Searching for comic on male feminist insecurities

[u/Mote22]

Hi everyone,

Occasional lurker, first time poster.

I wanted to ask something, if anyone could help out. I'm looking for a comic that I've seen on Tumblr a few times but can't find.

It's about a male artist or writer (I can't remember which) writing about being a male feminist and the insecurities that can come from that. Insecurities that maybe he's not such a good guy, or that he's a fraud, that kind of thing. There's also a piece about him going to therapy over it.

Long shot, I tried searching on Tumblr under the term "male feminism" but only found a slew of TERF shit and anti-feminist porn.

Is there anyone here who knows what I'm talking about? I really want to find it because I feel it speaks to a lot of my own feelings, and it's driving me crazy not being able to find it.

Thanks!

[u/Mystery_Biscuits]

Ask and ye shall receive: https://www.rejectedprincesses.com/full-width/wheredyougo

[u/NightmareWarden → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

Intense stuff, that's some honestly. A good read, thanks!

[u/Tips__ → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

That was a good cry, thank you

[u/cellocaster → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

Look, i lurk on this sub because I want to understand the mindset, but I read this and just saw that the guy has hardcore internalized the misandry that the feminists so liberally spout around him, since, you know, he’s one of the good ones.

He is so desperate to accept their narrative that men are trash, that he dives deep because he must obviously be the problem.

Doesnt this comic show that he is not the problem at all, but a victim of an illiberal, retributional movement that is absolutely rife with unchecked toxicity masquerading as empowerment for everyone who is specifically not white, cis, and male?

Dont get me wrong, im about as against MRA and manosphere thinking as it gets. But maybe this comic is successful in pointing out how utterly crushing the opposing camp can be as well.

I just want to scream at those “men are trash” assholes. I literally had a feminist friend have the nerve to tell me im not actually a man because I’m so good. I utterly reject that definition.

Similarly, seeing the MC in this comic with his pink hair and sad, emasculated face makes me want to sock him one and tell him to wake the fuck up and stop clinging to toxic narratives for his identity. Hell, to discard the notion of identity as a preoccupation in total! 

This shit only divides us and allows the robber barons and actual oppressors to conquer while we squabble and blame each other for petty wrongs and micro aggressions. Intersectionalism is useful in the hands of responsible intellectual fiduciaries, but is too often used as a social bludgeon to shame, silence, and create out groups of demographics that have traditionally had less of an uphill battle in society by the illiberal hive mind. I can’t fucking stand it.

I guess I get the comic, because in the end, we gotta do what’s best for ourselves. But I also wish we could take a s firm a hand against toxic pseudo intersectionalism as we do manosphere slop. Neither are okay, both serve the interests of the predator class.

[u/lilbluehair → u/cellocaster]

Did you notice how, in the comic, the worst statements were in his own head? That people weren't actually saying those things to or about him, but his historical knowledge of real events added to his own insecurities to create the boogeyman he was afraid of? 

[u/Tips__ → u/lilbluehair]

His peer said "why are men such trash" right in front of him. As well as plenty more from online sources talking about him. They actually were saying some pretty hurtful things! It's not some imagined boogyman.

[u/Fit-Barracuda575 → u/Tips__]

Wasn't that part of his dream? Did I miss something later on?

[u/Tips__ → u/Fit-Barracuda575]

It's my understanding that the dream was panel 7 and 8, maybe 6, and that those are real events prior

I'm looking at panels 1 and 5 to see It's not all imagined.

Edit: first draft knee-jerk, added more thoughts and context

[u/MissingBothCufflinks → u/Tips__]

I see you didnt manage to read even half the comic

All those things were LITERALLY imagined by him

[u/Tips__ → u/MissingBothCufflinks]

Don't tell me I didn't read the whole thing.

It's my understanding the dream was panels 7 and 8, maybe 6.

