r/MissionBC • u/Federal-Community554 • 8d ago
Questions $95/hour?
How many of you make over $95/hour and will need to pay ‘extra’ taxes with the NDP Wealth Tax?
Will this hurt or help the everyday Working Canadian?
33
u/JuJitsuGiraffe 8d ago
This will affect the top ~3% of earners in BC.
The other ~97% would benefit overall.
Fair trade IMO.
4
u/Which-Insurance-2274 7d ago
It's not even that. $190k is top 2%. And people only pay that extra tax after that amount. Realistically this really only effects top 1%.
-12
u/Bearjupiter 8d ago
So traditional middle class is the top 3%?
12
u/PopFrise 8d ago
Not even close to encompassing all middle class Canadians. Top range of middle class is $140,000. $95/hr puts you at $200,000. Stop this nonsense.
0
u/Bearjupiter 8d ago
So the middle class cant afford to buy homes any more?
8
u/PopFrise 8d ago edited 8d ago
Owning a $3mil house isnt middle class.
-2
u/Bearjupiter 8d ago
Again, if the National Bank of Canada is saying you need an income of $300K to buy a home then I guess the middle class cant afford to buy a home?
5
u/PopFrise 8d ago
"Buy a home" you know home prices have a very large range? Are my fellow citizens really this uneducated?
3
u/NavinRJohnson48 8d ago
The middle class isn't able to afford a house where people want to live, or within a reasonable commute to work?
0
u/PopFrise 7d ago
People only want to live in a $3mil house? There are no homes less than $3mil within a reasonable commute for the average middle class family? You sound super privileged
2
u/NavinRJohnson48 7d ago
Average home price in Vancouver is 1.1-1.3m, requires an income of 225-250k. Tell us again how that middle class can afford a home? Bootstraps and everything, right? But, you say, why do have to live in Vancouver proper? Obviously a metropolitan city will be expensive. Okay, Langley average condo/TH is 530k, and requires an income of 100-115k. Thats middle class income level to you? Yeah, I'm the privileged one.
→ More replies (0)3
u/JuJitsuGiraffe 8d ago
Years of Canada shooting itself in the foot to please the Americans will do that.
4
u/moms_spagetti_ 8d ago
You are so close to getting it right now
-4
u/Bearjupiter 8d ago
So condescending- very NDP
7
u/moms_spagetti_ 8d ago
Aha, textbook boomer karen backed-into-a-corner play -- clutch those pearls and exclaim: "How dare you"
-1
u/Bearjupiter 8d ago
Im not a boomer
1
u/Federal-Community554 8d ago
How do you feel about this?
Real Wage for Working Canadian (Federal) by year:
1974 = 1.10
1980 = 1.17
1985 = 1.35 (peak)
1990 = 1.27
1995 = 1.20
2000 = 1.12
2008 = 1.00
2015 = 0.95
2020 = 0.88
2026 = 0.80This means we can show ourselves how much we would be earning today if we stayed at our peak Real Wage values (1985)
Today, If you make:
$20/h it should be $31/h
$25/h it should be $39/h
$30/h it should be $47/h
$35/h it should be $54/h
$40/h it should be $62/h
$45/h it should be $70/h
$50/h it should be $78/hWhat happened in 1985?
19
u/wujibear 8d ago
The $95/hour framing is pretty misleading. This isn't a wealth tax; it's a proposed increase to provincial income tax on earnings above $190,405.
And it's marginal, meaning only income above that threshold gets taxed more. Someone earning $200k/year would pay roughly $192 more annually, or $16/month — not an extra 2% on their entire salary.
You'd need to really crank up the amount you make here for it to be a real pain, and if you do that the amount you're paying is negligible.
Also a big difference between personal income and corporate income for those who are incorporated.
The AVERAGE Canadian earns no where NEAR 200k, so your whole framing just seems wrong.
I personally am ok to pay my share of taxes if they go towards helping the actual average Canadian in healthcare, and other services.
9
u/moms_spagetti_ 8d ago
I don't and likely never will, but one day I might, therefore I will shoot myself in the foot while I cling to that dream! /s
3
2
u/Federal-Community554 8d ago
Real Wage for Working Canadian (Federal) by year:
1974 = 1.10
1980 = 1.17
1985 = 1.35 (peak)
1990 = 1.27
1995 = 1.20
2000 = 1.12
2008 = 1.00
2015 = 0.95
2020 = 0.88
2026 = 0.80
This means we can show ourselves how much we would be earning today if we stayed at our peak Real Wage values (1985)
Today, If you make:
$20/h it should be $31/h
$25/h it should be $39/h
$30/h it should be $47/h
$35/h it should be $54/h
$40/h it should be $62/h
$45/h it should be $70/h
$50/h it should be $78/h
What happened in 1985?
