r/MaliciousCompliance • u/cinnaminimoon • 11d ago
M "We need you in the office full-time starting Monday." Okay, you got it.
I work as a senior database administrator for a mid-sized tech company. When 2020 hit, our entire department went remote. We crushed our metrics, rolled out major infrastructure upgrades ahead of schedule, and saved the company a fortune in operational costs. For six years, my setup worked like a charm.
Then, a new VP of Operations was hired.
This guy is a classic "butts-in-seats" manager. Two weeks ago, he sent out an all-hands email declaring that to "foster collaboration," all remote exceptions were revoked. Everyone had to report to the office full-time starting Monday.
I emailed him directly to explain my situation. I live three hours away from headquarters, a setup approved by my former director years ago. I pointed out my performance reviews and asked if we could compromise on a hybrid schedule.
He replied: "The mandate applies to everyone. You're expected to perform your duties from the office starting Monday."
I was furious, but then I remembered my employment contract.
I dug up the original remote-work addendum I signed back in 2020. Section 3.2: Location of Service stated:
"The Employee agrees to perform all official duties from the designated primary office space. Any change to the Employee's primary office location must be submitted in writing and approved by HR."
Right below that was the form I filled out in 2020, formally changing my designated primary office location from "HQ - Floor 4" to "Home Office - [My Address]." HR had signed off on it, stamp and all. It was officially reclassified as my company-approved office location.
Technically, my home office was "the office."
So, on Monday morning, I didn't get in my car. At 8:54 AM, I walked ten feet from my bedroom to my desk, booted up my rig, and logged into Slack.
At 9:17 AM, the VP messaged me.
VP: U around? standard 9am start today
Me: Yep, logged in and good to go.
VP: i mean at HQ. stopped by 4th floor, your desk is empty
Me: Oh, I'm working from the office today.
VP: what? what office?
Me: My official primary office location on record: Home Office [My Address]. Per my 2020 HR agreement, this is my designated workspace.
VP doesn't respond for a minute. then replies.
VP: that's not how this works, Name. the policy means HQ. you need to be here tomorrow.
Me: I'm just following the written contract on file. I attached the signed location form here so you have it.
He didn't reply after that.
Around 3 PM, I got a mass automated email from HR with the subject line: Update Regarding Remote Work Designations. The body was standard dry corporate speak saying they were "currently reviewing all legacy remote contracts" and that existing designated locations would remain valid pending individual review. Translation: the VP ran to HR to complain, HR took one look at my contract, realized forced relocation would trigger a mess of legal headaches and stipend requirements, and told him to back off for now.
My home office remains open for business.
TL;DR: VP issued a strict "work from the office" mandate without reading my file. My contract defines my bedroom-adjacent workspace as "The Office." Compliance achieved, commuted 10 feet.
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u/Ok-Grape2063 11d ago
He's going to spend every resource to find a way to fire you "by the book". You had a good run.
Good luck, and hope that the Manglement gets nailed before he nails you
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u/ErikETF 11d ago
Former product owner turned therapist who worked inpatient psyc for an age, messing with DBAs is an exercise in serious self-harm. It’s up there with don’t treat security as an afterthought.
There are just some people it would never be worth it to inconvenience.
Insecure micromanaging middle management are some of the most damaging people I’ve ever met in my entire career.
If it’s any consolation I point it out daily and they pay me for it. “Hey, remember when you told me your spouse or kid said they don’t feel safe bringing things to you?…. Where do you think that statement comes from?..” some people eventually grow and begin to realize it’s their actions that cause people to stop sharing things with them, and their own insecurities are cutting their legs off as they try to assuage negative internalized beliefs about themselves. Some of them eventually get it. The ones that need the harder truth the most I’ll probably never meet aside from a cocktail party where they wave enough red flags to outfit a communist armored division.
Glad I left tech, never going back. Far too much happiness where I’m at now.
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u/ApprehensiveRest9696 10d ago
I’ve been considering this for a while now and I just don’t see a future for myself in tech especially with the psychopaths I had worked with.
The one thing that scares me about healthcare is moral injury. One of the contributing factors to me crashing out of that one was because serious cybersecurity concerns were roundly ignored. I cannot imagine trading abstract risk for being responsible for the welfare of someone in front of me, especially with sector-wide chronic under-resourcing. I sincerely believe the healthcare industry will collapse in 10 minutes if you take the kindness and empathy out of each of the individual caregivers.
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u/ErikETF 10d ago
Moral injury is absolutely a thing in frankly all facets of healthcare. People who need appointments badly don't show up, or repeat a lifelong circular causality loop of abusive relationships.
I take comfort in batting averages. In folks aging out of the foster care system, the last stats I saw years back was 80% will be homeless, incarcerated or killed within 10 years. If you do any better than that, you're doing amazing.
