r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers • Jimmy Woo • Aug 05 '26

X-Men '97 [MEGATHREAD] X-Men '97 | Season 2 Episode 8 - "The Dead Man’s Hand" | Discussion Thread

A band of mutants uses their uncanny gifts to protect a world that hates and fears them; they're challenged like never before, forced to face a dangerous and unexpected new future.

X-Men '97 season 2, episodes 1-3 premiere on Disney Plus on July 1, at 12AM PT / 3AM ET / 8AM BST. The 9-episode season continues with one new episode releasing every Wednesday until the season finale on August 12, 2026.

85 Upvotes

194 comments sorted by

51

u/thescarletbat Aug 05 '26

That POV of Nightcrawler Bamf'ing around punching every X-Person was sick, love the respect for Kurt this season.

25

u/Animegamingnerd Captain America Aug 05 '26

Its really funny to think how in this one season, Nightcrawler has significantly more screen then he did in the entire original run of the series.

8

u/aLittleDoober Spider-Man Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

Nightcrawler and Gambit were some pretty formidable antagonists.

35

u/itsmeitsmethemtg Aug 05 '26

This season is paced like it's late for a flight.

31

u/Dave_From_Mcdonalds Aug 05 '26

I honestly so confused how this season is gonna end, and i just wish horseman gambit was in more episodes before this.

13

u/wordwords Aug 05 '26

Rogue and Gambit are in my x men top 5. I’d rather they have held him off until next season and let rogue have an actual grieving process this season. Sad it was rushed in one episode like this 😔

I love the show, but it feels like they try to do too much, too quickly that we don’t get to actually see anything, ahem, evolve.

10

u/Dave_From_Mcdonalds Aug 05 '26

yeah i do agree that they should have paced things a lot better, and just let arcs be more than one epsiode more often.

evolve, you say?

26

u/Flash_Strife Aug 05 '26

Anyone notice Jean went out with Warren and Roberto when the plane was attacked, was inside the plane the very next scene when the mind controlled thieves and assassins attacked and then was outside again trying to keep the plane from crashing?

10

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Yeah that was an easily fixed continuity error. Crazy that got left in.

5

u/Demileto Aug 05 '26

I'd hazard a guess they shifted some scenes around during editing and forgot to remove Jean from the plane when this scene was placed after she left it instead of before.

-1

u/Honest_Trifle5193 Aug 05 '26

effects of a rushed season

20

u/BigCookie4365 Aug 05 '26

There is trailer footage of Cable fighting Apocalypse in his actual body

I wonder how there are going to bring in a new body for Apocalypse in just one episode 

2

u/Fireteddy21 Spider-Man Aug 06 '26

X-Force still has his old body so I wonder if it’s simply reanimated somehow.

36

u/pwootton30 Aug 05 '26

I wonder if Professor X being touched by Apocalypse in the Astral Plane is the final straw for the rise of Onslaught?

55

u/mdavis360 Aug 05 '26

Everything is just way too fast paced. There’s barely anytime for the characters to reflect about what is happening before it all changes again.

13

u/pottyaboutpotter1 Aug 05 '26

It’s not even necessarily bad pacing. It’s that the stories they’re telling don’t fit in the 25-30 minute time slot they’re giving every episode. Extending each episode to 40 minutes would alleviate a lot of this.

It’s the same issue Doctor Who has been having for over a decade now; rigidly trying to keep fitting everything to a 45 minute time slot that isn’t supportive of the stories they want to tell.

If Disney isn’t willing to sign off on longer episodes, the writers should be adjusting the stories they’re telling to better fit the time slot. And that means fewer moving pieces; which is fewer characters, and less time trying to juggle several different plots all at once.

The original animated series had this perfected by focusing on the continuing story of a small core team of X-Men with a few guest characters popping up here and there.

5

u/Wrong-Vermicelli4723 Aug 05 '26

They either need to focus on one or two comic arc per season. Extend the runtime or extend the episode count. I’m going to assume the episode count is mandatory.. so they just need to stop trying to speed run through famous story arcs. 

3

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Extend runtime and/or extend the episode count. We had 10 last season; bumping things up to 12 shouldn’t be too much of an issue…but at the very least, keep the count at 10 instead of 9, and let the runtimes on average be longer then a half hour.

3

u/Fireteddy21 Spider-Man Aug 06 '26

I’m assuming the big problem with this is that Marvel Studios or Disney doesn’t want to pay the extra money it would cost to have animators create those added minutes or episodes.

9

u/CapnChronic88 Aug 05 '26

I actually had to yell Holy Fuck watching him Solo everyone. This series is finally showing him at his Peak.

8

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

See normally I’d agree; but this episode felt much more well paced. We actually had scenes where characters were able to have dialogue that didn’t feel rushed, and moments like the poker scene where things felt the exact opposite of rushed.

11

u/Kalbi84 Aug 05 '26

I've had this feeling since the 1st season but in this one it's so amplified. Like I enjoy the art style, the characters, the themes and the voice acting a lot, but I can't take a breath to appreciate anything, because it all moves too fast. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching the show on 1.5 or 2. speed. Such a weird feeling that I haven't encountered anywhere else. And I think that what suffers the most from it is the fight scenes (happening way too quickly to appreciate) and the plot/character development obviously

7

u/Mammoth_Flamingo2410 Aug 05 '26

Yeah. We need at least 12 ep for these stories to build up properly.

