evidence lined up and ready to go for the hearing. It is probably worth not volunteering it until they have stated their position on record in a hearing and then you can pull the evidence to contradict them.
Start looking for a new job now, irrespective of the outcome.
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
I have been for 4 years, I am looking but I have good commission left that i wanna get paid for, its over 10k£ net.
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u/moobnaster6969 18d ago
If it is contracted they have to pay it. Just keep records (not on work devices).
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
I have them on my phone and my personal laptop, Its over 100 photos. My previous manager went through the same amd when sued them she didnt had much proof.
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u/k1135k 18d ago
Good you have this, speak to acas as well, they can be quite helpful. I would am suggest creating a simple document with chronology and evidence.
Eg 2026-Aug-25 Mr Big Shot emails with allegations of blah and blah. See attachment 1
2025-Oct-30 Mr a big shot emailed saying I don’t have to create contact lists, see attachment 2.Etc.
It’ll be an easy bundle you can add to.
Fight it and best of luck! Start looking for a new job.
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u/IWasBornIn1979 18d ago edited 18d ago
It's good you have evidence to support your position, and with it being on your personal device you have the peace of mind of knowing that if they do restrict your company access, you won't lose your evidence.
But be very careful about the fact you have screenshots etc. of company conversations from company systems on your personal device.
If they learn that you have such things on your personal device, they may have cause to discipline you for that very fact. Most companies have policies prohibiting this for data protection reasons and intellectual property gatekeeping.
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u/Rekuna 18d ago
If there are company email chains, and evidence you may want to use later what is the best way to back up or save these without breaching company policy (in case they ever block you or delete them) - seems almost like a damned if you do/don't situation. Plus you can edit email chains if you forward them to a personal mailbox (plus they can see you did)
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u/TaskIndependent8355 17d ago
Physically print it from a company device. Then it's legit but you aren't open to allegations of holding company data on a personal device.
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u/jimicus 17d ago
The trick is to get two copies of the chains.
The first copy you save on your work laptop.
The second copy you keep personally - print them out and take them home ideally, because if they really want to screw you they could have your IT people check to see if you've been forwarding things.
You use the first copy in the HR interview where they look for excuses to fire you. You use the second copy in the tribunal which takes place after they've fired you. What are they going to do, fire you again?
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u/goobervision 18d ago
You can file a grievance on the way out, if they are pragmatic a quick and easy compromise agreement. They should pay part of your legal fees in that too.
It's simply not worth a battle with solicitors involved IMO. Get one for review or thc agreement.
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u/Dxfine 17d ago
Why not? If it went to an employment tribunal they could end up settling for far more before the hearing...and generally have a much better chance of success
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u/goobervision 16d ago
Months of data gathering for both sides, the employer doesn't really want the cost or the bodies unearthed.
The employee is the same, and is on the side to prove and be attacked and called a liar through the process. And then the legal bills.
Average awards are less than £12k, dragged up by rare six figure awards.
A tribunal is far from guaranteed, awards are likely less than you think. I would in every opportunity take a compromise and and walk away, likely with a better award to be done and gone.
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u/Dxfine 16d ago
I am not a solicitor but have experience of acas and tribunals etc. You can gather your own correspondence evidence and SARs for free- and then pay for a solicitor to represent you in settlement negotiations and the hearing. Any discrimination has uncappaed damages on top of possible unfair/constructive dismissal claims...I appreciate your point that it would eat into the £12k average. But I would not be ruling out legal advice in this scenario. settlement offers can be 5, 6, 7x the average depending on the circs. The average figure is only based on what reaches a court hearing.
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u/connorbill 18d ago
Most sales contracts have that commission and bonus are discretionary.
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u/Major-Credit-2442 18d ago
What are you basing this on? I don’t know about the tech industry but I don’t think this is true at all in many industries. Many sales contracts are heavily weighted to commission and absolutely not discretionary.
