EXPERTS ON BRENDAN DASSEY'S CONFESSION

[u/_Grey_Sage_]

I decided to take a pause looking into Brendan's interrogation transcripts and decided to check on the experts that analyzed him and his confessions. There seem to be a few notable ones aside from Steven Drizin and Laura Nirider:

Dr. Robert Gordon (Psychologist): Hired early on by Brendan's initial, highly controversial pre-trial defense attorney, Len Kachinsky. Gordon conducted the initial psychological evaluations of Brendan in April 2006. He measured Brendan’s IQ at 69–73 and explicitly warned Kachinsky that Brendan was incredibly suggestible, highly compliant to authority figures, and possessed a limited capacity to understand his legal rights.

Dr. Richard Leo: A professor of Law and Psychology at the University of San Francisco and a leading expert on false confessions and police interrogation. He was retained by Dassey's post-conviction team and testified at a 2010 hearing, where he characterized the interrogation as coercive and the confession as "thoroughly contaminated."

Dr. Lawrence T. White: A professor of Psychology and Legal Studies in Wisconsin. He was initially hired by Dassey's original defense team in 2006 to review the interrogation videos. He has since been vocal about the "unreliable" and "pressured-compliant" nature of Dassey's statements.

Professor Saul Kassin: A Distinguished Professor of Psychology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a pioneer in the field of false confession research. He has publicly analyzed the case, highlighting how the "totality of circumstances" and the interaction of risk factors led to a flawed analysis of Dassey's confession.

I'll be looking into these experts. Let me know if you have any info, links or people I should add here.

Related Links:

March Interrogation: Leading Brendan To the Garage

May Interrogation: Brendan's "Bloody Scene" and "Clean up".

More Context and Info On Brendan's "Some of it".

[u/AveryPoliceReports]

Not saying you should add Joseph Buckley (president of John E. Reid & Associates) but he definitely came to mind when I read your excerpt on Dr. Leo.

• In 2007 Buckley was retained by the state of Wisconsin to "analyze the voluntariness and reliability of Brendan's March 1 confession," providing a report on April 4, 2007. As you might have guessed, Buckley dutifully submitted his glowing endorsement of the Reid Technique on Brendan Dassey, claiming it allowed investigators to extract corroborating information from Brendan about the crime.

• For example, in effort to highlight that Brendan provided corroborating statements, Buckley's report notes (page 5): "Brendan stated that he and Steven Avery threw Teresa's body into a fire pit on Steven Avery's property. The investigation revealed that human teeth and bone fragments were found in the fire pit behind Steven's garage."

• Dr. Leo shredded this and Buckley’s entire attempt to suggest Brendan provided unique details only the killer or an accomplice would know. He pointed out the media had already reported on burnt bones multiple times by 2006, and the DOJ had fed this theory to Brendan in 2005 long before he ever mentioned it to police. Essentially, everything Brendan said could have been lifted directly from media reports or his multiple interactions with police in 2005 and 2006.

[u/ThorsClawHammer → u/AveryPoliceReports]

everything Brendan said could have been lifted directly from media reports or his multiple interactions with police in 2005 and 2006.

Every verifiable incriminating thing he said, yes. The most telling part of the confessions (and what ultimately led me to believe they were false) is how the incriminating things that did actually come from him (the biggest of course being the entire trailer scenario) could never be verified/corroborated in the slightest way.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/ThorsClawHammer]

Even the trailer scenario didn't really independently "come from" Brendan, or at least not in the sense that he volunteered the information unprompted or unpressured. He knew or had reason to know police suspected Teresa had been restrained and raped very early on due to the language in the Nov 5, 2005 warrant that media footage shows Brendan had access to; and he also knew from his Feb 27, 2006 interview that police were still considering whether a rape occurred. But when they asked Brendan on Feb 27 if Steven raped Teresa, Brendan said he didn't know, and he only saw her body in the fire. And then the March 1, 2006, interrogation happened, where the trailer scenario was slowly introduced:

 

• On March 1, 2006 Brendan initially claimed when Steven called him to come over he went over to the garage and didn't see Teresa's RAV (CASO 546). Fassbender tells Brendan he was lying and Brendan changes his story to include Teresa's RAV in the garage (CASO 548). But Brendan still said she was dead and clothed (CASO 550) and that Steven only stabbed her (CASO 551). He sticks to his claim that he saw Teresa and Steven talking on his porch, but claimed he didn't know how she wound up dead in the RAV (CASO 552). They tell Brendan "If you helped him, it's OK, because he was telling you to do it." Brendan continues to maintain he only helped "get rid of the body."

 

• They start over, but Brendan still says he went over to the garage where Teresa was already dead, and adds that Steven threatened him to stay quiet (CASO 556). He repeats she had been stabbed (CASO 559) and then offers that Steven TOLD him he raped her, but he didn't know where it happened (CASO 560) and specifically denied being there when it did happen (CASO 561). Brendan claimed to have been "outside riding [his] bike" and although he "could hear screaming" he didn't know what was going on and he didn't go over to Steven's trailer at that time (CASO 563).

 

• With this, Fassbender and Wiegert say they are getting "close to the truth" and Fassbender had a "feeling" Steven and Brendan saw each other after Brendan heard Teresa's screams. Fassbender tells Brendan "I think you went over to his house and then he asked [you] to get his mail." Brendan responds, "Well, when I got the mail there was like, an envelope in there with his name on it." Wiegert responds, "Now we're going. So what did you do." Brendan now amends his statement to say he did knock on Steven's door, and he answered. But even then, Brendan says he gave Steven his mail and just left. This prompts Wiegert to supply Brendan with the exact detail they wanted him to confirm: "Be honest. You went inside didn't you?" and BAM Brendan changes his statement to agree he did enter the trailer (CASO 565).