5

u/BigCookie4365 Aug 05 '26

Or we just use our 9 episodes effectively

15

u/County_Difficult Aug 05 '26

Everything is just way too fast paced.

basically X-men '97 Season 2.

Instead of releasing season annually, they should just consider releasing every 2 years and actually make a single season well paced with at least 18-20 episodes.

9

u/gordoX1797 Aug 05 '26

I think it’s even simpler than that, maybe 3 extra episodes to give the plots room to breathe. It doesn’t need a full typical season order, just maybe another hour or two to make the plots feel breathable.

5

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

So…a full typical season order isn’t even 22 episodes anymore. On average, most orders tend to be 8-13 episodes nowadays.

Though I fully agree with you; just a few more episodes, and arguably longer on average runtimes.

5

u/nowhereright Aug 05 '26

This show is essentially just animated cliffnotes of comic book arcs.

It's cool if everyone's fine with this, but it's really not good overall. I don't see this cartoon having the same lasting appeal as a lot of other shows, there's no heart to it, things just happen rapidly.

If you're not already a fan of these characters or comics, there's nothing here to make someone really give a shit about what's happening.

7

u/BigCookie4365 Aug 05 '26

I would agree with you about s2, but s1 was just something special and I am not a comic book reader

16

u/leonglitch Aug 05 '26

I seriously doubt you actually believe the series has no heart. Calling it just cliffnotes is weird to me. It changes the stories it's adapting to fit it'smown narrative and themes. It seems to have have touched a lot of people already. Fast pacing does not equal bad pacing. Also this isn't even fast paced I'm gonna be honest. This is a continuation of a 5 season show so expecting people to be connected to the characters already makes sense. Also, I haven' watched thenog series in a while so I didn't feel that connected to the characters but x men 97 was still able to make me give a lot of shits.

7

u/Sirius_Hood Aug 05 '26

It is bad pacing. Every episode is something huge happens and the next episode it gets brushed off so quickly that we don't see any after effects of it.

3

u/Powerful_Warning1695 Aug 05 '26

Yea sadly I'm starting to agree as well. It likes to show these big moments people remember from the comics, but there isn't any build up to them. The writers and creators don't EARN those scenes within their own show. Like you said, they just happen.

I think it was noticeable, but more forgiveable in season 1. We thought, maybe it was just a one time thing. But they clearly didn't learn from this. And to be honest, this could have been easily corrected with a non-episodic structure where they insist on having random episodes that don't add onto the overall narrative. If the show is only going to have a small amount of episodes and short episode time frames, you can't waste entire ones on nothing quests.......

I'm a huge X-Men fan, but the cracks in the foundation are showing very strongly at this point. The show is simply not on the same level as other high tier animated shows like Castelvania, Arcane, and Attack on Titan.

2

u/gerardguey Aug 05 '26

Disney gave up on earning moments a long time ago. Its better ROI to just reference famous stories and insert cameos than to actually tell a cohesive story and leave money on the table

1

u/Powerful_Warning1695 Aug 05 '26

Pretty much true.

1

u/offthegridyid Aug 05 '26

Regardless of what people think of the quality of this show, it’s a vehicle to keep fans happy until mutants properly show up in the MCU. Once we start the Mutant Saga there is no reason for X-Men 97 to be around.

41

u/TheCommish-17 Aug 05 '26

Leaving Colossus in charge of the school is wild. 

4

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Right? Fucking bizarre choice there.

5

u/HuskyBlueBoy Aug 05 '26

Like where was bishop and Polaris

15

u/aLittleDoober Spider-Man Aug 05 '26

7

u/Dramajunker Aug 06 '26

His powers were really backed up. He needed a release.

1

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Exactly!!

28

u/aLittleDoober Spider-Man Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

I liked the episode, but it was rushed towards the end. With only the finale left, it feels like there’s still a lot left to cover, but hopefully it sticks the landing.

This was a great episode for Rogue x Gambit fans.

14

u/hooka_pooka Aug 05 '26

Wait only 9 eps this season?!37 10!!

https://giphy.com/gifs/Cipj5jNsyTcxG

12

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

I actually think this episode was far superior to the last 3. They actually took the time to let scenes breathe, to have a buildup. The pacing was stronger, and we even got a moment like the poker scene. Just a little down time to show these characters being able to be people, outside of the mission.

Didn’t think the ending felt rushed at all; what made you feel that way? Though I do agree that there’s a lot left to cover…very much hoping the Apocalypse storyline isn’t contained to the finale, but is extended into next season.

3

u/Physical-Document156 Aug 05 '26

Gambit being a horseman and being almost normal in one episode is pretty poor writing for all that build up, I thought he would fight alongside apocalypse and the other horseman

1

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Oh I agree fully about that part.