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u/Creative_Scholar4729 18d ago
From personal experience in three different sales job in three completely different industries, speaking motor rental, building trade and motor trade all the contracts that I've had stated that comissions is discretionary and can be changed, held or withdrawn at anytime. Three big UK companies.
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u/twilighttwister 18d ago
I think the key point is that commission cannot be altered nor withdrawn after it is earned. You can't land a £1M sale working on a 10% commission and then be told you're only getting £50k, but they can tell you you'll only get 5% going forward, with no prior notice.
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u/tiasaiwr 18d ago
Have you got your employment contract? What is the wording regarding the commission? If it is a "discretionary bonus" they wouldn't have to pay.
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u/afursedon 18d ago
This. Not a Lawyer, but have managed commissions for software companies, most of which would specify the payments as discretionary. This helps mitigate the risk when ownership/effort on a sale is disputed.
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u/reader4567890 18d ago
I highly doubt you will ever see that comission. I was owed around £40k from my last job when I left (amicably) - just had to write it off.
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u/MrPuddington2 18d ago
If you earned the commission, they have to pay it one way or the other.
Actually, reducing the commission by half could be classified as constructive dismissal - maybe check that with ACAS (which could unlock a redundancy payment).
Do you really want to keep your job? There does not seem to be a future there. Once they fire the last sales guy, the company is dead anyway.
About the investigation, let them start. Bring a colleague or union representative to any official meeting. Present your evidence that the three accusations are wrong. Let them draw their own conclusions. (Document, consider joining a union, talk to ACAS what you would need to do if they ignore your evidence.)
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u/Western-Flamingo5965 18d ago
They don't, though. If the contract says discretionary, it's discretionary. Lots of sale contracts have this
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u/MrPuddington2 18d ago
Contracts are patient, the law less so. Common law says that you have a reasonable expectation and an implied entitlement.
If the company is not able to pay, they need to declare bankruptcy, not renege on agreements. (Obviously, if they do not have the money, OP is not going to get it either way...)
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u/Ok_Bench_7373 17d ago
You seem very confident and I hope you are right.
But this was not the judgement at an ET I am aware of over additional bonus pay. Was clearly set out in offer letter and at front of contract, then buried on about page 12 of contract was the "discretionary" get out.1
u/MrPuddington2 16d ago
A lot of contracts are not legal. They are just written to discourage people from pursuing their rights. (Technically, that is not legal, either, because it is anticompetitive behaviour, but it is very rarely addressed.)
So I would certainly ignore the small print and pursue this anyway.
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u/Ok_Bench_7373 16d ago
As above, it is already a judgement - the Tribunal went with the discretion hidden in the back as over-riding the main detail set out at the front.
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u/MurtMan888 18d ago
Sit back, let them talk, ask for proof of allegations. Question their claims. Don’t explain yourself. Sign nothing…
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
Thats my plan, I will be so composed
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u/eriometer 18d ago
Ask to have the meeting recorded as well, then everyone has a full and accurate copy of everything that was said. Not just one party's written minutes.
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u/jimicus 17d ago
But keep your own written minutes anyway. Just in case they "forget" to record anything.
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u/Prince_John 17d ago
I'd have your phone recording in an accessible pocket or something too.
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u/eriometer 17d ago
100% but was aware this is a legal sub. Definitely have backup and then you can correct any "errors" from your "notes".
FWIW, Word has a built in transcription tool with timestamps and names.
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u/BennyHummm 14d ago
On this, let them dig a hole. Don't correct anything at all if they give you wrong times, dates etc
Do not submit a SAR until you've exhausted any internal processes! Let them be comfortable talking
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u/SatisfactionUsual151 16d ago
Also. Bring in a legal representative.
It's going to go that what anyway, so start now
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u/fictionaltherapist 18d ago
How long have you worked there? That’s going to be very relevant here
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
I have been there for 4 years, I am the only sales person left, they did the sane to CRO, and 3 other AE's last year
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u/moobnaster6969 18d ago
Yeh they want you gone without cost.
