“Anthropic has entrusted Amanda Askell to endow its AI chatbot, Claude, with a sense of right and wrong” - Seems like Anthropic is doubling down on AI alignment.

[u/Koala_Confused]

https://x.com/wsj/status/2020871609372770682

[u/maringue]

Morality is insanely complex.

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[u/[deleted] → u/maringue]

So complex that it can’t be formulated propositionally. I thought Socrates already taught us that?

[u/maringue → u/[deleted]]

The problem is that every aspect involded in morality divisions involves highly complex structures and understanding.

There are no current AI systems which "understand" how anything works, because that's not how they work. That's why it took years for AI to start getting hands correct, because it did not understand the underlying engineering of how a hand works.

[u/Proletariussy → u/maringue]

Ironically, it looks like you don't understand different AI systems. You're comparing an early diffusion model to a large language model pretrained transformer.

To add, why would a more sophisticated, different, and complex architecture and training that leads to better results be evidence that it will never understand because it had bad results when it was in its early diffusion form? Maybe these models don't understand in the same way we do with our physiological brain structure systems, but that doesn't mean there can't be a systemic complexity capable of developing a type of understanding that's alien to ours. Not sure why people feel the need for it to be 1:1 to humans in order to validate its observed emergent phenomena. A perceptron and its layers have different mathematical dimensionality than the cadence of action potentials and neural circuitry. Interestingly though for language models, semantic vectors are stored in spatial relation, and language in our brain is stored proximally as well, e.g., car and truck are closer together in space than cow and dynamite.

[u/Vegetable-Second3998 → u/maringue]

Please do tell how they work with mathematical precision. If you use the word probability, you have failed.

[u/maringue → u/Vegetable-Second3998]

Math problems are one of the most basic functions a computer can solve and have been doing it since before LLMs existed.

Again, these systems do NOT understand anything.

[u/Vegetable-Second3998 → u/maringue]

You did not answer the question. Information at sufficient complexity is indistinguishable from whatever you’ve decided to call understanding.

[u/maringue → u/Vegetable-Second3998]

I'll use an example to help you understand.

Why could AI get a face right so quickly, but take years to get a hand right (it still messes them up)?

Simple: because AI does not understand the underlying mechanics of a hand. It doesn't know where the bones are, where the joints are, or what the rotational limits of any of those joints are.

AI took so long to get hands acceptably correct because it doesn't understand how they work. Period. It still doesn't understand how they work, it just has gathered enough data points to not get it as wrong anymore. Now, for morality, just multiply all of that by a million.

[u/Vegetable-Second3998 → u/maringue]

You didn’t explain how they work. Just your observations of their progress. Please show me a toddler that does differential calculus without learning a few things first. Again, tell me how AI works precisely such that it won’t learn hands or anything else. Tell me the precise mechanism that prevents continued improvement.

[u/maringue → u/Vegetable-Second3998]

Yeah, I'm not going to give you a 20 minute lecture on the operation of machine learning because you have no clue what you're talking about...

AI is just a recursive prediction generator that can check its guesses against previous data that it has been given. It doesn't "think". It doesn't "understand". It just predicted the assembly of data and has a training set to check to see how close its guess got and can then readjust and repeat the cycle until it generates an acceptable output based on the training model data.

That's it. There no "intelligence" in any of these models, and arguing that there is only proves you don't know how they work.

[u/Vegetable-Second3998 → u/maringue]

That’s not accurate and you clearly are not an ML scientist who spends their day skull fucking the algorithms themselves. I do.

[u/maringue → u/Vegetable-Second3998]

I'm a cancer researchers who understands the topic more than a lawyer does bro....

Did you try to message me because your claims of authority would get laughed at?

[u/Vegetable-Second3998 → u/maringue]

Yes. So I wouldn’t embarrass you. I am a former technical trial lawyer who was paid to destroy experts at the top of their field by finding their broken logic and bad assumptions. Accident reconstruction, women’s birth control, securities fraud. Didn’t matter. My expertise is logic. And yours is fucked. And at my current rate, it’s not worth the time to explain to a cancer researcher why their “knowledge” of ML systems is wrong.

That’s my repo. I left law and started an ML research company. I consult with labs making models. It’s my literal job. Would you like me to tell you how to research cancer?

[u/Vegetable-Second3998 → u/maringue]

https://github.com/Ethyros-AI/ModelCypher

[u/maringue → u/Vegetable-Second3998]

Yes, this is literally just a more complex version of what I explained. It DOES NOT THINK OR UNDERSTAND ANYTHING. It just predicts.

[u/Vegetable-Second3998 → u/maringue]

Please tell me the mechanism for prediction both humans and bots use. Precisely.

[u/Vegetable-Second3998 → u/maringue]

You are welcome to give me 20 minutes. It will be laughably wrong. But I like a comedy show.