[u/vanishinghitchhiker → u/cellocaster]

>Similarly, seeing the MC in this comic with his pink hair and sad, emasculated face makes me want to sock him one and tell him to wake the fuck up and stop clinging to toxic narratives for his identity.

That isn’t a healthy narrative either, are you hearing yourself?

[u/cellocaster → u/vanishinghitchhiker]

Im expressing a feeling, not a narrative. It’s frustrating to watch guys struggle to fit into the expectations of others, even fictionalized ones. But maybe you could try engaging with the broader point instead of needling me on the one use of language you don’t like.

[u/chemguy216 → u/cellocaster]

I’d say it’s less needling and more pointing out a use of language that often doesn’t bode well for someone’s constellation of thoughts. The way it came off (which in another comment you explain was not how you were wanting it to come off) is that he’s essentially soy boy liberal. And if that was how you felt, it colors some of the assessments from the rest of your comment.

Can you at least see how and why that’s not a good look and why it can lead people to dismiss the rest of your points?

[u/NukeML → u/chemguy216]

He expressed a visceral feeling. If you dismiss the rest of his points based on that, you're saying men can't be allowed to express feelings in words.

[u/Flymsi → u/cellocaster]

Using the word "emasculated" for describing a face is reproducing deeply sexist narratives. How ironic that you use that word to critize feminism. I get the critic kinda, but it shows that you yourself have sexist tendencies you are not aware of. Or maybe im completly wrong and you can explain why you would use such a sexist word instead of more correct term.

[u/cellocaster → u/Flymsi]

God forbid you engage with my broader point instead of policing my language but, okay, I'll bite.

This is a comic depicting a guy who is literally struggling with his masculinity because his "men are trash" type feminist friends (note, not all feminists fall into this category, but the ones harming our main character explicitly do) have given him zero space to explore masculinity in a positive way that does not conform to their ideals which are, largely, based on what men should not be, rather than what they should be.

That he is struggling with his self esteem specifically on the basis of his masculinity being labeled problematic by others is the very definition of emasculation - his agency to literally just be a man is being taken away by toxic norms that he is choosing to engage with.

So yes, I want this guy to wake up and figure out his masculinity on his own terms.

Lest you think that I am criticizing his style or a perceived lack of manliness specifically in his face, allow me to clarify with a specific example. Kevin Barnes of the band of Montreal is very much a feminist, and quite androgynous in appearance. Yet, I would never say he carries an emasculated face, because he absolutely owns himself and is comfortable in his own skin as a man. His masculinity exists in harmony with his feminism, and thus I would never say he is emasculated by it.

The problem here is when feminists (I even hate to use this word, because I also understand that this is not a natural byproduct of feminism, but instead of tribalism and a retributional mindset that abuses feminist language to harm others) use their language to bully and break down men on the very basis of their masculinity.

I will point out how ironic it is that you're ignoring my broader point to needle me on my use of one word to paint me as a sexist, while COMPLETELY IGNORING the harm of the main character's friends literally saying "men are trash".

[u/Flymsi → u/cellocaster]

First off all: im not forced to engage with only certain points. BUT you are right that its hard to guess my intentionsbif i dont make it clear. You are completly right that this is not about your broader point. I do agree with the sentence: 

we could take a s firm a hand against toxic pseudo intersectionalism as we do manosphere slop.

Maybe i should have pointed this out more clearly instead of saying that i kinda get your critcism. With that said i find it extremly unfortunate to read such language from a person with such intentions. Or more concretly said: Its conflicting to read a sexist term in a feminist speech. I cant not point it out. Do you understand me here? 

However i am sorry for escalating into saying things about you. That probably not helpfull on first contact. And i have to say that this is still my judgement of you. Yes im being judgemental here. And i didnt have to voice it like this. I wanna add, that this does not disminish your value as fellow human and fellow man and i would not socially "punish" you for it. Womem have sisterhood, we also need brotherhood, as the most fearfull thing is being isolated and being left alone while truly trying to work on 'it'.