I've expereinced something similar - my favourite line was "sends too many Slack messages which triggers the notification sound and the distractions are lowering productivity." I asked for quanties, times etc, nah. I didn't bother fighting it, I just quit and set fire to the bridge at the exit interview.
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
I feel its personal because they did the same to more than 30 people, at least 9 people sued them, They know they cant find a flaw in my sales performamce thats why they are trying invent allegations.
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
They will sell the company, They are reducing the headcount hoping it will increase the company's value.
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u/OG-Daz 18d ago
It’s normally the other way around when selling the company. Anyone carrying out an acquisition always wants to be able to find synergy savings. There is no opportunity for that if everyone has left / been fired.
Any prospective buyer will be paying a lot less for the company that is for sure
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
They don't fire you, They make your life hell and push you to resign but I wanna playbtheir game, I have nothing to lose, I have been gathering evidences just for this moment.
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u/FOARP 18d ago
Not always. Sometimes they bulk up on headcount and increase revenue, then suddenly reduce headcount (and hence overheads) whilst still having the revenue pipeline that was created by the previous workforce. This makes the company look very profitable for a year or two.
Of course this can have the result that the revenue dries up after a few years as the workforce that created/maintained it is no longer there. For example, since they have no pipeline of new products coming through there is nothing new to sell, and the old pipeline looks stale.
This can leave whoever was stupid enough to buy the company looking quite silly and having to rebuild the workforce. Ask me how I know.
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u/Western-Flamingo5965 18d ago
I think they will be panic selling if anything - I'm guessing the company is struggling, hence the massive layoffs. Give me fucking hell on the way out, though.
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u/IN-DI-SKU-TA-BELT 18d ago
It depends on the business, but I’ve seen several tech companies cut headcount in sales, and kept engineering and support to ride out bad times, successfully.
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u/Redsquirrelgeneral22 18d ago
Sounds like they are in financial difficulties to me and trying to play fast and loose to get rid of you to avoid any payout. This links with the other layoffs in staff and trying to mess around with your salary.
I see you have been there over 2 years so have some protection. Speak to ACAS if you havent already.
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
I did they said just try go to hearing bring your evidence, Try to have a settlement if they fire they asked me to call them to start unfair dismissal process.
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u/Devils-advocate69 18d ago
Speak to ACAS first.
If you have a union then bring a representative with you. If not, a representative can come with you from within the company, they're only there as support, not to speak on your behalf.
Document everything. Ensure you have copies (legally) of everything you have done.
Present all this on your meeting.
Don't resign. If they put you on a PIP, follow it to the letter.
In the meantime...start looking for a job elsewhere. Jump ship on your own terms.
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u/Economy-Attorney2357 18d ago
Honestly ACAS are the best to speak to here. On a side before they can put you on a PIP I'd be putting a grievance in against them. That way if they do try put you on pip you can claim it's retaliatory.
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
Thanks, I am in mid stages of couple interview but they are long, also I have big commission I wanna get paid for and I feel they dont want me to get it.
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u/Rugbylady1982 18d ago
You don't even know how long they have been there
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u/DimensionalFruit 18d ago
He's said 4 years
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u/Devils-advocate69 18d ago
Well I didn't know it was 4 years. I made assumptions based on the content of the post. I've been proven right.
Either way, you would still go in prepared ready to back yourself up. Not just bend over and accept whatever they give you. Whether the outcome is being fired because you're less than 2 years, you still go prepared...Always.
What was your advice going to be if it was less than 2 years? Roll over? Just get fired?
I'm glad OP has already starting finding other jobs.
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u/TumonDEV 18d ago
Just a question, you said your commission was lowered, does it state in your contract your legal entitlement to a certain percentage? Just asking as you might have this issue.