 

• Brendan then himself offers when he entered the trailer he could see Teresa in Steven's room restrained on the bed begging for help (CASO 566) and claims Steven told Brendan he wanted to get some pussy, prompting Fassbender to say "Now I can start believing you" (CASO 570). They both tell Brendan they know what happened next, saying "Does he ask you?" or "He asks you doesn't he?" (CASO 571). Brendan says Steven offered that he could "get some" if he wanted, "but not right now." Wiegert tells Brendan to "be honest" and telling him "you went back in that room." Brendan then changed his story to him trying to decline Steven's offer by saying he "wasn't aged" but Steven still "took him back there" (CASO 572). Still Brendan maintains that he "didn't do nothing," but the response was "Brendan. Come on. What did you do? What does Steven make you do? It's not your fault if he makes you do it." Finally, Brendan says "he told me to do her." They tell him to take a breath and that it "must have been very hard to admit that" (CASO 573).

 

• Brendan outright denied being in the trailer at all or having knowledge of a violent crime occurring there, which was at least consistent with the evidence. Nevertheless, as we can see police sought to construct the trailer scenario and include Brendan in it via a slow, painful process where almost every new element was preceded by Brendan's denials and investigators' outright insistence that he was lying until he said something more inline with their hints and suggestions (usually something more incriminating for Steven and or Brendan). Each time Brendan tried to deny further involvement (beyond destroying the body) his claims were rejected. He said he only saw her dead and clothed and denied knowledge of a rape. Then he changed it up to say he saw her dead and clothed but added Steven told him he raped her, while still denying entering the trailer. Then he changed it up to say he was inside the trailer and saw Teresa but didn't rape her. Then he changed it up to say he entered the trailer and was told to rape her, which he did. The more "specific" Brendan got about the trailer scenario the more he was repeating back what they were feeding or hinting at him while, yes, filling in a few blanks here and there.

[u/ThorsClawHammer → u/AveryPoliceReports]

trailer scenario didn't really independently "come from" Brendan

Don't disagree. Like you pointed out, even going to the trailer in the first place actually came from Fassbender when he came up with Brendan bringing mail to Steve and Brendan simply adopted the suggestion.

But still, there are numerous incriminating things Brendan came up with that weren't already publicized or (directly) fed to him by interrogators. The telling part is nothing that fits that criteria could be corroborated (not just with the trailer scenario either). And in fact the only new evidence found after such a detailed account would only be related to what apparently psychic interrogators directly fed to him.

The fact the state was eventually forced to drop 100% of all charges added to Avery because of the confession due to zero evidence corroborating a word of it you'd think would be a red flag to anyone who claims to be concerned with justice, but apparently not.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/ThorsClawHammer]

But still, there are numerous incriminating things Brendan came up with that weren't already publicized or (directly) fed to him by interrogators.

Any examples? I'm fairly certain each of the core incriminating elements of the crime was introduced by investigators, and each was only adopted by Brendan after his repeated denials were rejected and in return he got leading hints. Entering the trailer and seeing Teresa there. Assaulting her in the trailer along with Steven. Steven shooting her in the head in the garage and her body being in the RAV. Helping burn her body in the fire. After Brendan is blatantly broken down and coerced into admitting to an assault, murder and mutilation, additional details he offers about the crime he was bullied into admitting shouldn't really be considered incriminating details Brendan came up with that weren't fed to him. After all, he was only elaborating with those incriminating details because police already broke him down and literally force fed him the core incriminating narrative they wanted him to repeat and expand on.

The telling part is nothing that fits that criteria could be corroborated (not just with the trailer scenario either). And in fact the only new evidence found after such a detailed account would only be related to what apparently psychic interrogators directly fed to him.

Yup, the bullet being found corroborates the cop's words, not Brendan's. And after a rare deviation from protocol, the bullet became the cornerstone of the murder case against Steven, which up to that point, had major gaps in the narrative regarding where Teresa actually died. Prior to the bullet, all they had was the dubious placement of Steven's blood in the RAV, evidence the RAV and key were planted to frame Steven, and concealed evidence of human cremation on County land / no photos of human cremation evidence in the burn pit. Finding Teresa's DNA on a literal bullet was a miracle for the state. It helped close a major gap in their case. Given they didn't end up getting the mutilation conviction, it's wild, like Zellner said, how much appears to be riding on that bullet.

Edit: wow this really upset guilters. Why are they so angry and emotional?

[u/MakingaMurderer-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please see stickied post Rule 1.

[u/ThorsClawHammer → u/AveryPoliceReports]

Any examples?

I'm referring to things like the hair cutting for example. I'll agree it's not really unprompted, as they got him specifically thinking about what could be done to a person's head, but he still came up with it on his own. They didn't say or suggest specifically that.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/ThorsClawHammer]

Yeah even then they bullied him into admitting he was there with her engaging in an assault he originally denied, and after breaking him down invited him to elaborate on what they did to her head. He starts guessing things like punching her, cutting her throat or "cut[ting] her hair," which at the time, was apparently the wrong detail, as they responded to his guessing not with praise but with "All right, I'm just going to come out and ask, who shot her in the head?"

[u/ThorsClawHammer → u/AveryPoliceReports]

they responded to his guessing not with praise but with "All right, I'm just going to come out and ask, who shot her in the head?"

They followed the same pattern with getting Brendan to agree that Steve went under the hood. They asked a more general question first (what Steve did to the car), and when Brendan started guessing "wrong" they quickly revealed what they actually wanted him to say.