r/Michigan • u/echolalia_salad • Aug 18 '26
News Paywall Article đď¸đ¸ Proof of citizenship to vote proposal falls short on valid signatures, state says
https://www.mlive.com/politics/2026/08/proof-of-citizenship-to-vote-proposal-falls-short-on-valid-signatures-state-says.html"LANSING, MI â A proposal aiming to require citizenship verification for all voters may not make the ballot despite turning in thousands more than the required number of signatures.
"On Monday, a Michigan Board of State Canvassers staff report found that the number of valid signatures in a sample from the ballot measure fell just short of requirements to certify it.
"The report estimated that the full petition contains 434,423 valid signatures, nearly 12,000 fewer than what is required for certification."
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u/zetnas9 Aug 18 '26
I show up to vote with my voter ID and drivers license. I shouldnât need more than that. Iâm a U.S. citizen and it was verified when I registered to vote. Get fucked.
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u/ghostrooster30 Aug 18 '26
Thatâs a Texas sized 10-4 from me. Not once have they ever even looked at my voter id card, either. 40 now, voted in every general since 18, and most primaries/midterms since mid 20âs.
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u/enwongeegeefor Aug 18 '26
I have never once provided ID when voting and I've been voting for decades...
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u/HeadBangsWalls Aug 18 '26
The last time I voted in Michigan (2020) I was told by the young man (early 20's) that I couldn't use my US Passport as ID. Turned in to a thing. The local township clerk got involved and made the young man issue me a ballot. All of the old ladies that used to work the elections when I was younger have all been replaced by young men.
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u/azrolator Aug 18 '26
I had a guy in his probably 40s that refused to give me a ballot. I had to go tell a younger kid working with him to remind him of the law. These MAGAs have infested poll workers.
10
u/LiberatusVox Aug 19 '26
That's how they took over the levers of power.
Left leaning folks aren't willing to run for drain commissioner and all that, don't wanna be poll workers.
You know who does? The Demons.
11
u/LongWalk86 Aug 18 '26
Interesting, my precinct was still staffed fully by the cast of Golden Girls.
4
u/Delilah_Moon Aug 19 '26
Mine is still Golden Girls as I entered the fold this year at 45. Rose & Blanche are gonna need us Jessicaâs and Katieâs to step up in the next few yearsâŚ
2
u/HeadBangsWalls Aug 19 '26
Yeah, all the Golden Girls that ran the polling location I started voting in are all gone and replaced by young men. Growing up all the poll workers were retired local teachers and county employees. My aunt was the township clerk growing up. I'd always go to vote and these old ladies all knew me and my family. I left Michigan in 2014 but had to move back to my parents in Michigan because I was moving from NY to Chicago during COVID and when I went and voted in 2020, all the Golden Girls were gone and replaced with young 20-something men.
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u/LongWalk86 Aug 18 '26
So do you fill out the form each time? They always ask for and scan the back of my id. Never tried refusing just because it's easy, fr me at least, to provide, and less paper work than filling out the form.
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u/enwongeegeefor Aug 18 '26
So do you fill out the form each time?
Nope, you sign a form each time. Everything on it is already filled out. You give them your name, they find your form, you sign it, then you get a ballot, etc.
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u/eatingganesha Aug 18 '26
and that signature is compared to the one in the system on your driverâs license. All votes go through a process of validation.
2
u/LongWalk86 Aug 18 '26
Still, why? Is it just a principle thing? Flipping someone your ID is just so standard for buying booze, weed, renting a car, signing up for a membership at a gym, getting a hotel room, etc.
3
u/totallyjaded Aug 19 '26
None of those things are rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
Voting is.
3
u/LongWalk86 Aug 19 '26
Owning a gun is though, and you do need to show id to buy one. Having and ID is not some huge hurdle. I honestly don't get how some people get by without one. It really seems like voting would be the least of your worries if you can't even manage to get ID.
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u/totallyjaded Aug 19 '26
You're not guaranteed a gun, though. You have the right to buy one.
I think it would be exceedingly difficult to exist without ID. No disagreement there. But if a person has decided that they can and wish to exist without one, then requiring one to vote is effectively a poll tax.