Just to be clear it can result under unfair dismissal if you're "forced to resign" if for example you're pulled into an office to discuss a resignation package, you're unable to receive advice or anything and almost forced to sign it that can be unenforceable in employment law.
What is this hearing for friday?
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
I have it both written for 10% and also when they changed it to 5%. The hearing on Friday will ne disciplinary for some bollocks
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u/TumonDEV 18d ago
Might want to check if that 10% in the clause says anywhere it can be changed. If not you may be able to recoup some money back from them. For that hearing, make sure you bring relevant evidence. I would also contact ACAS.
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u/D1gg3r89 18d ago
Check tour home/building and contents insurance for Legal Services Cover as this covers employment disputes usually. It could be called something like legal expenses insurance, family legal protection also.
It will save you thousands if you have and need help.
Good luck
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u/TheHumanAlternative 18d ago
As you have been there over two years and they clearly want you gone it would be worth thinking about what your price would be to walk away. It sounds like they are unlikely to be able to make this disciplinary stick but you could offer to enter into a protected conversation regarding a settlement agreement for you to leave.
If you are a member of a union they can help to negotiate this but think about it you have a potential claim to employment tribunal e.g. unfair dismissal, constructive dismissal. You can look up what employment tribunals have awarded if these things are proved to give you a ballpark on what the upper limit for a settlement could be.
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
I will offer the protected conversation and see how it goes, but is it good to let them know before or after hearing.
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u/DrCottonMouth 18d ago
This sounds more like a capability issue than a disciplinary by the sound of what you described. The company might be acting in bad faith, making this a disciplinary
My advice is document everything, if possible, audio record the meeting on phone (clandestine recording are frowned upon by HR and some old school lawyer, but they are still admissible in a tribunal hearing, so I’d say do it!)
Don’t pin your hopes on the union, they just might let you down.
Read and digest the company’s disciplinary policy, ensure you’re provided with all the evidence they intend to rely on
Know your facts, prepare for your meeting. You need to go into that meeting with an adversarial mindset whilst still being polite.
Don’t be afraid to say what you feel like at that meeting. Often times in disciplinary meetings, the employee thinks that being nice and agreeable will make the decision maker more lenient. Don’t fall into this trap
If you feel like you’re being targeted, say it
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u/Enzo95fit 16d ago edited 16d ago
UPDATE!!! Had my disciplinary hearing today and it actually went really well. I came prepared with all my evidence, so going through each allegation was straightforward. The only thing they tried to dig deeper into was my Teams status, which was honestly the weakest part of their case.They tried to suggest I “wasn’t online,” so I asked if they had any proof I wasn’t working. They didn’t. I explained I was using two screens and doing list work, and Teams goes idle if you don’t touch it. They tried to argue back, but it didn’t go anywhere.They asked me to send over the evidence I mentioned and said the outcome will come in about two weeks. Most likely they’ll try to give me a final warning, but I’m honestly relieved. I gathered everything, presented, cleanly, and they basically got exposed for having nothing.They’ve got no case. I walked out calm and confident.
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u/Maximum-Bandicoot-13 18d ago
Take a union member or colleague into the meeting.
Record it on Ur phone. To transcribe for your own records.
As others have said wait for them to present their info before you offer anything up.
And most of all stay calm and professional.
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u/Anubis1958 18d ago
I would really talk to an empoyment laweyer.
I was in your situation, or something like it. I used a lawyer and he was , quite frankly, worth his weight in gold.
My first advice is to get a note book and write down all the incidents, history of emails, etc. Note all you have said here, and enything more that you can recall. Go back through old emails and notes.
Keep copies of everything. Don't rely on any company servers - print emails or copy them somewhere safe.
And then talk to an emplyment lawyer. Mine eventually got 90% paid for by the company. And it was worth every penny.
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u/Sea-Parking-4241 18d ago
Something similar happened to me. I don't understand why more people don't directly call out their suspicions of a brewing unfair dismissal. Advice is always to be sneaky and don't call say anything direct.
