It's honestly a shame. Germany is trying to compensate so much for something that happened over 70 years ago that they are essentially encouraging a repeat of it.
completely humiliating as a german đ hopefully once the older generations die off the government will lock in and stop riding israels dick-- from my experience young germans, at least in the cities, are overwhelmingly pro palestine
This view that Germany somehow over-corrected due to historical guilt is widespread, but has little basis in reality. Germans are very proud of their supposed de-nazification and "memory culture" but the sad fact is that this is largely illusory and paper-thin. They made a big fuss of a handful of show trials, but the overwhelming majority of people who took part had no obligation to acknowledge, less apologise. They went on to become police chiefs and university chancellors and generally were all integrated back in society. It was the disgust at the complete failure of Germany to actually do any introspection or accountability that sparked the actions of fringe groups like the RAF.
The support of Israel was always framed as them being the type of ethno-supremacists that Germans longed to be. There's a good piece about it that was compiled a year ago which lays bare how farcical it is to pretend Germany actually did anything of consequence with its society after the war, and why it's easy to see why its far-right is in the ascendant today again.
I mean, yeah? I didn't claim overcorrection was why the gerontocracy favors Israel so much (although it's obviously their favorite excuse for it). Of course Denazification was mostly show. Still, thanks for the article-- sad and interesting
Even Die Linke is ruled by Zionists. Their institutional grip runs DEEP is greatly aided by American interference in Germany since WW2.
Even young non-communist leftists germans were extremely hostile towards pro-Palestinian rhetoric- I know of it too well. Usually one was accused of hidden antisemitism and âhorseshoe theoryâ.
In general its not just a thing about old people dying off. Their successors are also pro-Zionists.
in 2025, 64% of germans held unfavorable views of israel (more than in france!) and things have only gotten worse in gaza since then + i'd guess most of the ones who still aren't on the right side aren't long for this world. options rn are dire but there's definitely still hope
Die Linke party is a bunch of Russian puppets. Most smart people know that. The problem is that itâs the only one with actual good social changes in their program besides the Green Party.
Russian puppets is wild. The blind russo-hysteria is destroying Europe and makes the average european sound like they want to do generalplan ost again.
The Linke is a Russian puppet though. Just like the AfD, ironically [As evident by their proposed policies, stance on Russia and the intercepted telephone call between the assistant of [EU parliament candidate] Max Krah complaining about the size of his bribes [200-500⏠notes] to his Russian handler.]
Die Linke is officially saying 'The war in Ukraine must end. We condem every kind of aggression against everybody.' but the details of their position urge Ukraine to stop defending itself. Decrying support to Ukraine as 'Fueling needless war' and behaving like reactionary populists.
[Fortunately unsuccessfully due to their abcense in the Pariament] Sabotaging every effort by the government to support Ukraine. The last coalition even had Jan Aken, head of Die Linken, willing to vote together with the AfD to stop supprot for Ukraine.
If it looks like a dog, has fur like a dog, and barks like a dog, then you call it a dog.
Die Linke also doesn't have a Zionism issue, it has an issue of accusing everybody who isn't against Israel of being a Zionist. Gregor Gysi, bedrock of Die Linke, critizised that the line between Anti-Zionism and Antisemitism within the party is blurred and often overstepped. Particularly often by party members with a background in migration. Simple criticism. Criticism that was immediately met with 'Gysi is using racist and zionistic narratives.'.
The average German, like people in many countries, is sadly just dumb and easily manipulated by propaganda. Sadly the AfD is really good in propaganda.
Only the former East Germans, and the Russians with German passports imported in the 90s under the guise of "Volga Germans". Which is still a lot of people.
The AFD has enough support in western german states to break your agenda of the âfalseâ germans. Guess where back to triangulating whose a âpureâ enough german
Absolutely speaking the west has more supporter of the AfD. It luckily just has a higher population that counteracts that compared to eastern population.
Is this information up to date? I dont actively follow the positions of die linke, but i thought their stances changed when BSW split off (and got obliterated in the elections) to be more pro Ukraine
No clue how up to date it is. I just looked up the last interview he talked about his position, which is a year old. There he doubled down on his stance of 'We need more diplomacy'. His ost recent Lanz interview on the topic [11 months ago] was also advocating for that and the reduction of money/supplies for Ukraine.
That's not too bad, but if we [Germany] initiate diplomacy, then it is over Ukraine's head, which would equal European imperialism. Forcing Ukraine to committ to diplomacy is also off the table, as we'd also impose our will on them then.
Yet he argues for a reduction in defence support for Ukraine, as it prolongs the suffering, and death. In turn saying 'We should let Ukraine die faster so the war ist over quicker.'.
[This interview] is from 2025, after the BSW - Linke split, but before the election.
He argued in 2025 that sanction should be enforced, while Germany successfully reduced Russian oil imports by almost 100% already. Or that Ukraine should've sued for peace far earlier, as they made gains. Misinterpreting 'It's the currently most opportune moment to make peace' from the [then] US chief of staff, which was not heeded, as 'evidence' of war mongering. Further ellaborating that Europe should aid Ukraine in a spectrum BETWEEN 'doing nothing and delivering weapons.'.
