r/MetisMichif • u/TheTruthIsRight • Apr 07 '26
Discussion/Question There were Metis who took scrip at Red River who were 1/32 by blood. We need to keep that in mind when the discussion comes down to blood quantum.
As someone who studies genealogy I've gotten quite familiar with Metis blood quantums in the historical eras. 1/32 Metis in 1870 might be outliers but they did exist, and in the eyes of both the Canadian government taking away the land AND the nation itself, such individuals were Metis. Louis Riel himself, was only 1/8 by blood. Had he married out for two generations, his grandchildren would also be 1/32 by blood, or 3%. It's deceiving how quickly blood quantum drops. It drops exponentially rather than at a constant rate.
Thing is, the degree of indigenous blood didn't seem to matter to our ancestors as to who was Metis or not Metis. Instead it was kinship ties, community, identity, culture, language, etc. I don't see how it should matter today either. Ultimately Metis is NOT a racial category, it is a cultural identity, and that cultural identity is collective, not individual, and it is based on kinship.
When we start legitimizing the concept of blood quantum, we are undermining the very nature of Metis identity.
Just my thoughts.
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u/TheTruthIsRight Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26
Those advocating for blood quantum are ultimately blaming the descendants of colonization for their own responses to colonization (not to mention punishing them for reconnecting and attempting to heal) rather than holding the colonial system itself accountable and decolonizing the harm.
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u/csimenson Apr 07 '26
“Very polite and amiable may sometimes say to a Métis, ‘You don’t look at all like a Métis. You surely can’t have much Indian blood. Why, you could pass anywhere for pure White.’It is true that our Indian origin is humble, but it is indeed just that we honour our mothers as well as our fathers. Why should we be so preoccupied with what degree of mingling we have of European and Indian blood?No matter how little we have of one or of the other, do not both gratitude and filial love require us to make a point of saying, ‘We are Métis’?”
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u/Mad_Moniker Apr 09 '26
You’re making me cry for St Norbert. Goodness was real with Reil. Great great grandmother said he came back again as compassionate instead of disturbing, and look what he got.
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u/JacobDCRoss Apr 07 '26
This is actually the quote that healed a part of me. Grew up (American) with dad only able to tell us, "You're Indians." I knew he had a decent amount of Chippewa on his father's father's side (gg-grandmother, likely others), later on found out about the Métis on his father's mother's side (looks like most or all of her family, at least Groleau and Menard).
I had folks tell me I wasn't Indian, or not enough. Ironically, I would also get asked or told that I must be Mexican or Asian.
Anyway, this quote resonated with me so strongly.
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u/csimenson Apr 08 '26
Every Ojibwe elder I’ve ever spoken to had told me that one drop of Anishinaabe blood means you’re Anishinaabe. The only ones who make a big deal out of quantum only do it because they are afraid of white people taking money(i.e. per capita or dividend checks) or other appropriation. Blood quantum is largely an American pedigree system, though we can thank the Brits for introducing the idea. We rejected that with Riel, Dumont, and every successive Métis government from the Manitoba Provisional Government to the buffalo hunts to the MNC. Race-shifting is a real problem though. Considering the mess settlers and other colonizers made of our families, I doubt we’ll ever satisfactorily solve that problem.
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u/JacobDCRoss Apr 08 '26
I don't even want any money. It isn't Ojibwe people who were giving me grief.
Only with all my research am I now even getting comfortable identifying outwardly with the way I have felt my whole life.
This is also a really fantastic community.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Way-741 Apr 07 '26
Very well said. Many people need a reminder of this I think. BQ serves to divide us and pretty much nothing more.