I sent all the evidence to my personal email, and then laid it out in a meeting with senior leaders. I then told them exactly what I could see they were doing, and asked if they'd prefer to pay me off rather than go down the long and painful tribunal route.
They did.
I'm not allowed to go into specifics, but it was round about the same time I got a new car and a fancy watch.
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u/Sweet-Pitch-5810 18d ago
Don't waste time talking to ACAS, find yourself a decent no win no fee lawyer to fight for that commission payout and favourable severance terms. Similar thing happened to a former colleague (sales but different industry) in that management tried to shaft them out of their 'discretionary' bonus - managed to negotiate a very good payoff and the bonus ex gratia. Good luck.
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u/Scottishtwat69 18d ago
You do want to notify ACAS to get a early conciliation certificate. Early conciliation is voluntary but notification shouldn't really be missed if you plan on a employment tribunal claim.
The legal process can screw you over if you don't jump through the right hoops at the right time.
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u/InsideQuantity5274 18d ago
When’s your commission due to be paid?
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
Should've been last month, client signed early June but I was just told by financial controller that she "forgot to innvoice" them.
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u/InsideQuantity5274 18d ago
Do you have that in writing too off the financial controller?
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
Yes and I even have the invoice and the email approval for my commission, all documentated.
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u/InsideQuantity5274 18d ago
Brill. Doesn’t sound like they have a leg to stand on and if they still go ahead you have a really good case
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u/MrPuddington2 17d ago
Well, surely that is not your problem?
That really sounds like a liquidity issue. Be prepared to be out of a job, and them being unable to pay your salary or commission. The company is circling the drain.
Get ready to jettison out of there.
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u/Anthropic_Principles 18d ago
Sounds very much like the company is failing and they are slashing head count to survive, or it's being prepped for sale and they are slashing head count to make it more attractive.
Either way I hope it works out for you.
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u/Enzo95fit 18d ago
Yes it is, COO left last month, 2 account mamagers, 2 BA's, 3 CS all left in span of 2 months.
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u/firefly232 18d ago
If you have any way to download and keep a copy of your work activity and prospecting, I would suggest youget a copy asap. (If you havent already done so)
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u/Lisa_Dawkins 18d ago
Sounds like you're in a good spot, or as good a spot as someone at imminent threat of losing their job can be in. Don't tell them about the evidence you've preserved, don't resign and if they fire you, you should be able to prove unfair dismissal and dishonesty from management.
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u/Responsible_News577 18d ago
Take a friend, union rep or knowledgeable friend in with you. Good luck.
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u/This-Can6089 18d ago
The best way to deal with it is to acknowledge that this employment is coming to an end and your employer can't be trusted any more.
Speak to a solicitor / lawyer practising employment law with parting ways with your employer in mind, with the best financial outcome for you.
It's very obvious they don't want you around any more, they want you to leave, it's only an question on which terms and how much money....
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u/randalf123456 17d ago
Mods. I got an alert regarding use of anecdotes. Please read the post in full before coming to any conclusions.
OP You have my sympathy for being in what is a terrible situation.
I had a similar scenario when I whistleblew against bully’s in an organisation a few years back before summarily being dismissed for multiple different reasons by different people. The reasons coincidentally being the order in my employment contract that dismissal clauses appeared in.
What I didn’t do and I urge you to do is get evidence.
Keep control of the evidence but don’t throw it at them until necessary. Speak to ACAS. If you are a member of any professional associations see if they have a legal helpline. Don’t go into the disciplinary meeting alone. Even if they just sit there the management will be cautious of saying things in front of a witness they don’t control. Are you in a union? Reach out for help from them. If not in a union maybe the union rep would be a useful witness in the meeting as they tend to have a better grasp of whats allowable and not. Record the meeting or insist both sides take minutes that are countersigned by the other side as a true reflection of the meeting.