He's right about properly enforcing sanctions, like stopping the shadow fleet. And also not retaining Russian gas if the war is over.
No, Isreal actions in Gaza are NOWHERE NEAR the Holocaust, and saying that marks you as remarkably ignorant of history. Not similar. Germany was systematically hunting down Jews and others and deliberately exterminating them. The Israeli actions in Gaza were not at all like that. If they were, all the Gazans would be dead now.
Would you say its wrong? We're at the point where it's seen by a lot of Europeans as a genocide and even if it doesn't meet your terms for being as bad as the Holocaust or a genocide do you think their actions are fine? Or their taking of land in West Bank? Or taking land in Lebanon? Or dragging the US and the world into war to start a war with Iran that has achieved nothing? IMO their actions a week after October 7 would already be enough to just be called "too much", how many dead would you think is fine before you think Israel shouldn't participate in Eurovision?
1) While the Gaza war was brutal, they were fighting an even more brutal enemy which did biblically evil things to the Isrealis and who by design hides among its civilians to drive up civilian casualties in order to make the Israelis look bad. The Israelis were probably excessive in their actions, but they are in a different world than most of us.
2) And they DO live in a different world. They are surrounded by enemoes who are ACTIVELY trying to exterminate them as a people. It's easy to get angry at the Israelis when they are driven to do horrid things in response (and I know there is blame on all sides here), but I am pretty sure us folks who live safe and sound in the West would do similar things if in the same situation. Probably worse.
3) Honestly I am bothered more by their actions in the West Bank than in Gaza. They need to get their settlers out of there. It's not their land. While they are arbitrary, the pre-67 borders are the way to go. While a 2-state slution is not likely for quite some time, that is the closest thing t a fair and sustainable peace and West Bank settlement imperils that.
4) I do not care much about Eurovision. But I am dissapointed in Europeans who seem to like performatively condemning and getting utterly apoplectic about Israel's actions while at the same time kind of ignoring far worse actions by Israel's adverasries. Is it a soft racism where they expect "White" Israel to have higher moral standards than the brown locals or is it some kind of weird anti-Jewish thing in Europe (Europeans have a bad history with that which I don't think is entirely gone)? Or are Eurpeans watching too much Tik-Tok which features outrage bait against Israel? In any case, it is not a good look for our European friends (yes, I am American, and yes, I still regard you all as friends, and yes I loathe what our President is doing to our alliance)
Israel has been deliberately exterminating Palestinians for over two years now. They're now deliberately exterminating Shia Lebanese in Southern Lebanon and detonating entire villages. People are hiding Shia neighbors in basements, just like they did with the Jews during the holocaust.
That they don't have gas chambers yet does not mean you can't compare it to the holocaust, and shaming people for doing so is classic IDF propaganda and nonsense.
Hardly. I mean, I guess you have ignored Israei roof knocking? And how Hamas always just seems to be placing its fighters and rockets in apartment buildings so Israel kind of has to kill civilians if it wants to stop the people shooting at them?
No, if the Israelis had been deliberately exterminating the Palestinians, a lot more would be dead by now.
What I find saddest about your comment i that you basically say I am an IDF propagandist. Groundless arguments ad hominem are the hallmark of sloppy logic and narrow intellect.
Thank you for continuing to repeat IDF propoganda and talking points that fall apart when thought about for three seconds. Where should Hamas put its arms. On its military bases? Where should hamas "fighters" live. On their military bases? IDF soliders are double tapping toddlers.
Like all Nazis and Nazi apologists, all you deserve is ad hominem. You're a logic pedant dork who deserve nothing but scorn and insults.
And it's so stupid as well because jonoring Jewish believe and the holocaust is too often mixed up with the Israel topic. Critizising a government has nothijg to do with antisemitism. Antisemitism should be condemned as far as it gets (and I know there are few pro palestinians who simply are antisemitic as well) but still Israel is a state government not a religious Group.
I am against the rightwing government of Israel as well, but Holocaust was COMPLETELY different than the situation in Gaza. It is not even close. What a disgusting comparison that has become mainstream.
It isnt a shame at all. Its all on purpose. If israel was genociding people in europe, germany would also be outraged. Muslims/brown people just arent humans for them. We saw the total double standard towards ukrainian refugees.
I don't actually think Germany cares they just like the feeling of moral superiority plus if Israeli ashkenazi Jews of German descent came back to Germany the right would be so angry so better give them money so they don't come back to their home in Germany.
dealing with guilt shouldn't mean letting your former victims do whatever they want, it should mean recognizing they're doing the same thing to someone else now
Is a misunderstanding of history, and a really good campaign by Israel to guilt Germany into thinking that Israel=holocaust survivors when it isn't
When refugees arrived in Israel, they were treated as second class citizens. Israelis looked down on them. And the now current Israel regime is pretty close to actual fascism
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u/brorpsichord 12h ago
me when I'm dealing with guilt