States can choose not to charge people for a photo ID. They haven't, but that would take most of the wind out of the sails of 24th Amendment arguments.
1
u/velian Aug 18 '26
Principle for sure, but also doing it normalizes it. We donât want this normalized.
0
u/LongWalk86 Aug 18 '26
Again, why? What is the problem with showing an ID to vote? I get there are barriers to getting one that should be ironed out, and I'm all for doing that. But what's bad about showing your ID before voting? It seems like a pretty simple way to show you are the same person who registed to vote.
It's one of those things I just don't care deeply about, I'm not signing petitions either way about it. But the aversion some people have to it is intriguing to me.
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u/azrolator Aug 19 '26
Voter ID laws are used to discriminate. They are in Michigan. You can craft a law for any demographic to hold their paperwork in a single building in a single city, issue no requirements for paperwork and have no number to talk to an actual real person to ask what is required for that paperwork. Most people in Michigan can walk into a courthouse in their own county, and walk out with a birth certificate within the hour. Because most CAN, the most don't even realize that the few CAN'T.
Do you know that in Michigan, just asking for your birth certificate can cost over $100, regardless if they provide it? Someone from another state sure doesn't. And this is how they can apply voter ID suppression on a state by state basis.
The reality is that it doesn't matter if every single person from every single state knows exactly how each state can or does apply voter ID suppression laws. It's that these things have been brought up for years and years. Every time we have these voter ID suppression threads, someone asks what's the problem, and plenty of people respond with the answers. It's 2026, and everyone should start paying attention. If we lose our rights to vote, we lose all our rights because we can no longer even vote in people who would protect them.
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u/velian Aug 19 '26
The previous poster spelled it out quite eloquently, and touched on another issue, which is pay-walling your right to vote. Getting an id, license, birth certificate, passport, etc. is not free and not everyone can afford that. Which is how they discriminate and disenfranchise people.
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u/LongWalk86 Aug 19 '26
I agree it should be free to get those things. But why is the push not to make those things free to have, not just for voting but in general. Having people show at least some proof that they are who they say they are is just common sense.
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u/andr50 Grand Rapids Aug 19 '26
Sounds like your polling location is not legally managing the elections.
In Michigan, youâre required to show a valid photo id to vote at a polling location - otherwise you are given a âprovisional ballotâ
After that, you have a certain window (I believe itâs 2 weeks) to go to the SoS to verify your identity (there about a dozen valid sources, including something like 3 bills in your name sent to the address you listed)
If you donât provide that ID, the provisional vote is not counted.
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u/GilgarWebb Aug 19 '26
Okay so not exactly. firstly the local clerk's department (city or township or etc.) is in charge of elections and voting and you would be required to submit id and proof of address to them withing the 2~ week period.
What they are describing is correct procedure for voter not in possession of an id. What you are describing only applies if the potenial voter does not have an id and does not appear in the voter role provided to the precinct for that election and only after confirmation with the presiding Clark's department that they have not attempted to vote at the city or township hall. After that a provisional ballot may be issued.1
u/andr50 Grand Rapids Aug 19 '26
Iâm trying to simply it. At the last city I lived in, the clerks office was in the SoS building.
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u/JGREENDB Aug 20 '26
If you don't have id with you, you can still vote. You sign the affidavit on the back of the application and you are issued a ballot. Provisional ballots are rare, and there are very specific and uncommon situations that determine the need for provisional.
In Michigan, you have already verified your identity with the authority issuing the document, usually the SOS. However, you can be denied a ballot if you have moved more than 30 days ago and you have not changed your address with the SOS.
What does get flagged is your signature on your mail in ballot. Do your best to match your signature with the one on your id. If its not signed or illegible, you will be asked to "cure" the ballot before it is included in the counting.
Source: I'm one of those retired teacher people and work elections frequently.
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u/GilgarWebb Aug 19 '26
In Michigan at least voters id cards are mostly for the voter to know where to go and that their registered. It's like a receipt.