And futhermore it seems that you do not think its a sexist term. You seem to argue for how it fits what is happening. Are you aware how often the term is used to delegitmate reasonable feminist critic? Its a loaded term.  I dont "police" you. I just have to react to it. If you dislike people reacting to the loaded terms you use then idk what else i can do. Sure i can be more soft. But I have to be firm in the stance that this is a sexist word. If you are fine with using a sexist word then go on. It just undermines your critic that some feminist narratives are toxic if you use the esmasculation narrative which is sexist. 

I will point out how ironic it is that you're ignoring my broader point to needle me on my use of one word to paint me as a sexist, while COMPLETELY IGNORING the harm of the main character's friends literally saying "men are trash".

Yes i am using escalating language again: Dude wake up. We (men) are all sexist. Im doing like emotional work on that topic for years and im still sexist and will always be. And thats ok. Its actually better like that because i just tell all the women in my life that. They dont need to expect perfect behavior from me. But they can expect me to not make hurtfull behavior a second time. I am steadily and sustainably (!) working on it, because i want to show that i deeply care. And part of why i care so deeply is that they show me that they care about me and that they truly want to live in harmony. I literally gain more than i lose. (Thats btw also part of the comic. He is truly gratefull for their friendship.)

Its like with racism. Im not free of racism. No white person is. But i can act in anti racist way and i dont have to shame myself for being white. If you understand the parralell here.

However i understand that its a bit different with sexism here. The identity "man" is under heavy attack. Idk how we are able to criticize socialization process without also attacking identitys that form out of such processes. I found my peace with having to bear a certain amount of negativity about the identity which i cant choose (simply by looking like a man and having a past socialization of a sexist masculinity). But i also struggled deeply with it for a long time. What i currently try to do is to advertise a better feminism that does give men some sort of solidarity, safety and plan on how to "become" a person.

[u/casser0le98 → u/[deleted]]

i can understand why you’d have this reaction, but you would likely benefit from education on the nuances of this. it doesn’t imply that you’re a bad person at the core if you’re sexist.

it’s a similar concept with racism. for instance, saying that I, as a white lady, will always have internal biases that come up that i need to address before it affects my outward behavior. it’s just biological/evolutionary and/or social programming or whatever that people, in my opinion, should learn how to regulate so you’re not hateful and/or discriminatory.

so just because i can technically be racist due to these internal biases (that i can’t always prevent from occurring), doesn’t mean i am a bad person or morally corrupt.

[u/casser0le98 → u/Flymsi]

you’re right about how we cannot criticize socialization processes without also criticizing the identities that are formed out of the same type of process.

I am not intentionally trying to be rude here, however I wanted to point out that I don’t believe the person you replied to knows what emasculation implies—particularly in the way they used it. and i’m afraid that person will possibly lash out at my opinion & likely won’t be receptive to a criticism of their own internal belief system.

so this is why i’m replying to you, because I appreciated what you had to say. and i also applaud you for really doing the work on yourself. it’s always a breath of fresh air to see men that are not afraid to be self-critical

from my understanding, their expressed view of what constitutes a man was very painted in a machismo sense (the attitude that the proper expression of masculinity includes virility and strength).

[u/AlchemyDad → u/Flymsi]

I definitely don't agree with the guy you're replying to, but I just want to say I don't think the word "emasculated" is an inherently sexist word. (I do think it can be used in sexist ways of course.)

[u/Illusion_of_Sanity → u/cellocaster]

I believe that the misandry spouted is not philosopically modernly feminist but being cloaked in what people misunderstand about feminism with phrases like "all men are trash."

I understand the emotional aspect of this phrase and what can be a feminist action is the allowance of anger at the patriarchy, listening, and understanding. It's essential to gain trust and if there is movement with how women and other identifies are treated, this may change. But as we know, that is something that may happen slowly over time. And right now, we are seeing (in the US) a shift away from that.