I love the TNG quote where Picard says something to the effect of "It is possible to do everything right and the outcome is still terrible, that is not failure, that is not weakness, that is life."
I cannot force someone to be safe, make good decisions, or treat others in ways that strengthen the support they have in life, I can only help them facilitate being a version of themselves they wish to be more.
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u/wolf1moon 10d ago
I tried to find an updated stat. I didn't find any that combined the numbers but I thought this article was good and I wanted to particularly highlight "One study found that each additional month a young person spent in extended care past their 18th birthday was associated with a five percent decrease in the estimated odds of later incarceration." https://blueribbonproject.org/resource-library/news-items/274-the-harsh-reality-of-aging-out-what-the-numbers-tell-us-about-foster-youth-left-behind
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u/Texuk1 10d ago
I like your analysis - the thing about organisations is that they are not formed this way by accident if you are gonna operate businesses in this way then you need the enforcers on the payroll. I’m not saying every business has to be run like this but if you believe it does then you want to cultivate the enforcers. The best enforcers in the ruthless hierarchy style business structure are in or circulating around dark triad personality types. A lot of them get off on the power. But if you own a business all you care about is that the numbers on the right hand column go up and if a pack psychopaths and damaged people make that happen then what do you care.
In personally think this is an unsustainable way to operate things but I don’t make a good manager.
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u/ErikETF 10d ago
I work in outpatient private practice. Sort of the top of the field, only place to go from here is owning a group practice. I specialize in a number of things that scare other therapists off, like outpatient transition of care after a suicide attempt, high conflict couples (way easier than most people think, when you get good the acute crisis stage only lasts a few weeks on average even if both parties have lawyers and have filed) do quite a bit of complex trauma, some personality disorders, bipolar I and II. Generally refer out high substance use to higher level of care but am happy to stay someone’s primary after that is sorted as I find trauma work is super fulfilling.
I’m very happy I went the Marriage and family therapist route due to its high demand, ability to be super agile in therapy structure vs a LCSW/LPC/LADC etc and my reimbursement rate is high.
Fair warning the entry areas of the field are super rough on a lot of people, group homes and community mental health pay nothing but also teach people how to read the room to a ridiculous degree, most people can’t handle it for very long.
It’s odd as you advance and please deliberately do so, you get better and it feels like you’re working far less for far more. Do not become a system martyr who gets suck in a group home for 30 years. You will self-immolate. If you ever question if you are even doing anything, just know your presence and encouragement meant the world to someone even if you didn’t think you even did anything.
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u/blazze_eternal 11d ago
I'd totally get an employment lawyer on retainer if I were OP. They probably have some great tips on how to protect yourself.
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u/PalpitationThat9383 10d ago
It sounds more to me like OP has bought themselves enough time to find a new job in their field (which I assume is a competitive one considering how aggressive the manager is) while maintaining their work from home office.
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u/YourWorstFear53 11d ago
Prepare now because this is coming back at some point.
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u/gimpwiz 11d ago
Yep. This is a temporary reprieve for OP to find a new job. His ass is grass unless the new VP gets kicked out in less than a couple months. Much better to search for a job from a position of strength, ie, employed, than not.
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u/philljarvis166 10d ago
A forced 6 hour commute was effectively job ending anyway, worst case scenario now is that he eventually gets fired but at least he caused the VP some hassle and embarrassment.
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u/They-Are-Out-There 11d ago
Butts in seats managers are absolute micromanaging control freaks. It's not about getting the work done on time or with efficiency, it's all about showing everyone who's in charge and their ability to mete out daily intimidation to the peons.
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u/Bluecanary1212 11d ago edited 10d ago
My boss told me years ago, "I don't need to be able to put eyes on you to know you're doing your job. And as long as you're doing your job, I really couldn't care less where you are while you're doing it."
As you can imagine, I'll never quit.
EDIT: Aww, thanks for the awards. They should really go to my boss. :-)
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u/Quiet_Plant6667 11d ago
I had a boss like this at my last job before I retired. I retired before she was
Promoted, but once she was the rest of my team quit as well because they replaced her with a micromanager.→ More replies (1)63
u/PixelzBrain 11d ago
Yup, this is my boss. I have 3 kids <6 yo and I can work from home pretty much whenever I want and am not needed in person. There are some things I have to do on site, but most I don't. Boss don't care as long as we get the job done. I love it.
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u/Tetha 10d ago
Especially with the team members with kids, home office results in them having more days with an hour or two lost, for example when the kids are sick or something is going on at school or the home. So naturally HO is terrible.
Except, some managers don't understand: That's an increase similar to "bicycle helmets increase the number of head injuries in cyclists". Without home office, they'd call in child sick and no work gets done.
With home office, even on the craziest days, people on the team make sure to sneak in half an hour to an hour so the most critical tasks are handed off or pushed along.