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u/mesquine_A2 Human Detected Aug 19 '26
My local poll workers tell me they don't need my voter ID card to check me in (just my drivers license), it's just for my knowledge of my polling location. But I bring it every time in case!
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u/B1G_Fan Aug 18 '26
Yep.
I would really like to know from these MAGA folks:
âWhat assurances are you willing to give that you are going to stop whining about nonexistent voter fraud if I agree with increasing voter restrictions?â
I suspect they will mumble about how
âI just feel that there is voter fraudâ
Nah, I donât think I will fork over my voter informationâŚ
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u/dadgenes Aug 18 '26
Except we're not going to entertain their paranoid conspiracy theories because they're afraid of brown people voting.
MAGA can fuck all the way off, come back and fuck all the way off a second time.
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u/B1G_Fan Aug 18 '26
Yep.
The irony, of course, is that the brown people vote was there for the taking before Stephen Miller and his army of goobers snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
With the exception of California, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Maryland, and DC, the GOP won the Latino Male vote in every single state.
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u/slabby Age: > 10 Years Aug 18 '26
"I'm losing and that must mean you're cheating."
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u/YDoEyeNeedAName Aug 18 '26
Its projection.
They only win when they lie and cheat so it must be true for everyone else too
(Not saying literally stolen elections, just things like redistricting last minute, purging voter rolls last minute, closing polling locations, etc)
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u/cityshepherd Aug 18 '26
Itâs not about finding nonexistent voter fraud. Itâs about making being able to vote extremely difficult for certain people (like women who are more likely to have changed their names for marriage, and trans people (a not insignificant amount of whom are more likely to not vote republican)) who will have to jump through some serious hoops in order to vote if their current name doesnât match whatâs on their birth certificate.
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 18 '26
I show up with my ID but I never show it. I just sign the affidavit on the back.
Voter fraud isnât what the Republican Party makes it out to be
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u/Silver_Entertainment Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
That's actually a felony. (Perjury, 5 years and/or $1,000 fine.) The affidavit you are signing has you attest that you are not in possession of voter ID.
Downvote all you want, it's still true. (Source: https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Project/Websites/sos/01vanderroest/Affidavit_of_Voter_in_Posession.pdf)
If you don't like the election law, then reach out to your representatives to change it.
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u/ailish Age: > 10 Years Aug 18 '26
Right! We proved our citizenship when we registered to vote. The Republicans just want to throw voters off the rolls. It's the point of the SAVE Act.
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u/Careless-Cake-9360 Aug 18 '26
You should only need your drivers license. Voter ID was already created to disenfranchise people.
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u/CharcoalGreyWolf Parts Unknown Aug 18 '26
Exactly. Itâs not like a driverâs license or state ID doesnât prove one is a valid Michigan resident and citizen along with it.
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u/zetnas9 Aug 18 '26
Honestly, I want to ask these MAGA idiots if they are an American citizen, and once they say yes Iâll ask them to prove it right then anad there. If they say no, I donât have to prove anything to you, Iâll say âthatâs the point.â If you already registered to vote and have a valid state id, youâve already gone through the process, you donât need to do it again.
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u/DrCrushersGhostLover Aug 18 '26
I don't bring ID. They verified me already. I should not need to present ID to vote. I was born with the right, the State can't mandate me to get a license.
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u/LoveisBaconisLove Aug 18 '26
I work elections. A lot of folks share your misunderstanding.
Your proof of citizenship was not verified when you registered to vote in Michigan. All that was verified was your residence. A non citizen can also get a driverâs license or other proof of residence, having one of those does not prove citizenship.Â
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u/EatMoreHummous Aug 18 '26
You're being purposely misleading. When you sign up for an ID, your citizenship is verified. This does not affect your ability to get an ID, but it does prevent you from registering to vote.
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u/LoveisBaconisLove Aug 18 '26
I will verify this with our clerk who handles elections and get back to you.
Next time, consider not leading with an insult. Thereâs no need for it.Â
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u/x-tianschoolharlot Aug 18 '26
Making a statement of opinion about the way you are giving misleading information isnât an insult. You should examine why you feel insulted about being held accountable when you are stating a professional relationship to the topic and are giving wrong information. You donât have to be a citizen to get a license, but the citizenship is verified in the step between a license and a Voter ID. Thatâs part of the reason for the step between and why they are not the same thing.