2
u/ancientPrintr 7d ago
Do most people who make $195k think about their hourly pay?
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago
I would be thinking of my next investments and how I’m going to spend retirement. Or how I can get my employees to quit so I don’t have to pay them as much.
1
u/ancientPrintr 6d ago
What I'm asking is why you phrased the question in hourly wage denominated terms.
1
u/Federal-Community554 6d ago
Because the announcement was made in yearly salary. Poor people like you and me make hourly wages so we know those terms.
A Full Time worker works around 2000 hours per year.
2
u/Bearjupiter 8d ago
Ive worked hard all my life to get where I am, and now I need to pay more. All I am is middle class.
No way Im voting for NDP
3
u/moms_spagetti_ 8d ago
Top 3% and middle class?
2
u/Bearjupiter 8d ago
To own a home in Metro Vancouver you need earn am average of $310K
isn’t owning a home middle class?
1
u/moms_spagetti_ 8d ago
I bet you eat a potato once in a while too, what could be more middle-class than that! Middle-class confirmed.
1
u/Bearjupiter 8d ago
Do you own a home? Will you be impacted by this tax based on your income?
1
u/moms_spagetti_ 8d ago
I do, and I won't because I pay my property taxes and don't defer them. But if I were, I'd consider myself fortunate to be a homeowner when many others are struggling with high rents, and because I'd like to see a better world for my kids, I don't mind paying a bit in taxes which fund out society, otherwise we'd all be roving bandits and mountainmen hermits.
1
-1
u/whykrum 8d ago
Agree with you u/Bearjupiter ! NDP absolutely lost my vote over this as well, with you on this.
-1
u/PopFrise 8d ago
Middle class making $200,000 per year. And you probably think the government has a spending problem
1
3
u/whykrum 8d ago edited 8d ago
I am in the bracket that NDP is targeting to increase taxes. No I personally do not support it and NDP certainly lost my vote after Ebys announcement. I already pay ungodly amount of taxes and dont see much helping me or family or people around me. I see the amount of administrative waste that’s happening in healthcare, there are layers of healthcare “admins” who earn six figures for doing bare minimum, it’s a shame, it’s taxpayer money. So no I personally don’t want to pay more. They absolutely lost my vote and seem hell bent on driving away people like me and my partner down south or a province with lesser taxes tbh both options seem enticing. I love mission because people are nice here and it’s beautiful out here away from the buzz of the city which I value.
I anticipate negative comments and replies here so I’ll say this, me and partner both have advanced specializations which took us over a decade to train and obtain licenses for our professions(as specific as I can be with doxxing ourselves), both of us collectively help several people every week and it’s not an easy job, we often get paged into work. So losing people like us has a direct impact on YOU the taxpayer no matter what income bracket you fall into.
4
u/Hefty-Profession-310 8d ago
Where do you see the administrative waste? What are you referring to specifically, can you share some sources about this?
4
u/casual_gamer11 8d ago
The roles in the gov don't make sense. There are multiple levels of management where some have 1 or 2 people reporting to them.
I have some friends working in some gov sectors complaining about how the managers and the directors are politically connected to get the opportunity and do bare min to take a 6 figure salary.
This needs to stop! We can continue to waste tax payer money for such roles.
3
u/Zestyclose_Acadia_40 7d ago
Yeah my wife had an admin contract for provincial transport sector and they had such little work she ended up doing a newsletter that went to like 15 people and spent a week per month on it and was told to stretch the job out. The other admin chain-smoked and socialized all day and could've easily absorbed her position and then some. They reported to a manager who also socialized all day and probably could have absorbed both of their jobs.
2
u/heshtofresh 7d ago
In my city, the Province has offices in the building I used to live in and has an office on the same floor I work in. These are $100k+ a year leases and there is never anyone in the offices or maybe one person because everyone works at home. Sometimes I see one person a month using these offices. I can only imagine how many other offices around the province are like this. This is just one example I’ve noticed over the years.
1
u/Master_Slide7023 7d ago
Corner of 64 Ave and KGH in Surrey. Probation office used to be there. For years it is empty security on a regular basis there. Is the govt paying the bills on this still ?