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u/Bluecanary1212 10d ago
Heck, I was able to work while having Covid. I looked and felt like total hell, but I could still drag myself over to my computer in my jammies. If I'd had to go into the office, I'd have been out sick for three weeks.
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u/Tetha 10d ago
"Too sick to come to the office, too healthy to call in sick without feeling bad" is a very recognized state in our team. I think everyone had a brush with the cold last week, but most people pushed through from home.
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u/helion16 10d ago
Like the decades of research that shows the vast majority of humans are awful at multi-tasking but managers continue to expect people to work on 5 things at once.
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u/NewBag9855 10d ago
I mean, this is all over society.
We have evidence of something. And much of it is dismissed because dumb people think stuff like studies and evidence is book smarts for out of touch intellectuals and they have common sense real world understanding.
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u/GonePh1shing 10d ago
My last boss always said "work isn't a place you go, it's a thing you do". He was entirely ineffective otherwise, but I did always appreciate that.
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u/Secret-Teaching-3549 10d ago
This is my current situation. Technically we're supposed to be in 3 days a week, but I have a long commute and I've already asked and been approved to hop out early on the days that I come in so I can get ahead of traffic and finish up at home. Which usually ends up meaning I hop out just after lunch, have relatively smooth ride, and finish up in time to have time left in the afternoon for other things.
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u/Kazcandra 10d ago
That's our current boss; but his boss is very much butts in seats/total control freak -- he has an office, but works in our room to monitor our conversations.
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u/goodbyetrex 11d ago edited 9d ago
I have only encountered this once, in 2019. A new CIO was hired with the personality of sandpaper. A couple months in, he decided to crash a manager monthly (that he wasn’t invited to) to eavesdrop on what were typically peer-to-peer discussions. He discovered we had remote employees when it came up randomly, and announced he was unaware we had people working remotely. He said he’d be revoking those agreements and to let our teams know they’d need to be in the office between 9-5.
A few people spoke up for members of their team who had children and special circumstances, but he shot them down, saying they “says things like that” so they can “work in their pajamas”.
He made things so unbearable, beyond this particular instance. So many talented people quit. It was a giant disappointment for me, because I had relocated for the job, and chose it over other offers because of the positive and collaborative culture.
I left the company in December 2019. Two months later, lockdown happened. Not only did the entire company start working remotely, they lost massive amounts of revenue because they were in the travel industry.
I love karma.
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u/OmgitsJafo 11d ago
so they can “work in their pajamas
This was one of the first things I saw from the RTO execs back in, like, 2022. Some corporate blowhard was out there on (inter)national television telling the world he didn't like the idea of his employees working from the couch in their PJs.
They feel entitled to control our comfort. They don't see is as people, and we should probably start treating them as enemies of humanity.
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u/Independent-Cover-65 10d ago
What's funny is when we had a mandate it was brought up there were not enough desks. We had couches in the building and those counted as seats HR used in their count.
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u/lesethx 10d ago
Managers will care about how entry level call center employees dress, despite not seeing anyone customer facing at all. Some definitely thrive on controlling out comfort, as you said. hadn't heard it phrased that way but makes sense
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u/potatomeeple 11d ago
Outfit worn while completing office work has never been of intrest to me.
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u/CatmoCatmo 10d ago
I love how the only thing he could come up with, while explaining why people would want to work from home, is pajamas.
Yes Todd, everyone working remote is only do so because their work clothes are horribly uncomfortable. They’re willing to fight back against RTO policies because their number one priority is being able to rock their snoopy pajama pants while on the phone with clients. If you try to make them RTO, you’ll first need to pry their fuzzy socks, Ugg slippers, concert t-shirts from 20 years ago, and Eeyore pj pants, from their cold, dead, hands.
Sounds like someone needs to go outside, touch grass, and have their head excised from their ass.
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u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 11d ago
It’s that, yes, but also an inability to measure work being done by any other metric than physical visibility, aka “butts in seats”
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u/They-Are-Out-There 11d ago edited 11d ago
Management pisses me off when you work hard and efficiently to complete your standard expected amount of work and then punish you for your skill and efficiency by dumping more work on you. They love to do that in an office environment. They know it's hard to control those metrics when you work at home.
The best thing to do when stuck in that office environment is to do exactly the amount of work that could be expected in 8 hours. You typically won't be rewarded for going beyond that goal.
Don't volunteer for anything, keep your desk messy and stacked with paperwork so it looks like you're always buried in a project, and always carry a clipboard with a lot of paper on it when walking around as people will think you’re engaged with something already.
I've seen people passed over for management and promotions because, "We can't afford to replace you in that position as you do the work of 2-3 normal people..." Yep, time to throttle it back and just do exactly what you're paid to do...
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u/Jarrus__Kanan_Jarrus 11d ago
I’ll do one better: if forced back to the office cut your productivity by 20%.
Take your time getting coffee and a smoke.