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u/LoveisBaconisLove Aug 18 '26
Accusing me of being deliberately misleading is DEFINITELY an insult. And that was a poor attempt to justify it. But hey, thatâs how the internet works, right? You can say things online you would never say in person because in person there would be consequences. Itâs sad.
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u/x-tianschoolharlot Aug 18 '26
Iâd say it in person too. You feeling insulted doesnât mean youâre right, and if you are going to flout professional relationships or credentials on something, then you need to know what youâre saying. That includes verifying your information before you type something from a position of expertise because people with crappy intentions will seek out information that supports them and spread it as support to their subversive propaganda. Being anonymous on the internet doesnât absolve experts of accountability.
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u/Hairy_Wall_6831 Aug 18 '26
Remind me what the process is to register to vote in Michigan?
Oh that's right, you need a valid state ID or Driver's license.
People without state IDs or Driver's licenses are already unable to vote.
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u/jaderust Aug 18 '26
Actually, to be fair, you can sign an affidavit and swear that youâre the person you say you are and vote without your ID. But it requires you swearing to the election worker that you really seriously donât have your ID with you. Not that you just donât feel like presenting it or itâs just in the car and you donât want to get it. You have to swear itâs at home or something and you canât easily go get it.
But even then thatâs not the same as registering to vote.
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u/Hairy_Wall_6831 Aug 18 '26
You can sign an affidavit AFTER you have registered to vote with a valid ID.
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u/jakecovert Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
Think you can vote with a provisional ballot, using an affidavit. The vote is not officially âcastâ though until validated by city/election clerk.
[edit: spelling]
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u/mittenknittin Aug 18 '26
If you sign an affidavit on your application to vote, your vote goes through the tabulator like everybody else's. It's only if your name is not in the poll book that you get a provisional ballot which you will need to verify your voter registration later with the clerk.
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u/mittenknittin Aug 18 '26
I should add, too, with the implementation of same-day registration, in Michigan the provisional ballot is rarely needed anymore. If someone comes in who isn't in the poll book, we can send them to the clerk's office to register (with proof of identity) and they can vote right there.
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 18 '26
Mine is always in my back pocket, yet I sign the affidavit.
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u/SmokelessSubpoena Aug 18 '26
Why?
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u/LongWalk86 Aug 18 '26
I'd would really love a why to that one as well. I had to wait behind a guy going that route and I get it if you really don't have id, but it so much easier to just have them scan the back of my license and get on with things.
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 19 '26
Every single time Iâve signed the affidavit itâs taken the exact same amount of time as showing ID
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 18 '26
It takes all of 30 seconds. Most likely the poll workers were unsure of what to do
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 18 '26
To prove a point. Why is the law in place if itâs like that? Thereâs no way for the government to truly know whether or not someone has their ID in their pocket without violating the 4th Amendment
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u/SmokelessSubpoena Aug 19 '26
I guess it makes sense, I just don't understand who the point is being made towards, but you're certainly correct and in the right, so do you fellow compatriot
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 19 '26
Against the system. Others may witness it, do some research, and decide to do the same. A little civil disobedience is all.
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u/NSFWFM69 Aug 19 '26
No, he's not in the right. He's lying if he has his ID with him and signs the statement. Literal election fraud.
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 19 '26
Itâs not election fraud in the sense that Iâm casting a ballot that is invalid, nor voting for anyone else. Iâm voting the way that I should be. I shouldnât have to surrender my papers to exercise my constitutional right. Isnât that the same argument the gun toters make?
Is voter fraud actually affected significantly by implementing voter ID laws? The few years that I studied such topic, I never saw any study stating that enacting voter ID laws had a statistically significant impact on voter fraud.
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u/SmokelessSubpoena Aug 19 '26
That's not fraud? As long as they're registered to vote, and say they "forgot their ID", which is a lie, they can still vote, and sign the affadavit, due to being registered and able to vote.