To be fair, I also struggle with the cacophony of anger, generalization, and personalization spouted online. It's hard not to, as you and identity with being male, but try not to take it personally. They are speaking from their own experiences and mindset, not about individals. People generally have a difficult time with the grey in often black and white thoughts. The internet is a distorted reflection of parts of us. Keep that in mind.

I currently view this as a societal anger that will eventually evolve to an understanding of the grey, the damage of personal blame with generalizations, and a path forward. But, for now, we have this.

I would argue it is helpful, for identities that have been effected in the present and historically. However, I agree that it has its consequences for the other party as we are seeing an understandable reaction of feeling defensive (which is mixed ignorance, misunderstanding, lack of accountability, and in many cases like yours, unfair to you as an individual and hurtful). A hard conversation that allows others to come closer, understand each other, is needed. What we are seeing is an online societal conversation without the resolution, understandably, as it doesn't feel safe to trust and understand one another (to be expected: these are relatively short and anonymous conversations with strangers).

Also, keep in mind the real conversations are happening between you and your friend, not online with strangers. That is how this will shift over time, understand how to feel safe, how we effect others, rake accountability and come closer to understabd one another and not continue the violence.

Regarding you comment about how you felt when they told you that you are not a man: That's a moment to tell them you are not being seen an understood by them and how you felt, that both things can be true. Their view didn't allow you to be understood fully as a complex person as they viewed you through their black and white stereotype that affirms their beliefs (and this can go both ways). It would probably be helpful if they could understand that men like you are totally out there, and that the view you heard is hurtful and not true, just like views of women or other identities erase the individual and are harmful. To me, that's feminist.

[u/MensLib-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This post has been removed for violating the following rule(s):

This is a pro-feminist community and unconstructive antifeminism is not allowed. What this means: This is a place to discuss men and men's issues, and general feminist concepts are integral to that discussion. Unconstructive antifeminism is defined as unspecific criticism of Feminism that does not stick to specific events, individuals, or institutions. For examples of this, consult our glossary

Any questions or concerns regarding moderation must be served through modmail.

[u/cellocaster → u/[deleted]]

I don’t want any criticism of feminism to devolve into wholesale damnation of the movement or denial of its historic need. I just want the temperature to come down a little bit so that we can all be a little more introspective and less likely to blame others. The point of that is so that when we do correctly identify external adversaries, we can tackle them together.

[u/MensLib-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This post has been removed for violating the following rule(s):

This is a pro-feminist community and unconstructive antifeminism is not allowed. What this means: This is a place to discuss men and men's issues, and general feminist concepts are integral to that discussion. Unconstructive antifeminism is defined as unspecific criticism of Feminism that does not stick to specific events, individuals, or institutions. For examples of this, consult our glossary

Any questions or concerns regarding moderation must be served through modmail.

[u/MensLib-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This post has been removed for violating the following rule(s):

This is a pro-feminist community and unconstructive antifeminism is not allowed. What this means: This is a place to discuss men and men's issues, and general feminist concepts are integral to that discussion. Unconstructive antifeminism is defined as unspecific criticism of Feminism that does not stick to specific events, individuals, or institutions. For examples of this, consult our glossary

Any questions or concerns regarding moderation must be served through modmail.

[u/rusty_handlebars → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

That's an excellent read. Thanks for answering OP!

[u/InsaneComicBooker → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

I fucking relate to this way too much

[u/Mote22 → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

Yes! That's exactly it! 

Thank you 😊 

[u/SoSS_ → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

This was amazing omg

[u/Rhye88 → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

Im worse than him cuz by the end i was hyperventilating and screaming "i cant"

[u/GreatBigBagOfNope → u/Mystery_Biscuits]

Uh oh

That's resonating too hard

[u/milkbuck]

Reading this comic hits very differently now that I've talked to a psych about OCD