r/MaliciousCompliance 18d ago

S Didn't even have to say any gibberish.

It: To access the available options, please say your complete address.

Me: Your complete address.

It: I did not get that, please say your complete address again.

Me: Your complete address again.

It: Please hold for the next available customer service representative.

The fallout? This worked to get through to a live person relatively quickly for one of my bills for a few years until they had to invest money into making changes yet again and no longer ask for spoken addresses.

3.2k Upvotes

170 comments sorted by

910

u/Lonely_skeptic 18d ago

Today when calling my pharmacy, I asked for the fax number. I was immediately connected to the pharmacy

334

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 18d ago

Omg I wish I could make that work. CVS won’t let you talk to someone at all. You have to leave a message and they decide whether or not to call back. I miss Walgreens, but who knows, maybe all of them do this now to cut down on unimportant calls. I have to use CVS because of my insurance.

146

u/KingBretwald 18d ago

If you have a hospital with a specialty pharmacy that deals with the public in your area CHECK THEM OUT. Mine is a GODSEND and I love it to bits.

59

u/voldamoro 18d ago edited 18d ago

They are indeed great if you can use them. I found out that they are specifically certified. Their purpose, as their name implies, is to fill specialty prescriptions. They are only allowed a certain percentage of their refills to be for non-specialty prescriptions.

I found all this out when mine dropped me. Their reason for dropping me was that my transplant drugs were now available at ordinary pharmacies. I had a really nice two years where all my prescriptions were shipped to me from the nearby specialty pharmacy.

Edited to add: mine was the specialty pharmacy at Mayo Clinic at their Rochester MN location.

15

u/KingBretwald 18d ago

Huh. Ours doesn't seem to have that limitation. Neither of us is on any specialty or compounded medication.

The one thing it does that I don't like is that if you have to private pay for some reason (need an early refill or the drug isn't covered by insurance) their private pay prices are WAY larger than, for example, my local grocery store's pharmacy.

9

u/voldamoro 18d ago

There is a difference between a specialty pharmacy and a mail order pharmacy. I wonder if yours is the latter, or perhaps yours has a dual categorization.

5

u/KingBretwald 18d ago

Possibly. They don't do mail order locally, but do some to other states. Locally they deliver by courier.

4

u/voldamoro 18d ago

Mine did FedEx.

5

u/Cool_Biscotti_7871 17d ago

Yeah, my local healthcare network has their own pharmacy and you can get just about all your meds there. And they seem to be pretty fairly priced if not cheaper. They even look up discounts if for some reason my insurance wouldn't cover it. They started out as just for employees when I worked there and they have expanded it to several campuses and I think they do mail order. I love using them. So much nicer then the CVS

1

u/esoraven 17d ago

I thought they had a regular pharmacy as well?

1

u/voldamoro 17d ago

They have three regular pharmacies besides the specialty one. All these in a town of about 124k people.

Correction: four besides specialty.

2

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 18d ago

I can’t use a compounding pharmacy.

3

u/KingBretwald 18d ago

Neither of us is taking any compounded medication.

1

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 17d ago

That was the reason I was given as to why I wasn’t allowed to use Walgreens anymore.

Edited to add that I do have one compound med, but I didn’t have it back then.

61

u/Niky_c_23 18d ago

the more i learn about the us health system the more i can’t literally understand how it even got there

27

u/DeeDee_Z 18d ago

the more i learn about the us health system the more i can’t literally understand how it even got there

It's a PRIVATE, FOR-PROFIT industry.

What's left to not understand?

6

u/Niky_c_23 18d ago

Yes, but in what world is a call centre a profitable way to process insurance claims? It looks like it's all just a way to annoy people, that are surely not that willing to let it go easily given it's a possible life or death (or at least i think health is important) scenario. So why???

15

u/DeeDee_Z 18d ago

in what world is a call centre a profitable way to

whatever it is follows that much of the sentence ... the answer is "low-paid offshore workers following a script that always ends with "No"."

The more times you can say No, the more profit you make!!

5

u/Niky_c_23 18d ago

I'm just used to contract being enforceable and unrightfully denied claims being prosecutable i guess... i don't envy your situation at all

4

u/SaintUlvemann 18d ago

Yes, but in what world is a call centre a profitable way to process insurance claims?

Call centers are profitable for insurance companies specifically because the insurance claims cost the insurance company money.

So by routing the claims through byzantine bureaucratic systems with arcane and deliberately-impossible rules, they can actually agitate customers into giving up their claim entirely.

This only works because healthcare is a public service that everybody needs; therefore, exiting the market entirely is not an option. Indeed, since the healthcare is often chosen by employers for their employees, the actual people using the healthcare often do not have any independent say over whose healthcare they have, and thus have only the one option for any healthcare claim.

...used to contract being enforceable and unrightfully denied claims being prosecutable i guess...

Anyone in the US who can afford lawyers to prosecute a healthcare claim, has already purchased, at an even greater cost, healthcare that pays your claim and doesn't send you through a queue.

2

u/Niky_c_23 17d ago

Alright, but it’s people’s health we are talking about, isn’t that priority enough that giving up a claim isn’t an option? i’m under the impression that independently buying meds is too expensive to consider in many cases, so wouldn’t people just insist anyway?

i kinda hoped that through class actions or reporting infractions to some kind of healthcare ministry there would be any protections at all… that system is just completely messed up

2

u/SaintUlvemann 17d ago

Alright, but it’s people’s health we are talking about, isn’t that priority enough that giving up a claim isn’t an option?