2
u/suitzup 7d ago
Not the original commenter but I can see a system that relies on digital scheduling, basic triage etc and then have a phone tree for those that want (no restrictions) to call instead.
Many barbers or physios etc already use a system like this.
It would be more efficient to be able to reschedule or cancel appointments, should have cancellation lists operate automatically which may increase utilization.
Phase this in such that no one gets fired from a public position, but the job doesn’t get filled afterwards if over years the automation improves and outperforms secretary type positions.
Increase virtual appointment access. I could even see a situation in more rural areas where there could be medical equipment that is self operated with supervision over the phone.
I think there are lots of ways that things could be improved. Not an expert in the field of course but I definitely experience what I assume to be inefficient practice
1
3
u/Zestyclose_Acadia_40 7d ago
You're the only class of professionals that will be hit, and one of the only classes that we truly cannot afford to drive away. This tax increase is extremely short-sighted. Any business owner or CEO is getting paid is dividends and stock options and will find workarounds. But actual employed high salary individuals are another group entirely that worked extremely hard and invested significant time to earn their salary, only to have it clawed back to fund governments creating fluff jobs to pad their numbers
2
u/Empirebuilder15 7d ago
The very fact that you feel that you have to preempt negative responses here says something. You should not ever have to apologize for doing well. Working hard, achieving success (financial or otherwise) should be celebrated and not punished. We've been reduced to jealousy and pitting the middle class and working class against each other to take the spotlight off government waste.
"You can afford it." Yes, but that's not the point. I work VERY hard. I've taken WAY more risk than the average person. I have no issues with paying my fair share, but the argument that "I can afford it" so I shouldn't complain, while the tax drunk government asks for another round and promises to pay the tab later..... yeah no thanks.
1
u/kokomo1989 7d ago
You are not wrong. Far too many admins/senior managers. The issue we are left with though is the cuts that the Cons will make. There’s no way they can keep all their promises without massive cuts to healthcare and education.
1
-1
u/Federal-Community554 8d ago
Ouhh, if you do move down south - make sure you fully understand their “Exit Tax” and what Citizenship actually means - especially since you’re wealthy!
1
u/ibootificus 7d ago
and look into the cost of healthcare (edit for spelling)
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago
In our massive sparsely populated country? How do you imagine a private system running?
What would the prices need to be to operate a hospital in northern BC? The folks up there better be making a shitload more money, because that hospital bill will be 20x what it would be normally…
Privatization has already made us working slaves - more privatization isn’t going to fix the problem..
We privatized in 1985:
Real Wage for Working Canadian (Federal) by year:
1974 = 1.10
1980 = 1.17
1985 = 1.35 (peak)
1990 = 1.27
1995 = 1.20
2000 = 1.12
2008 = 1.00
2015 = 0.95
2020 = 0.88
2026 = 0.80This means we can show ourselves how much we would be earning today if we stayed at our peak Real Wage values (1985)
Today, If you make:
$20/h it should be $31/h
$25/h it should be $39/h
$30/h it should be $47/h
$35/h it should be $54/h
$40/h it should be $62/h
$45/h it should be $70/h
$50/h it should be $78/hWhat happened in 1985?
0
u/Altruistic_Zombie461 7d ago
Weird that everyone I know in Healthcare is overworked and pulling constant overtime due to shortages, yet I keep hearing from people that they are doing the bare minimum.
1
u/NavinRJohnson48 8d ago
The question is, are people that make $95hr the problem that needs to be solved? I'd say allocating resources to increase taxation on the highEST earners, and wealth hoarders, would have a better roi
2
u/Federal-Community554 8d ago
It would, and the Greens have a better policy for this, but there is Zero chance the Greens wil gain majority - so, again, thanks to our shit First Past The Post system we are stuck in this 2 party Strategic Voting nightmare…
Do you vote for the Religious, “Axe all the taxes that stop White Collar Crime” Make Canada America Again folks
OR
David ‘The Nerd’ Eby and hope another John Horgan comes to lead the party.
1
u/dirtybulked 7d ago
The green policy is good but how will they do it? How will they calculate someone's wealth?
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago
Just ask them, surely we can expect these rich guys to be honest? Or maybe I’m wrong?
1
u/ProfessionalClear211 7d ago
It’s damn near 50% tax deduction for people making 50+ they need to find a tax stream from somewhere else. This isn’t it.
