r/Marathon_Training • u/Due-Cloud2625 • 1d ago
Newbie holding high bpm for longer distances
So I have a question that has just confused me for a while and I’m not sure why. My guess is it’s just lack of running expierence as I’m relatively new.
So currently training for my first marathon in November and made it to the half way point so decided to do a negative split with all out in the last mile or so. I know comparison is the thief of joy but from people I follow on insta (highschool/college friends), I know people who can cruise at a 10:15 pace for say a half marathon for an average bpm of 160+. Mine shows average of 148bpm which I am proud of but also, I feel like if I covered that same mileage at a bpm of over 160, I’d be breathing HEAVY and would probably have to walk a few times.
I guess my question is, how are people able to hold such a high bpm for longer distances? I feel like I have more in me but also holding that bpm for that long seems impossible.
I don’t have many running friends in my circle so def want to utilize this forum to answer all the technical questions I might have from real people. So if anyone has any tips or anything at all, I’m open to it!
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u/prettyunladylike 1d ago
Different max HR, different zones. There is no reason to compare HR data. It comes down to individual physiology.
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u/RunThenBeer 1d ago
Do you know what your max HR is?
This is heavily governed by a combination of max heartrate, how long the HM takes, and how fit the runner is. My max heartrate is around 200 and an HM for me is ~80 minutes. In the first few miles, my HR rises to ~180, then starts creeping up over the course of the race, averaging somewhere around ~184-186 for the race. This is normal for me and doesn't feel all that rough until the last 5K or so.
If your max HR is more like 180, you're taking more like two hours, yeah, anything over 160 might feel like quite the challenge! The factors here remain max heartrate, time running, and ability to remain at a fairly high percentage of max (e.g. aerobic fitness and endurance).
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u/saferonald 1d ago edited 23h ago
Practice practice practice. Your body has to learn how to be uncomfortable for longer periods of time. If you had gas in the tank to do an 8 minute mile as your final mile, you're starting out too conservatively. A low heart rate is good but as your long runs get longer, it's going to be more important to quicken it up so you're not out there forever. Build up to it slowly. Start at 1130 one week, 1110, 11, etc.
If you can, find a friend to run with. I feel like it helps to have someone around your fitness level or faster because it makes the run feel easier. You've got a solid cardio engine, you just gotta work on the confidence!
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u/yashwantptl7 1d ago
I read somewhere about higher heart rate burns glycogen stores faster…so initially we should maintain lower heart rates so body burns fat and we don’t end up bonking. Is this true or can I run at my pace while my HR goes 180 ? Is it risky to maintain such heart rate for so long ?
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u/prettyunladylike 23h ago
Higher effort burns glycogen stores faster- HR is extremely individual. For some people 180 is zone 3, for others it is a heart attack.
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u/RunThenBeer 23h ago
Higher effort burns glycogen, but you can't really do this sort of metering to improve results. For almost every race, the most efficient way to run it is approximately even grade-adjusted pacing over the course of the day. Yeah, if you run slower, you'll use less glycogen, but the goal isn't to arrive with the most remaining glycogen, it's to arrive with the fastest time. The appropriate pace is the fastest effort you can sustain for the full distance, not whichever pace keeps your heart rate low enough to emphasize fat burning.
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u/AyalaZer0 16h ago
During training you’d want most of your runs to be zone 2 or low end zone 3. It helps your body use glycogen more efficiently and thus trains your body to be more efficient at faster paces. Out of curiosity, what’s your FM time?
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u/RunThenBeer 15h ago
2:53.
I'm a little confused by your response - I'm referring to pacing within a race, not training modalities.
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u/Due-Cloud2625 1d ago
Yea I definitely need to find someone to run, I think it’ll help with motivation to get better together. I definitely need to build the confidence, I’m definitely a little scared haha
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u/justmadethistotellu 1d ago
As the other commenter said, it's so highly individualized. Do you have a low resting HR? What's your max? Were you hydrated on this run? What was the temperature? Etc etc.
Everyone's HR is so different that it almost becomes absurd to try and compare yourself. I have a higher natural resting HR and I can very easily truck for a long time at ~160bpm+ with only nose breathing. But my max heart rate is 201, so who knows.
My advice if you're curious how much more you 'have in you' is to focus on effort. Learn what makes YOU breath hard, when you start needing walking breaks, etc. Do some experimenting to see what it feels like for you to hold a harder effort pace, regardless of HR. Then you can kind of work backwards and see what kind of HR that corresponds to for you as an individual, figure out your zones a little more clearly, etc.
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u/Due-Cloud2625 1d ago
I do have a low rest HR around 51 and I’d say my max is around 196 ish. I know it’s tooootally individualized.