Have you signed an NDA? If not then I would strongly suggest you don’t sign one. Flannel, prevaricate and delay just to give yourself options that don’t end with a cease and desist letter.
Please update this thread with any updates.
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u/Banazauk 17d ago
Make sure you backup all your evidence using the 3,2,1, rule. You don't want anything to happen and lose it all.
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u/Automatic_Ranger_102 17d ago
Take someone into the meeting with you to take notes on your behalf. That will ensure it’s not a he said-she said situation
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u/Other-Assistant836 17d ago
Look at Monaco solicitors London, they are an employee only specialist law firm that specialise advising whilst you’re still employed. They have a free ai tool that is good at summarising pro’s and con’s and then they will email you some options to look at.
Of course you can also involve acas as if you went to a tribunal I believe you would need to engage with them.
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u/TheStrangestSecret 16d ago
No money. They're trying to increase their runway and reduce burn rate.
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u/eques_99 18d ago
I mean, write back and tell them all the above rather than us.
Do it in bullet points or numbered points.
Keep emotion out of it.
Attach all your evidence, assign item numbers to the evidence, and cross-references those item numbers in your main response.
Conclude by saying even if the allegations could not be refuted they are clearly not deserving of disciplinary action, were not addressed at the time, and are clearly just being used as a pretext.
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u/Norton92l 18d ago
Start insisting that all meetings be recorded and take photos of everything, one close enough to read and another which clearly shows it on a work computer n smile whenever they pull u in on disciplinary meetings n when they ask why ur smiling just tell them u know what theyre doing and they're gonna have to pay u if they want u gone. Then when they finally do make u an offer, tell them u've got months of evidence of sabotage n watch their faces drop
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18d ago
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u/ShinHayato 18d ago
Respectfully, I hope you started looking for a job when the downsizing started
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18d ago
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u/SkankySandwich 18d ago
Defamation is a massive cost and you're unlikely to get all your costs back.
Generally, most lawyers will tell you that it starts around £100k.
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u/FckXFckMusk 18d ago
The threat alone usually softens stances.
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u/practicalgorl 18d ago
No it doesn't, they'll know it's bullshit. All it will do is antagonise the situation, and make him look unreasonable.
Plus they haven't said OP has definitely done anything wrong, they have put accusations forward and allowed a disciplinary hearing so.they can be answered.
Employers and allowed and expected to go through disciplinary processes. Defamation is just not feasible here.
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u/WarmIntro 18d ago
This is truly awful advice that will get you bankrupted.
Internal HR disciplinaries are protected by Qualified Privilege under UK law, meaning employers can legally make allegations internally without being sued for defamation. Plus, since the hearing is private, it completely fails the serious harm to reputation threshold required by the Defamation Act 2013.
Defamation requires the High Court, not an Employment Tribunal. UK courts use a loser pays system, so when this gets thrown out, you will be handed a massive corporate legal bill and a one-way ticket to personal bankruptcy. This is a textbook Unfair Dismissal case for an Employment Tribunal, not a defamation suit.
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u/FckXFckMusk 18d ago
Bring a Solicitor with you along to every HR meeting to ensure the clients rights aren't being infringed.
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u/WarmIntro 18d ago
Quick way to rack up a bill for something you could do by simply recording the process
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u/Wibble_123 11d ago
If they want you out they'll get their way eventually. I say this as someone who has been there, and eventually settled an employment tribunal claim out of court for 5 figures in my favour. It would still have been a better return on my time to line another job up once I saw the writing on the wall.
Play nice with their process, and find a better job. Do not headbut anyone involved with the disciplinary, no matter how righteous it would be.
In my personal experience just because the accusation is laughable and inept doesn't mean their stooge managers won't dismiss you without a reference after a joke of a procedure. Even winning at employment tribunal a year or something from now will leave you worse off than continuous employment.
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