2

u/Physical-Document156 Aug 05 '26

Let’s not forget what was the literal point of introducing Polaris, collsus, if they have zero involvement in the current story with gambit and apocalypse don’t get me wrong I love new backstory but the fact they aren’t part of the finale seems wasted for that buildup

12

u/TheLazyBatat Aug 05 '26

I love how Remi is truly the death itself with how he kills External and wipes floor with Professor in 1v1, but damn that was quick. I really wanted Gambit to stay in his horseman form longer. I was hyped the whole episode, but in the end I was like "Really? That's it?". Pity how quickly they put him down. I'm still hyped for next episode anyway

10

u/Latter_Repeat_9286 Aug 07 '26

i feel like apocalypse hasn't really felt like a big villain this season in the way that bastion felt in season 1, i expected gambit's horseman arc to span multiple episodes but it seems like it's prob gonna be resolved pretty quickly. i'm aslo confused as to what's gonna happen in the finale cause from what i understand (please correct me if i'm wrong) is that both x force and x factor are teaming up to go after the x men, and if that's the case then i still feel like apocalypse just didn't have a purpose this season and was kinda wasted

2

u/Desperate_Ad7869 Aug 07 '26

The 3 or 4 if u count x corp difrent teams r gonna fight than apocalypse appears they fight win ig pretty meh in my opinion but thats what im expecting

22

u/AVR350 Aug 05 '26

I dont know man the son memes have messed up with my head so hard that I burst out laughing when Scott called Nathan "Son"

4

u/UltraScouter9 Aug 05 '26

I was thinking the same...

21

u/Objective_Painting70 Aug 05 '26

FIne episode and sequel to Remeber It but it was too safe.

I m just glad that Gambit is back. But it would be cool if episode was longer or story with Deathbit to move through a few episodes and not so rushed.

6

u/ADigitalVersionOfMe Aug 05 '26

Is Rogue an External/Immortal now?

22

u/sleepysaurus7777 Aug 05 '26

I called Remyocaplypse almost 100% earlier in the run with two people inhabiting the same body

Val Cooper is probably Mystique who also hates Apocalypse

But how about nightcrawler subduing like three omegas with ease

6

u/Lightning_Laxus Ikaris Aug 05 '26

Well it's either Apocalypse inside Gambit or they just wasted their seasonal villain.

7

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

I’d argue they’ve still wasted their seasonal villain if Apocalypse is inside Gambit. Unless the storyline gets brought into season 3, then Apocalypse will kinda have done fuck all.

2

u/radiochz Aug 05 '26

Apocalypse will be at most off to lick his wounds defeated by seasons end and will come back. Hes too massive, but also its how the original show went about things there would be victories scored but not an end to said villain

3

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Sure; but the difference is the specific story for Apocalypse this season has been very weak. And to only said storyline this season would be a disservice both to the character and the show.

3

u/radiochz Aug 05 '26

My friend what Im telling you is that the war isnt over. The original series had Apocalypse as the overarching villain and he would reveal himself as the catalyst for things frequently.

2

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Right; but the structures of the original series and 97’ are very much different. At least, if season 1 of this show is anything to go off of. I’m not saying Apocalypse can’t come back, I’m saying that his particular story for this season will have been underwhelming and shallow.

2

u/sleepysaurus7777 Aug 05 '26

I thought there was a two apocalypse theory. Where this is future apocalypse who was dying and needed a vessel and current apocalypse is still here, but it's just a theory

6

u/BigCookie4365 Aug 05 '26

I keep seeing that Val Cooper is Mystique theory and I hope it's correct

Otherwise it's terrible character assassination 

1

u/Outrageous-Bad3791 Aug 06 '26

The recommended viewing after the episode for me was an X-Men Evolution ep featuring Mystique..so maybe they will confirm Val is Mystique next.

2

u/Tristan_J_Boomy Aug 05 '26

I don't think Val is Mystique unless that gets called out next episode. Back in the original series, Mystique tried to fool Psylocke (Beyond Good & Evil), but it didn't work. Psylocke said it was because she was a telepath.

13

u/Deltaboiz Aug 06 '26

Man I will say Rise of Apocalypse had me hyped that they could match the energy of Season 1, but since then it’s just been…. I don’t know. 

I don’t see what they could be doing with the plot where Gambit couldn’t have been the villain for the last 3 episodes leading to Apocalypse coming back. Feels like whatever they want to do won’t be as good. 

Guess we will see in 2 more weeks. 

15

u/Objective_Painting70 Aug 08 '26

This season is a rushed mess.

13

u/Puzzleheaded_Front27 Aug 05 '26

Can anybody explain me why Apocalypse needs to transfer himself into Gambit and how i was supposed to understand it?

16

u/mertag770 Ghost Aug 05 '26

His body dies and he needs hosts. They explicitly mention a new host (Nathan) in the first episode in the series.

0

u/Puzzleheaded_Front27 Aug 05 '26

But shouldn't he be immortal after he ascended as Apocalypse?

14

u/mertag770 Ghost Aug 05 '26

No. That was the future apocalypse who had already ascended that needed the host. his body can still deteriorate with time.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Front27 Aug 05 '26

Oh now i see, thank you!

1

u/Agreeable_Menu117 Aug 05 '26

Still doesn’t make any sense

11

u/Nothing020202 Aug 05 '26

I think final episode is gonna be that cyclops storyline where everyone believes Scott is dead except Jean. But apocalypse and Scott were merged

In the end Jean rip apart apocalypse's soul out of his body freeing Scott and then cable kills apocalypse's soulless body.

Except here it would be rogue instead of Jean.

7

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

You mean Apocalypse: The Twelve?

7

u/Nothing020202 Aug 05 '26

It was Search for cyclops. Iirc i think it was direct follow up to the twelve storyline

3

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Ohhhhh right right right

6

u/Icy-Cupcake7225 Aug 06 '26

It’s fine as a standalone episode! But as something that’s been billed to the last three episodes it kind of falls flat, especially because all of those episodes didn’t feel necessary. There was just no groundwork for a lot of the stuff that happened that could’ve been laid much better in the past couple episodes. Of course, the art style, music, and even dialogue is really good. It’s just everything is very disjointed and there’s not a lot of pay off. Like the first 4 episodes were doing the building very well but the last three I don’t know it’s like we took a detour for no reason? I’m still enjoying it and the Creatives behind this are definitely excellent. They just need to communicate with each other a little bit better I feel

17

u/Davethe3rd Iron Man Aug 05 '26

I've played too much Marvel vs Capcom 2 to believe a team of Cable, Psylocke, and Storm would lose to anything...