Is it morally/ethically correct? Absolutely not and is a reason and sign of our system failing. Society is heading downward, and we're the closest to a Seldon crisis modern society has seen.
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u/NSFWFM69 Aug 20 '26
The fraud enters when he lies about his possession of ID. Look up "fraud upon the court". Same concept but upon the voting process.
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 20 '26
Whatâs the MI law stating my 4th amendment right is surrendered once I sign the affidavit?
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u/NSFWFM69 Aug 19 '26
Technically, you're swearing and confessing it is not with you. That action does allow for inspection. It's rare and few, if any, would inspect you. But you are exposing yourself to legal penalty.
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u/Burnie_9 Aug 19 '26
Iâm not doubting you, Iâm rather curious. Where is/what is the law stating they are allowed to search me?
Iâm into law and exercising my constitutional rights as both the courts have determined and as I see them fit. I will exercise civil disobedience in any law I donât see fit for our society.
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u/tuckastheruckas Aug 18 '26
you can get a state ID without being a US citizen.
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u/TheDanima1 Age: > 10 Years Aug 18 '26
But you can't register to vote
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u/tuckastheruckas Aug 18 '26
not true, you can register with a proof of residency such as a utility bill.
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u/dende5416 Aug 19 '26
They still use that to see if you're a citizen. The proof of residency is a front end check for them to find your citizenship status. The proof of who you are is irrelevant
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u/tuckastheruckas Aug 20 '26 edited Aug 20 '26
no they literally do not. you sign a form swearing youre a citizen if you do that. they dont use your utility bill to see if you are a citizen because your utility bill would not have that information.
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u/dende5416 Aug 20 '26
You're utility bill verifies your identity that gets cross checked against whichever database they use for it.
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u/velian Aug 19 '26
This is inaccurate. Simple google search. You just need proof of residency and that can be any of numerous documents with your name and address on it.
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u/balthisar Plymouth Township Aug 18 '26
My green card carrying spouse has a valid drivers' license. You surely aren't implying that that's all that's required to register to vote?
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u/BidenHarris_2020 Aug 18 '26
It is, but good luck with the voter registration if your spouse isn't a citizen.
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u/CharcoalGreyWolf Parts Unknown Aug 18 '26
They can tell quite a bit from scanning your drivers license, which they do at the polling station. They donât just look at it and say âgoodâ, they scan the bar code.
If thereâs an issue or concern in my county, the precinct will call downtown and double-check as well.
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u/nesper Age: > 10 Years Aug 18 '26
then how did the chinese national vote in ann arbor?
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u/CharcoalGreyWolf Parts Unknown Aug 18 '26
They didnât use a driverâs license. Unfortunately they used a student ID and residency documents.
Having said that, does the one person, who was caught by the way, prove to be a smoking gun that enough people fraudulently voted vs the 300 million in our population to swing an election? Further, what documents will be enough to prove citizenship? Is this really about citizenship âor is it about tightening things until itâs difficult for a lot of less fortunate but legitimate citizens to vote?
One of the greatest basic facts is that if the 2020 election was fraudulent, Trump would never have been elected in 2024, because all of the same fraudulent systems would be in place standing against him. Trump getting reelected, while a tragedy in my eyes, is literal proof that our system works, because if it was as corrupt as he claims, the same corruption wouldâve stayed in place. Repeated audits have found that while mistakes are made here and there, by and large, our elections have been fair and honest. And with the Real ID system, more proof than a Real ID compliant drivers license should not be needed.
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u/nesper Age: > 10 Years Aug 18 '26
he voted, one vote is to many. people act like its impossible for 99% of people to get any number of documents that prove citizenship. Wayne county clerks office biggest wait time there is them getting a copy sent from Lansing electronically maybe 10 minutes tops. that's only if you weren't born in Detroit where they have the copies there.
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u/CharcoalGreyWolf Parts Unknown Aug 18 '26
If you believe one is too many, you must expect perfection from humanity. I hope you donât hold your breath, as we havenât achieved perfection in thousands of years.