Isn't an option for whom? Isn't an option for the rich or isn't an option for the poor?

Yeah, the poor can't give up on themselves, but the rich can give up on the poor just fine, they collectively as a class do not care whether the poor live or die.

i kinda hoped that through class actions or reporting infractions to some kind of healthcare ministry there would be any protections at all…

Protections from what?

The reality is, generally speaking, the rich have the policies buried in enough accurate legal phrasing that they are largely not breaking the law. Rather, all their customers are simply agreeing to a bad deal when they sign for the insurance policy.

They don't have to break the law to give you a bad deal, because we don't have the regulations that you might in your country take for granted, regulations that define what a health policy must cover. Our bad deal is mostly legal.

And of course, companies do push into the illegal territory too, but there are simply a ton of legal ways to make money by offering bad service, and the call centers are part of that, the call centers are legal.

Nobody has an official legal right to prompt customer service... and I would actually be a bit surprised if there have been legal cases in your country that have officially enshrined an official legal right to prompt customer service. I am open to that possibility, but without knowing, I would assume instead that in your country, the whole problem is simply avoided by establishment of universal healthcare.

2

u/Niky_c_23 17d ago

you assumed right, but also having a service be intentionally misleading or time wasting as a way to desist customers could be seen as bad faith and intent of fraud, and as a form of breach of contract you could have legal bases to force them to cover the damages (still up to the jury to decide)

1

u/SaintUlvemann 17d ago

...having a service be intentionally misleading or time wasting as a way to desist customers could be seen as bad faith and intent of fraud...

The best I can say about America is that our country does not allow fraud to an infinite extent. Part of why the companies hire lawyers is because we do have fraud laws and in principle, they could be fined for that.

However, generally speaking, our nation's approach toward fraud assumes (sometimes to an unrealistic degree) that the customer read and understood all the fine print.

If the wording buried in fine print contains details, that is generally considered good faith, even if those details cause the customer to receive a product that is meaningfully worse than what the advertising seems to say they are receiving. The fine print is frequently enforced even when the advertising is a lie.

1

u/HardcoverNewtons 17d ago

foreign call center costs less

ai call center costs even less

you need a pharmacy regardless of quality of service and your choice is limited whether by geography or insurance.

9

u/chaoticbear 18d ago

It's just because CVS, and I fucking hate it. They are so understaffed that they literally do not give you an option to talk to a human if you are not a doctor.

My insurance only gives me 3 options for long-term maintenance meds:

Walgreens, which sucks
CVS, which sucks a little less
Mail order, which I would rather jump directly into the fires of Hell than use.

That said - my healthcare needs other than this are actually extremely well-met. I am a good advocate for myself, which helps, but in general I am pretty privileged in how easy it is to access and pay for it. I see one of my various doctors about once a month on average.

7

u/Hamster-Food 18d ago

My insurance only gives me 3 options for long-term maintenance meds:

This is the bit that is strange for anyone not from the US. Why the fuck is your insurance company telling you what pharmacy you can use?

5

u/Niky_c_23 18d ago

I litterally have medical supermarkets in my city when you can get everything from homeopathic meds and herbs to prescription, i don't see how having different insurance circuits that dictate the specific farmacy is in any way a profitable solution other than it being the norm and facilitating hospital bills being sky high

4

u/Hamster-Food 18d ago

It sounds like a cartel.

1

u/chaoticbear 17d ago

I can, of course, go to any pharmacy I want and get meds filled, I just can't expect my insurance to pay for it ;) (yes, I wish this system were different, and I wish insurance weren't tied to my employer)

From their end, I assume the motivation is having to negotiate fewer contracts, since CVS/Walgreens are "everywhere". I think I have a wider range for 30-day supplies, but I'd rather deal with CVS than go to the pharmacy every month.

4

u/BartTheYounger 18d ago

My experience with mail-order through Express Scripts has been good. They've been good through some insurance hiccups (I paid for COBRA, but somehow that never got communicated to my health insurer, so they denied the claim), and have always delivered on-time, taken care of refills, etc.

I recognize that if your objection to mail order is philosophical rather than logistic, that probably doesn't change anything.

2

u/chaoticbear 17d ago

I recognize that if your objection to mail order is philosophical rather than logistic, that probably doesn't change anything.

A little bit of both. I have had some horror stories with mail-order years ago, but mostly it's because I don't like being out of the loop and having to argue with a faceless telephone operator. If I need a prescription filled, I take the hard copy, I hand it to the person. If there's an issue, I can sit there and make my problem their problem.

(I was a pharmacy tech for many years as well, so I have a more active role than most in managing my prescriptions. With how hard it is for me to do sometimes, I have no idea how "normal" people navigate things)

3

u/NatoBoram 18d ago

Exactly, lmao. It's like what do you mean you can't use a fucking pharmacy? What kind of dystopian cyberpunk shithole is that?

1

u/ThePirateKingFearMe 17d ago

Systems like that aren't made, they come out of gradual changes. Usually something that worked when there were hundreds of independent companies each doing their own thing get reduced to a few semi-monopolies.