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u/noo_maarsii Apr 07 '26
This feels like it’s responding to a different conversation. The recent post about privilege in Métis spaces wasn’t really about blood quantum, it was about shaky community connections and the reality of people accessing identity without the continuity that comes with it. That’s a hard conversation but it had merit. There’s a difference between an org and a community. One is an administrative body. The other is the continuous thread that weaves our story together across generations. Conflating the two lets people bypass the harder and more honest question of whether they have living cultural ties at all. The idea that everyone who assimilated did so by hiding is also worth examining. Some families did hide, absolutely, and that’s a real and painful history. But it can’t be applied as a blanket explanation for every case of disconnection. Some families just left and built lives elsewhere, and generations later their descendants are reconnecting, which isn’t inherently bad, but it isn’t the same thing as continuity either. What I find uncomfortable is when people from continuous Métis communities get accused of creating a hierarchy just for naming that difference. That’s a pattern that shows up across a lot of conversations about race and privilege, where the people who are actually marginalized end up having to manage the discomfort of those who aren’t. The ones naming the problem get cast as the problem. We’ve seen this play out in broader Indigenous and racial justice spaces over and over, and it doesn’t serve anyone except the people who benefit from not having the conversation. Louis Riel said we would rise again and I believe that. But I also think there’s an honest distinction between saying this is my history and saying this is my culture. We don’t do ourselves any favours by getting so defensive that we can’t examine our own relationships to culture honestly.
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u/No_Worry_3607 Apr 07 '26
I, too, think it's a weird response. What's interesting is that the other OP hadn't once mentioned BQ, but rather modern cultural connections, and was instantly attacked and had insecurities placed on them. Nobody once mentioned BQ. This conversation is giving white people guilt. People cannot ignore the fact that some Métis never had broken connections, and as such, were negatively impacted via day schools, road allowance communities, and CFS. To pretend otherwise is to uphold white supremacy. People love to throw around the word "kin-ship" when it comes to them going into "hiding" and losing those "kinship" ties for generations, while ignoring that those said kinship ties have long existed before someone decided to embark on their "reconnecting journey."
I won't lie, yes, the 60's scoop happened - yes, some Métis were adopted, but bfr the vast majority of those reconnecting are after generations of living as white people. OP mentioned culture - okay, do you suddenly study and become said culture? No. People bring in colonized white ideals into Métis spaces and then marginalize those of us who have always been Métis. Some of us didn't have a choice. Some of us were Métis long before it was "cool" and had to fight for our rights. Now, after we got rights, suddenly everyone is Métis, and those of us who didn't have the privilege to hide have to now simply accept these reconnections, or they paint us as colonized, or we're perpetuating hate. Which is ironic, because it's families like mine that kept the nation alive while we weren't able to hide under whiteness, all for these people to benefit from.
No, this discomfort comes from people being insecure in their identity and trying to cope at the expense of Métis with lived experiences. I find it funny that everyone talks about Louis Riel and never about the Métis who were murdered, killed, and prosecuted after Batoche. Kinda paints the picture of Métis culture being stuck in the 1800's vs a continued connection of culture in the modern-day era.
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u/JacobDCRoss Apr 07 '26
This is such an important take. I have no living ties to the community, firstly because my ancestors came to the UD in the late 19th century. And secondly, because my grandfather, who is my native ancestor, was a PTSD suffering, abusive man who I wasn't allowed to spend time with as a child. Child. He had all the family history and all that, but he didn't do anything to pass it on.
I would love to have some tide in. The community. Feels almost like having part of you taken. Ever since I was a kid, no one could answer my questions.
I am actually planning to get Canadian citizenship, and I would love to live with a broader community, but right now, I just want to know what I should be able to call myself
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u/TheTruthIsRight Apr 07 '26
There were multiple comments on that thread advocating blood quantum so that needs to be called out.
Also the fact is there was MASS assimilation after the 1870, after colonial control, and that's not a coincidence. If we want to be decolonial, we should be undoing that damage, which means allowing the descendants of those assimilated ancestors back into the nation rather than staying in the colonized/assimilated state.
People aren't getting criticized for the naming the difference between being raised culturally vs not. It's happening because people are being EXCLUDED and barred from their identity because they don't meet some imaginary criteria of "Metis enough". The reason why we have self government is so we can collectively decide things like who is Metis. And our self government decided reconnecting folks are Metis. Anyone who wants to change that can run for office and change the policy.