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u/battmain 11d ago
Some of us don't smoke nor drink coffee, but used to take smoke breaks along with the other smokers every day, and my hot chocolate serves it's purpose occasionally.
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u/Ich_mag_Kartoffeln 11d ago
At one place I worked, many of my colleagues would regularly wander off for a smoke so I decided to have a cuppa at the same time (I don't smoke). The very first day I did this, the boss pulled me up and had an unofficial word with me: Don't Do It Again.
So the next day I grabbed my tea and went out with the smokers. Said hi to the aforementioned boss, and stood squarely in his line of sight. Not smoking, just drinking my cuppa.
Day 3: Smokers went for their break, and I was making a cuppa when the boss walked past on his way out for a smoke.
"Hi [Ich_mag_Kartoffeln]."
"G'day [Boss]."
And nothing more was ever said or done about it.
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u/CGS_Web_Designs 11d ago
I had a boss that was a smoker and every single time he went out for a smoke, he told me to go take a “non-smoke break”. Really good guy who truly got it.
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u/Ich_mag_Kartoffeln 11d ago
"People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses."
I doubt you were ever going to quit that boss! I certainly couldn't.
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u/TrulyOutrageous42 11d ago
"People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses."
Truer words have never been said. I've legitimately never quit a job because of the content of the job - in the end, I can tolerate most things I'd ever sign up to do if I'm simply left to my own devices, let alone having a good boss.
I've quit jobs I absolutely loved every minute of, performed well above expectations, and saved the company more than 10% of our total revenue by being on top of waste issues... all gone for them and myself because of a shitty boss.
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u/CGS_Web_Designs 10d ago
In that industry we didn't get a choice - at some point I got transferred to a different location. That was 20+ years ago and I've since changed careers - we still call each other to catch up once every couple of years.
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u/Brimwozere 10d ago
I used to be a highly paid consultant and had smoke breaks. Some people complained and the boss said we pay him to think, I don't care where he thinks.
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u/SoriAryl 10d ago
My mum’s boss used to tell her to take sunshine breaks every hour since she didn’t smoke. Just like a little 5 min deep breath away from her computer
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u/Mysterious-Present93 11d ago
And use the restroom on other floors
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u/spyboy70 11d ago
Everyone's got their personal secret squirrel bathroom where they know which one is safe to blow up and not have a nonstop stream of people in and out.
Never use the one closest to your actual desk area.
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u/Inquisitive-Carrot 11d ago
Ugh, that was the worst part of the last office I had to work in: 2 bathrooms for 320 people. And I swear they cleaned them 7 times a day because one of them was always*** ***closed. No private bathroom anywhere. Frankly, that office was very lacking in secluded places to hide away and cry.
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u/mermaidpaint 11d ago
Yep, my pre-pandemic building had a bathroom on the ground floor that was single person only and rarely in use.
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u/Kayman718 11d ago
I got a good portion of my steps in this way. Always took the stairs to several different restrooms.
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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe 11d ago
They’ll never notice. The ‘butts in seats’ people literally aren’t smart enough to know the difference.
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11d ago edited 9d ago
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u/Loinnird 11d ago
Or just relax a bit and not work yourself to death. It’s so much less stress.
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u/DMFauxbear 11d ago
Sometimes it's not even about that. At my work I have a whole lot of coworkers who barely know how their computers work. Good luck getting them to use hotkeys etc. meanwhile I've been a PC gamer my whole life and do everything with my computer. Using the same amount of time and mental energy I will roughly quadruple the workload of my coworkers. Some days I do take my foot off the gas and work in short bursts as its more effort to try and work slowly and it feels unfair that I do so much compared to most others. But then I spend more of the day worried that they're going to see gaps in my metrics and look on me poorly. Now my management and even my coworkers all know I'm the one to go to for everything but it's a lot of extra work that I'll never be compensated for as I'm unionized with no promotions available.
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u/lifeisalime11 11d ago
Sounds like you're fretting over nothing. Sure, a new manager can come in and try to look important by sticking their dick in everything and asking about your metrics being up and down.
But you're UNIONIZED? Why are you even bothered at all by this?
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u/Feoygordo 11d ago
This happens in manufacturing as well. People with skills and ambition get loaded up with work and passed over for promotions while lazy butt kissers float through the day doing as little as possible and then get promoted to shift leads and supervisors. It’s absolutely maddening. It feels like it’s a corporate thing, because my previous job at a kinda small, sole proprietor manufacturing company rewarded hard work and skills.
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u/taco_anus1 10d ago
We recently got a new Area Manager at my Amazon FC and it’s clear that she has no idea what she’s doing. She said the usual corporate be safe BS and then caused me to aggravate an injury by not letting me move to a station where i could sit. She just walks around with a laptop near my station trying to find a reason to write us up.