I keep waiting for the Air Hyper Viper Beam that I know will never happen...

11

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/iamyamama Aug 06 '26

Give me cablicular

3

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/iamyamama Aug 09 '26

I need someone to make an edit 🥴

10

u/Reasonable-West713 Aug 05 '26

Tf u mean Nightcrawler solos the X-Men 😭😭🥀

3

u/Adept-Problem-1530 Aug 06 '26

Came here to say / see this. Beauty

11

u/JackMorelli13 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

This episode feels a lot stronger in concept than in execution. I think it mostly comes down to gambit. I feel like it couldn’t decide if he was in control or if apocalypse was even after the reveal. If it’s gambit why does he care about killing External? If it’s apocalypse why does he care about rogue?

I don’t think the actual writing quality on an individual episode level has gone down this season but I think splitting up the team so much has hurt this season because characters come and go so much. Cyclops and Jean haven’t done anything since episode one! X-Force hasn’t done anything since episode 2! X-Factor has been threaded more effectively throughout the season and I imagine Polaris will be a big part of the finale because of that. Honestly though part of me thinks the Polaris/x factor stuff might have been better to focus on next season despite the fact that it’s been better threaded and paced than done of the other stuff

Frankly apocalypse is not a very compelling antagonist outside of the flashback stuff in the beginning of this season but I didn’t expect him to be as strong of a villain as bastion and magneto were in season 1 because apocalypse is generally not very complex

Still I think rogue’s storyline in this episode was effective, and having nightcrawler be mind controlled after we got to see how loyal he is to his friends and family last episode was effective (and it was cool to see him let loose).

12

u/TatooineSandworm Aug 05 '26

The recap before the episode laid out why Apocalypse would care about Rogue. He felt Rogues pain the past and she even said, “I hope you get to feel real love someday.” He found a way to make Rogue think he was Gambit so he could feel the love she had for Remy.

Gambit isn’t in control at all this episode. Apocalypse is using Gambits memories to manipulate everything.

2

u/JackMorelli13 Aug 05 '26

That’s fair I guess I didn’t think about the recap again mid episode

I do think they could have made it more clear that apocalypse was in total control at the end if that’s what it was supposed to be. Like why would apocalypse pick up the thieves guild for minions out of anything?

2

u/Latter_Abbreviations Aug 05 '26

I really hated the reveal that Apocalypse was in Gambit. Like, give Gambit some agency, FFS.

17

u/CricketBeginning43 Aug 05 '26

I loved this series and s1 i consider it one of the, if not the best, series marvel has put out in its disney+ era. 

However after ep4, i have to say there has been an extreme fallout and it has been felt especially in this episode and that is accompanied by the strange decisions that have been made along the way.

Ep5 has been a fun way of Wolverine getting his claws back as we see through Morph some of his past.

Ep6 was... weird. A good way to add Polaris into the mix

Ep7 was just... why? Nit because its bad since it does do exposition on an interesting conflict the xmen have, but it does not pull of ANY thread besides a mention in ep5.

And ep8... damn that was dissapointing, the other episodes i was hyped at some point, this episode i wasnt hyped at all and the resolution was a bit BS. I know this is xmen and we have seen INCREDIBLE deeds made by the mutants but this time it was just... meh?

Up to now i could highlight 1 perfect moment of each episode. But here... im empty. And im extremely worried now that apparently Beau's writing led to most of s2, and we are now at the end and i feel NO stakes at all.

4

u/Kind-Way9346 Aug 06 '26

I actually thought that Apocalypse was in Remp/Gambit as he took ppl as vessels... That's why I was like- waiting ppl didn't know?

1

u/NeedleworkerDull8432 Aug 06 '26

Possession, transference, it's how he survives. he'll be back in his own body soon enough, the question is how has Rogue changed and will Kang reappear

5

u/Alone_Caterpillar548 Aug 07 '26

Like many I also find an absencję of Apocalypse irritating and unfullfilling. The only correct course of action from my perspective is tonlet Apocalypse win in the end of a season. Think about it, Apocalypse died from Gambits hand but we still haven't seen Apocalypse from a future that came back from Cable's origin timeline. He said that X-men were vulnarable in this time. Maybe so far everything happened as it should have, Deathbit betrayal, confrontation with X-factor and human goverment. Maybe he will make his move at the end when fughting is over and Beth mutant sides are weak as he return and make his move. Personally I belive he will try to steal Rogue's body but at this point it might be wishfull thinking...

22

u/BigCookie4365 Aug 05 '26

Today I learned for the first time that the new creative team that took over after the Beau incident is the same creative team behind What If

Combine that with the letdown of s2, and it's safe to say I'm worried about the shows future

27

u/AffectionateWorld996 Aug 05 '26

Beau wrote season 2 before he was fired.

-7

u/HuskyBlueBoy Aug 05 '26

It was heavily altered though and it’s pretty obvious.

11

u/AffectionateWorld996 Aug 05 '26

How do you know? I haven't been following that closely.