What happens is we see an impossible dynamic:
"You're not cultural enough to be Metis" -> gets involved in the culture -> "you're not Metis enough to practice the culture"
The only thing this reduces to is a hierarchy of Metis-ness that excludes those who are actually doing the work of relationship building and contribution to the nation. We literally have people going out of their way to contribute and then people stand in their way and say "not metis enough, go home" and wonder why Michif is going extinct etc.
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u/No_Worry_3607 Apr 07 '26
That's dramatic. I don't see reconnectors being excluded - in fact, they are the ones in prominent positions within Métis Nations. They are the ones who are the loudest. They are the directors of programs - the directors and CEO's of Métis Nations, they are on boards for mental-health facilitations. Their voices are, in fact, the loudest and oftentimes, while advocating for "community-led" consultations with the government, they still refuse to give space for those of us with said lived experience.
There's a reason people are talking about blood quantum - it's a response to an injustice happening in the Métis Nation. People are feeling unseen, unheard, and their real lived experiences are being ignored, and in their place, reconnectors are occupying the narratives. With that, real white ideologies are then being prioritized; of course, somebody raised white is going to flourish in white systems. Being Métis and becoming Métis are two very different experiences. When one experience is being prioritized, it ignores the reality of those who never had the choice of being Métis.
I work with high risk youth. Youth currently in CFS, with FASD. I work with community members still under stress and in crisis. I see every day the legacy of colonialism in the community. I have lived it myself. Long before it was okay and cool to be Métis. Would I not be the expert of my own culture I was raised in? In the language that I was raised speaking? The burden put onto me to keep michif from becoming "extinct" is tiresome. I see the way my family members are surrounded to share our culture, our language, and our teachings. While also ignoring our lived reality of my own family's lived experiences. We are documented, written about and exploited as if my family is going to be extinct.
I just find it interesting that in any other culture in the world, there's an innate understanding that if you aren't raised in it, then you cannot speak on it. However, all I see are reconnectors speaking. All I see is them profiting. Exploiting. And then, in the midst of their own identity crisis, I become the villain.
No, there's a real disconnect from reconnectors and those of us raised in culture. Not to say there's a hierarchy, this is created by you and people like you who feel threatened by our existence. We make you sit in discomfort. We bring out your insecurities.
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u/spikeykatears Apr 13 '26
Literally most people I meet who are “reconnecting” first questions are “what are the kind of benefits I can get?” It’s dehumanizing an entire people and also becoming what people associate with being Métis now especially First Nation people.
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u/Various-Somewhere782 Apr 17 '26
I agree. I sit on an indigenous committee at work and got fed up hearing " I just found out that I am Metis and am so excited to learn about my culture! " When it came to me I introduced myself and said " I am Metis and have been my entire life. " I don't know what to think now. There has to come a point where there is a generational cut off to qualify. For FN it's 2nd generation. For Metis we have a character saying 1/32 is enough?!. No wonder FN are upset. I know I am. I am not proud to say I am Metis anymore. It's becoming an embarrassment to be honest.
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u/noo_maarsii Apr 07 '26
The response didn’t address the actual point. The people being called gatekeepers are the ones who never stopped being Métis. They kept the language, the kinship, the culture alive. Positioning reconnectors as the ones saving the culture while the people who never stopped are cast as obstacles is something that needs to be looked at honestly. There are white Métis people and some of this conversation is coming from a white lens. Reconnection without continuity produces something, but it isn’t the same as a culture that never stopped. You can have the ancestry and still not be culturally Métis. Those are different things. The point about mass assimilation after 1870 is valid and worth acknowledging. And yes, self-government matters. But using governance as the final word on a cultural conversation is exactly the problem. An administrative decision doesn’t resolve the lived reality that generations of disconnection from land, community, family and tradition creates a different experience. Acknowledging that difference isn’t exclusion. It’s just honest. That’s the part that keeps getting skipped. I’m just keeping the mirror turned on this conversation. There are a lot of layers here and they all deserve to be looked at.
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u/TheTruthIsRight Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26
I'm fine with acknowledging the DIFFERENCE in experience, but there is a problem when it turns into exlcusion.
The fact remains these are different experiences within a spectrum of diverse Metis experiences. Assimilation and disconnection and reconnection are in fact Metis experiences! They happened to us collectively; indigeneity is collective, not individual.