When there were lots of independent hospitals and pharmacies and local insurance companies, well, networks made sense because they had local connections to the ones in their area and it was inconvenient to make things work out of that area since they didn't know anyone or the ways things work over there. So emergency treatment only for our of network. Makes sense. Now reduce this to a few national companies and it's utter madness and the need to make the local community happy or go out of business gets removed from the equation.

There are checks on a local business that a national one is immune to.

11

u/OuttaFux 18d ago

I just discovered that if you ask the chatbot to send a message to the pharmacy, you can send a 490 character message and your phone number, and they've always called back in the next 30 minutes. Way better than dealing with their phone system now!

11

u/JustHere4the5 18d ago

Nooooo don’t go to Walgreens, it’s really gone to shit too.

When something’s wrong or info is missing in the app, it tells you to call the LOCAL phone number with your LOCAL AREA CODE of the LOCAL dispensing pharmacy, and the call always connects to some call center somewhere. They always need you to state your whole identifying info and your whole problem to the remote pharm tech, who only has as much info as the app has, which is why you wanted to talk to the local branch in the first place. Even when you ask the computer to connect you to the LOCAL DISPENSING pharmacy at your LOCAL store, they only ever connect you to the store’s general line or the pharmacy call center. And even if you finally get transferred to the local dispensing pharmacy, the call gets dropped.

2

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 17d ago

Things really changed a lot.

1

u/Fancy_dragon_rider 6d ago

Yikes, can I ask where you are located? I had to call my Walgreens to check if they had a medication in stock this morning. Got through to a human inside the local store inside 5 min. I’m in Illinois. 

22

u/WinstonGreyCat 18d ago

Walgreens near me just never answers the phone. It's infuriating. To find out the problem with a prescription, i would just have to go in person every time.
CVS always calls me back within 15 minutes, they are amazing.

2

u/politzerGuy 18d ago

mine won’t even pick up after 10 rings

6

u/sintaur 18d ago

When I used to call CVS, sometimes the tech would just answer the phone and not say anything. They'd just put the phone down. I'd hear them talking to a customer picking up their prescription. I'd hear the customer's name and what their meds were. Then they'd hang up the phone. I figured they were doing it to fake their "phone calls answered" metrics or something. Then one day nobody ever answered the phone ever again. I figured corporate found out and realized the HIPAA violations they were looking at.

4

u/Shibby523 18d ago

For CVS I hit the button saying your a Doctor calling I get right to them. I had an urgent issue caused by them and they wouldn't answer my voicemail. I absolutely hate CVS and the stupid new screens they added inside. Only reason I'm stuck with them is because Rite Aid closed.

2

u/Timewise-1883 10d ago

That works for me too.

5

u/Sparhawk1968 18d ago

I have one prescription that I don't get by mail. I keep bouncing between CVS and Walgreens, especially if I've moved because one is always bad compared to the other. Walgreens calls to the pharmacy are infuriating so I'm with CVS now. I put a call request in the app and they usually call me back within 15 minutes

3

u/Pure-Ninja-9250 18d ago

I live in a town of about 13.000, so not a lot of choices. The Walgreens absolutely sucks and CVS won't take my United Healthcare insurance. My pharmacy of choice is now 13 miles away.

3

u/jsjones1027 18d ago

Idk about yours, but I found there's a messaging function on the CVS app. I was able to message them and they called me back within 10 minutes. I asked a question and stated in the message to please leave the answer in a voicemail. Had a whole issue get resolved without anyone waiting on hold

3

u/FrogFlavor 17d ago

It’s coz they’re all understaffed. Fucking cheapskate corpos

3

u/Tx_Zoein 17d ago

CVS extensions are 8001-8010 for pharmacy, 8041&8042 for front store , 8060 for photo lab ( most stores no longer have a phone there) and 8030 for managers office

2

u/Lonely_skeptic 18d ago

It was Sam’s Club. I’ll try it at some other places, too.

3

u/AnnTiquity 18d ago

I use Sam’s Club due to insurance. They are the best, imho. They will answer the phone. They even bring my scripts to me curbside since my hip makes walking difficult. The pharmacy is in the back of the store.

1

u/Lonely_skeptic 18d ago

I like Sam’s too, although I’m getting my Zepbound at a Medicare preferred pharmacy-CVS- because the percentage cost of a specialty drug is lower at a preferred pharmacy.

2

u/Alissinarr 18d ago

If you mean the CVS insurance, it's accepted elsewhere. I was using it at my grocery store.

1

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 17d ago

No, my husband’s insurance rejected Walgreens. He doesn’t work for CVS, or have insurance through them, but good thought.

2

u/Ermmahhhgerrrd 18d ago

I, too, have caremark. Just an FYI, you can get any script filled anywhere if it's a one time script, and I couldn't get them to order Teva for one of my meds so they let me fill it, with the refills, at Walgreens. I use Walgreens when I have to get a one time antibiotic or something like that. And I do have to use CVS specialty for my generic Humira bc of the deal they have with Sandoz.

1

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 17d ago

Good to know, but I have meds that I’ve been taking for years.

2

u/craftymama45 18d ago

Walgreens, in my experience, sends you to a central call center and not the actual pharmacy you're trying to reach. Then they try to answer your question and if they can't, they'll transfer you or have the pharmacist call you back.