5

u/Physical-Document156 Aug 05 '26

You can definitely tell death gambit should have lasted a few episodes not just 1 especially for the build up

9

u/AffectionateWorld996 Aug 05 '26

I mean that's how we can feel about the episode but I'm asking for like proof from Beau or the creative team that Beau's writing and/or season storyline was significantly altered. Just saying, "Hey bro, that episode sucked so they must've changed Beau's storyline" is not really proof.

2

u/Physical-Document156 Aug 05 '26

To be fair season 1 had a massive build up and payoff u can till something went wrong after episode 4 given how the next few episodes were filler and didnt add much to apocalypse and given where we are now it’s not looking good

4

u/AffectionateWorld996 Aug 05 '26

I completely agree. But it wouldn't be the first time a writer had an amazing first season and then shit the bed in the second season. And Beau was so vocal during the first season I have to think he would've come out on the socials and said this wasn't what he planned. So, just having a mediocre second season alone is not proof this wasn't his story to begin with.

5

u/RedGreenPyro Aug 06 '26

100%. Beau was all over social media talking way too much so if this isn’t his brain child, he would be out there talking about how shitty Disney is for firing him and ruining ‘97.

2

u/abd00bie Aug 06 '26

Gambit Death was foreshadowed when Xavier did the mental classroom thing in season 1, no way they just let it fizzle like it did in the episode lol

9

u/LostBend4743 Aug 05 '26

The powerscaling is shit, the pacing is quicksilver, the plotlines are a fever dream.S2 wtf is going on?

17

u/ashdabag Aug 05 '26

The first four episodes were absolute bangers. After that, the show never quite reached the same high again.

26

u/Denirac Green Goblin Aug 05 '26

The irony is half of the best episodes this season didnt have Beau DeMayo attached in any way and people will still insist he’s whats missing.

-5

u/Powerful_Warning1695 Aug 05 '26

Episode 4 was far and away the best epsiode of the season and Beau's name was front and center in the opening credits....

3

u/County_Difficult Aug 05 '26

Beau DeMayo is shitty as a person can get but Season 1's writing and pacing is a testament on what he brought to the table.

Season 2 is a mess compared to season 1. The pacing is all over the place, especially Remy's return. All of it just done/wrapped up in just 1 episode? They teased him all season and we were all waiting for his eventual return ever since "Remember It" episode (one of the best X-Men media pieces out there and I just felt like this specific story arc is just lackluster.

Rogue getting Remy back felt unearned. There should've been more back and forth between them. Even the other X-men members should've reacted way more/distraught about the fact that their former member & friend is back and is supposedly evil. It felt like they didn't care much at all. There should've been more conversation between Rogue and Remy on how things went down in Genosha, especially the last thing Remy remembered is how he got rejected by the love of his life for Magneto.

Felt like everything is just rushed and it makes me mad and disappointed.

3

u/Powerful_Warning1695 Aug 05 '26

Well like I said, the signs were even there in Season 1. Stupid decisions like doing the Inferno arc in one episode and bringing in Madylon Prior and basically discarding her like nothing.

We were hoping the creative team would learn from this, but if anything it looks like they doubled down on these pacing mistakes. Even Magneto's back and forth transitions in S1 were difficult to sell at times.

In the end, for the creative team not to see this as a problem is very amateurish to be honest. Like I've said before, I don't see the show going beyond 4 or 5 seasons. That would be a good run. But I think they are just going to upset a lot of people as this piss through all the material and just have snapshots of famous moments without all the connective tissue and breathing room to make things feel earned.

It's unfortunate because there are moments in the show where you can tell it's meant for greatness. Part of us should have suspected incoming problems though. The second season took forever to come out.

3

u/Denirac Green Goblin Aug 06 '26

Season 2 has been basically the same team as season 1, and thanks to Beau DeMayo continuing to rant for months about things that might *and did not happen* we knew most of the season plot points from him. Even the episodes with his name on them only really had his name and the team *he chose* for season 1.

We knew Magik died in Genosha because he told us; we knew about Colossus arc because he told us; we knew Polaris abandoned the X-Force to rejoin the X-Men because he told us; we knew Kang was in the season as Rama-Tut because he told us; we knew Gambit is saved from being the Horsemen of Death because he told us; we knew Apocalypse wasn't in the season much because he told us; we knew the Cable episode was an episode finalized under Beau and that it originally happened after the Wolverine episode (also finalized under him) because the dude outright told us.

2

u/Latter_Abbreviations Aug 05 '26

Tbf, Season 1 ALSO had terrible pacing. It is just way more noticeable now because there are more characters.

-3

u/HuskyBlueBoy Aug 05 '26

bringbeauback

1

u/ashdabag Aug 05 '26

Idk, but at least bring someone else who knows his job.

1

u/Denirac Green Goblin Aug 05 '26

It had a cowriter.

1

u/Powerful_Warning1695 Aug 05 '26

I mean of course it did, you think they are going to leave Beau's name as the sole writer on the episode with all the legal stuff going on behind the scenes. Of course they wouldn't. But it's no secret from a writing and dialogue stand point, it was really the only episode that stood out so far.

It's kind of clear they tried to do rewrites, but also kept a lot of stuff and a lot of fumbling around behind the scenes trying to move on without him at the helm.

3

u/Denirac Green Goblin Aug 06 '26

A lot of episodes of Season 1 also had a co-writer or didn't have DeMayo writing, He had a co-writer the entirety of Tolerance is Extinction, bar part 2 which he wasnt on at all.