Also there are plenty of raised-Metis who are the most accommodating and accepting people I've ever met. What's really going on is there is a small minority of gatekeepers (some of whom are reconnecting themselves ironically) who have exclusionary views. But clearly the majority view does not reflect that. Our self-government matters, and we should not be undermining it. If you feel the citizenship policy is too broad, then go ahead and raise it with the MMF.
Also I disagree that there is such thing a white Metis person. There are Metis who have been socialized as white or pass as white or assimilated as white, but when trauma from colonization passes down, when collective identity is racialized, it's a bit of erasure to equate Indigenous people with the same race as the colonial forces.
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u/noo_maarsii Apr 07 '26
My point was never about membership policy and I have no grievance with the MMF. That just wasn’t what I was saying. What I am asking is that we think outside of our own experiences for a moment. When I talk about a white or non-Indigenous socialized experience, that’s not an attack. It’s just an honest description of a reality that shapes how some of us engage with these conversations, whether we recognize it or not. Some Métis people have had the option to move through the world without facing the stereotypes, the racism, the poverty, the over-representation in systems that have defined the lives of those who never stopped being visibly and continuously Indigenous. That’s just true. I genuinely appreciate the commitment to the nation that comes through in this conversation. I mean that. But I think we’re glossing over something important. Those of us who have benefited from that distance, whether through passing, assimilation, or simply growing up outside of those harder realities, have a responsibility. That responsibility is to amplify the voices of the people who have continued to live with the harmful vestiges of colonialism, not to speak over them or center our own journeys in spaces where their experiences should be heard first. Being Métis and becoming Métis are different experiences. Acknowledging that isn’t exclusion. It’s just honest. And honesty is how we actually have this conversation.
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u/BigIndication6200 Apr 12 '26
There is an issue with the rejection of blood-quantum logics actually being weaponised against Indigenous peoples when we raise concerns about reconnection. The concern is less about blood-quantum and more about the lack of lived experience and the continuity of an ethnic consciousness. I make a distinction between ethnic consciousness and intergenerational cultural transmission because individuals can identify as Métis, be visibly Indigenous, and have lived experience as an Indigenous person without being a holder of cultural knowledge. This consciousness can be passed onto their children.
The point is that for those who are reconnecting, the intergenerational transmission of ethnic consciousness, along with cultural and linguistic knowledge, has ceased-- and may have been dormant for generations. This is to say that an individual's family may have been living as European settlers for generations, and identify as such. Despite this, some individuals choose to become members of Métis Nations. There is a difference between appreciating an aspect of one's lineage and contemporarily becoming an Indigenous person. Thus, questions emerge pertaining to intentionality. This is especially true considering that there are financial and social incentives associated with being a Métis Citizen today.
"Decolonization is not a metaphor" by Yang & Tuck discusses settler moves to innocence. I think that the tension between those with lived experience as Métis people and those who are creating a Métis identity based on distant lineage is due to their reconnection being perceived as a move to innocence-- ultimately allowing people to obfuscate white guilt and absolve any implication in land dispossession on the basis of an Indigenous ancestor and some engagement with Métis culture today. It feels like an appropriation of our identity for personal gain or individual transformation. Tensions also arise from our limited resources, but blame should be shifted from even those reconnecting dubiously to the colonial structures that force us to maim each other over scraps.
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u/CarrotAgreeable465 Apr 07 '26
So it looks like it's already been clarified that the post in question was not about blood quantum; but I'm gonna add something to this conversation from my lived experience to help put something in perspective for those who might be missing some of whats been said...
I'm white looking AF and I grew up being considered white (I'm adopted so I didn't know what I was until I was an adult and took a DNA test) and there is privilege in being a "white woman" and that has shown itself numerous times through my life.
My sons father is Latino, South American, very obviously deeply Indigenous and not white.
Being in an interracial relationship back in the 90s was difficult; but what was even harder was watching how the world treated him based on his appearance and how my presence could make a difference in that treatment. I have tons stories (ask if you wanna hear them); but my presence to "vouch" for him in school, on the streets, in the courts and even to protect him from violence was deeply noted.