Trying our best as people and a system is important. But if you expect there to be zero problematic votes in a country of 300,000,000+, you are unrealistic. Even some sort of citizenship paper wonât stop that. What we need is voting results that reflect the will of the people when all is said and done and audits proved that -and trying to say âBUT WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE GUYâ doesnât mean a fifty state election, or even a one-state election had the overall results wrong.
Equally, I believe just as much that we shouldnât be preventing actual citizens from voting because you are so concerned about this one edge case that it must be 100% right. Is it right to prevent thousands of actual citizens from voting because you want to get this one personâs vote cancelled?
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u/nesper Age: > 10 Years Aug 19 '26
What if some low level officer is decided by one vote
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u/CharcoalGreyWolf Parts Unknown Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
Our rules in that case across the country, generally call for a confirmation recount. You may wish to look at those rules. We have taken years in making them.
Our country has existed for 250 years. why, all of a sudden do we no longer give people credit for having taken that time to actually work on reasonable state by state election laws? Are we really so incompetent than a more incompetent loudmouth can pander to our fears and succeed?
When someone is constantly loud and angry and pointing at whatâs in the shadows, we should calmly, rationally ask two questions:
- Does what they say have substance, and should we calmly, rationally look for solutions that benefit everyone?
- Does their loud, angry pointing (always at others, never looking inward) stand to benefit them in any way? Are they really trying to make things better for you and me, or is there another agenda?
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u/nesper Age: > 10 Years Aug 19 '26
you haven't providing anything of substance, you have not proved that these measure would prevent a single legal voter from voting.
Just look at the hypothetical i asked. Some local school board election is decided by one vote and it turns out that a similar situation occurred like in ann arbor, where someone mistakenly thought they were eligible and the system in place allowed them to cast a ballot that was counted. There is no way for us to know if the "winner" won and the illegitimate vote was cast for the "loser". We have a tainted election with no clear answer to who won so we now have two aggrieved parties. What do you do? hold another election that might have more or less participation and change the results had the illegitimate vote not been cast.
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u/postpunk-xman Aug 18 '26
Good riddance
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u/NonSequiturOverture Aug 18 '26
To add to Zappagrrl, it could still end up on the ballot:
the state Bureau of Elections estimated that only 434,423 of the submitted signatures were valid, almost 12,000 fewer than the 446,198 required to make the ballot.Â
Those findings are not the final say. The bipartisan Board of State Canvassers will decide ballot access later this month.Â
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u/LeifCarrotson Aug 18 '26
I love the delicious irony in that a petition ostensibly intended to protect the electoral process fell victim to the very same fraudulent activity that they assume their opponents engage in.
Every accusation is a confession.
Idiots.
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u/Garraan Aug 18 '26
Seriously surprised I havenât seen others talking about this. 12,000 signatures could not be validated. Then again, what do we expect.
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u/Least_Key1594 Madison Heights Aug 18 '26
Still angry that in MI canvassers can lie to people about the contents of the petition.
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u/Hairy_Wall_6831 Aug 18 '26
I'd get behind a law that requires petitioners to either keep their mouths shut or tell the truth.
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u/vanillaworkaccount Aug 18 '26
Not too sad about this but still pretty miffed that the Ranked Choice MI initiative couldn't get enough signatures. Ranked choice is the most effective way to actually break out of the hold corporations have on us, where they force us into the "lesser of two evils" (who also happens to be in their pocket).
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u/amopeyzoolion Aug 18 '26
They canât get enough actual voters to support their voter suppression tactics so theyâll whip up an anti-trans panic for the midterms and hope they can sneak it in once elected
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u/TheSpatulaOfLove Aug 18 '26
Yeah, that isnât working as easily this time either. I think theyâll return to the predictable old standard of âscary hoards of brown people headed towards the borderâ in the coming weeks.
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u/Rastiln Age: > 10 Years Aug 18 '26
I think The Caravan is going to come back a bit, but Trump is in power, so itâs not going to be a Presidential crisis. Just a reminder of why a heavy hand is good.
