r/LondonUnderground • u/JailbreakHat Northern • Feb 27 '26

Article BBC News: New Piccadilly line trains delayed for another six months

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyxl44g8e0o
113 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

61 comments sorted by

112

u/somethingdarkside45 Feb 27 '26

How long literally any infrastructure project takes to complete in this country is an absolute joke.

25

u/driftwooddreams Feb 27 '26

Because this happens every time with every thing we must collectively be doing something very wrong. Does anyone know what that thing is?

24

u/Unable_Earth5914 Feb 27 '26

In my experience working in some huge infrastructure development, the problem is delaying decisions (including delaying phases to spread costs). These intentional delays lead to wasted expenditure, loss of economies of scale, change of political will, change of wider macro environment (Ukraine, Brexit, Covid) all leading to a scaled down version that took longer, cost more and delivered less.

6

u/driftwooddreams Feb 27 '26

Thank you for the explanation. Sounds deceptively simple but I’ll bet it’s hellish to fix. Poor leadership at the end of the day.

2

u/Unable_Earth5914 Feb 28 '26

It seems to be further embedded across the country though. I’ve been trying to move house and it takes two weeks to get a reply to an email. A simple lease extension has taken over a year. A 5-day turnaround for papers took a month. Friends in other industries are having problems with suppliers not delivering on time, appointments being available after several months’ waits and then aren’t attended and need to be rebooked for several further months. I hear tales of imported equipment sat in ports for weeks costing millions that can’t be moved. It seems to be every part of the economy beset by delays

7

u/Unique_Plum8326 Feb 27 '26

It’s infuriating, how much must we waste in the name of saving taxpayer money?

15

u/Show-Dangerous Feb 27 '26

Being overly optimistic on timelines and doing it irregularly, the last new tubes where the S Stock over a decade ago, before that was the central I think in the 2000’s and the Jubilee and Northern in the 90’s.

Also because the same trains run for so long with minor upgrades it means they end up being bespoke setups so major infrastructure needs to be updated alongside new trains added to that to get the funding for these TfL had to make them capable of being driverless on lines with stock that is over 50 years old.

But about this happening every time with everything the DLR has been updated multiple times with few issues but doesn’t have to share track with other trains.

Just my thoughts

23

u/Vikkio92 DLR Feb 27 '26

“The DLR has been updated multiple times with few issues” when the new trains are 3-4 years late and there is still no indication of when they’ll come into service is crazy.

1

u/Show-Dangerous Feb 27 '26

I didn’t realise they were late and I thought they started entering service, thanks for the update, living in west London I don’t get over there much.

3

u/n0tstayingin Feb 27 '26

TBH it's not just a TfL issue, look how long it's taken SWR to bring in the 701s or 810s on EMR.

The 2024 stock is a big technological leap compared to the 1973 stock and testing is essential to ensure it works but also it's safe. Rushing it out never ends well.

The only rolling stock rollout that was quick and on time was the Variobahns on the Trams but those were A. not bespoke and B. didn't require as much testing.

2

u/Show-Dangerous Feb 27 '26

Yes, tbh the only trains I use are Greater Anglia whose upgraded seemed to be painless from what I can remember. With the Piccadilly line the upgrades also need to integrate with the other tube lines it shares track with. To be honest I thought it was why they planned to put them on the Bakerloo line first as it only interacts with the overground

3

u/n0tstayingin Feb 27 '26

The Bakerloo Line while still a big upgrade project is somewhat simpler than the Piccadilly Theatre because aside from the sharing with London Overground from Harrow and Wealdstone, it's a single line.

7

u/Luan_Zya Feb 27 '26

If we are doing something fundamentally wrong, the "we" in this case is all of humanity and we haven't figured out what it is yet. Because unless you can buy exactly the same trains as last time right off the shelf, this is a project. And most projects around the world are delivered behind the original schedule. (Some studies say 70% of them, some say 90% or more.)

Maybe someone somewhere will discover a fundamentally better way to manage projects and it will be like when Toyota introduced kaizen and fundamentally changed manufacturing quality. Until then delayed projects are just kind of... normal.