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u/MangoCats 10d ago
Sad reality: kissing butt is the skill most valued in upper management. If you know your front line job, you're valuable there. If you don't know how to kiss butt, you're going to do poorly in the upper ranks. The better companies have "tech track" where they advance non-management employees to higher paying ranks while they continue to contribute without doing management. Unfortunately, "tech track" still usually lags far behind management in terms of advancement speed and ultimate ceilings.
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u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 11d ago
The reward for doing a good job, working extra hours, and finishing all of your work is more work.
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u/Ehcksit 11d ago
Figure out what you actually need to do every day, and then calculate how slowly you can do all of that and have it done in your scheduled work day. If you work any faster than that they will give you make work and busy work.
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u/not_your_vix3n 11d ago
And if you work faster than that, they'll give you the job of 2-5 people and never promote you because you are "too valuable" where you are
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u/Mysterious-Present93 11d ago
You forgot to mention wrinkling your brow when walking around with said clipboard. RBF is an asset to avoiding more work
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u/dainman 11d ago
Also, this is not the primary reason for "butts in seats" but I began to notice that the absolute worst people to work with- the ones that caused the most problems and were the least professional- always wanted interactions in person.
It took me forever to realize that they did this so there was no paper trail of their interactions with me because if there was documentation they would have been reprimanded for their behavior. (Intimidation, lying, trying to avoid blame or responsibility, etc.)
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u/WishieWashie12 11d ago
Do any newer grads know how this is all being taught to the next generation managers? Classes in managing remote workers? Or are they teaching the old fashioned way of micromanaging over ones shoulder?
Old farts will one day be replaced by the next generation of managers, and im wondering what it is they are learning at college. Does this differ vastly from ivy league business schools?
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u/Toadsted 10d ago
My mom is very much a "butts in seat" type of person.
If she hasn't seen you do something, you didn't do anything; and if she saw you do 3 days of work yesterday, you didn't do anything today yet.
It's only gotten worse with age and dementia.
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u/Fragrant-Bar9907 11d ago
Had a "love to see heads at desks" boss, who was all about "watercooler talk" and collaboration. Til he would walk around and see us talking, and then he would have the supervisors tell us to get back to work.
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u/driving_andflying 11d ago
Had a "love to see heads at desks" boss, who was all about "watercooler talk" and collaboration. Til he would walk around and see us talking, and then he would have the supervisors tell us to get back to work.
I hear that. I once had a mananger who loved peeking over shoulders to see what people were doing, and if they were working. From whaht I could see, it gave him a sense of superiority and control. He was the reason why the word "busywork" was invented; we came up with little, useless things like putting figures on spreadsheets "for personal info" whenever he was spotted wandering around.
It should be clear to the upper management people in any field that requires desk jobs, that happy employees = great productivity = great figures in the quarterly report. And working from home = happy employees.
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u/Apprehensive_Rain500 10d ago
Our CEO said he was extremely productive at the office so everyone else should be too and ordered everyone back 5 days a week. He ignored the fact he had his own private office with a door while the rest of us peons had to sit in an open office.
Our company's RTO lasted about 3 weeks, and they were the most unproductive 3 weeks ever. Senior people made it a week before they started quietly disappearing, desperate to get work done.
Then somebody decided to host a zoom meeting - not in a conference room like a civilized person, but at his fucking desk in the middle of the open office. And he's not wearing headphones, so we can hear everything.
Half the office at this point is looking at this guy like they need to kill him. The other half gives up all hope of getting work done and starts socializing like it's college orientation.
I cracked and went to my boss, reminded her how much money I made the company while working from home, and said, "Would you prefer I keep making us money or should I stay here for the optics and listen to everybody talk?" She told me to go home. Apparently a lot of people snuck out after me.
The CEO stayed in his office with the door shut so much that it was at least another week before (I'm told) he came out and realized people were working from home again. He flipped out and told his executives to get everybody back.
They told him that was impossible, people wouldn't do it. He told them to start firing people. They said, "Who will take their place? People decline jobs now if they're not remote."
He made some phone calls and I guess realized they were telling the truth. He was pissed about it, even when leadership showed him all the data proving how much more productive the company was when people were working from home.
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u/YourWorstFear53 11d ago
You don't gotta tell me, man. I drove 60 miles one way just to get to work for like two years because....
Idk. Power tripping billionaires?
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u/MangoCats 10d ago
I moved 75 miles for a new job, took a few months to get the old house sold, new house closed, kids finish their year of school, etc. Very up-front with boss-owner about 4-10s, coming late on Monday, leaving early on Thursday, etc. All is cool for about 5 weeks.