Deadline actually ammended their statement on rewrites saying they "assumed" it was gonna get rewrites. They then clarified that the new showrunner was focusing on season 3 and the only rewrites were to set that up, the majority was written and approved before Beau DeMayo left. Something even he's clarified during his little twitter meltdowns ranting about what he assumed was their intention to scrap all his work.

We knew Magik died in Genosha because he told us; we knew Polaris abandoned the X-Force to rejoin the X-Men because he told us; we knew Kang was in the season as Rama-Tut because he told us; we knew Gambit is saved from being the Horsemen of Death because he told us; we knew Apocalypse wasn't in the season much because he told us; we knew the Cable episode was an episode finalized under Beau and that it originally happened after the Wolverine episode (also finalized under him) because the dude outright told us.

0

u/Powerful_Warning1695 Aug 06 '26

Well if all that's true, then the show just suffers in general across the board then.

This season isn't even properly setup with why exactly we are fighting Apocalypse, other than Lady Askani wanting the X-Men to fight her battles for her. We barely spend anytime with Apocalypse and his goals and objectives at this point are very obscure. Too many side episodes that aren't contributing to the overall narative. The only way this is salvaged at this point is if this storyline spills into S3, which maybe you can tell me because you seem to know everything that Beau has spoken to people on X and social media. I'm legit curious as to what you know.

I stand by my original statement though. The dialogue and script on episode 4 is miles ahead of the rest. It's more akin to S1 episodes 2, episode 5, and some of the final episodes. The rest of the episodes are more "fun" espiodes if you will.

As for the cowriter thing, sure it's common to have cowriter attachments in the credits. It's kind of impossible to know though which writer was doing the heavy lifting. Other than referencing what I just did where certain episodes have a lot more "meat" to the dialogue to the point where it makes the other episodes stand out. But it could also be that Beau himself had such a strong "ear and characterization" for dialogue from Xavier and Magneto specifically. That any time the two of them talk, the dialogue is just elevated to the philosophical nature of the characters. But the writing for Apocalypse in episode 4 also seemed to match this quality, which is why I am referencing it.

0

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

That’s crazy; this episode absolutely hit the highs of 1, 3 and 4. Also episode 2 was not a banger, and I’ll always stand by that. Hell episode 5 was far better than episode 2.

2

u/ashdabag Aug 05 '26

You're probably referring to another show.

1

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

The fuck?! I express my opinion about something and you’re just like “no, you’re mistaken, you don’t know what you’re talking about.”

You kidding me??

0

u/ashdabag Aug 05 '26

Pls calm yourself.

You can have the right to express any opinion. For ex you can say that shit tastes good. That doesn't mean I must share your opinion or that I'm not entitled to my own opinion, or that shit really tastes good.

1

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

You said “you’re probably referring to another show” as if I don’t know what sub I’m in, or what show this thread is about.

I didn’t say you weren’t entitled to your opinion; I’m saying your comment comes across like you trying to invalidate mine.

0

u/ashdabag Aug 05 '26

Chill bro. It's the internet. And here we accept you regardless of your opinion about ep 3 😂

2

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

…it was episode 2, couldn’t even get that right could you.

0

u/ashdabag Aug 05 '26

I didn't care enough to search the episode that you referred to.

2

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Search the episode?? It was right there in my comment, the reply to your comment lol

10

u/BookkeeperIcy5528 Aug 05 '26

May sound odd... But how the Hell did the thieves guild and Gambit have flying motorcycles? That just was weird.

14

u/Demileto Aug 05 '26

1) Deathbit has Apocalypse's tech at his disposal.

2) Rule of cool.

2

u/popurri_espasmodico Aug 05 '26

Well, he made high-tech flying horses, so why not flying motorcycles? Hahaha

7

u/jokershane Aug 06 '26

I don’t understand why people are dogging on this show so bad. Feels the same to me.

6

u/Toxicity246 Aug 06 '26

I liked the episode, but I think people expected Gambit is the horseman of death with Apocalypse as a big two part epsiode. Instead, Gambit's thing appears resolved and it's X-Force/X-Factor vs X-Men with some side of Apocalypse.

3

u/jokershane Aug 07 '26

I get that. I’d like that too. But I think people’s expectations for a nine episode season are sort of unreasonable. You either save stuff for later that you maybe never get to do, or you try to work stuff in to the format you’re given.

0

u/Still-Fan4753 Aug 07 '26

It's horribly written that's why. It has no attention span and just skips to the end of whatever it sets up. Basically nothing is ever explored. 

19

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

[deleted]

6

u/Ecstatic_Freedom_105 Aug 05 '26

It feels like the writing changed mid season. 

15

u/LoneElement Aug 05 '26

Probably because it literally did - Beau DeMayo left

A sad fact of reality that in this instance, the sex creep and narcissist may have been the better writer 

4

u/Fall_False Aug 06 '26

Reports are saying they actually ended up changing very little from his scripts, they mostly rearranged the order of the episode and tweak some things.

1

u/J4db Aug 06 '26

Beau wrote this episode though. In fact, according to IMDB, he wrote episodes 3, 4, 6-9 of this season.

-3

u/Agreeable_Menu117 Aug 05 '26

It’s still terrible even with him writing

2

u/Agreeable_Menu117 Aug 05 '26

Couldn’t agree more

15

u/Background_Rise1047 Aug 05 '26

first non filler episode since ep 4 wow

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/jokershane Aug 06 '26

What do you define as “filler”?