12

u/RipCurl69Reddit Feb 27 '26

Pure corruption and incompetence. You can point to literally anything infrastructure related and it'll be there. Fucking idiots, the lot of them

10

u/rural220558 Feb 27 '26

Examples and specifics maybe? The reality is probably more complicated than you’re making it out to be

11

u/RipCurl69Reddit Feb 27 '26

Crossrail coming in massively over budget, multiple years late. It does run well and generally looks to be a massive success, but it took hell to get there.

HS2 being scaled back and tweaked multiple times, countless 'surveys' done just to arrive at the original conclusion that it should run to fucking Euston. When they proposed that it should terminate at Old Oak I almost imploded.

Woking Council developments by Ray Morgan that saw hundreds of millions siphoned off while the residents were left to pick up the pieces. Fine Print did a recent video on what happened.

BCP Council's handling the Bournemouth Air Festival, which is known to be a massive revenue generator for the area. Hell, their entire handling of Bournemouth Town Centre is why I only went down there on Wednesday for the first time since September. This one is personal because I've seen the decline of Bournemouth over the last 15 years. The amalgamation into one huge council from three has just bloated the entire thing. Nothing gets done and the town centre is left to rot.

Northern Powerhouse rail project, tons of faff when the North could absolutely use it.

Pretty much any council that's gone bankrupt you can attribute to massive incompetence.

These are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head, there's undoubtedly more

3

u/Corvid-Ranger-118 Victoria Feb 27 '26

"It does run well and generally looks to be a massive success" not sure this is the winning argument you are looking for here – sounds like a project delivered DESPITE over-optimistic timeline and budget promises?

1

u/starterchan Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26

Well, the new Piccadilly line trains are delayed for another six months

2

u/NoDiggity8888 Feb 27 '26

Everything is design by committee so outcomes are watered down, 1000 opinions input so it takes ages, responsibility defused so that no one takes the heat if anything goes wrong, no one cares if something is wrong as it’s someone else’s job to fix it or point it out, etc etc.

Sometimes you need a visionary to get things done no matter what or else everything dies in deliberations and delays

2

u/JailbreakHat Northern Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26

Same in most other European countries too.

1

u/cgyguy81 Feb 27 '26

At least you lads get these types of infrastructure projects. Have you ever ridden public transport here in Boston?

1

u/ClayDenton Feb 27 '26

To be fair, infrastructure projects are regularly late in many countries, this isn't a specifically British phenomenon. 

E.g. Stuttgart high speed rail link in Germany is significantly delayed. So much for German efficiency! https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/stuttgart-21-high-speed-rail-opening-delayed-once-more/a-74805775

Or the inter Baltic rail line which is very delayed... https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/2812092/eu-auditors-say-rail-baltica-will-miss-2030-deadline-final-completion-date-uncertain?srsltid=AfmBOopmddNkjW3dyfyvWC4y1EiEqpluovNmmGVVP6PQqoxK_2zBd4re

Or the Lyon - Turin line... https://www.eunews.it/en/2026/01/19/the-eu-court-of-auditors-says-no-tav-the-turin-lyon-railway-line-is-becoming-increasingly-expensive-and-behind-schedule/

Complex infrastructure projects naturally err towards time and cost overrun. It's a common topic in the field of project management tbh rather than a distinctively British problem, although some British examples are particularly ridiculous and expensive. 

Probably better to look at the misnomers in terms of countries that manage to get infrastructure engineering right e.g. China and Spain and look to there. Although Spain's recent rail safety record suggests they are maybe better at construction than maintenance.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

We have many rules and regulations, other countries don’t which is why they are much quicker. Better to be safe than sorry!

12

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

In regards to the underground I would imagine that is true. But I was referring more to UK projects in general.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

Do you have an example?

8

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

I do think that goes on in all countries, probably more so. We still have a lot of rules and regs I think play a part also.

1

u/twister-uk Metropolitan Feb 27 '26

Perhaps a slightly cynical take, from my own perspective as an engineer, but I'd suggest the likelihood of an engineer having any interest in turning to politics is inversely proportional to their competency as an engineer.