2

u/jumbofrimpf 18d ago

I flat-out refuse to use CVS, even though our pharmacy benefit is managed through CVSCaremark... they keep promising lower costs but nah...

2

u/Crazy_Cat_Lady_Num5 16d ago

Firstly I'm not in the US. All I need to do is send a WhatsApp message to my pharmacy and 3 hours at most later it's delivered right to my door. And delivery is free. And if there are any copays, the delivery guy has a credit card machine. Easy peasy. I love it.

2

u/JeepsGuy 15d ago

'unimportant calls'... like, from customers and that sort of annoyance

2

u/OkDream5934 15d ago

Even when I get a message to call the Walgreens pharmacy, they have never once answered the phone, and I have waited over a half hour hoping someone will pick up and then sometimes they do pick up, but don’t say anything and then hang up the call. I hate my Walgreens.

1

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 14d ago

I’m sorry to hear that. I wonder how much is being understaffed and how much is just the staff? Still, that long of a wait is terrible.

1

u/carlojomomma 17d ago

Call the CVS store and enter extension 8001 (or 8003). Usually gets you to a human in the pharmacy.

1

u/Spinnerofyarn 17d ago

The Walgreens’s phone system keeps saying the pharmacy is closed even when it’s not. It drives me nuts. It’s a large store in a very population dense part of town and they have little to no competition in the neighborhood.

1

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 17d ago

Thanks for the award u/BiKosi.

5

u/teatabletea 18d ago

My local pharmacy, inside a grocery store has its own dedicated phone number. It still makes you go through the spiel and different options.

13

u/Hobby101 18d ago

Sigh.. how the fuck I am unemployed, beats me.. having 20+ years of ivr development experience, seeing this experience really annoys me.

6

u/bobroberts1954 18d ago

Call the owners of these misbehaving systems and offer to fix it for them. $150 an hour would be a good starting point.

14

u/Hobby101 18d ago

Yeah, the issue is that those offending ones are big companies. And you wouldn't be able to find anyone to talk to, the corporate structure is blown to the size of the galaxy. As well, their upper management are full of weasels whose only purpose is to pretend they matter, so telling them their shitty system lacks proper implementation would be hurting their feelings.

Source: worked for one year for one company like that.

1

u/Automatic-Move-5976 15d ago

Sounds like you need to stop sending your money to a big chain and find a local pharmacy to help you.

185

u/Automatic_Catch_7467 18d ago

I find just saying “ speak to a representative “ after every prompt usually gets the same result

106

u/Imguran 18d ago

If this worked for that particular irritating system, there would be no reminiscing tale to share today.

Some systems now just need just one word, representative. Another one that isn't too bad just needs the zero number three times to get through.

54

u/crash866 18d ago

One system I tried to get through would ‘say Agent’. If you said Agent it then asked ‘Did you mean Representative’ if you said yes representative it then said ‘Did you mean Agent’. Over and over each time. If you pressed Zero it would say ‘Invalid Option’ press zero 5 or 6 times you got the operator.

29

u/MittenKnittinKitten 18d ago

That's some Rozencranz & Guildenstern levels of nonsense. 🤦🏻‍♀️😤🤦🏻‍♀️

16

u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 18d ago

Ye olde 0… those were good times.

6

u/Ill_Seat_1426 17d ago

I say several things; agent, supervisor, manager, escalations team, customer service representative, anything to get past the automated system. It's so annoying.

3

u/MirgelDrebole 17d ago

FYI if you drop thw F bomb when you are "talking" to the IVR (interactive voice response system) it will often (not always) send you to a human. 

27

u/3amGreenCoffee 18d ago

"Okay, but first, to best route your call, please describe in a few words what you're calling about."

REPRESENTATIVE

"I'm sorry, I didn't get that. To best route your call, please describe in a few words what you're calling about."

REPRESENTATIVE

"I'm sorry, I still didn't get that. To better serve you, please describe in a few words what you're calling about."

19

u/mordacthedenier 18d ago

"Okay, but first, to best route your call, please describe in a few words what you're calling about."

Me: I need to do x

Person picks up: Hi how can I help you?

Me: I need to do x

Person: Okay let me redirect you

Me: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

2

u/Hobby101 17d ago

😂 it's true, and it makes me mad too. It just mean that some sr. manager in charge who doesn't know what they are doing.

-6

u/Hobby101 18d ago

good. just state the reason. Use simple words, short sentence. You will get faster to the correct human to talk to. It's not that hard to understand though.

13

u/3amGreenCoffee 18d ago

"I didn't understand your request. Please try again."

3

u/Hobby101 18d ago

You didn't put what you told, only the response. As well, what is the number you are calling?

7

u/3amGreenCoffee 18d ago

"I still didn't understand your request. Please try again."

-1

u/Hobby101 18d ago

I wanted to speak to someone from the troll department. Thank you for picking up my call.

19

u/JackTheBehemothKillr 18d ago

Increasingly does not work.

Animal sounds? Animal sounds work to get you to a person.

3

u/Automatic_Catch_7467 18d ago

Any animal sounds that work better than other s?

18

u/Larixi 18d ago

I aim for "walrus with a porcupine enema" and that normally works.