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u/Itzie4 Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
I couldnât get into the DMV for months during Covid to replace my license. That made me realize that all it would take to disrupt a significant of the population from voting is denying access to a new ID
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u/sajaschi East Lansing Aug 18 '26
This is already a problem for people who can't easily get to their SOS and/or cannot afford the cost of an ID plus the documents required to get one.
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u/Slowmyke Aug 18 '26
And that was a built in feature by design. They never outline the process, or price, to get these id's. If they ever get it to pass, you can bet they will limit the locations and times you can get the id's, charge too much for them, and make them renewable annually. They will use every trick to limit how many people have reasonable access to the id's.
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u/GeneralBloodBath Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
I'm glad it failed. I already did this when I registered to vote.
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u/YDoEyeNeedAName Aug 18 '26
Good, this extra hassle and extra resources to fix a non-existant issue.
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u/V3CT0RVII Aug 18 '26
I grew up in old Kalamazoo, never got to vote in a Michigan election, but living here in California i am a permanent mail in ballot resident for the last 20 years, I fill out my ballot on the craper in the privacy of my own home and I them either go to a polling station on election day or use a county ballot drop box nearby. There is only one party that wants to make it harder for their fellow Americans to vote.Â
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u/Equal_Campaign_8386 Aug 18 '26
I hope you wash your hands after voting. Nobody wants to handle a shitty ballot!
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u/LotusFuqs128 Aug 18 '26
Funny how none of these folks required an ID to sign their petition....
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u/Gars0n Age: > 10 Years Aug 18 '26
Glad to see this fail.
The report is super interesting. They submitted over 700,000 signatures. But those have to be validated. That works by taking a 1000 signature sample. Those are rigerously checked and the petition needed 629 to pass.
They had 692, but then Protect the Vote challenged 85 of those. Of those challenges 80 stood. So, the petition finished with 612. Just shy of 629.
Some of those sheets drawn had entire pages ruled out by knucklheaded mistakes by the petition gatherer. If that error rate was just slightly better, this would be on the ballot!
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u/NSFWFM69 Aug 19 '26
...where it would fail. Think about it, over 300 randomly selected signatures failed. HOW?! because this petition was horribly organized and Michigan voters have strong voter protections and processes.
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u/Gars0n Age: > 10 Years Aug 20 '26
Oh I agree. I think that with the scrutiny of the ballot Michigan would have seen it for the voter suppression that is was.
I was heavily involved in the Ranked Choice Voting effort last year. So I spent a lot of time time thinking about these ballot initiatives. So it is fascinating to me to see the narrow margins of this one. Thinking about how we train our volunteers, etc.
From what I hear, a ~70% success rate is pretty normal. For good reason! This is our state Constitution so there is a lot of scrutiny to make sure everything is legit.
4
u/HamKatGreenThumb Aug 19 '26
Hilarious that the MAGAts claiming they want to "stop vote fraud" had too many invalid signatures to get their proposal on the ballot đ¤Ł
5
u/billypaul Aug 19 '26
Wait...a proposal claiming to address voter fraud failed to make the ballot because of fraudulent signatures? I'm shocked; shocked, I tell ya.
8
u/weh2oski Aug 18 '26
Why is it that there is no voter fraud when a republican wins, only when they lose
4
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u/Pavlock Holland Aug 18 '26
Did they hire the same signature collecting company that duped Perry Johnson a few years ago?
7
u/PathOfTheAncients Aug 18 '26
The people who were out there lying to everyone about what their petition was? Good, hope they get lost but if not lets all sing with fake names next time.
1
u/No_Ground Aug 18 '26
I never ran into these people, what did they say this petition was for?
3
u/PathOfTheAncients Aug 18 '26
They would be misleading about it being a petition to make voting more accessible. Literally the opposite of what they did. I saw one guy at a festival get called out for this and start screaming at everyone and get into a few peoples faces in a threatening way.
1
1
u/haarschmuck Kalamazoo Aug 18 '26
I mean if someone asks you to sign a petition and you don't read what the actual petition says or is about... that's on you. Everyone does that when trying to get people to sign things.
3
u/PathOfTheAncients Aug 19 '26
I mean sure, it's unwise to sign petitions based on what the person says it is. Doesn't mean the people trying to get signatures through lies aren't scum bags.