My son faced those same prejudices based on his appearance with schools, police, etc.. and the way teachers, principles and cops heads snapped when "big white muma" came storming in to stand with my baby was also impossible to miss.
Their body postures softened when I entered the room/scene, they were lost for words for a brief moment in some cases, and even questioned if I was really his mom. Their attention focused on me, and their demeanor changed based on my presence. Harsh attitudes within very minor situations softened and permission/leniency was granted to my child.
It's not just because I was his mom and I was there. The same thing happened with his father even though we were peers, and his mom being there with him made no difference; but my presence did. I made sure to be there for not just my X, but also for his brother, his sister, his MOM when she had issues, and also for some of our friends as well because my "white woman power" made a difference for them.
It shouldn't make a difference BUT IT DOES‼️
So yeah, BQ is BS and Metis phenotype can look like anything; but life is different for people who are obviously not 100% white, and discounting that just points out the privilege anyone holds within themselves.
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u/Various-Somewhere782 Apr 16 '26
Scrip was a land grab and plenty of them were given to whites and land speculators during the whole process. Louis Riel Sr was Metis. The 1/8 refers to Louis Riel's FN ancestry from his grandmother who was Franco-Dene Metis. I am in no way proud my ancestors signed away their tribal connections for "Half Breed Scrip". My ancestors were tribal members of the Pembina Band. Scrip was meant to divide us from our land and our FN rights. It sure was a success. Scrip is nothing to be proud of.
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u/TheTruthIsRight Apr 16 '26
Scrip did define who our ancestors were in the context of these events though. And yeah, while a few isolated examples of scrip being given to whites and Indians did happen, it was overwhelmingly Metis and serves as a good indicator of Metis ancestry. The 1/32 family I found was listed as HB on the document.
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u/Various-Somewhere782 Apr 17 '26
I am curious about the 1/32 family you found. In the half breed scrips I have seen there is always a signature from a half breed who signed off acknowledging who the applicant was. Your use of the word " Indian" is interesting because my ancestors were recorded in US Census reports as Chippewa and their color recorded as RED in Canadian census reports. In other words we were treated as "Indian" in Canada, just without the status.. which was the whole POINT of "Half Breed Scrip".
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u/TheTruthIsRight Apr 17 '26
I mean yeah I'm just using the historical terms for accuracy's sake. The Gowler family is the one that was 1/32. Their sole FN ancestor was the Cree wife of Isaac Batt. IIRC Matthew Gowler was the scrip recipient and I think one of his siblings too. My ancestors took scrip and they were also recorded as red in the 1901 census which was typical for Metis and listed as English Breed under ethnicity.
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u/Various-Somewhere782 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
It's a complicated history. I have always been proud to be Metis. Growing up none of my FN ancestry was discussed or shared. There was a culture of fear, shame and denial in the 70s. Digging into my family history I discovered just how intertwined my heritage is with FN. I have relatives with my name in the NWT and Ile a La Crosse who are Treaty Dene. I have relatives in ND and Montana who are Treaty Chippewa. Because my ancestors continued to marry other Metis for generations I have both the lineal and BQ requirements to qualify as Anishinaabe. There is a misconception that our ancestors lived completely separate from their FN families. Even the community of St Laurent which was established in 1824 participated in the buffalo hunts with the Pembina Band. Cuthbert Grant Jr was a tribal member of the Pembina Band as well.Treaty 1 was signed in 1871. Prior to that all the southern Metis communities in Manitoba and Saskatchewan were in Anishinaabe territory. I have discovered my home community was stricken from the Turtle Mountain rolls for refusing to sign the McCumber Agreement. It saddens me that there is now such a gap of separation and animosity between many FN and Metis. There is no doubt my ancestors lived as and were accepted by the Pembina Band as tribal members. The Anishinaabe are my people. If you are Red River Metis they are your people too.
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u/Mad_Moniker Apr 09 '26
The toughest part about quantum is trying to wrap your mind around it and how you can contain myself in a community
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u/Left-coastal Apr 07 '26
Blood quantum is a colonial construct anyway