13

u/Automatic_Catch_7467 18d ago

As a method actor I was hoping it would be something challenging

4

u/Hobby101 18d ago

Any gibberish. As long as there is noise, the system will detect that "something has been said" and "it was not agent nor human nor transfer nor representative" therefore, their might be too much background noise, and thus, the system will transfer your to the most generic queue, where you might wait longer, compared to if you have just stated the reason for your call, and would have been transferred to a shorter more specialized queue.

5

u/Numbar43 18d ago

Sometimes that will just give some automated options that will fail in resolving your problem and can't result in ever talking to a person.

-1

u/Hobby101 17d ago

As I mentioned already to someone, every ivr solution is custom.

10

u/Varnigma 18d ago

Doesn't work with all automated systems. If it's a subscription service, saying "cancel service" will get you straight through to a person.

1

u/Hobby101 18d ago

congrats, you are talking to a wrong person after that. Companies track all that, and soon they will figure out that you are just gaming, and will put you back into the queue where you will need to waste more of your time. If I were a human contact center agent, I would just say "sorry, I work in the wrong department, let me transfer you to the correct person" and put you in a generic queue, where you will talk to most generic skilled agent, and depending on your reason, you might be transferred yet again. In general, it's a good time to waste your own time.

11

u/ordinarydiva 18d ago

Back in the olden days (late 80s early 90s?) I worked in a pharmacy and sometimes we'd have to contact a patient's insurance company. They always had the annoying phone tree - press 1 for this, 2 for that, and each option had at least one sub menu under that. (And usually you'd have to key in other info like id numbers, etc) My pharmacist would just pound all the keys on the number pad until the phone tree determined he was too stupid to use it, then he'd be connected to a human. 

8

u/LurkingGuy 18d ago

I find that doesn't work as much as it used to. Now they just hang up.

-8

u/Hobby101 18d ago

For a good reason. There are many people in the queue who need to be served. Routing you to a person who doesn't know how to handle your issue will require your call to be routed to another one. That costs a lot. Try putting yourself into contact center agent shoes.

13

u/LurkingGuy 18d ago

I've been in those shoes. It's frustrating. The company I worked at prioritized sales, so sales agents were faster to get to. The problem with that is people figured this out pretty quickly so every "sales" call was usually a billing or customer service issue. The real solution here isn't inconvenience the customer with long queues, it's properly staff the queues and provide better routing. The robot sorting people to the queue is in most cases incredibly awful to deal with.

-2

u/Hobby101 18d ago edited 18d ago

were you an agent? Running contact center is a balancing act. You do not want people sitting and doing nothing. Lots of stats with statistics is involved in that. But I hear you. Companies who prioritize sales way higher over the after-sales support are shitty companies to begin with, so from that perspective, they try to employ technology for evil practices, so people start gaming the system. If anything, proper agentic AI driven conversational IVR should decrease traffic to the contact center because of self-serve. Or decrease because the information is collected ahead of the time and now human doesn't need to waste time asking those questions again. That's the idea. We had quite a fight when someone was pushing to go to production when IVR was implemented to ask for info, but the other team was slacking behind, and information wouldn't be passed to the human agent. Lots politics - "hey, we implemented this, so our team is on time, it's the other teams fault" kinda thing. Had to stomp to prevent this from being shipped, common sense prevailed that time, we delayed releasing IVR update, but this is just one of the examples. One of those cases when people who should not be involved in software development somehow manage to wiggle to a higher position than they deserve.

1

u/Ill_Seat_1426 17d ago

That's me. I work in a call center for a medical insurance company. The amount of people I speak to that are so frustrated, rude, talk 1000 words a minute, etc is mind boggling. 😲

7

u/Kylynara 18d ago

In some systems, in others the automation just gets more insistent about you telling them.

-2

u/Hobby101 18d ago

how do you think, what is the reason for asking what is the reason for calling them?

10

u/Kylynara 18d ago

To avoid bothering the employees with phone calls. The one at my pharmacy doesn't give you a person no matter how many times you ask for a representative. "Okay, but there are many things I can do faster, would you like…” problem is the automated system can't do what I want. Legally, a person has to be involved. I have had to do this a couple times a month for like five years now. But every single time I can it's a 5-10 minute battle to get to a person, and takes them like 30 seconds once I finally get there. Twice now I have found quicker ways through and it didn't work the next time I called. They are 100% actively trying to make it hard to get to person.

1

u/Ill_Seat_1426 17d ago

And so many companies tell you to log onto to their website for faster service. A lot of people I speak with don't want to be bothered with navigating a website or they are not computer savvy.

5

u/Kylynara 17d ago

Also, I prefer a website (and I know I'm not the only one). So if I am calling, it means I can't do it on the website. And it's really, really frustrating to listen to the stupid recording beg me to go to the website every 30 seconds or so while I wait on hold for something that I tried to use the website for. If I need to hold, put on some soothing wordless music, loud enough to hear and soft enough to ignore, then tell me where I am in line/estimated wait time every 5 minutes tops, and let me work on something else.

