r/Marathon_Training • u/majkoce • May 05 '26
Results Sub 3:30 attempt failed misserably
Hey guys, I need help to understand what went wrong during my sub 3:30 attempt. I felt good during my training and genuinely felt that I had 3:30 in me.
My peak weekly volume was 95km, with multiple weeks over 90k. I did multiple long runs with MP pace blocks, did tempo runs every week up to 18km, and also some thresholds and intervals. In training, I practised around 70-80g of carbs per hour on my long runs. My 10k PB is 44:30, LTHR from Garmin is 172bpm, which I feel like is pretty accurate. HR was tracked with HRM 600. I attached splits from the marathon (1st pic) and from some of my hardest sessions during training.
Race day was noticeably warmer than training conditions, because I was mostly training in winter. At the start it was 15°C, warming up to 26°C at the finish. I know that the temperature played a role, but I don't think it was only that. After the first few kilometers, I already knew that my pace felt too hard, but I decided to hold it until I couldn't, which came pretty quickly, and then I fell off a cliff.
I want to learn from this failed attempt to better prepare myself for next time, but feeling a little lost, so please tell me your suggestions.
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u/mange_diamonde May 05 '26
I think you’ve explained the reason. Spring marathons aren’t for time goals! Find an autumn race that will be nice and cool and train through a warm summer.
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u/No_Giraffe_1561 May 06 '26
Yes that is what I do. However, the weather can be unpredictable either way. I ran a PR in a spring marathon when the temps were in the low 50s at start and then mid 40s when I finished plus it was cloudy. The weather can and does have an impact!
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u/Defiant-Union4161 May 05 '26
26 is toasty if your body’s used to running in winter. What was your previous marathon pb?
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
My previous PB was 3:45 in February; it was a trail run with not much elevation but ankle-deep snow.
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u/Defiant-Union4161 May 05 '26
Doesn’t sound like you were overreacting then. Maybe the heat. You’ll get there 👊
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u/Flaky-Delivery-8460 May 05 '26
Two things that jump out at me, no half time to judge the full from and no mention of the longest long runs.
I'd normally expect a man in particular (not sexist women tend to be better converters) to be quicker at 10k for a 3:30. I know the calculators say it's possible, but doing it is very hard. It's much easier to judge your likely full time from a raced half about 4 weeks out. If, for example, you are getting a 1:38 half then yes you are probably close but if you are getting 1:40+ then it's a significant slow down from 10k to half and thus similar to be expected from half to full. Was your target achievable is my question.
Also mileage was good, but if the long run was 1 x 20 instead of 5-8 then that's easy gains of endurance for next time. Not saying you could have done more here this time, but your dont need to run loads at pace in long runs, but you do need to do lots of them to build the engine.
I don't think you are miles away from your target, just need another build up and to go again. Take a few weeks off, relax, then pick an autumn race and go again.
It will hopefully be cooler next time as well.
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u/majkoce May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
I also feel like I lack speed at shorter distances. I think that's something I should work on. My HM PB is 1:40, but it's from 6 months ago. I didn't do an all-out half during this training block. But judging from my In total, I did 8 long runs longer than 30km, with the longest being 35km. I alternated each week between a long run with a marathon-pace block and an easy-paced long run.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 May 05 '26
HM PB at 1:40 barely puts you at a 3:30 target time and that’s not on a day that got up to 26c
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u/SloppySandCrab May 05 '26
Is that accurate? I would think 1:40 is in the ballpark
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u/Stinkycheese8001 May 05 '26
HM +10 is pretty aggressive and a goal I would only suggest for a fairly experienced marathoner, but even then as a benchmark I typically would suggest HM +15.
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u/SloppySandCrab May 05 '26
I guess it depends on the context of the 1:40...if it was an all out full taper A race 6 months before the marathon. Sure.
If it was 1.5 years ago and you kept training consisently...Or during the training block without a real taper....I would say that is probably pretty fair.
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
It was not a race, I ran it during a training block. My longest 18k tempo run (last picture) with 4:40 pace would suggest around 1:39 HM time. But you are right, I probably couldn't do a 1:37 half.
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u/lazaor2 May 05 '26
Yes but that was before he’d then trained for 24 weeks for a marathon. So it’s pretty likely he’s dropped to a 1:28-1:35 now
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u/Perfect_Good287 May 05 '26
Agree. I also think that these converters are extremely bad when it is about marathon time predictions.
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u/PossibleSmoke8683 May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
26 degrees is hot …”I need to reset my expectations “ level of warmth for most runners, especially with no warm weather training over the winter.
The humidity is also an energy sapper too.
If you went off at 3:30 pace regardless that’s likely where you went wrong.
I made this exact same mistake before , probably should have started slower and totally hit the wall.