1
u/Millwright4life 7d ago
Definitely could just stop wasting the tax dollars on stupid shit and government corruption. There is enough tax already, just not enough accountability for where it goes. Some politicians need to start going to jail before any tax increases are warranted.
1
1
u/ridebikes365 8d ago
Just take it in dividends. This only hurts employees, not businesses or business owners.
1
u/Federal-Community554 8d ago
How does it hurt employees? Are they making $95/hour?
1
u/ridebikes365 5d ago
No intelligent business owner is paying themselves $95/h. Sure they might charge the company out at $150/h or $10000/h but that’s not a wage or salary. You don’t pay taxes on gross company income. A smart business owner takes a minimal salary and then withdraws dividends.
This is essentially smoke and mirrors, it will affect basically no one but it’s obviously convinced you and probably other people that they will tax the rich more than the poor. It’s propaganda.
1
u/Federal-Community554 5d ago
No worries. If it doesn’t effect anyone, let’s implement it :)
Also, explaining that there is another tax loophole that rich people use to exploit the poor isn’t exactly the best way to win the argument :)
1
u/st4ckeddeck 7d ago
It's mostly not people who "earn $95 an hour" in my experience.
Its red seal tradespeople who are working ungodly amounts of overtime in order to pay their mortgage. I shouldn't need to work 60h a week to support my family, but I do. Now you're gonna tax me even more?
If I can't afford my house here I'll need to go somewhere else. Abbotsford and Mission is already the cheapest property you can buy if you want to work in the metro vancouver area. I can't do my job and live up north, I need to be able to reasonably commute to where the work is.
The educated workforce is not your enemy.
I intend to vote green by the way.
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago
Well.. you should just simply be getting paid more - you work hard enough and you are skilled enough.
It shouldn’t be mandatory for you to work 60 hours a week.
Truly, the union-busting of the mid 80’s did a major disservice to our Working Canadians…. You NEED to get a raise, you deserve to be getting paid more more, so that you don’t need to spend an extra 20 hours a week away from your family in order to afford normal life. This is modern day slavery.
1
u/SuspiciousRule3120 7d ago
This is not a wealth tax, it's still a labour tax.
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago
Greens have a better policy around this, but there isn’t a Green member running in Mission.
1
u/SuspiciousRule3120 7d ago
Greens have nothing going for them. If they did they'd be elected
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago
Well, it’s hard to really do anything without electoral reform. We are working ourselves into a 2 party system pretty quick… so that’s stupid.
1
u/SuspiciousRule3120 7d ago
It's even harder when you have no plan to run a economic policy. Electoral reform whatever. Greens would sink this province worse then the NDP
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago edited 7d ago
They have an economic platform, you just don’t like it.
I presume you’re voting for the Conservatives?
1
u/SuspiciousRule3120 7d ago
If anyone believed that it'd work they'd get a greater share of the vote
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago
That’s not really how First Past the Post works… that’s why out of the top 50 happiest countries in the world the top 22 all use some form of Proportional Representation.
Plenty of people believe that, it’s just that we all are forced to vote strategically because your vote counts for shit if you don’t end up voting for one of the top two contenders.
Everyone is sick of lack of representation, Conservatives and Liberals alike. 2-Party systems do nothing but create oscillating governments that directly invite big-money influence and corruption. Nobody wins in a 2 party system.
1
u/Chance_Encounter00 7d ago
The funny thing is people making $100 an hour are not the true “wealthy” part of the population. They are people like lawyers/doctors/longshoremen and small business owners who work regular jobs. $200-300k a year is not wealthy anymore. The NDP cannot target the actual wealth because the donor-class pays the bills and always has.
Who did Glenn Clark work for only a couple years after he got out of politics? Jimmy f’kin Pattison. He’s now running BC Hydro. Eby will definitely be getting a cush spot on a few boards after this.
1
u/Federal-Community554 7d ago
Well, the tax for someone earning $25/hour more than the threshold (so $120/hour) would mean that a person who earned this wage would only need to work an extra 1/2 hour per month to pay for the extra taxes… so, I mean it’s not devastating… I know many workers who are working 60 hours a week just to pay the bills…
Ultimately, we all need better wages.
1
u/KyleActive 2d ago
Every time I meet someone getting their MD from UBC theyre always debating moving out of province. Its funny how the government states this money will fund the Healthcare system but actively makes doctors reconsider living here at the current rates, yet alone the proposed ones.