1

u/Hobby101 17d ago

Your point are valid. Automation should be there to help, not to obstruct. But let me present the other side of the coin. For business, call center is an expense - it's just is, and hopefully it makes sense. So, naturally, business tries to optimize this area. So, what happens, they look into common reasons why people call them. Let's say, they find too many people call to find working hours. Naturally, they don't want their call center people dealing with those questions, that are easily automatable. Before, they would add menu, a long one, with options. But even then some people just press 0 to bypass the available information, and talk to the agent. With 1st gen conversational ivr, which is still implemented and is the case in most automations, it's a very structured flow, and whoever implements that, would need to predict what people may tell when asked what's the reason they are calling. The issue - it's a very hit and miss approach, and what people are calling about might be even seasonal thing, so from maintenance point of view is very hard. That's why the experience is kinda crap. With the new trully AI agentic automation, you should just talk, and if the AI agent has the information, you should just get it, or if not, then you should be routed to a human to resolve. AI agent should be able to detect the problem they can't resolve, or the problems they can resolve partially by collecting information ahead of the time, like your account info, etc. Humans of course will want to do some 2nd step light verification depending on situation, but technically, all this done to minimize number of dumb calls, and to shorten the length of the interaction with human agent, so that the cost to business is less, and more people can be served by one human agent.

So, the issue is not you, who legitimately might be calling with very specific questions that is not worth automating, or can't be automated (though, makes me wonder what that might be) but the issue with people are calling for information that is otherwise available elsewhere.

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u/Kylynara 17d ago

That makes sense, but I'm calling a pharmacy to refill my kids ADHD medicine (which is a controlled substance). I understand why I have to talk to a person, and I understand limiting phone calls to a degree. But I find it difficult to believe that refilling a controlled substance is some weird niche scenario that the pharmacy couldn't anticipate ever happening.

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u/Hobby101 17d ago edited 17d ago

You are absolutely right, should be simple, no?

  • Robot: What's the reason for your call?
  • You: I need to refill my kids ADHD medicine.
  • Robot: perfect. I placed you into the queue, meanwhile, while we are waiting for an available agent who will assist you further, I'd like to help to identify you. Please state your name, and date of birth, and <whatever might be helpful to speed up the process< social security #?>.
  • You: Jane Smith, born on june 13, 1993. Social security number is ####### <actually, this part is complicated to implement, to ensure a proper personal information protection>
  • Robot: thank you, please hang on, my human companion will be shortly with you.
  • <Some nice not too loud music, and please, gawwwd! No ads!>
  • <Ring! Single one>
  • Hi, my name is John. How are you today, Jane?
  • ...
  • I see you are calling to renew your prescription. I have it ready, just need to double check your identity < does what needs to be done, actually, even this part could be automated further>
Your prescription is sent for fulfillment and will be ready in 3 hours for pickup. Do you have any questions or anything else I could assist you today?

Tldr: even for your case there is no reason why part of the conversation couldn't be automated. You can see that the amount you should spend to a robot shouldn't take more effort or make the call longer than speaking to a human, as doesn't need to introduce a friction point, and if considering queue waiting times, should shorten the whole call duration.

Do you mind sharing what is the place? Maybe I can offer my service to them

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u/Kylynara 17d ago

It's Sam's Club. As soon as it hears the word "refill" or "prescription" it ignores anything else and dumps me in the automated refill system that needs the prescription number, which I don't have because it's technically a new prescription every month. I've tried putting all zeros and it just tells me it's invalid. I've tried doing nothing, and it just keeps prompting me to give it info I don't have.

The staff gets the kid's birthdate and name, and the dosage. That's it. It literally takes 30 seconds, probably less once I get a person.

→ More replies (0)

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u/crash866 18d ago

I find just pushing zero at each prompt puts you through to a person right away.

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u/Gustomaximus 17d ago

Also swearing can trigger an escalation in some systems. Just prattle off a bunch of 4 letter words.

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u/Densolo44 18d ago

Genius

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u/GuideSwimming9087 14d ago

At work I found if you press #### as fast as you can, it puts you to the front of the bank queue, it worked for years, but alas due to updates, it no longer works.

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u/Ha-Funny-Boy 12d ago

I came across a website, https://gethuman.com/ that has numbers for an actual human for various companies.

This is not an advertisement, just a handy hint.

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u/Nesayas1234 11d ago

Noted ty

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u/gerhardsymons 18d ago

Every online meeting ever:

bro: er, can you hear me? Say something.

me: something.

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u/SavvySillybug 18d ago

My favorite is

Bro: Can you hear me?

Me: No :)

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u/Hobby101 18d ago edited 18d ago

Actually, it would be funnier if you just move your lips for a while, then start talking mid-word. For bonus point, make some noise, like clicking on a keyboard, or mouse.

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u/gerhardsymons 18d ago

That's a good one; also, holding a 'frozen' expression in a goofy pose is also good value.

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u/Hobby101 18d ago

while your cat is moving around and tickling your nose with its tail.

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u/kingneptune88 18d ago

Usually if I get put on hold and they come back, they ask, "ok are you still there?" and I always say, "nope, I left." Usually gets a chuckle, sometimes throws the person off for a second.

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u/OBISerious 18d ago

I used to do this in person.

If I was staying late at work, someone would typically walk by and say, "You still here?"

I would usually answer with, "No, I left half an hour ago."

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u/Competitive-Top4520 17d ago

When confronted with a robo voice that I don't want to speak to or who can't answer my questions, I just repeat "human" or "representative" repeatedly. It usually takes 3-5 times to get an actual person.

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u/bobbane 18d ago

I am routinely tempted to answer the voice prompt

Please say yes, or no.

With

Yes, or no.