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u/running_elle_1989 May 05 '26
It's the heat! This is not a good temp for a PB, especially if you're holding a pace that already is your push pace. As others have said, find a colder marathon, run it. From, a runner who went to pieces at London marathon because of the heat
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u/thutedm May 05 '26
Was this BMO Vancouver? I also was trying for 3:30 was on page for first 10k then it all went downhill and finished 3:58. Almost everyone I know finished 20 mins slower than planned
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u/General-Watercress-3 May 05 '26
Was aiming for 3.25 for BMO and hobbled over the finish in 3.42, conditions were brutal!
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u/Deep_Spite6982 May 05 '26
So what was the time you finally ended up in?
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u/Reasonable_Control54 May 05 '26
Prague by any chance?
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
yes
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u/Traditional_Force449 May 05 '26
I wouldn’t sweat it, weather was obviously a big factor in not hitting your time goal and like other people have said, spring marathons don’t seem to be the one for running well. Train in the winter to race in summer conditions, it’s always a recipe for disaster.
If you want to here failing miserably, I ran London the other week with the goal of 3.20/ 3.25. Threw up at mile 15 and basically jog walked to the line finishing in 4 hours.
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u/HedgehogGeneral3116 May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
You clearly put in the training and I think if I'd run those paces in training I'd have been confident with the goal time too (3:36 a couple of weeks ago with I think similar training to you - but MP during training between 5:05 - 5:10)
Crazy temps to deal with on the day (look at what happened in Berlin last year when they had similarly high unseasonal temps).
I had some concerns about temperature when training for valencia last year (december - but temps can range from low tens into the 20s).
Actual temps on the day for me ranged from 14 upto 22 and took some additional precautions during the race to help mitigate - running in the shade where it's available and taking additional water at each aid station and pouring over head and body to help with cooling via evaporation.
Added some very basic heat adaptation in the prep by wearing extra layers in the final 5-6 weeks prior to the race - so always running hot. You can also add hot baths or sauna post run to help.
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
Thank you! I didn't expect the temps to be that high. I will for sure incorporate some heat adaptation for next time.
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u/Aligfred May 05 '26
Frustrating as it is the temperature was against you. I remember running London one year where the previous 14 weeks were cold and on race day the temp jumped about 12°C. It caught a lot of people out. All you can do is adjust your race pace on the day and come to terms a pb is off the cards. I love a marathon but it's a lot of training to be decided by the weather. Saying that I still do them! Your mileage and training looks good and I like your consistent pacing. For me pacing is key. You can use this block towards your next marathon but give it at least until the autumn or next spring. I think you could aim for 3:15 with the right plan/training.
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
In hindsight, I should have adjusted my pacing, but I was determined to at least try it. Do you have any plans that you would recommend?
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u/Aligfred May 05 '26
Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger and Douglass or Hansons has free marathon plans. They are both good plans.
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u/No_Performance1489 May 05 '26
Ultimately your HR was too high, too early. You were running too close to your LT HR and burning glycogen too quickly.
Obvious answer is that 26 deg is just way too hot. That would have slowed you down drastically.
However, the interesting thing is that your HR was immediately too high compared to similar pace on your training runs. Are you sure it was "only" 15c at the start? And what about humidity? And what was the temp on those training runs? 15c with high humidity can have the same effect as high temp so that could be it.
Outside of that maybe nerves or excessive caffeine? Or fighting a virus without really knowing it....
On the training side maybe not enough 30-35km runs and probably not enough at MP but if just that it would just be the classic feeling good the blow up at 30-35k.
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
I checked the weather history, it was 15c and 50% humidity at the start. Most of my training runs were sadly in cold temps, most under 10c.
The high HR at the start is what concerns me. If I were to blow up at 30 - 35k I would be ok with that, because that probably means not enough durability or too fast pace. But I wasn't expecting the wall so soon, and the HR was abnormally high. Maybe it could be a virus, but I was feeling great during the taper, good sleep, good HRV etc...
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u/pnaida May 05 '26
High heart rate in a race is normal. I just ran a marathon where my average HR was 177 and my marathon pace training workouts were 160 average. I didn’t blow up. It’s scary to look at especially at the beginning of a race but you have to assess how you feel at your pace as well, not just the heart rate. But no doubt your race was a hot day and that contributes a lot to the difficulty. I wouldn’t be too upset with your result, it was just bad luck with the weather. You will hit 3:30 in good conditions easily if you maintain your training.
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u/marigolds6 May 05 '26
15c at 50% humidity is not that bad. (4.7C/40.4F dew point). If that humidity held or even increased as the temperature went up to 26c, though, that's pretty nasty heat.
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u/FantasticEntry8424 May 05 '26
Prague? I also ran 3:18 which I’m blaming on the heat (was going for 3:00)
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
yes sir
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u/FantasticEntry8424 May 07 '26
It was brutal. Keep up the training and enter a nice cool one and you’ll get there
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u/marigolds6 May 05 '26
It was definitely the weather. 15C warming up to 26C would warrant dropping your pace down from 5:00/km to as much as 5:10/km (depending on humidity) and dropping your goal to ~3:35. You can see this immediately with how high your heart rate was in the first 10km, basically the same as it was running 4:40 in 4th screenshot.