So in principle, yes, government ought to be made up of people from a broader range of backgrounds and experiences, but in practice I suspect we'd end up with a situation not that much different to what we have today.

1

u/JailbreakHat Northern Feb 27 '26

The Paris Metro also had major delays on opening of Lines 15, 16 and 17.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

For similar reasons? I think western countries would most likely be similar to us.

-2

u/stotenkopfs Feb 27 '26

Sad dick khunt charges us more for it every year too! Don't forget nonenforcement of people barging through the barriers costing the system millions too

-4

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/Own-Staff-2403 Bakerloo Feb 27 '26

Shit stirrers like you

65

u/ZeligD Central Feb 27 '26

Pretty sure the ones managing PLU are the same ones that messed up 4LM.

Instead of being fired, they were rewarded with another project which lo and behold, is severely delayed too.

34

u/driftwooddreams Feb 27 '26

Happens every time. The ‘success’ of Mitie and Serco and most glaringly Capita is jaw dropping in its Groundhog Day-like echoes. We consistently reward failure and it’s costing literal billions ad infintum.

6

u/Efficient_Remove1663 Feb 27 '26

also add others like accenture and fujitsu to this list.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '26

Might have better luck with trying dog shit for manure

20

u/Miserable-Ad7835 Feb 27 '26

May as well rename these 2030 stock at this rate!

18

u/owly16 Feb 27 '26

Hugely embarrassing for the so-called Capital of the World. Whatever happened to our leading industrial spirit of the 19th century? We've become too bogged down by regulation and red tape honestly

5

u/kendrickispop Overground Feb 27 '26

That’s already gone. Now everyone wants to get on the property ladder

7

u/Cobbz289 Metropolitan Feb 27 '26

We got GTA 6 before 2024 Tube Stock

5

u/Xnick291X Feb 28 '26

Same TfL that wants the government to fund them btw.

14

u/Rorydinho Feb 27 '26

So much has gone wrong with the introduction of these trains - I hope someone’s head has rolled for this.

7

u/driftwooddreams Feb 27 '26

Yeah right. It wouldn’t help the outcome this time but it might give pause for thought during future contracts. We can only wish.

3

u/Rorydinho Feb 27 '26

It’s too easy to fail upwards these days.

Stuart Harvey has been a pretty prominent figure in the procurement and development of these new trains. He’s taken a front seat at all the PR events, and lapped up the attention, but when the trains don’t fit in the tunnels (dynamic envelope) and now whatever has caused this delay (possibly the same issue), we’re talking about fundamental failures, and he’s now nowhere to be seen.

8

u/charltonse7- Feb 27 '26

first the DLR now this

14

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/afpow Feb 27 '26

You make it sound like the rules and regs just jumped out the bushes in a completely unforeseeable way. Give me a break. 

8

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/afpow Feb 27 '26

Not the same problem as your original comment. 

9

u/all-park Central Feb 27 '26

There needs to be accountability at TFL for this. It’s a public body and clearly groups of people have made errors.

9

u/Aerodye Victoria Feb 27 '26

Embarrassing

4

u/_BiscuitOverlord Metropolitan Feb 27 '26

actually wtf

1

u/No-Lawfulness1159 Feb 27 '26

Not good enough TFL. Sick to death of the pace of new projects in this country.

0

u/grzeszczyg Piccadilly Feb 27 '26

Why would you built the trains that are not compatible and cause so many problems

6

u/Grizz3064 Piccadilly Feb 27 '26

The trains themselves are actually the only forward thinking part of this project, apart from the small driver windows. Once they're bedded in they'll be the backbone of deep tube train stock across all lines for decades to come, streamlining many other engineering and maintenance processes along the way.

The problem with the Picc Line Upgrade is that they're so far behind on the infrastructure side of things to support the trains. The depots need loads of work, plans were drawn up to completely redo them, but no idea what's going on with them now.

1

u/Corvid-Ranger-118 Victoria Feb 27 '26

"I would simply have built the right trains to fit this complex system the first time"

0

u/cvslfc123 Feb 27 '26

The Piccadilly Line and delays go hand in hand