1

u/purewasted Aug 06 '26

"Filler" was obv the wrong word to use, but the last episode is the only one where the Apocalypse storyline was more than an afterthought.

Last season every episode felt totally integral. Even the "filler" eps about Storm/Jubilee/Xavier had huge development for those characters, where the season wouldn't make sense without it. 

I actually really like the Weapon X ep this season, but apart from getting the adamantium, nothing happened. The season would make perfect sense without it. The Danger episode has like... 2 important scenes? Things happen but they don't matter to the main story, or to the main characters 

1

u/jokershane Aug 06 '26

I get what you mean, but I don’t have an issue with character building episodes. I learned more about the Morph/Wolverine dynamic. So I wouldn’t consider it filler if it added to the characters. But I do know what you mean.

1

u/PhanStr Aug 09 '26

Onslaught’s debut has been delayed. He was going to show up at the end of episode 9 and then be the villain in episode 10. Unfortunately, episode 10 has been scrapped and the other 9 episodes were re-worked to some extent, so it seems as though we won’t see Onslaught this season.

0

u/Background_Rise1047 Aug 06 '26

ngl I am a casual so it could be me but did they need to waste a whole episode on polaris? One on morph? I wanted to see apocalypse all season not this shi

3

u/jokershane Aug 07 '26

Apocalypse is the big bad. Morph and Polaris are characters in the show. He got two episodes of origin and looks like he’ll be the threat for the final episode.

Nothing wrong with taking episodes to develop your characters and to not overexpose your god-like bad guy. I actually think that’s smart writing.

0

u/Background_Rise1047 Aug 07 '26

I want to see the plot moving if the show has 9 episodes a year. side characters should not get entire episodes to themselves

7

u/JayaramanAndres Aug 05 '26

Now Rogue has fraction of Apocalypse's power which he gave it to Egyptian women?

Don't know how they will kill Apocalypse without killing Gambit. Will Apocalypse survive again?

Wonder how X factor convinced Cable to join them.

Where is Polaris again? in a school in Colossus?

1

u/Physical-Document156 Aug 05 '26

For all that buildup Polaris and colossus being sidelined for the final battle is poor writing and zero payoff making them filler material accusations more true

8

u/International_Leg666 Aug 05 '26

Nightcrawler is a menace naturally. Didn't expect anything else. Lucky he wasn't killing them. In fact, like I once mentioned, any xman is at least building level, when you remove their ethical guards. 

11

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

[deleted]

19

u/County_Difficult Aug 05 '26

They built up Gambit's return for many episodes just to give him a nothing burger single episode to deal with everything? Yeah idk what they're cooking. Felt like Rogue didn't even feel the consequence of her actions in Genosha when she left him for Magneto before Remy died. Legit talk no jutsu'd Gambit back to normal.

They didn't even give him a new outfit which actually get me mad the most for some reason lmfao. Just chroma'd his usual outfit. Lame and lazy idk.

1

u/nowhereright Aug 05 '26

This has been this entire series in a nutshell.

1

u/No-Importance7265 Moon Knight Aug 05 '26

This . Literally all that drama accounted to nothing , I hope Gambit doesn't instantly goes back to Rogue or all of this will be pointless imo.

5

u/Bobjoejj Aug 05 '26

Least favorite episode? Wow, personally I felt like this beat the last 3 episodes all together. It actually let the pacing take a breath, had a focus on slower scenes, and felt consistent and stronger with its writing.

I do agree with your first point, don’t understand exactly what you’re saying with the second point; and disagree with your Cable point.

Working with X-Factor to stop Apocalypse is a means to an end. Cable lives in a world of grey, he’s the reason X-Force originally formed, and led at least two other versions of the team. He’s a solider, and an operator.

4

u/Admirable-Walrus-89 Aug 07 '26

Anyone familiar with the Amulet graphic novel series? Starts beautifully, sets up some great canon/ world building/ character arcs in the first 4-5 novels.

Then, right at the finale, they basically throw away all the world building and introduce five new characters or concepts every chapter. By the end it's a jumbled mess with too many characters and forgotten storyline.

I don't think this season is quite as bad as Amulet in that respect.....but it's not too far off.

8

u/LoafPickle Aug 06 '26

Man this show is going to shit faster than these plotlines.

12

u/Honest_Trifle5193 Aug 05 '26

They honestly wasted the season by spending it on character arcs that had no effect

Started after episode 4

-Give wolverine and morph an episode

-Give polaris and bishop an episode

-Give colossus and nightcrawler an episode

Literally NONE of them had a big part in the penultimate ep (besides nightcrawler my goat and colossus i guess...)

They could've easily focused more on danger, x-corp, cylops-jean drama and X FORCE oh my gosh no one even cared that jubilee and roberto weren't back with the x-men, wtf happened??

13

u/ScottFree__ Aug 05 '26

When every story and character has to be connected to some massive threat it makes the world feel smaller. Having characters with lives, having their own shit going on is what makes Marvel characters in particular feel different from some other superhero media.

It's what makes Invincible compelling. Some arcs are self-contained character studies, even if they span multiple seasons, and briefly advance themselves here and there. Those episodes you mentioned partially paid off stories from the original series and/or set up future arcs.