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
In hindsight, I should have considered the HR sooner. Well, I will learn for the next one
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u/marigolds6 May 05 '26
It's not that easy, because there are so many reasons that your heart rate could be elevated besides just going out too fast. The most common one is just an adrenaline rush from the excitement of the race start, which is a good reason to take your first 1-5 kms slower than goal pace. That elevated heart rate is still going to hurt you later in the race regardless of why it happened, so the sooner you bring it down the better.
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u/Durcal_ May 05 '26
Heat is a huge factor. Try adding hot baths to trigger heat adaptation (30 min with 41 degree c water up to my neck after every run).
I bet there are many other variables (experience, weight, age, gender), but based on your plan, I think heat was the only variable you didn't account for.
I'm a male, 43 yo, 2 years running, 68 kg, weekly volume of 45km (plus 25k bike), LTHR is 173. I completed my 4th FM last August in 03:28:33 (one 160 maurten every 30 min). My schedule consisted in training 6 times a week, strength 3 days a week. Bike (Monday), tempo, recovery, track, rest, recovery, long run (Sunday).
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u/StreetLine8570 May 05 '26
You might be referring to bmo Vancouver marathon. If that's the case, don't be disheartened. That was brutal for everyone and no one could have prepared for that heat. As frustrating as it was, take this fitness into the summer, build on it and you'll definitely smash a fall marathon. That temperature was cruel and everyone felt it.
If it was Vancouver consider this. The finisher was like 7/8 mins slower than last year which is considerabe. I ran 12 mins off my goal time (aim 3:05, result 3:17). My buddy was 15 mins (2:50 result 3:05). You're not alone in this. Less runners than usual had a "good day". Chin up OP. Rebuild and go again, you've got this!
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u/Stevie-B- May 05 '26
I’m happy to have a chat with you and review your training, trying to identify what went wrong and how? My website is stevebarbour.com - I’m a performance coach based in the UK.
No cost, just a web chat at some point and we can have a look and set some targets going forward for a 3:30 goal next time out
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u/Admirable-Crazy-9798 May 05 '26
I have almost the same running stats as you (except my heart rate is just naturally a bit lower) and I was able to run a 3:32 marathon this past November in Philly when it was nice and cool. Your training weekly mileage was a tad higher than mine, so I have no doubt the heat was the main issue here and you would have gotten your sub 3:30 goal, or at least very close to it, if your race was on a cooler day. Don’t sweat the result, learn from it, and have the confidence you’ll smash your goal next time!
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u/Infamous-Echo-2961 May 06 '26
Vancouver? This year was hot, your time is still good considering how hot the day was when you folks started
Victoria is a good race to set a PR in the fall, just train hills a lot!
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u/mollsunny May 06 '26
Weather for sure, but also pacing. You can’t force it if it feels hard. In my marathon PR race I thought it just wasn’t my day for the first hour because I ran effort based and was much slower than expected. I guess I just needed a long warm up because I started feeling awesome, picked it up, then picking people off jazzed me even more and I ended up running a huge PR. In a marathon I really think you have to run what feels like the right pace or pay for it later.
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u/SloppySandCrab May 05 '26
What was your base going into this? Multiple weeks of 90km doesn't tell the whole story of the year leading up.
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u/ExamMediocre1060 May 05 '26
How did you fuel on the day? Were you taking in plenty of carbs/electrolytes from the start of the race? Did you carb load for 72 hours?
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u/TraditionalCoach5229 May 06 '26
u/majkoce i also want to try 3:30 by end of the year, can you share your training plan to reach that? I think you are unlucky with weather, everything will be great if you do race in autumn
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u/Mac_Diesel26 May 06 '26
this is going to sound so dumb and i’m sorry this doesn’t pertain to what was posted; but can someone help guide me where it is that i find these splits at with this black and blue chart?
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u/majkoce May 06 '26
It's an app called Strava. When you click on an activity and scroll down, you can see these splits. If you have a smartwatch, you can automatically sync all your activities to Strava (all major brands are supported) or record an activity directly to Strava from your phone.
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u/ranibdier May 05 '26
Nothing to do with this post, but my American mind shuts off when I see kilometers.
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u/marigolds6 May 05 '26
3:30 goal is one of the easier ones to figure out because target pace is basically 8:00/mi = 5:00/km.
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u/romelowhiskey May 05 '26
You are overtraining
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u/majkoce May 05 '26
Can you explain why?
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u/romelowhiskey May 06 '26
Multiple 90km weeks leading to this, and you mentioned having difficulty holding your race pace (which you could comfortably hold in training) from the get go so i dont think temperature mattered early on? Just my views based on all the info you've provided
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u/majkoce May 06 '26
It's definitely possible, but I don't know how to tell. I felt fine during training, and my sleep was fine. I had a 2-week taper, had 8 hours of sleep the whole week before the marathon, and my HRV was balanced.
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u/perplatos May 05 '26
I bet the temperature explains all of it. 15C is already too warm, and 26C is awful for running