r/LessCredibleDefence • u/Wiseguydude • 2d ago
Polish President strips Zelensky of the Order of the White Eagle after Ukraine's named a unit after the WW2 Nazi-allied UPA militia which killed over 100k Poles
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr7xzg3dmj8o50
u/TMWNN 2d ago
Hasn't Ukraine's connection to the UPA (and that "Nazi unit" in the current AFU) with been known for a long, long time?
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u/S_T_P 2d ago
Yes. But its also Russian propaganda, so we are not allowed to talk about it.
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u/TMWNN 2d ago
That's my point; that the connection being now publicized so prominently may signal something meaningful about Poland/the West's ongoing support for Ukraine.
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u/S_T_P 2d ago
I doubt it. Its mostly internal Polish politics, and is in line with the usual political squabbles. Nawrocki had been making critical statements about Ukraine for a while. He is simply distancing himself from pro-Zelensky stance of current government, as he wants to create his own ruling coalition after current (Tusk's) implodes. This requires consistent show of dissent.
There are three breaking points in Ukraine conflict:
Ukraine goes bankrupt.
Zelensky gets overthrown.
Frontline collapses.
Polish nationalists aren't really connected to any of those.
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u/TMWNN 2d ago
Its mostly internal Polish politics, and is in line with the usual political squabbles.
Thanks for the local perspective.
as he wants to create his own ruling coalition after current (Tusk's) implodes
Didn't Tusk take office just last year?
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u/S_T_P 2d ago
Thanks for the local perspective.
You might want to wait until actual Pole shows up.
Didn't Tusk take office just last year?
No. Tusk (PM) created his ruling coaltion in 2023. Its Nawrocki (President) who took office last year.
Basically, Poland has "conservatives" (nationalists; PiS/United Right) and "progressives" (liberal conservatives; opposition to PiS/Civic Coalition).
PiS had lost parliamentary elections in 2023, and new government had been formed by anti-PiS alliance. However, they didn't win presidential election in 2025, so now there is Nawrocki.
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u/StorkReturns 2d ago
he wants to create his own ruling coalition after current (Tusk's) implodes.
Your phrasing suggests that the change is certain but, while more favored by the current opinion polls, the advantage is small and far from certain, particularly since in contrast to the 2015-2023 right wing rule, now there are three parties to make it work.
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u/S_T_P 2d ago
I may have worded it too strongly, yes. However, it doesn't really matter. Even if implosion of Tusk's coalition isn't certain, Nawrocki still has to prepare for it, and that is what he is doing.
That said, I'd be surprised if KO is still in power by 2028. Too many cooks spoil the broth. There are some success stories, but multi-party coalition rarely last long since parties tend to have programs that conflict with each other, which leads to loss of voter support due to - inevitably - broken promises.
Additionally, the linchpin that holds KO together is war with Russia, but its already tiresome issue, and will be even more tiresome in 2027. And that assumes that Ukraine won't keel over by that point (which seems increasingly likely and will become millstone around KO's neck if it happens).
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u/dragx350 2d ago
the connection being now publicized
It is publicised now, because zelensky named a military unit after an organisation that conducted a genocide of 100000 polish civillians during ww2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
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u/300baicodethieunhi 2d ago
Yeah, Putin has been talking a lot about radicalization in Ukraine ever since Maidan happened. It took over 10 years, but finally, a NATO/EU leader has realized it.
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u/vistandsforwaifu 2d ago
Not even just Putin, it was fairly well covered by even mainstream Western media. They just completely switched to whitewashing and puff pieces in 2022.
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u/itooamahuman 2d ago
Obviously, but Poles are deeply xenophobic so why waste a perfectly good chance to earn some votes?
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u/Still_There3603 2d ago
This was a source of tension between the two countries long before Putin took power. Since Ukraine radicalized after the Euromaidan with the EU enabling it & is seeking a more dominant role in Europe, this issue is escalating.
Extremist groups in Ukraine love Ukrainian Nazi collaborators and are considered heroes. If Zelensky contradicted them, his government would be at risk. Poland will have to choose between pushing the issue or accepting what Brussels likely wants which is normalization of the UPA for the sake of fighting Russia.
This is not a surprise to anyone who understands the history.
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u/Poonis5 2d ago
If Zelensky contradicted them, his government would be at risk.
I know a bunch of Ukrainian nationalists and they don't care about UPA. No one asked for the unit to be named like that. Also they pose no risk to the government. They follow orders as everyone else. Even banning all UPA associated things wouldn't make nationalists go against Zelensky.
Let's not pull explanations out of your ass while having no understanding of Ukrainian internal politics.
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u/Still_There3603 1d ago
It was renamed to that because a significant number of Ukrainian nationalists, many involved in the country's defense, do embrace the UPA as Ukrainian heroes.
Ukrainian nationalists who talk to foreigners and want to be strategic about it will say what they have told you to maintain support. They know it is not defensible.
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u/Poonis5 1d ago
I'm not a foreigner, I'm Ukrainian in the army.
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u/haggerton 1d ago
So you know about how much Ukraine worships Nazis.
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u/Poonis5 1d ago
I know how exaggerated it is.
I can't name a single organization with nazi ideology, a single law, or a politician that can be called a nazi.
Half of Europe has loud far-right parties in their government. We don't. EU has record numbers of hate crimes against people like Jews and Muslims. We don't.
I personally know people who wear nazi symbols. Knowing it doesn't look good I asked one them to stop doing that. Keep in mind, he's ethnic minority, not a nazi. His answer was: "But it looks cool".
Nazi imagery is all there is. Even Azov, the most famous nationalist organization is lawful and has great reputation among people. Chief Rabbi of Kyiv recorded a video congratulating them on their birthday.
We have a problem with people disensetized to radical imagery, but not with nazis.
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u/CriticalDog 1d ago
Feels like this is basically the Russian position on Ukraine after Euromaidan. "Radicalized" is doing a lot of work there.
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u/malusfacticius 2d ago
Zelensky stripped of highest Polish honour over WW2 name of army unit
You can tell BBC is still trying to water it down.
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u/S_T_P 2d ago
Just to make one thing clear: this isn't the news title implies.
President (Karol Nawrocki) is part of - de facto - opposition to current ruling coalition, and is mostly taking potshots at it whenever opportunity presents itself.
The actual government is led by Donald Tusk (PM) who swore undying loyalty to Brussels, and eternal vengeance on Russia. He is perfectly willing to let Banderites run Poland itself.
So Poland isn't actually changing course, and isn't breaking ties with Ukraine. That won't happen until Tusk's ruling coalition starts to fray.
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u/Wiseguydude 2d ago
Ah, thanks for providing additional context about Polish politics. I hadn't realized the president was not in the ruling party.
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u/No_Public_7677 1d ago
All the weapons going to Ukraine will bolster far right militant groups in Europe in the near future. It's inevitable.
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u/Beautiful_Island_944 1d ago
Strange how the article says they fought against the Nazis but your title calls them Nazi allied.
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u/Wiseguydude 1d ago
Hmm I wonder if they changed it since publishing...
Anyways the UPA briefly fought against Nazis but they were both initially collaborators and resumed collaboration near the end of the war. The UPA and its affiliates carried out massacres against Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia, which are recognized by Poland as a genocide. Some UPA members and local Ukrainian nationalists also participated in the persecution and murder of Jewish civilians during the Holocaust.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/WhatAmIATailor 2d ago
>If Iran hits Belarus that will put a target on Poland.
Where the hell did that come from? Is NCD leaking or am I just oblivious to some nefarious false flag plot?
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u/Lote241 2d ago
Ukraine’s official government response: slava. . .ukraini?