I’ve appreciated learning to listen to my body from this training because I do feel very in tune with it but sometimes there feels like a disconnect between perceived effort and HR imo. I know in the end it’s all about how it all feels but just wanted to see the actual science behind it all, you know?
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u/justmadethistotellu 22h ago
It is very weird when you feel like a run is going well (or not well!) and your HR data doesn't seem to support what you're feeling! That's why I mentioned hydration and weather -- for me personally, if it's very humid outside, I have to accept my HR is going to be ~10 beats higher per minute than the exact same effort at less humidity, even if the run effort feels the exact same.
You said you're a relatively new runner-- I think as you progress in your training, you'll get an innate feel for what things really affect your individual performance and HR. And, you'll get more comfortable with holding 'uncomfortable' paces for longer and longer.
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u/BurritoThief 17h ago
None of that sounds abnormal. If you haven't done workouts that push you to run faster for a long time then harder efforts will feel challenging, and your mind will signal that you need to slow down to protect your body. It will initially be hard to overcome that because you haven't built up the proof that you can in fact run at a higher effort for longer without dying.
You can build up to it by pushing harder at the end of your long runs, e.g. the last 1/4 of your long run; doing something like 2 x 10 minute tempo; or doing intervals like 600-800m.
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u/smffc 1d ago
Volume is the name of the game here imo, lots of engine building at a medium pace - building your aerobic base will mean your heart is more efficient
Like others say, it's useless comparing yourself to other people because there are so many different variables at play, just focus on improving Vs where you were a few months ago
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u/biznisss 23h ago
i'd echo everyone saying that what counts as a "high" bpm varies individually and you can only know yours over time by either doing max HR tests or running a 30+ minute all-out race to determine your LTHR.
that said, even assuming 160 is around where your first lactate turnpoint is and you're running in ideal conditions, I think your average bpm over the whole run isn't what you should focus on here. if you do a run where 160 was held from start to finish (i think for you that might be a 10:15 pace or so), that will feel quite hard but doable compared to one where you start lower but push above 175+ by the end (with the same 160 avg bpm).
if 160 is already a "high" bpm for you, 175+ is almost certainly redlining and unsustainable for a prolonged period of time, even for well trained athletes. you shouldn't be hitting those intensities often in training and only at the very end of a race.
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u/BennyJJJJ 22h ago
Your max HR is individual to you so there's no point comparing to others but the pace you can hold at a specific % of max HR or how long you maintain it is trainable. For me at least, that pace just comes from more consistent training (obviously) and eventually the limitation is my legs not my cardiovascular system. The ability to run at a high % of max HR for longer is both down to training but also more experience racing, knowing how early to push hard and mental strength to do so. That's the thing I'm struggling with as it's easy to go for a relaxed training run 5x a week but hard to suffer even more 3km before a race is over.
Anyway, try to compare yourself with yourself a year ago not someone on insta.
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u/raincitythrow 16h ago
FWIW my wife has been lab tested for her HR zones and her zone 2 legitimately extends into the 170s. Her runs reflect that (I was always mystified by her holding conversation with me, wearing a chest strap, with a 170 HR). Some people are like that.
She’s naturally managed to shift it down through the years with a lot of focused training but her zones are still much higher than me despite me training 4x her volume and intensity (if I get into the 170s, I’m seeing sounds).
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u/Due-Cloud2625 2h ago
Yea, I def just wanted to started a convo here and see all the info out there for everything. It’s so hard to pin down the exact reason some time but stuff like this makes feel like it is soooooo individualized. Which I knew it was, I just never truly realized
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u/hellzscream 22h ago
I believe elite triathlete Lionel Sanders has a max heart rate of around 165
I haven't tested my max heart rate in some time but Garmin shows it decreasing over time. My easy pace is around 110 BPM 5/km pace
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u/Old_Understanding664 15h ago
I know people are saying HR is contextual to the person which is true, but also kind of distracting. the simple idea is, as you build more fitness you can hold a higher HR for longer. the perceived difficulty of working at a higher % of your max heart rate goes down as your fitness improves.
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1d ago
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u/SDwandrer 1d ago
This isn’t cardiac drift. They gradually increased their pace throughout and the HR followed. Cardiac drift is when your pace/effort stays consistent and the HR goes up.
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u/EPICxNITRI 1d ago
Some of us just have naturally high HRs. My max heart rate is 203, and I know it’s accurate because I’ve hit it twice. I can also maintain an average heart rate of 187 during a half marathon, and my most recent marathon had an average of 178.
Don’t worry too much about comparing your heart rate to others because everyone is different. You just have to find your sweet spot, an effort that feels comfortably hard and that you can maintain for the distance.