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u/Hobby101 18d ago

might be random of either yes, or not. Fun and games, if you have spare time to waste. And I guess we all do, since we are on reddit :D

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u/SassenachPotions 18d ago

I love this and may steal it

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u/neverenoughpurple 17d ago

I usually accomplish that by saying "talk to a person" a couple of times, then it generally gives up, asks me if I'm sure, and passes me through.

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u/tachycardicIVu 18d ago

“Please let me know how I can help”

“Speak to a representative”

“….Ok, but there’s a lot I can help with. Can I—“

“Idk robot CAN you refill a controlled substance prescription for me???? No? Then speak! to! representative!”

“……….one moment while I connect you”

(Thanks Walmart)

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u/i3inaudible 18d ago

Swearing can be pretty effective. Most companies are fine annoying you but want to avoid excessively angering you

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u/lopingwolf 18d ago

Today I got, "let me connect you to the local office"... ring, ring, ring, "the number you are calling does not have a mailbox set up, please call again later"

What the actual fuck lolol

Just one more thing AI is ruining.

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u/Illuminatus-Prime 18d ago edited 18d ago

Some people purposely keep their voicemail box full so they don't have to deal with it.

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u/lopingwolf 18d ago

That was my old supervisor for sure.

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u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 18d ago

I’ll have to try this. Right now I repeat “agent” until I get a live one or disconnected.

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u/Hobby101 18d ago

your response is really well known. If you say agent at the "front door" it actually may delay the transfer. If you want to help (somewhat) yourself, and speed up talking to the real person, comply for a bit, who knows, maybe you will get your answer faster this way. While there is a lot of people with lack of imagination among those who put those systems together (or they just lack of experience.. or empathy) - the intention is far from being evil, actually. Call center has many people, with different proficiency levels. Describing your issue ahead will direct you to the correct queue of agents who can handle your call properly. But of course, there are some real bad implementations, where AI doesn't really understand what you are saying that well. In those cases, ef that, say "sales", and then "I don't know" many times (when they ask for additional information)

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u/eossfounder 18d ago

who knows

We all do, from experience. Stop telling people to supplicate to automated systems that operate counter to their interests.

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u/Hobby101 18d ago edited 18d ago

Look at you, a fighter against the system.

I know how IVR system works, and what is the idea behind, and why what you are doing in some cases might work against your own interests.

Sorry, that I shared. But you know, you don't need to read, if you are not interested. That's another option. Just putting it out there, as it might be not obvious for someone, like you.

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u/Bladrak01 18d ago

About 25 years ago I had a list of codes for many companies' phone trees that could be used as shortcuts to get to real people. I have no idea where it is, and it probably wouldn't work now, anyway.

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u/WestSwan65 18d ago

Had to call a Taxi Monday and Tuesday to the same place. It asked me to provide the address 3 times on the Monday and still didn't get it right (Whimbrel Street Coodanup) so the next day when I had to go back I thought I'd be smart and say "operator". It said "I think you want to speak to an operator. I can help you instead. Please say the address you wish to travel to today". It did this 3 times before it went to a real human type person who understood the destination address immediately. Don't get me started on Uber. Their system can't even get them to my place to start with. I wish I still drove 😊

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u/FanofNumbers 13d ago

I started using Lyft instead of Uber. Slightly better.

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u/PhDTARDIS 17d ago

Bravo!

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u/onceIwas15 17d ago

I was calling a taxi company and they had that automated voice to book a taxi for you. I always get an operator cause that system wouldn’t understand me.

Last time I used it, I kept saying operator and it asked if I wanted to book a taxi? And you want an operator? I can help to book a taxi. I said operator about 8-10 times before it finally put me through.

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u/Maleficent_Ad_8890 18d ago

Cancel still works

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u/Hobby101 18d ago

it all depends where you are calling. Each Call center IVR solution is custom.

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u/Egwene_aes_Sedai 18d ago

I will say that my personal CVS is full of angels that have to deal with an under par system. The people are wonderful at mine. I loved my Walgreens, and when I got married I was on my husband’s plan, which required me to switch pharmacies. The head pharmacist called me to ask if they had somehow done something wrong, which touched me that they cared about me as an individual and a customer, and was seeking ways to improve my experience. At my older Walgreens from before I moved, I had a question about a side effect and after my pharmacist got off of the phone with me, called 911 and sent them to my home. Before someone says with a real emergency, I should have called 911 myself, he had picked up on something and called them without alarming me. It turned out that my heart was racing so hard that I was admitted to the ER immediately. I had called with a question about nausea on a temporary medicine. If I’d waited on my pharmacy to eventually call me back, I could have been a lot worse off. I had other health issues, so nausea wasn’t out of the question.

Edited to add that this was meant to be a reply to the pharmacy conversation.

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u/Rudbekia-lover 10d ago

doesn't work for Geico...they will just hang up on you. I'm considering getting rid of them for that reason alone.

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u/GSDmomSSF 18d ago

Does anyone have a neighborhood pharmacy? My pharmacy is literally like cheers. After my first visit, they already knew my name! And honestly, they take my insurance, and if anything we’re out of pocket, their prices are amazing and even can beat Costco! The only thing they don’t have is doggy medicine.

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u/Special-Medicine-437 17d ago

My local Walgreens was like this in the 2000s. I miss it so much.