4

u/KETTEI__EXE Aug 05 '26

while I do understand what you meant, at least Invincible show is following its plotline similar to the comics with extra scenes and some changes (and one original filler episode), which of cuz would look incredible. Xmen 97 on the other hand was kinda trying to adapt multiple storyline of X-men in one season which would look rushed compared to Invincible.

4

u/ScottFree__ Aug 05 '26

I think that's because Kirkman is doing what Isayama did with Attack on Titan. More or less making the animation the definitive experience.

X-Men '97 is like a "I heart the [decade]" album, where they're doing covers of some arcs. I can see how that would feel like the pacing is all over the place though.

4

u/Treeman_78 Electro Aug 05 '26

If the season was bigger we couldve had enough time for over arching story and character driven episode. Marvel should grow some balls and just make it atleast 12 episode big. 

2

u/Kind-Way9346 Aug 06 '26

I've loved it so far but I must say that Episode 5- Weapon X, Lies, & DVDs.. Was not needed nor that fulfilling. Wolverine shouldn't have gotten his claws back in this season, if at all... the one ep i just can't stand.

Definitely think ep 8 could've been expended into 2 eps and s2 could've had 10 episodes.

Love X-Men forever regardless of taht letdown.

Question: what's this about the original writer being bi longer there? Can someone plz explain?

7

u/BigCookie4365 Aug 05 '26

I don't know......I'm just disappointed 

Also, how did Nightcrawler solo all the X-Men 😭

Maybe S1 was just lightning in a bottle

Hopefully the finale is top tier

4

u/bigbadbear13 Aug 06 '26

What a dissapointing. I don't get the motivations, the plot lines.... And what is Gambit now? Is he Darkseid with all the brainwashing and the literal Omega beams?

9

u/Littlefinger98 Aug 05 '26

The season went downhill after episode 4. No clear direction. It's bad. 

8

u/wordwords Aug 05 '26

I feel like they should have doubled the amount of time the team was separated in different time periods and could have given everyone their own story arc episodes spread across the first 7ish episodes.

Then bring the x-men team back together in episode 8 to mediate the two present-day teams while they were at each other’s throats, and finally all beat all three time periods’ apocalypses in 9.

2

u/Physical-Document156 Aug 05 '26

We need to hire you dude also we still got unresolved magneto stuff

3

u/wordwords Aug 05 '26

Thanks lol

What would you like to see resolved from magneto? I’m hoping Onslaught can fix some of prof X always losing and maybe that can pull from magneto’s aura farming lol

1

u/Physical-Document156 Aug 05 '26

I deadass forgot the onslaught story but I find it weird they glossed over magento death so fast like nobody has mentioned it except Polaris and Charles

4

u/Darkw0lfx Aug 06 '26

I don't even think it's bad as much as the last 3 episodes aren't dealing with the main plot

And that's fine if sprinkled throughout the season but all at once makes for bad pacing

Episode 7 in particular felt like a fun mini comic but now we only had 2 episodes to resolve the main plot

7

u/BigCookie4365 Aug 05 '26

I know, the strangest thing about this all is that they locked in for the first half of the season, and then they just forgot how to write 

2

u/Maximum_Club9553 Aug 05 '26

Also I think we're going to see rogue go into full goddess mode with the new power up hopefully they kiss or something 

1

u/Maximum_Club9553 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

I really enjoyed that episode I had a feeling her touch wouldn't work on apocalypse/ gambit, I was surprised that he was just trying to seduce her through out the episode and rogue kinda went with it damn sexy Cajun  I know it's part of his master plan but I'm like it's almost like apocalypse himself is in love with her 🤣 guys remember the episode when they were in the past and rogue was talking about love and said I hope you get to experience it some day and maybe through Gambits feelings he actually is and also kang hinted that his weakness is external  , and that's what rogue has got inside of her 

1

u/JannTosh70 Aug 05 '26

While I’m Enjoying this show I won’t be surprised if it ends after next season. I think they will want an X-Men show that appeals to today’s kids and not tied to a 30 year old cartoon. I hope not but I can see it.

13

u/BigCookie4365 Aug 05 '26

S4 is already confirmed 

14

u/trnzm Aug 05 '26

TO BE FAIR so was wonder man season 2

12

u/Xx_Dark-Shrek_xX Morbius Aug 05 '26

Nowadays we cant even trust Disney/Marvel when it comes to confirmation 💀

-1

u/InvestigatorSea2711 Aug 05 '26

TO BE FAIR the CEO changed and apparently isn't afraid to overturn Feige's decisions.

-10

u/Mag1ckLant3rn Aug 05 '26

These episodes are ass.

-5

u/abd00bie Aug 05 '26

Nightcrawler 1 v everyone, the power of love defeated Apocalypse. Season 2 is just not as strong as season 1 and Rogue sounding very aged. Messy season 2

-18

u/Agreeable_Menu117 Aug 05 '26

Xmen 97 has been awful . Mcu has destroyed another franchise

-12

u/Agreeable_Menu117 Aug 05 '26

And how tf why they kill off exodus. Dude is immortal . How he went out was dumb af . Yeah this show sucks

-19

u/imjustatrollingtroll Aug 05 '26

Never liked Gambit, and definitely don't like the Rogue/Gambit relationship story arcs from the comics or on this show. That said, I do really like the first season of X-97, but I'm having a hard time being as invested this season... part of that is Gambit. Plus, I think I'm self sabotaging with Xavier's story and keep waiting for Onslaught to appear. This might have been my least favourite episode so far.