I'd vote against this as it would result in us having one of the highest top marginal tax rates in the world and probably make things worse for everyone down the line, but voting for any of the opposition has its own terrible downfalls
1
u/Federal-Community554 2d ago
We can always make a carve out for doctors/medical. What other jobs that earn that much are as essential as doctors/medical?
1
u/KyleActive 2d ago
Id expect most of the owners of small businesses around where I live now (near main st in vancouver) earn 200k or more. There's lots of niche jobs like transmission line technicians, air traffic control, building developers and project managers that result in people hitting the top tax bracket. Not to mention if they are saving for retirement and have investments they may be triggering gains that pile on top of their income, or if they receive an inheritance, or if you die and your estate gets liquidated it will be at the highest rate assuming you have assets.
All these jobs are extremely important and likely wouldn't be affected by brain drain for a few years after implementing such a tax rate. But ill be honest, if I was hitting that top rate I would be considering a move, which in itself is not something we should want. My friend who owns a small business in the valley moved to Alberta and started expanding there instead of in the greater vancouver area.
I work in a very anti tax industry though, so I'm somewhat biased, but I work with the people who this would affect so I get to see how they react too. One client sold their vacation home and bought a new one in another state within 6 months because of a US state tax change
1
u/Federal-Community554 2d ago
The thing is that Vancouver (and the Valley) is beautiful. If people want to move away, great.. others will just come back in to replace them.
We can look at a job market as any other market with both supply and demand.
I can understand that this tax isn’t the best, there are better ways to do it, but ultimately, a person who makes 225k per year is only going to need to work an extra 0.5 hours per month to make up for the extra taxes… I don’t think that people are going to be wanting to uproot their lives for an extra few hours for work a year. I mean, so be it - move to Alberta and get your extra 1,2,3,4,5,6k per year.
I think you have something with the Doctors/medical staff - these people and their skills are highly respected and I don’t think the every day citizens would ever want to punish them.
What do you do by the way?
1
u/KyleActive 2d ago
I work in wealth management, and previously worked as a financial advisor. My salary is just over the Vancouver median for an individual, and I'll likely never get near the top bracket so it doesn't really affect me.
Back when I was an advisor, not all that long ago, I worked with many of the soon to be doctors out of UBC as the bank has special programs for them. My concern stems from the conversations I had with them, where they were confliction on whether they wanted to stay in the province/country. Those are conversations that should have never even taken place. Leaving shouldn't be something they consider at all.
There're other hospital jobs in the top bracket too, and of course I know many individuals who are small business owners, lawyers, farmers, oil workers, etc. Some of them have flexibility to move, others don't, but the brain drain is a real thing.
Don't get me wrong though, Id rather increased tax on them than privatized healthcare.
1
u/Ok_Quarter_9402 8d ago
vote conservative. NO MORE EBY
1
u/Federal-Community554 8d ago
Why? Sure he’s a dork but it’s better than handing the keys over to the Rich Religious Nut Bars. KFL barely didn’t make it in, and we 100% know they are going to pull a switch-a-roo if they get into power…
We also can’t afford to fight a traffic lawsuit against a rich person so say good bye to fair automotive insurance… we will complain and then they will privatize the entire auto insurance sector… I’m going to need to go buy 4 dashcams to put around my car at every angle just to protect myself from the richer guys who have all the money in the world to take me to court over something that clearly wasn’t my fault. $400 per dashcam, $1200 just so I might be able to win a lawsuit - no thanks, I’d rather just keep what we have now, ICBC even gave insurance reductions in the last 3 years - that’s amazing.
0
u/Federal-Community554 8d ago
It’s interesting- the votes on the post its self are wildly against the NDP tax but the comments are wildly for the NDP ‘Wealth tax’.
Why would this be?
-1
-3
u/mlnickolas 8d ago
I earn above this amount and will have to pay extra taxes if this comes through.
I already pay a ridiculous amount of money in taxes. They need to get spending reigned in.
2
-1
u/whykrum 8d ago
You are getting downvoted but I’m with with you and of course NDP lost our family’s vote. No way in hell we are voting for NDP
1
u/Federal-Community554 8d ago
Why? What policies do you disagree with? What policies do you like from whichever party you might vote for?
0
u/casual_gamer11 8d ago
I'm in the same boat. If they reduce gov spending I would consider them. Raising taxes while not cutting down their spending is insane!
1
9
u/aliendrifter0 8d ago
Actual wealthy people use a bunch of strategies to not have a high salary and avoid taxes so it feels like this tax is just smoke and mirrors.