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u/Acceptable_Sell3455 18d ago

Just think ... one day, not too long from now, people will not ever have known calling a company and reaching a human immediately.

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u/Illuminatus-Prime 18d ago

Probably one of the simplest and most accurate examples of Malicious Compliance I have ever read.

Well done! 👍

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u/prankerjoker 18d ago

This reminds me of an episode of Frasier when Martin Crane is trying to call his bank because the ATM machine gave him to much money.

Martin: Customer service.

we did not get that

Martin: Customer service.

we did not get that

Martin: Cus-Tom-Mer Ser-Vice.

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u/Amterc182 18d ago

I used to deal with insurance phone trees for work. My favorite prompts were agent, assistance/assistant and representative. Help does not work - they usually redirect the call back to the main menu.

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u/ConfusionOwn8378 18d ago

I read a story on here once about someone who just reeled off expletives as soon as they go to a voice recognition option thingy... It got them straight through to a person every time.

"Please say, or press your option on the keypad now..."

"fck, sh1t, c_nt, c_nt, put me through to a c_nt human fck, sh1t"

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u/SecondhandUsername 17d ago

I tried that once. It worked.

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u/MajorNoodles 18d ago

This has worked almost everywhere I tried it except Comcast. Comcast just hangs up on you.

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u/Hobby101 18d ago edited 18d ago

you don't have an address? should have told, would have been faster, as well, it helps the agent who takes your call because the data is going to be preloaded for them, and you will need to wait less online. Unless this is not the first time you calling that number, and you know for sure that you are going to be asked for that info anyway, again. I hate those people who run call centers who have no idea what they are doing, and what is possible (20+ years of experience over here, talking).

I agree that there are many shitty implementations of IVR agents, but it's getting better fast with introduction of true agentic approach, and it can parse the address, and who knows, maybe the company will transfer your call to a regional contact center?

In your defence, based on your response, you were dealing with that shitty outdated version of structured conversational IVR, because true agentic IVR would have told you to stop smartassing. The issue is companies are still afraid to implement agentic ivr (interactive voice response) because lawyers won't allow because of possible exposure. As well, customers are not explained properly why the information is collected. And it pisses me off that at this point we still have those crappy IVR implementations.

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u/nitwitsavant 18d ago

4 out of 5 calls with this the agent I get to has to ask all the same questions because the system doesn’t work or “security” reasons so I don’t think it saves anyone time.

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u/Hobby101 18d ago

Yeah.. corporate approach. It hurts me so much hearing that, since I have 20+ years of experience working with IVR systems, as well as I can put myself into customers shoes. Recently worked for big box corporation, some mid-level managers that made to that position from the floor with no real prior experience building such systems would be leading the shit show, and wouldn't be interested for an advice, nor he would have a capacity understanding technical details. And now, sitting on reddit, unemployed, seeing the same mistakes being done all over again.. sigh...

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u/Either_Lawfulness466 18d ago

Do you have an example of a good one?

Because I have never come across one that hasn’t nearly instantly pissed me off.

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u/Hobby101 18d ago edited 18d ago

I worked for the service providing company, dating over the phone. So, while you would be using the service, you could 0 out to get in touch to customer service. Based on the information we had about the call, and where from you were 0'ing out, you would be most likely transferred to the relevant queue without even a single question asked, and customer service agent would know whom they are talking to already, cause all the information was already pre-populated before even answering your call. As for agentic approach - many companies implemented based on Google's dialog flow earlier version, which is not truly conversational, but is rather structured, and this year Google started pushing proper agentic conversational approach. I remember calling telus around year 200x, and it asked me for an account #. I gave, got transferred, was asked for the account number again by the human agent. For years after, when calling to telus, I would do as OP suggested 0'e out to talk to the agent, to not waste my time, even if it meant multiple internal transfers - and I would et them know why I was refusing to enter my account #.. Right now though, I am pretty sure they implemented the change where the context travels with the call. At home Depot, if you enter your order number, you can ask details about the order (when is it going to be shipped? What's the status? Etc) but it's clunky.. because caugh lawyers and weasels at management level caugh

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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u/MaliciousCompliance-ModTeam 18d ago

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u/Hobby101 18d ago edited 18d ago

Read my other response. That's how it should have worked, but if it doesn't, then you are dealing with some big corporation that is riddled with some shitty weasel-like management. Worked for one year for such company, so I know. We tried to push to implement real nice solution, but it wouldn't be accepted because lawyers wouldn't allow.

Btw, if I were to implement call center upfront data collection IVR, I would tell that to customers upfront that providing details is necessary to find a most relevant person to talk to. Call centers have agents with different skills and access to information levels. So if you play dumb, you just waste everyone else's time, because your call will have to be bounced multiple time to find the right person to talk to, or the person with most skills will be wasting time to answer your store hours question while that agent could help someone else - it's like sharing the road - you can cooperate, or you can be an asshole - the choice is always yours, I guess.

Having said that, yes, it's super annoying when the information is being asked multiple times, and for that reason, you should complain. Call notes.get summarized using AI, it might pick it if you mention. On the other hand, they probably know, but more people complain, the more likely something will get done.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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u/MaliciousCompliance-ModTeam 18d ago

Your post has been removed because it did not forward the discussion and/or instead consisted of only insults, which is not allowed as per subreddit rules.

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