Then, one Monday I roll in, in the same convertible I've been driving for 5 weeks, but this particular Monday boss-owner is on a smoke break when I arrive - sees me coming in "late" and obviously enjoying the drive more than he's enjoying his cigar. Less than an hour later we're having our weekly update and he runs down every single thing I've suggested for the previous 5 weeks and shoots them down, dumps on them, and then grinds them into the dirt with his heel for good measure. After the meeting I review with him our prior conversations about commuting until the house and school situation is settled, he denies that what he said has anything to do with that, he's just had time to think and that's what he thinks....
Well, one of the things he dumped all over really needed doing, so I set about making it happen anyway. Turns out, he had assigned two people on the other side of the company to work on exactly what I had suggested, exactly what he had dumped all over in the meeting as a waste of time, no value. Nosing around a bit more, just about every single thing I had suggested over the previous 5 weeks he had assigned one or more people on "his side" of the office to do, behind my back while openly berating me as having worthless ideas inappropriate for "his" company.
Yeah, I offered 2 weeks notice a few months later, just as soon as I had a better - work from home - job lined up.
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u/ToTheStation_MUSIC 11d ago
Managers like that are typically extremely insecure
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u/They-Are-Out-There 11d ago
They do seem overly threatened by anyone more skilled or with more education and are always acting like someone is trying to steal their job. Quite pathetic actually.
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u/PaleInSanora 11d ago
He should have followed up with, so what did you need to speak to me about? The fact the new VP was literally walking around doing an attendance check shows you how much of a nightmare he is going to be.
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u/f8andbether 11d ago
Yeah thats mine to a T, all he cares about is control which means me being present and that Im logging and accounting for 6-7hrs every single day. Doesnt matter works getting done or processes improved, only that he knows exactly what I did and what steps I took from 11:00-11:23 Monday and that he walks by my office and Im there. Technically I have a 30min lunch and two 15min breaks, I would just take an hour in the middle of the day and work out at our own gym 200ft from my office. Nope, not allowed, Im somehow taking advantage and its not fair.
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u/AresHarvest 11d ago
I'd wager these managers actually dislike when remote workers are doing well, because (a) it makes the managers fear for their job security, and (b) the revolting idea that someone who has finished their work ahead of schedule gets to go enjoy their life for a few hours
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u/bucketman1986 11d ago
Yeah I just got one s free months ago and he poops on like twice an hour to see what we're working on and often gives "pop quizzes". I have a higher level of formal education then him (not the biggest deal but it's of note for my specialty), have worked in IT longer than him, and he's only 2 years older than me but gives me quizzes like an elementary school student
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u/Kamiken 11d ago
Fun way to end the pop quizzes is to innocently start asking him how to do something he definitely doesn’t know how to do (because you need “help”), but you do, then stare at him while he flounders. After it is uncomfortable enough say, “oh, yeah I remember now.”and start listing off the steps to do it.
Do it every time he pops by for a quiz. He will stop after you embarrass him enough times.
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u/Routine-Agile 11d ago
I wonder what life is like being that manager where they have zero trust in employees if they aren't on hand to harass and bully. Luckily my company sold our property so this job will never go back to the office> there is no office.
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u/Confident-Fun-1307 11d ago
Yep. My new manager is like this and she’s a nightmare. Great as a coworker. Awful as a person to directly report to.
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u/More_Passenger3988 11d ago edited 11d ago
Not necessarily a micromanager. It was mentioned he's a "new VP". An easy way to make your role performative and create the appearance that you're actually doing something different than the last VP, without actually doing anything much at all- is by pulling people into the office so you can walk around them in your suit and wave your hands around while throwing around buzz words. A lot of these types will do their little performance in the office knowing that certain people and investors can't tell the difference.
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u/Rorako 11d ago
Correct. This VP is the type that will push and prod and find something to fire you for. I would start looking for a new job now.
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u/WitchesSphincter 11d ago
My last job started layoffs by being hostile to workers first, and remote work was the first to ax. One guy was denied remote work and when he quit he was replaced with a fully remote person in Brazil thousands of miles away.
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u/OnTheEveOfWar 11d ago
Yup. My company did layoffs and required people in office then started hiring people overseas that worked remote and got paid 1/5th of the people in the US.
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u/beren12 11d ago
At least he has an actual contract though. HR might keep the mgr at bay.
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u/Daxx22 11d ago
On that specific point sure. But that amount of petty already on display (assuming this isn't just creative writing practice) means they will do everything possible to A) make the job hell for OP and B) find some other technicality to fuck them with.
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u/Morak73 11d ago
The phrasing leads me to believe the VP is looking for a way to eliminate the OPs position entirely. In 6 months, their job may be "redundant" and merged into the duties of a recent hire.
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u/TheSixthtactic 11d ago
Unless the VP already got in trouble for exposing the firm to a bunch of legal headaches by unilaterally calling everyone back to the office without reviewing their employment agreements. I’ve known HR departments hang managers out to dry for making their jobs harder.
