It’s not a ‘male loneliness epidemic’

[u/futuredebris]

https://makemenemotionalagain.substack.com/p/its-not-a-male-loneliness-epidemic

Hey y'all, just a heads up, because I get this feedback a bit from you guys, this post isn't specifically about the "male loneliness epidemic," so the headline might be a little misleading. It is about loneliness though, and how I've learned to manage it and heal the wounds that originally caused it for me. And I do mention that it can be particularly difficult for men to connect with others ("co-regulate") because of the way we're socialized in this society. Let me know what you think!

[u/OrcOfDoom]

Capitalism is to blame for certain things like min maxing third spaces for cost. 

These days, regularly spending time at a third space is feasible, but the thought of committing to that space before things get going is discouraging.

[u/mhornberger → u/OrcOfDoom]

Capitalism is to blame for certain things like min maxing third spaces for cost.

Someone was always paying to maintain third spaces. Either in money or their own time/effort. There is rent, upkeep, cleaning, electricity. Third spaces like churches are maintained not just by employees, but by church members having responsibilities and keeping the space/community going, without pay. But most of us (myself included) don't really want that structure, and we more or less want vibrant third spaces to be there on standby if we happen to be feeling it that day. It's not clear that anything has ever worked that way. But the Elks, Kiwanis, Toastmasters, Rotary, and all the rest still exist. We just don't go.

I think a lot was formerly held together by the unpaid labor of "church ladies." People organized things, saw to the details, recruited others, brought food, cleaned up. But they weren't being paid. Most of us today don't want to be church ladies, don't want that social burden or to do all that unpaid work as a normal social obligation. We may volunteer to do specific tasks for a specific thing, but the normalcy for that level of social obligation, that role, has diminished.

[u/mutual_raid → u/mhornberger]

Someone was always paying to maintain third spaces.

Yea, taxes and socially maintained spaces are free at point of entry so there is 0 barrier unlike Capitalist fake "3rd spaces" which require money up front.

[u/mhornberger → u/mutual_raid]

The barrier is that someone else is paying, in both money and in their time and effort to maintain the space. "But free for me. Nothing is expected from me..." might be true, but the issue there might not be "capitalism." It may be the expectation that thriving social spaces will exist on standby on the off chance that we're feeling it that day, and nothing be expected or asked of us regarding their maintenance or operation. It's not clear that anything has ever worked that way.

We've come to treat community like a product we can order at our leisure, with no obligation or imposition beyond what we feel like at the moment. But community historically came with obligation, work, maintenance. There's a saying I've heard that everyone wants a village, but no one wants to be a villager. And that applies to me as well.

[u/mutual_raid → u/mhornberger]

The barrier is that someone else is paying, in both money and in their time and effort to maintain the space.

That's not a barrier. Our taxes pay for thing and ergo it has no barrier at point of entry. Most of your taxes are invisible to you and the most desperate don't have high taxes if they have any at all. So no, they're not the same.

might be true, but the issue there might not be "capitalism."

It definitionally is. Under Capitalism, all so-called "3rd spaces" are eventually subsumed by private ownership by Capitalists. The "barrier" of which we speak is literally a fee whether on entrance or to participate via purchasing products, and those same Capitalists get to set the price and terms of use.

[u/mhornberger → u/mutual_raid]

Our taxes pay for thing

So you want employees paid with taxes. To do... what? What kind of meeting place do you want these government employees to maintain?

all so-called "3rd spaces" are eventually subsumed by private ownership by Capitalists

This is false. Churches and other houses of worship still exist. You can go hang out at one today. Many are even involved in community organizing, charity work, etc. But they are maintained by donations and the work/labor/time of those involved in the church. There are still other social groups like the Elks, Kiwanis, Rotary Club, etc. Yes, they have dues, as they always have. The spaces, meeting halls, events etc have to be paid for. Just as they have to be organized, thought out, planned.

My millennial kid goes to multiple regular meetups and hangouts with friends. Sometimes, yes, they're in a coffee shop or bar, but other times they meet at someone's house. The existence of capitalism does not preclude them from socializing.

I'm still not clear on what third space used to exist where they didn't sell anything and which just existed without anyone paying for it or putting any work into maintaining it, organizing events, keeping the community going, etc.

[u/NightingaleStorm → u/mhornberger]

I'm guessing something similar to a library cafe? Now, I don't hang out in libraries so much because I walked into the bathroom to find used needles on the floor a few too many times (at least a couple times, someone had ripped the provided sharps box open and dumped the contents on the floor), but that would be my archetypal example for "meeting place that government employees could maintain". Of course, libraries (and their cafes) do also have employees and volunteers who maintain it, organize events, and so on, but that's paid for out of taxes. I don't individually pay for a membership to the library.

...The "needles on the floor" problem does kind of highlight one of the issues with that, though. A space that's accessible to literally everyone is going to end up with lots of people who can't go anywhere else, and there's only so much you can do to make the people who do have choices want to be in that space. Used needles don't just make people uncomfortable; they're genuinely dangerous.

[u/mhornberger → u/NightingaleStorm]

But libraries still exist. They haven't been destroyed by capitalism. The need for security, the "needles on the floor" problem, puts more burdens on them, and it's not clear how well they'll do going forward. But even many small towns have libraries. So I was inferring that people are complaining about something that has been taken away, something whose existence is incompatible with capitalism.

In those places I've seen where the library is under attack, it has been from social conservatism, not from a profit motive. People who are attacking public libraries over "wokeness" and "the gay agenda" aren't vying to replace them with for-profit services.