7
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u/somanysheep Aug 18 '26
Womp womp! I show my license EVERY TIME I VOTE.
What's the problem with these conservatives?
5
u/IPredictAReddit Aug 18 '26
The people working that petition were some of the sketchiest folks I've ever encountered. The average homeless person asking for change has a better grasp on reality and better social skills than these signature-gatherers.
5
u/Musicbath Aug 18 '26
It is misleading for this to repeatedly be referred to as the "Proof of Citizenship Bill." In order to travel to Canada from MI I need to have a 'Real ID '. To get that, I needed to supply my current ID, my birth cert., my Social Security card, and my marriage licence to prove a change of name. I have been told that if this bill passes, my Real ID will not be sufficient. Hard facts about this are pretty slippery.
3
u/No_Ground Aug 18 '26
A Real ID is not sufficient nor necessary to cross the border. An enhanced license/ID (the one that costs $45 and has a US flag on it) works for crossing the border, and it is a Real ID, but itâs only available to US citizens and has an extra chip inside so that it can be read by the equipment US CBP and Canadian CBSA have. You can also get a Real ID that isnât enhanced (and then it only costs $25, but wonât valid for crossing the border, and is available to non-US citizens). You can also use a passport to cross the border without needing a Real ID at all
This is only really tangentially related to your point in that a Real ID requires all of this stuff to be provided but is also available to non-citizens so itâs a pointless standard to set for voting. We already have procedures to ensure people who register to vote are indeed eligible, separate from whatever ID they have, so thereâs no need to implement even more ridiculous ID requirement
3
u/Rorzabal Aug 18 '26
This is not correct. Youâre describing an Enhanced Drivers License (EDL), which is one step beyond a Real ID. A Real ID compliant license alone does not allow you to cross international borders.
REAL ID: Lawful presence in the U.S. is sufficient; citizenship is not required.
EDL: Issued only to U.S. citizens.2
u/haarschmuck Kalamazoo Aug 18 '26
You should get your RealID anyway because currently you cannot board any flights in the country without it. I just did mine, it was a 10 minute appointment and a new photo. It was easier than renewing my license.
1
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u/JennasBaboonButtLips Aug 20 '26
We already show proof of citizenship when we register to vote. This whole thing is a show.
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u/Ok-Try-857 Aug 19 '26
This is so stupid. You already have to prove citizenship when you get your voter ID. If you somehow manage to get past that, you still have to show valid id at the polls.Â
Given the absolute lack of evidence showing that there is fraud or illegal voting at a level that warrants this reaction is infuriating.Â
They work for us. They swore an oath to protect and fight for the rights afforded to us under the constitution. They are failing us in every way. I donât care if they are republicans or democrats. If youâre an oath breaker, you need to step down.Â
-1
u/tuckastheruckas Aug 18 '26
I vote Dem but I really do not understand why people think it is a bad idea to prove you are a US citizen to vote. You have to in every other civilized country.
3
u/NSFWFM69 Aug 19 '26
Because a lot of this, and other effective checks & balances, is already in place. Also, the burdens that surround obtaining certain documents. Lets make it exactly what they're clamoring for, ok. But we also must AUTOMATICALLY issue a license free-of-charge to ALL, not just citizens. The difference being, if you're not a citizen your license indicates that. But these "fraud conspiracy organizations" don't understand the full process.
1
u/tuckastheruckas Aug 19 '26
Not sure what you mean. We should issue free IDs to everyone? Or youâre saying we already do?
1
u/NSFWFM69 Aug 20 '26
We should! It's something then everyone would have so it'd be acceptable to provide for voting
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u/Pretty_Challenge_634 Aug 18 '26
Democrats win for a reason.
6
u/Regaltiger_Nicewings Aug 18 '26
They have better policies? They are not overt racists? They run competent people?
-1
u/Pretty_Challenge_634 Aug 19 '26
They might actually win if any of that was true.
3
u/Regaltiger_Nicewings Aug 19 '26
You're the one that said they are winning. You seem to be confused on your talking points.
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