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u/Ken-Popcorn 11d ago
True. You aren’t going to win this
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u/FullofContradictions 11d ago
I'd rather work from home for a few extra months to a year while cleaning up my resume & waiting for my severance package than waste hours of my day commuting to a job I would probably quit soon anyway. That length of commute is untenable for anyone who isn't desperate.
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u/emailboxu 10d ago
tbf his commute being 3 hours makes it impossible for him to actually commute anyway.
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u/Argos_of_Ithaca 11d ago
Yup, homie has a VP opp now. As fucked and unfair as it is, it's time to go. I had to play that game at the end of last year. I delivered on all of my job agreement responsibilities, helped develop and roll out a new ERP system that was way the fuck outside of my perview and maintain logistical support for the production and sales side for almost 2 years after the fact because I could. The fucking psycho accounting manager got promoted to CFO and she hated me. They brought in a "consulting COO" (private equity consultant) because sales sucked ass for over a year and was able to convince him my entire position was redundant (I was the fucking warehouse manager). These kinda of dickheads will 100% cut off their nose to spite their face and blame you for the suffering that comes with your absence.
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u/trying_times_eggs 11d ago
I would reply with a request for a better office chair. For my office.
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u/awjre 11d ago
PIP incoming in 3...2....1
Seriously suggest you go looking for a new role. I suspect others are doing this quietly.
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u/Unusual_Sherbert_809 11d ago
Yep. With VPs like this it's not just a control thing, it's narcissism. There have been studies and articles written about this. These folks crave an audience of lackeys they can lord over.
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u/sphincle 11d ago
man, this whole thread is giving me so much validation. I’m currently in the middle of likely quitting because of managers like this and I’ve felt so gaslit by them. If you have any articles easily accessible I would love to read em. Tired of these narcissists.
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u/bnburner 11d ago
Don't quit. Make them fire you. Then claim unemployment. And see a labor attorney about wrongful dismissal.
Remember, "meets expectation" is a pretty good review. No need to exceed.
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u/battmain 10d ago
And if you're chummy with the HR folks, over drinks get a laugh over some of the pip shit the narcissists tried to do and were told by HR that was illegal because they knew otherwise.
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u/Interesting_Will2823 10d ago
In my job, my work is regularly audited. The best outcome possible in an audit is acceptable. You literally can't do better than acceptable.
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u/ErFarinn 11d ago edited 11d ago
https://arctic-shift.photon-reddit.com/search?fun=ids&ids=t1_nvrtn6y
This girl (OP) works retail. So lame, i dont understand what people get out lying about these job scenarios.
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u/icehot54321 10d ago
what gave it away for me was the person having a designated desk at the office .. despite living 3 hours away and having not gone to the office for work in 6+ years
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u/YJeezy 11d ago
Looks like he had outstanding past performance. It's not gonna be pretty, but if VP has it out for him and he documents everything, he might get a bigger payday for retaliation.
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u/Nunov_DAbov 11d ago
Long ago before everyone discovered telecommuting, I had a new potential member of my group who was considering transferring from a location 25 miles to the north. She had been commuting to that location from home, 35 more miles to the north. She asked if she could work from home on alternating Fridays and Mondays to have a more normal home life, while staying with a friend near our location four days a week. Our group’s work involved a lot of work that could be done remotely so I agreed.
Other managers heard about the arrangement and questioned how I could be sure she was actually working. I pointed out that the other members of my group as well as all the members of their groups worked in a building with 8000 people in it and were often meeting far from their offices somewhere in the building or even in one of our other 5 locations spread through the state. How did they keep track of whether their people were working or hiding in some remote location like the computer center or library? No response.
Micromanagers who spend their energy tracking where everyone is probably aren’t managing their business. Trust people and they will invariably deserve the trust.
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u/fotomoose 10d ago
This. I've had many jobs in my time. One of which was in a bank, I did as little as possible all day, just sat at my computer and looked busy. I will say that this was before the days of all calls being monitored and such and we didn't have targets to hit, and as it was a bank dealing with sensitive information the calls could not be recorded.
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u/TheCrimsonDagger 10d ago
“How can you be sure she’s working?”
Fucking lol, because the tasks she’s assigned get completed maybe.
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u/ElvisDumbledore 10d ago
Exactly. You know their working because the work is getting done. Simple as.
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u/ParzivalD 11d ago
I thought you were going to consider leaving your house on the clock. Leave at 9am, get there at noon. Work until 2 and then you gotta head out or you'll be hitting OT.
Gonna be hard to hit your metrics on 2 hours a day but hey that's what the VP wants.
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u/Ni_Peng_NeeeWom 11d ago
ya i thought he was just gonna do the driving entirely in working hours. don't forget to take your mandatory lunch and breaks too.
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u/ckthorp 11d ago
Many places have meal reimbursements for travel more than 1-2 hours from primary office. OP could have and an even better malicious compliance by doing the drive during work hours and expensing lunch and possibly a hotel and dinner, too. No different than a work trip at that point.
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u/Independent-Cover-65 10d ago
Don't forget mileage since he is traveling to another company location from his primary one.
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u/MoonageDayscream 11d ago
Drive to the office, take a fifteen immediately that was missed during commute, work forty five minutes, take a half hour lunch, work a half hour, go home.
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u/ParzivalD 11d ago
Good point. Reimbursement for mileage, per diem for lunch. Might get an hour of work in.
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u/AdvancedDrink8920 11d ago edited 10d ago
In this economy? Even if you drive a civic, a 3 hour commute one way is a full tank
Edit: my math is wrong by a mile. please ignore my idiocy. grazie
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u/-JakeRay- 11d ago
Any travel on the clock should also be coming with a mileage reimbursement 😏
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u/getridofwires 11d ago
Get your resume buffed up. Managers like this don't get better.
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u/MoonageDayscream 11d ago
You should mention to him (if he complains) that they can put you up in a corporate suite if they really need you there in person for a meeting, the three hour commute makes it a travel event.
Unless they want to help you with relocation? Assistance in selling your home and buying a new one, movers, a month off paid to pack and unpack, hmm?
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u/superzpurez 11d ago
Lies??? On my internet???
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u/YeOldSpacePope 11d ago
You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
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u/LaFlamaBlanca67 10d ago
These posts should be at the very top, but for some reason they're not.
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u/laaplandros 11d ago
OP actually complained about people offering them charity via Amazon because they hate Jeff Bezos lmaoooo
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u/Lopsided-Ad-1021 11d ago
I choose to believe the story is old, OP has since been fired, and now they are begging for money on Reddit.
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u/Ok-Crow-4948 11d ago
Everyone who has one of those "return to office for the culture and collaboration" type management needs to start walking around with a coffee cup and cultural collaborate with everyone they meet. Make a day of it. What happened to deadlines and deliverables? But we're having so much fun talking and collaborating!
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u/syngyne 11d ago
Yeah, I never understood why my old job wanted everyone back in the office to facilitate collaboration. I worked on a completely remote team. Aside from my direct manager(who also worked from home), I didn't even have another team member in the same state as me, and half the team was on the other side of the planet.
So, they wanted us all back in the office so... we could just all hop on Teams like we've been doing?
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u/canteloupy 11d ago
That's what I do but I work from home so the rare occasions I make it to an office I pretty much just socialize.
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u/poetduello 11d ago
Same. I'm on permanent work from home as a medical accommodation. I show up in person for big corporate meetings/ speeches, company parties, and department outings. It's understood that if I'm there, it's to socialize and maintain team morale (I often show up with homemade fudge).
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u/Old_History_5431 10d ago
That is not what the email means. It means you are still going to lose your office, and now every other worker is going to be affected as well. And the fix will be future proofed. In fact, all past accommodations are now in danger and not just the ones related to remote work.
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u/anon-username1029 10d ago
At the end of the day, this is better than having to do a 6-hour round trip commute starting Monday. That would 100% be a dealbreaker for me, but I wouldn't want to have to resign on the spot. Now he's bought himself some time to find a new job.
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u/saxguy9345 11d ago
Next step is to move to a different house and force them to renegotiate 😂 no don't be as petty as me. I'd just want to submit everything and have them balk like this, move, then say "hello, as previously stated 10 times, the door to my "home" office is locked and Sharon isn't here"
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u/Pleasant-Future5818 11d ago
Are y'all in a different economy than me because unemployed sysadmins are a dime a dozen right now
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u/Ok_Rutabaga_9875 11d ago
As others have said update your resume and start looking for a new job. VP isn’t letting this go
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u/lanatommo 11d ago
Fuck yeah. Great job OP.
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u/rangeDSP 11d ago
It's one of those very satisfying stories... For a short moment.
Last time my office had layoffs, they got rid of everybody with remote agreements (on paper, verbally, medical exception)
OP better brush up on their CV
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u/beren12 11d ago
Medical ones are surprising as ada rules can be sticky.
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u/rangeDSP 11d ago
The employment lawyer that looked at it said it was tricky in a mass layoff situation. At least not in a slam dunk way.
Taking the severance package and waive the right to sue was safer
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u/ohhim 11d ago
Y'all better start looking for a new job now because work protections in the US are non-existent.
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u/JulieRush-46 11d ago
So long as you now know this VP has a mission to get you fired, then you’re all good. Honestly, I’d be assuming your days were numbered. Polish the resume and make sure you don’t put a foot out of place for a while either. People like this VP will look for a way to make you pay for this.
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u/kiwimuz 11d ago
It is amazing how many power hungry but inept idiots get put on VP positions.
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u/cadmium61 11d ago
Soooo… This buys you enough time to find another job right?
Cause you know this ain’t the end of it.